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Posts posted by enigmatic

  1. 3 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

    Being 1-0 up after a minute on a full Wembley and not making a single shot until the rest of regular time is the definition of being taught a lesson.

    Let's just say that if you copy-pasted this game into club football, any EPL and CL game, with Mourinho in Southgate's place, every single media outlet would still be trashing him for parking the bus.

    The definition of being taught a lesson in attacking football is getting spanked, not Italy shooting from all angles until they earn an equaliser and then playing it safe (but ironically the two chances they did have in the last 53 minutes were the best open play chances all game, because more gaps at the back). They scored the same number of goals as us. And no, our shots weren't all in extra time, and Italy didn't look vulnerable once we added Grealish and a winger 

    Mourinho might get trashed all the time, but he's also won a **** ton of trophies, despite penalty shootout record that's nearly as bad as ours. Pretty sure Gareth wouldn't mind a Mourinho comparison...

  2. 47 minutes ago, Astafjevs said:

    Enigmatic has been a consistent embarrassment with his description of Italy's run. Just ignore it. You'd think we stumbled through the knockouts and won by luck. 

    What? I've said you were great in the opening rounds, I've said your tactics against Spain were perfectly justified before and after you won when even some of your own fans were less happy, I've said you did enough to deserve an equaliser our defence made your forwards work hard for, I filled my team of the tournament with Italian players, I just think it's total bollocks to act like Italy (and frankly any other nation) would never stoop to defending without the ball or pretend that only England had any luck. 

    Frankly, I think it's far more insulting to the Italian team to insinuate the only reason they equalised and England didn't carve them open was Gareth.

    You won a tournament by getting the big moments right. Well done. If we won the shootout all the people lining up to suggest Mancini and your forwards were clueless and cowardly bottlers would also be wrong.

  3. You're... not making any more sense. I said "England didn't lose because..." to rebut this forum's weird fondness for reframing the match (and tournament) as England losing by being taught a lesson in attacking football rather than the actual shootout finale to a team that hasn't conceded a second goal to anyone else in the last five years either, not because I'm obsessed by not losing or have any connection at all with what the England team think.

    Enjoy the 19th hole, sounds like you've been there a while :)


  4. 29 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:


    Cmon man, that's embarrassing.

    No, what's embarrassing is your insistence that two managers who took their teams from total failure to tournament finals are both too cowardly to succeed...

    (Interesting choice of manager for the graphic by the way. Not the man I'd be picking to make the "sitting on a lead never works" argument :lol:)



    9 minutes ago, akkm said:

    Yeah just proved the point there lol

    lol, you mean you went to all that effort to link bad grammar, pop psychology and a bunch of England players that have never met me and it was just a troll? And I thought I had too much time on my hands :D 


  5. 51 minutes ago, akkm said:

    obv thats interesting choice of words framing it as having 'lost' as opposed to WIN it. essentially a subconscious recognition of england's approach and even broader insight into england approach/mentality and also as to why pens are a historical issue. 

    Had you framed it as didn't win it would be more useful to have a bigger picture approach to being more of winning team/tournament team...southgate's cautious approach essentially was reactive throughout the tournament. instead of an attempt to win with a more proactive controlling possession to 'go and win it' with a more percentage game as opposed to to conceding possession/territory/ground to the opposition england should be trying to WIN by scoring more goals given such a fast start...you could argue by not front foot attempting to score more goals than italy they didn't WIN it therefore were left with situation where it went to penalties and lost it. obv very simplistic corollary is england didn't WIN it by not scoring more goals

    I mean, I'm not framing it as WIN it because we didn't win, and saying "we didn't not win it" is just terrible grammar. There's not much insight you can get into my psyche from that, never mind England players'.

    Same applies in reverse. Italy didn't win it by scoring more goals or having more shots across the tournament or by the semantics of winning/losing, they won it by missing one fewer penalty. Two games in a row actually, including the occasion they had considerably less possession and shots than their opponent.

    They deservedly got the applause for their stylish wins in the group stages, but they won the tournament by avoiding defeat and playing the percentages against strong teams, not by extra goals scored in early games or missing more shots from distance.

    It's pointless to pretend that there is something uniquely wrong with England's approach because it was the one the tournament winners used their last game. Which is a completely normal route to winning a tournament, and one which very nearly worked out for England instead of Italy. 

  6. Greenwood should be a lot more ready by then and I can't see Trent being left out unless his form's horrible, especially not given Gareth still likes wingbacks for big games. Joe Gomez and Ezri Konsa might have moved a long way ahead of Mings too.

    18 months is a long time in football though. Walker could lose a yard of his pace, Alli could look like a proper footballer again, Mount could be stuck on the bench at Chelsea and Stones could have slipped behind Laporte in the City pecking order, Barnes/Maddison could be lighting up the Premier League, and someone like Toney could come from nowhere

  7. 23 minutes ago, ArsenalFan7 said:

    I make it 127 attempts for Italy vs. 63 for England across the whole tournament, which is a pretty staggering difference between two finalists and I’d argue we have the better attacking players.

    And yet when it came to games and moments that were tight as opposed to bombarding weak teams it took a long time to score against in the group stages he did exactly the same as Gareth. I mean, he sat on 1-1 with a possession advantage against an a nervy England, anybody that thinks he (or most managers) wouldn't have relied on their strong defence more than attack if they'd scored in the second minute of a final against a good side is crackers

    And who gives a **** about the group stages? I mean, yes Italy were vibrant there unlike their other tournament wins, but surely we're not going back to "it's no accomplishment because we had a bad game against Scotland"? :lol:

    We didn't lose by scoring  fewer goals than Italy, we lost because we missed one more penalty.

  8. 31 minutes ago, Baptista_8 said:

    Did Italy not produce 6 on target and 9 off target? While we produced 1 on target and 4 off?

    And they had 62% possession, on top of that.

    Italy vs Spain and England vs Italy. Spot the difference....



    Italy weren't actually defending a lead for very long either.

    Either sitting back and giving up a lot of mostly non-threatening shots is perfectly sensible against a packed midfield (my view) in which case surely it's fine for Gareth to do the same, or Mancini isn't a good manager, he's a very lucky boy

  9. 7 hours ago, ArsenalFan7 said:

    Mancini is just so good, said it towards the start of the Euros but he’s in a league of his own compared to the other managers and that was the difference on the night. They handled the occasion greatly, the best teams produce those kind of cynical challenges in the important moments.

    Chiesa as well, what a player.

    Grateful for the occasion but more than anything disappointed by Southgate returning to his passive don’t lose mentality when there was plenty of opportunities to exploit, as great as it felt at the time, going up that early was probably our downfall with Southgate in charge. Cannot produce 6 shots in 120 minutes and then be angry at the Italians winning. Lot of what ifs and can’t help but think a better manager wins that for us, oh well.

    Mancini who produced 7 shots in 120 minutes in a semi final won on pens is "in a league of his own" and Gareth who produces 6 is too passive? Fine margins...

  10. 5 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

    That remark was meant in a way that it's disgusting to blatantly dive considering what happened.

    I said that it was obvious how players in that and Belgium-Russia game afterwards didn't want to fall easily considering what happened, but then they all started to diving again after a couple of days passed..

    Poulsen went full Neymar in the same game!

  11. Just now, skybluedave said:

    Yeah I know. But he played at left back. If you picking a team of tournament right back back he should have played that position. Seems odd other wise

    tbh teams of the tournament usually drag forwards all over the pitch to create space for lots of them: sticking someone in his natural position is relatively sensible

    If you want something genuinely weird, here's Whoscored's algorithm's attempt to pick the best players in the final. Maybe Southgate didn't pick enough fullbacks :D (and where is Chiesa?)



    Their team of the tournament is a bit less illogical, but Meunier is a weird call


  12. Here's mine, and some other people's from earlier in the tournament


    3 minutes ago, skybluedave said:

    Why's everyone shoehorning Maehle in as right back?

    Not many others stood out, and Maehle is right footed.


    Kroos is a hilarious choice, great player in his last ever tournament but played one knockout game and was invisible in it. If we're dishing out lifetime achievement awards, Modric was better. Can think of a pretty big reason not to select Pogba too...

  13. You're right, should have been four more goals

    Did think of Walker who was sound defensively, but he didn't do a lot going forward even when picked in his natural position; Trippier was just about in contention too and might even have got it for that assist if we'd held on. Coufal was one of his team's better players, and Di Lorenzo isn't getting it after being destroyed by Doku 

    Nearly mentioned Hojbjerg who had a cracking tournament considering he started by missing an important penalty, but I think he faded out the game against England. Havent mentioned many midfield names tbh: Rice, Barella, Busquets, and Koke were all a bit meh, Locatelli didn't play enough after catching the eye, Pogba threw it away.


  14. Probably time to bump this.


    Donnarumma gets the keeper spot. Had a couple of real horror moments he got away with, but he made the saves that won the tournament. Vaclik is on my bench for being quietly excellent and Olsen made some great saves too. Maybe it could have been Pickford if he'd taken that fifth penalty...

    Shaw edges out Spinazzola after a goal and four assists which is insane for a guy who was too defensive to get near the team until recently, though Spinazzola was very, very good to watch going forward

    Mahle gets right back, which is a bit of a cheat, but none of the players actually on the right stood out except for Dumfries, who was threatening going forward but unconvincing in defence. 

    The centre back pairing is tough. I'm going for Bonucci/Maguire who got important goals as well as clean sheets, but it really could have been Stones/Chiellini or even the winning Bonucci/Chiellini combo

    Jorginho takes a centre mid spot for being the fulcrum of the Italy midfield with Pedri whose passing was just ridiculous. Verratti's showing in the final means its not that close between him and Phillips in the end.

    Sterling and Chiesa are the wide forwards, as good as Damsgaard, Forsberg and Insigne were. Olmo had his moments too

    Schick wins out up front for scoring the goal of the tournament and four in total despite not having the same talent around him as Kane, Lukaku or Ronaldo or Benzema


  15. 4 minutes ago, Tikka Mezzala said:

    England's route to success is pretty clear as far as I can see: appoint Tony Pulis. Demand to play games on Tuesday evenings (especially in the winter), and move home games from Wembley to the Bet365 Stadium. We all know "continental" players canny handle such conditions.

    This is just a cunning plan to make the conditions ideally suited for Scotland to win, isn't it? ;)

  16. 1 minute ago, BadAss88 said:

    I was just mentioning it because it wasn't that big of a performance to get to the final for England..They had an easy group and were only able to score 2 goals, encountered a troubled Germany and then Ukraine and Denmark were they needed a light penalty to win the game, while playing 6 of the 7 games at home, they even played there best game away from Wembley..

    It was a completely normal performance against completely normal opponents to get to the final, something we haven't actually done before. On the other side of the draw Italy cruised past much weaker opponents in the group stage, then needed extra time against the mighty Austria, just about avoided throwing away a two goal lead against Belgium minus two of their best players and won a shootout after parking the bus against Spain. Did that make them the best team in the tournament? Yes, actually  

    For comparison purposes, in 2008 Peak Spain also beat Germany and ended up in a shootout with Italy. Their other opponents were Russia, Sweden and Greece, and they needed very late goals to beat the last two. In Euro 96 Germany also drew with Italy, narrowly beat Croatia and the Czech Republic, and I'm delighted our match against them now counts as a draw. And those are the similar ones, obviously Portugal had both weaker opponents and worse results, but the achievement still counts.

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