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Posts posted by enigmatic

  1. The newgen system fulfils multiple roles (ensure retiring players can be replaced with similar standard of players in the long term. make sure clubs with top setups get some good players, ensure relevant international teams have star players but not too many of them, create some players for scouts to find in obscure regions of the world, fill out squads of human managed teams with deadwood etc) so it uses a lot of different variables which have a lot of different side effects. In addition to Youth Rating and Game Importance, you've got the facilities and reputation of domestic clubs, facilities and reputation of foreign clubs that are likely to recruit from that nation, national reputation, whether that nation is selected in game or associated with transfer preferences of nations set in game etc. Some variables affect high end players more than low end ones

    The system isn't designed to work in isolation, but altogether. That's why Egypt has one of the highest Youth Ratings: the local clubs are insignificant on a global scale with terrible facilities, there aren't loads of Egytians living in France/UK/Holland/Belgium so you don't get masses of Egyptians coming through top French/UK/Dutch/Belgian academies. But Egypt still produces solid professional footballers and the odd Mo Salah. So the high youth rating ensures the few footballers Egypt produce are quite good, considering.

    IIRC last time I played with settings, maxing out Youth Rating for India whilst leaving Game Importance low meant that they produced slightly better players than before, but not very many and no world class ones

  2. On 08/10/2021 at 21:18, michaeltmurrayuk said:

    You should be able to do that from the team talk screen at the end of the match, if you select the individual option there should be at least one option similar to what you want.

    Whilst a couple of versions back there was an option to give a player a team talk as you subbed him off but it was removed for some reason.

    This is true, but unlike real life I'm not sure whether the "you deserved a breather" team talk has any effect on game time expectations (and expect not)

  3. 2 hours ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

    You can do that when you talk with players. You can talk about resting them for a game or play certain amount of minutes.

    i don’t think low rep competitions really have an effect on playing time though. I could be wrong.

    Sure, but you can only do it in advance, in a specified conversation format apparently programmed by someone with a background in combat simulation! And you're telling them they're tired and need a rest (which they often aren't) not talking about managing fitness through a busy period, or maybe the dead rubber against the team from Azerbaijan not being an unmissable Champions League glamour tie

    I'm talking about saying "the game's won, they were hacking you, you're too important not to have fit again in midweek" or even asking players their opinion, versus the player not reacting at all to a substitution but being furious two weeks later because it turns out he's managed a weighted average of 78.6% of minutes rather than the secretly desired level of 81%

    Low rep competitions apparently have an effect, although it's weighted towards higher priority ones. By competition rep rather than by the fact the opposition is in the fifth tier or you've already qualified for the knockouts afaik.


  4. 12 hours ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

    Subbing a player at 70 minutes isn’t sending him a message that’s he’s a star player no matter his stamina levels. Risk is apart of the game. You decided not to risk his health but now you upset him in doing so. Part of your job is man management.

    Tbf actual man management of these situations involves things which aren't possible in FM, like telling a player he's been substituted to keep him fit for the midweek game, or asking the player why on earth they'd think not playing in the first round of a cup or when half fit against weak opposition meant they weren't considered the star the team was built around...

  5. 2 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

    Considering they were (lower) mid-table the year before, they would have been fine with the next season's expectations of being mid-table again. They were seen as a mid-table team. In Johnny Ace's case, they're seen as a relegation candidate, so telling the team that they can really kick on next season, after finishing 7th, is far too ambitious.

    IMO, I don't see the issue with the AI logic in this case. The issue for me is rather the ambiguity of what it is you're trying to say to the team. The issue is that the game reduces the entire talk down to a single (in most cases, short) sentence. I understand that it's better than having an essay to read though. There should be some middle ground, like grouping the talks more clearly to indicate you're trying to be more ambitious or easing the pressure/expectation etc, perhaps? Or the responses should be a bit more detailed to explain that, while you over-achieved, it shouldn't be an expectation to finish 7th (or even kick on from there) because the squad isn't good enough.

    I don't like vagueness in the game, where there shouldn't be. Not in meetings like this - it should be clear to you what it is you're saying to the team and the team should be clear in their reply. It's the same with some promises - it's not clear what you're promising or what's needed to fulfill some promises.


    I think the main bit that irritates me about this chat is it seems to be entirely based on media prediction and ignores the surrounding context. Follow the media prediction (even if you think it's stupid) and your team will be overjoyed, even if it's basically telling them they're going down after they easily avoided the drop the season before. Tell the team they should be aiming a bit higher than the media prediction (because they finished a lot higher last season, or because that's what the board actually expect of you, or because the difference between you and the stronger teams really isn't that big anyway) like many managers do and it's pretty much guaranteed that they'll be upset. Think like someone who knows how the game logic works and it's easy. Think like a manager and it'll backfire...

    And yeah, agree on promises too (especially since there's no followup like IRL to say "I was going to give youth a chance, but since you senior players are playing so well..." or "sure these new signings might not be bigger names than the rest of the squad, but they fix our weaknesses which is what I was looking to do")

  6. 2 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

    I understand the logic of the players here. You're a weak team - relegation favourites. You overachieved that season, but you're still that same weak team. Going into the next season (assuming no changes), you're still going to be expected to fight against relegation, surely?

    When Leicester won the league, they weren't expected to even get close. The year before, they finished 14th. The year after the win, they finished 12th. When they won the league and they had an end of season meeting, would the manager have said "well done boys, let's do it again", after being 5000-1 to win it in the first place?

    I don't know if you recall, but Ranieri played down their chances every opportunity he had. He tried keeping the pressure off the squad and the focus only on the next match, not where they are in the league table.

    These things are about managing expectations and controlling the pressure and motivation of the squad. You, as the manager, may well expect to overachieve again next season and that is perfectly fine. Personally, I wouldn't convey that to the team though. How did you overachieve this season? By being underdogs and with that, there's very little expectation and pressure. As you score points, the motivation and morale increases a lot as well, because you're over-achieving so much. Do that again next season. As you have a weaker squad, keep the expectations and pressure on them low. You know that by doing it this season, you over-achieved, so you could likely do it again if you follow the same routine.

    There's nothing wrong with having ambition, but you need to remember that the players will know their squad isn't as strong as most of the other teams. They'll be aware of the media etc marking them out as relegation candidates. You know that you can extract more out of them and you know how to do it as well, so like I said, just do that again

    Think there's a happy medium FM hasn't found. I don't imagine Ranieri demanded a followup title challenge, but also can't imagine Ranieri's title winning squad saying "no boss, that's unreasonable, we're not strong enough" if he said they can finish mid table next season and still being upset if he downgraded expectations to steering clear of a relegation battle

  7. On 24/09/2021 at 01:23, Outsider23 said:

    I've started a new save. I'm managing Dinamo Dresden in the 3rd Liga and I've managed to take them to the second round of the DFB Pokal where we will face Wolfsburg. Anyway, in the pre match press conference I was asked about my relationship with Wolfsburg's manager, Oliver Glasner. I gave what I believed to be a truthful answer, that I didn't know him, but that I respected him. That didn't go over too well and the journalist who asked the question basically accused me of lying and angrily demanded, in the name of the public, that I tell the truth about my relationship with Glasner. I was stunned, but I didn't know what to do other than say that actually we are good friends even though I've never interacted with the man at all. This answer was accepted, although the local journalists still all hate me.

    This, to me, highlights one of the weaknesses of this game. There is this utterly bizarre system of dialogue woven throughout the experience that can only really be learned by trial and error. It doesn't matter that "I don't know him" is a factually true statement, it counts as an evasive response because it is the neutral option. Pretending to be good friends with someone you've never met is a weird anti social thing to do in real life, but I guess in this game it has to be the default option.

    The "logic" such that it is, is that "I don't know him...." is a neutral response, and journalists are sometimes coded to say "the public will expect to hear a proper answer..." and repeat a question in return to neutral responses.

    This makes a little bit of sense when a player tries to avoid talking about transfers or chances of winning but obviously no sense with this particular q&a

  8. I do consider this a bug though.

    Should lose the unhappiness, get a statement along the lines of "looking forward to his new contract coming into effect". Any further morale boost other than losing the unhappiness might have to wait until the day it comes into effect, but a player shouldn't still be unhappy about money they know is coming (especially since the binding agreement means you can't even cheer them up by offering it to them earlier)

  9. They're not real people, so they don't remember what they wanted a few weeks ago :)

    Multiple clubs competing for a signing is one (realistic) major reason why salary expectations can be inflated which sounds like it was the case earlier, and still not having a club well after the start of the season is one realistic reason why they drop, but they can also vary hugely according to all sorts of quirks like the date your reputation changes and (I believe) the size of your total wage budget.

  10. Suspect some of the expenses are proportional to how much money you have in the bank to balance things out a bit. Custom divisions aren't going to have as many checks and balances on them as the built in ones either.



    Worst example of a board handling expenses was when they gave me an 8 million combined wage / transfer budget for the Bundesliga, despite having me put twice as much in the bank with my promotion season

    Thought their announcement of a new stadium at the end of the season (after I'd added another £50m to their coffers) explained the ridiculously tight budget. Then they paid themselves 25m in dividends...

  11. 22 hours ago, metallimuse said:

    What made Peru so much fun?
    I’ve been playing through South America for the first time and done Argentina, Brazil and Chile so far and thought I wouldn’t bother with Peru now as I’ve got all my badges and won Sudamerica so thought Peru might be a step back but if you recommend venturing back to it I might give it a go.

    Peru at the time the opening and closing stage tournaments but also a summer tournament where you played half the teams in the league (randomly selected) which came with its own trophy (instead of a cup). Think the format's changed again since though.

    Also just an interesting mix of tactical styles from opponents, sizes of club, relatively low level but not rubbish players, well suited to youth development, and a football word that's pretty isolated from the rest of the world (generally it's Saudi clubs hunting your best players, not European ones).

    Libertadores/Sudamericana is more of a challenge as a proper underdog too

  12. 1 hour ago, santy001 said:

    My main consideration is, how do you mitigate under-valued players by your coaches/scouts? Along with this, how would you identify players more likely to excel (high professionalism, high ambition, high consistency, high important matches) for whom the attributes don't reflect? 

    I think the main thing is when you're offering that many trials, you get enough 5* potentials with likely great personalities for it not to matter about missing out on the player the coaches rate as 3* potential who would actually have been a really good fit. At a top division club you've usually got at least one coach or assman whose judging abilities are as good as most of your scouts anyway, and he can be the one that rates all the triallists

    When I take on this many trials (usually released players at small clubs and teenagers at large ones, and I rarely ever sign them) I don't call it "hardcore" so much as "obsessive compulsive" :D 

  13. Germany is good for easy progression: unlimited loans, plenty of money, and shortish seasons with straightforward promotion routes whilst being satisfying because you meet big name teams on the way and sign some really good players. 


    Would have really enjoyed the Peruvian league if it wasn't (FM19) so badly bugged. Interesting mix of clubs and tactics, multiple ways to win a trophy, and the level made you big underdogs in most games in the (still very winnable) Libertadores which is much more fun than the moneybags Champions League.

  14. 2 hours ago, laurentius82 said:

    VNS/VNN to prem on FM takes most often 5 seasons (standard game without added restrictions). You sometimes have to spend 2 seasons in the Championship, so maybe 6. Never more than that.  In order to have a more challenging game with just the right level of difficulty, may I recommend the "Many Steves Challenge", where you also start in the VNS/VNN but are only allowed to have peole named Steve at your club 😉


    I actually might try this or a similarly daft version simply because my issue with this particular challenge isn't winning divisions with under strength teams, but the amount of time I take doing it, and removing hundreds of players to scout and the temptation to micromanage an academy might help.

  15. Interesting to see the taper kicks in below positional familiarity 14 which is where I've generally noticed it playing around with editors.

    That said, the differences between defender and striker are pretty extreme in terms of weightings.  If you attempt a more typical retraining (AML to ML) the gaps will be much smaller, as the weightings are quite similar. So your CA130 AML might be a CA133 M/AML. Is that worth worrying about? Probably not.

    Generally if you're retraining a player it's because they'll be good in a similar position, not because their skillset is completely unsuited to any of the positions they currently play. The theoretical loopholes got closed a while back.


    34 minutes ago, xavinwonderland said:

    Restricting buying players able too play many positions is (I think) the optimal play past a certain stage as what you lose is flexibility and what you gain is better (more specialized) player. I said past a certain stage because after a few seasons it is very easy to have a very large squad depth with a B team as much as good as the A team so once you reach that stage the flexibility gained is useless pretty much as you will never use it. For example I have benfica save where I am in my 8th season, won the CL multiple times and my A team is probably playing 50% of the game at most given than I need to play my youngsters on top of my B team.

    Unless you've created a very specific challenge for yourself, there's no limit to the CA of a player you can buy, so yes, a M/AMRC/ST might have a CA 15 points higher than a ST with similar attributes, but that's definitely not a reason not to buy him (just might be a reason why the scout is more excited by him than you are when you look at his attributes). He won't sign for me or he costs too much are reasons not to buy, but that applies to some non-versatile CA140 players at least as much as some versatile CA155 players


  16. 21 hours ago, xavinwonderland said:

    Is that progressive? 

    This is the highest of the 2 after a certain threshold but let's say if you are natural striker / awkward defender you only count as a striker but once you reach accomplished you get the max penalty right away in terms of weighting or is the penalty progressive until you reach natural that would be the max penalty? 

    The breakpoint is competent, and above that I think it's progressive, or somewhat progressive. I think they've also somewhat improved the model so its common to get CA gains around the time you improve the positional ability (IMHO this, or it being attributes less relevant to the new position should nearly always be the case)

    Either way it's not much use min-maxing (beyond very basic stuff like "don't train a player up to accomplished in a position you'll rarely ever consider using him") because a player is less good when out of position, and that's worth at least as much as being 0.4 worse off in a handful of attributes.

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