enigmatic
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Posts posted by enigmatic
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16 minutes ago, greenz81 said:
These were replies to another person who was blaming the end-user. Don´t know why your directing this at me. Anyway you must obviously watch a crappy movies but sit there and think, na i'll change the story in my head? Do you buy a coffee and it tastes like crap, but instead of telling the server, but you convince yourself it tastes nice?
I think this is the world i live in... everyone lives in a fantasy!
There was a time you get what you paid for!
I'm "directing it at you" because I hit reply to your reply to my post, and so your name pops up above the quoted words you wrote. This is how forums work (perhaps it is Invision's fault!
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I don't direct the crappy movies I watch.
And if I did, I wouldn't blame the actors or CGI artists or even the scriptwriters for my choices of weapons and tactics and starting conditions making the action sequences predictable and boring.
I don't blame the coffee brand for it tasting like I refused to try adding milk either.
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2 hours ago, Kickballz said:
I know this and you know this, but is seems players will keep making threads like this, until they have can have a box to tick. I say, give them their hardcore mode and we can all move on.
The problem is that the box to tick comes with a whole lot more stuff to test is working (an ME and player transfer interactions that behave completely differently is a lot) and gets even more complaints..
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1 hour ago, greenz81 said:
Overpowered gegenpress - you should need the right players to play the system in the first place, which we don´t have to at present
Entirely your decision to play it despite thinking it's inappropriate for your team purely because its successful. Just don't whinge because the strategy you've picked solely because it's successful is successful..
(and tbh a gegenpress isn't actually as effective a press in game than a well drilled pressing team IRL, it's just a lot more efficient at winning in the ME than other strategies)
1 hour ago, greenz81 said:DoF handle transfers - because we all know the DOF is dumb in-game and sign you random players that dont fit your system or personality, so lack of AI intelligence punishes you
Ah, so you want a "challenge", but you also don't want to deal with anything as challenging (or realistic) as having to work with players that aren't good for your system and wont make the club a profit...
1 hour ago, greenz81 said:Don't sign high pace players - Why would anyone want slow players on their team unless they had amazing stats in other areas? Pace is always an advantage anyway, but against a low block or double marking a player in real life helps remove that advantage
I dunno, maybe they'd want the actual challenge of not doing things the easy way rather than the opportunity to brag about how then doing things the easy way had beaten "hard mode"...
1 hour ago, greenz81 said:Anyone that actually wanted to challenge themselves - had bought football manager because in previous editions without all the flashing lights and stuff, it was a challenge.
Lol, when was FM/CM hard? Its always been the game where you promote yourself from the lower divisions by a simple combination of aggressive tactics and better work in the transfer market than the AI (or do other stuff if you're more interested in tactical recreations or want a different challenge). That's why it sold so many copies.
1 hour ago, greenz81 said:If i was the fastest sprinter in my school and won every year, do you think i should slow down so its a challenge or go to a place where i could be challenged better? Thats the point of a new version of a game coming out every year, should be more challenging than the last.
If you were the best footballer at the school, I think you'd have learned a lot more trying to use your skill to do more challenging stuff like learning different positions and trying to create goals for your weaker teammates, rather than demanding your teammates play everything through you doing the same basic stepover and burst of speed that always gets you away from your man every time, then shouting at your teachers that it's their fault you scored all the goals for not making the other players better....
1 hour ago, greenz81 said:The point of a new version of a game coming out every year, should be more challenging than the last.
Nah, the point of a new version is to sell more copies. You don't do this by focusing your new features on people that claim to want a bigger challenge but have a long list of reasons why they won't do anything challenging.
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There are numerous ways of making the game harder for yourself already. Play a tactic appropriate to the team rather than an overpowered gegenpress, let the DoF handle transfers or just don't do any, don't sign high pace players etc.
Anyone that actually wanted to challenge themselves would already be doing this rather than humblebragging about how how SI needed to take action to stop their collection of gegenpressing wonderkids winning everything...
Ultimately if you can gegenpress your way to the Premier League with a bunch of 120ca pace merchants on standard mode, you're going to be able to do the same thing with a bunch of 135ca wonderkids with a 2 point attribute penalty in the match engine.
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The lower league clubs in FM don't always do what you want either. And you can't stop them, you can only "speak to the manager", or recall the player in the next transfer window.
But you can absolutely guarantee that Premier League clubs do have a discussion about how a player will be used before they sign off the loan, and if they use them completely differently their attitude will be more "that loan was a mistake, maybe we should reconsider sending players to that club/manager in future" than "at least they got game time, that's all we care about". That's what the loan playing time and positions represent, albeit in a slightly clunky manner. Finding clubs willing to offer good enough young players game time at subsidised rates is not the difficult bit.
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18 hours ago, Mars_Blackmon said:
They can start by improving the defensive play. One of the main reasons that we have more success is that 99% of us use attacking tactics. The AI? not so much. Also. They aren't exposing our attacking style that much.
The risk/reward factor is too heavily favored to the reward side.
Easier said than done. Hard enough to create something that takes hundreds of different variables and turns them into something that vaguely approximates a football match with generally plausible scorelines, without also having to create ingenious counter-attacking strategies to destroy sides that are really going for it (which the vast majority of matches the ME simulates is a side that is expected to equalise versus a side that would shut up shop rather than trying to score a second goal by exploiting spaces in behind fullbacks IRL). Probably the only way to do it would be to actually distinguish between human and AI opponents, which ironically, is the thing SI gets accused of doing by most of the complaints on here!
FM totally relies on stronger sides being more attacking to actually get believable results from the AI in the first place, because there isn't much difference in attributes (even less in meaningful attributes) between a title challenger and a mid-table side in most leagues...
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Tbf a club's regular starting captain being on the transfer list at the start of the game is the sort of thing researchers are supposed to avoid (by tweaking reputation, positional familiarity with how a manager uses them etc if necessary). It can be reported in the Data Issues forum
Trent getting transfer listed months later because of something that's happened in game is quite different (and sounds about as unlikely as... Henderson leaving to go to Saudi
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Tbh throw ins are just a convenient time to start a highlight from, and you get loads of them in a game (most of which don't end in highlights)
I actually switched to long throws because I get a lot more chances direct from rebounds from them than I ever did trying to create something against a set defence...
But if you're seeing specific unlikely patterns or marking lapses you can file bug reports
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10 hours ago, Kickballz said:
Correct, and it is completely outdated.
In most footballing nations, young players learn technical and tactical skills. When they develop physically it adds another dimension. The idea of a 15 year old having one position is not very realistic.
You can teach a 15 year old multiple positions. And you can loan a player without specifying a position (usually the club will ask for more money)
But if your Championship club has got a Premier League club's best young creative forward for very little money on the basis that he'll master the role they want to play in, they're probably not going to think you're developing him usefully by lumping long balls to his head or playing him in central midfield. They're not paying part of his wages so you can turn him into the sort of player that's useful to you...
Yes, the roles are too pedantic (the difference between a roaming playmaker and and advanced playmaker is entirely FM's invention, and there's far more difference between playing DM for a good team and a bad team that *isn't* reflected in game (FM24 does try to reflect style of play a little bit)
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I think the reason SI uses the mostly substandard current 3D model based faces is that they get variable hairstyles (which along with skin tone can be aligned with the ME) and expressions. There's more you can do with a model than a static image.
Personally I'm not convinced and would rather they used pre-generated photorealistic AI face images, which in theory could be generated in batches with a set of expressions, ages and hairstyles, and tagged according to ethnicity, skin tone, hairstyle etc so they got assigned to suitable newgens in the database.
But I suspect the switch to Unity and the theoretical possiblity of actually modelling the faces (licensing might hold them back) will mean they stick with bad 3d models...
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2 minutes ago, JimmysTheBestCop said:
3-5 season in prem you can be buying and selling over 500 million each every season or more if you put more effort into it. yes epl has like 5+ world class teams but if you play the finance game you always win.
After playing the finance game you have to actually dominate with tactics though, because no matter how rich you are, the league itself provides enough money for 5+ teams to fill their squads with players that are as good as anything you can buy.
CF smaller European leagues where one overseas sale of a wonderkid gives you access to players that are a class above the players anyone else will buy (even if they do make some money)
Bundesliga kind of sits in the middle where when you're good at making money, only Bayern can match you for buying elite players, but in the first couple of seasons the TV money buys you lots of Colombian and Serbian wonderkids (and you can probably start them whilst they're still developing)
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2 hours ago, Etebaer said:
If you want a great challenge start as no reputation manager with a low reputation club in financial trouble in whatever league you want that does get low tv revenues.
Regarding TV money...honestly the TV Money a german club gets is dwarfed by the Premer League income.
The PL gets roughly ~2,5 times the money and Spain roughly 1,5 times the money the Bundesliga earns from TV rights and this money will probably go down as the right holders work on a large deficit.
PS: TV rights abroad estimate 200 million for the Bundesliga while it is around 2+ billion for the Premier League if i am right.
Sure, but it's relatively fairly shared (down to the 2. Bundesliga if you're newly promoted) and more than everywhere else so buying your way to a team full of solid players that can challenge for the title isn't that difficult.
Premier League has way more money, but the players suck that up with higher wage expectations, and with more big sides to compete with and stronger mid table sides you tend to need very expensive world class players to compete
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Most set piece designs will have four big guys (who might be good finishers but might also be your centre backs) and a couple of creators on the edge of the area.
If you pick to have some defensive cover (IE up to three outfield players stay back), you run out of players to be labelled "box threats". But you can always change the routine by having one less big guy or cover player or player on the edge of the box
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Tbf, I can actually imagine Sol doing this and then expressing surprise at the backlash
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Attributes...
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the difficulty problem with Taunton winning the Premier League is that SI didn't cheese results so that Liverpool stayed in touch with them...
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Finishing has zero impact on headers, tap ins, rounding the keeper, shooting from distance etc.
It will affect players' ability to convert chances, but the difference between Finishing of 8 and 14 isn't as big as many people think, and lots of other things can also make a player with better finishing unreliable at converting chances, like low Composure, Balance, a poor weaker foot etc.
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22 minutes ago, forameuss said:
It's still massively weakened by the dataset itself. When it was first flavour of the month, it's getting certain fairly simple mathematical concepts spot on, and that has since drifted to returning stuff that is completely wrong. Also wouldn't be entirely surprised if for every person there is out there making the service more reliable, there will be at least a couple working to undermine it, either for nefarious purposes, or just because it's funny to them.
Not just people too! The more it's draws on the Internet as a data source, the more it hoovers up ******** blogspam written for SEO purposes by LLMs...
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28 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:
At the end of the day, it's a tool. and with tools and machines, it's always the person behind it, not the tools itself.
I agree with that much
It's just a tool that's supposed to give you tactical advice that's mostly wrong unless you're advising it isn't a particularly useful tool!
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1 minute ago, Mars_Blackmon said:
Nuggets don’t have bones
Neither do LLMs
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10 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:
Eat the meat, spit out the bones.
More just because you're getting nuggets doesn't mean there was ever any chicken involved
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tbh it looks like a pretty standard gegenpress you could find in these forums, or any third-party site (in downloadable form) with added nonsense related to your statistics (nothing wrong with mixed set piece delivery, but the average aggression rating of the team has nothing to do with whether it's the right option or not).
Suggesting the team lacks eccentricity and that you should use an offside trap in possession gives you an idea of how good the tactical insight actually is.
When SI's tooling gives crap recommendations like that I file bug reports, and whilst they don't always fix the bugs at least they actually can...
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3 hours ago, Kickballz said:
It really isn't machine learning btw. The AI in football manager doesn't come close to the concept of machine learning.
And nor does the OP's proposal of gathering data on which exploit formations overachieve the most, and which players are the best that can be bought within budget!
at the end of the day, the aim of FM is to simulate the football world, albeit a version of it you can participate in and probably overachieve in.
Okay, I could just about imagine Pep lining up with something weird and asymmetric off a Korean forum, but Klopp playing knap-352 and running a loan farm and Arteta signing Lukaku and playing TargetmanExploit feels less like the challenge of the real world, not more. Not sure whose tactics Frank Lampard is supposed to be copying either because it's not all about Pep and Klopp...
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20 hours ago, Four3Three said:
So it doesn't lower their ceiling at all then? Maybe it "morphs" their ceiling and they end up becoming a bit of a different player than before?
Their ceiling is the same as before
A different player than before is a good way of putting it.
In a lot of cases I'd rather have a player that can use their weaker foot a little bit more than a handful of attribute points, possibly not on attributes they actually use
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The AI really needs improving
in Football Manager General Discussion
Posted
I mean, obviously the match engine does need to be affected if the goal of a hard mode is to make it harder to win with a high pressing attacking team...
Testing twice as much stuff for a handful of people that claim to want a hard mode (but are all "why would you do this thing that makes the game hard" when you suggest alternatives) doesn't seem like a good use of resources compared with, say, working on the core match engine everybody uses or introducing a new feature. Especially since the likely outcome is "hard mode is too easy" or even "but hard mode is too hard" posts.