Fantasista10

Looks like a pretty faithful recreation, quite similar to how I would set it up ideally. My only concern would be a lack of penetration through the middle. How did your AP and DLF perform?

Some lovely pass maps! The makings of a very dominant tactic which I’m sure produces some great football. Glad this is working for you now, seems like finding the right roles and duties is always the key, and trying to minimise the Team Instructions. How does the Ramdeuter perform? That’s a role I’ve always struggled with in FM.

This is a few years old now and the tactics creator has changed, but for me the principles remain: I had a lot of success with this back then and always try and recreate it to some extent every time a new FM comes out! My thoughts on this system in FM23: 1. Like all recreations, you have to make compromises as you’ll never get it perform exactly the same in all phases of play. 2. Most important role to get right, and the most difficult would be the Mertens role. You would think a False 9 should do the trick but really it’s quite an underwhelming role in FM. Of course, you could opt for the easier option of attempting the Higuain role which could be a CF(A) or DLF(A). However, given your previous post about long balls, probably using a support duty striker who drops deep and link play would result in less long balls over the top? If using a support duty striker I would give Hamsik an Attack duty - he is the 3rd all time top scorer for Napoli after all (he actually broke Maradona’s record under Sarri to become the all time top scorer before Insigne and Mertens over took him) 3. A key facet of Sarri’s Napoli side was to overload the left flank with Insigne, Hamsik and Ghoulam constantly rotating position and Mertens often drifting over as well to combine. Having said that, I would avoid the use of focus play to create this in FM, as I feel it’s far better to try and create this kind of movement naturally by using roles and duties. Looking at your tactic, I don’t think you’re far off. Insigne could be an IF-S instead as he chipped in with a fair amount of goals, more than I would see an IW providing. I don’t agree with Sit Narrower for him though, he often received the ball out wide before combining with Hamsik or Mertens in the half space and allowing Ghoulam to overlap. If he starts wider, he opens up natural space for Hamsik to drive forward. Lastly, the Jorginho role. This has to be a playmaker role. He may not be the guy who gets the assist or a tonne of key passes, but he was the conductor of this team. Sarri’s coach on the pitch. I would use a DLP on either Support of Defend. I hope you can crack it because it has the potential to play some of the best football in the match engine!

Those are the same sort of tweaks I typically make, although I’m always nervous about going too negative. That’s a good result in the UCL though - 6 wins is impressive! I like the approach of changing your build up shape/approach depending on the opponent. It’s something I always like the idea of, but never seem to bother doing. Do you notice it help, or can it be more of a hindrance? That run and dribble from Antonio Silva btw…my word! Tempted to start a save with Braga, have some highly technical players and could be fun to take inspiration from this excellent thread with a youth heavy/DNA save whilst trying to end the dominance of Portgual’s Big 3!

You inspired me to go back to my Benfica save and try this out again. I tried and failed earlier in the year to get this very fluid 4-3-3 to work. Early performances and results are good. Anything you would change for tricky away games? Particularly in the Champions League. Some ideas I’ve had to make it a bit more solid in those matches is to drop the mentality to Balanced and make a couple tweaks to TIs but nothing drastic as I don’t want to change the philosophy too much.

That pass map is very nice! I’m amazed at how deep your CF is despite being on an Attack duty? I find it difficult to find the right balance between getting a striker to drop deep and be involved in play whilst still being a goal threat. In my experience a DLF(A) has been the best, not tried the CF(A) though!

Really enjoyed reading this, fantastic stuff - especially the positional play content. But kudos to you for switching it up and creating an equally exciting 4-2-4! As an Arsenal fan myself, and a long time admirer of Pep, I can't go stop myself from trying to emulate some form of JDP in FM. Even if I can't get it to work, I always find myself going back and trying again! Would be interested to see if you go back to the positional play tactic and what tweaks you would make. I also like the look of @Crazy_Ivan's tactic and have began testing it with Nice in Ligue 1 as a 'throwaway' save, Nicolas Pepe is a bit of a cheat code as the IW haha. Sorry to ask as I know you did not want to detract from the thread but I would also like to know what PIs were used? I typically try and keep them to a minimum but they can be really important when trying to create a specific style or pattern of play. For example, I like giving BPDs the 'Dribble More' instruction as it works really well to break lines (there's a great video from Rashidi/Bust The Net on this). I've found FM23 a little challenging in terms of finding the right balance between what works in the match engine whilst trying to create a realistic replication of an Arteta or Pep system for example, there are always compromises to be made but it's the wide players that are key - holding the width in build up and then attacking the box in the final third. The Winger role has been tweaked to hold width better but is rarely a threat in the box and the IW or IF are far too narrow in build up (they do go wide at times but not consistent enough).

Can’t wait for this part! My current tactic is very similar to yours in terms of the instructions (I tweaked the Tiki Taka preset very slightly) but my roles and duties are quite different. Namely, I have a Winger on Attack on one side. And use an IWB instead of a standard FB, as I attempted to recreate an Arteta/Pep system. One thing I’ve never been good at in FM, is understanding how much (or how little) changing a role or duty can impact an entire setup. I usually try and replicate a system, like I believe yours was based on Spain? But when things start to go wrong, I struggle to understand what I should change and the ramifications that those changes will have on the end goal.

The Odegaard role is definitely not a MEZ(A). The Attack duty makes this role a runner, rather than a creator or facilitator. He doesn’t make many penetrating runs in behind defences, instead he is likely to drop deep or ask for the ball into feet in between the lines - often in the right half space. A MEZ(S) is more accurate, or potentially an AP(A) which is more creative and aggressive than an AP(S). Although I don’t think he is a true playmaker either. The same goes for Xhaka. I don’t think Arsenal have any real playmakers, the ball doesn’t go through one player. He is, like you also said later on, more of a BBM with certain PIs. He often drops deeper than Odegaard to help build up play from the back, also drifting out wide to rotate with either Zinchenko, or Martinelli.

Away from my laptop, but off the top of my head: I trigger press on the goalkeeper and entire back line (including wingbacks). And show fullbacks/wingbacks to the touchline. For example, I show a right back onto his right foot. I do the same for MR/ML positions. The thought process behind this is to force them wide to the touchline where their options are limited. As I said before, this compliments the Trap Outside instruction. I then tackle hard on DMs, CMs and AMs. And then show AMR, AML and ST onto weak foot. I use the same set of OIs every game regardless of opponent.

You are also spot on in terms of White’s role. I think we could do with a new fullback role in FM to be honest. Not sure what you would call it but I’d like it to perform as follows: Tuck into a back three (perhaps simultaneously pushing the left sided centre back wider) when building out from the back, and once play has progressed up the pitch, and if the role had a support duty, he would be more conservative and tuck into midfield a bit like an IWB. Or if you could give him an Attack duty he would look to overlap. Basically what Kyle Walker and Ben White do IRL. They are neither IWBs or FB/WB in my opinion.

Not many PIs overall, I tried to keep it minimal where I could. The PIs were: DM(S) - Hold Position BBM(S) - Run Wide with Ball, Get Further Forward, Stay Wider IF(S) - Stay Wider The only other PI used is when I rotated my left back. My backup was not suited to the IWB role so I gave him FB(S) with Sit Narrower and Cut Inside with Ball.

You are absolutely right. Ben White is not a Wingback, I’d say he is a FB(S) with Sit Narrower. He does overlap at times, especially when we face a back 5 (to create a front 6). My reason for sticking with the WB(S) was purely because it got the best results, and I had a really good, fast player who could contribute a lot in the final third. My Wingback got the most assists in the team with 8. Tempo is something that I often changed in game, but I disagree that Arsenal play at a high tempo. I’d probably say its somewhere in between (Standard, if that’s possible in this FM). Again it was something that suited my players more, they lack good decision making to play at a Higher tempo. I think with the pressing it becomes more difficult. Arsenal don’t have a ‘one size fits all’ approach to pressing the opponent. In some games we engage them really high up, and disrupt the goalkeeper in build up, and other games we sit off and give them time on the ball. So I think this should come down to personal preference, or for the ultimate realism, change your pressing approach based on your opponent and their strengths/weaknesses. Let me know how you get on with this tactic, I hope it works as well for you as it did for me.

Just wanted to post an update on how I’ve been getting on with this system. My FM23 save is loosely inspired by the Graham Potter challenge. I’m taking a lower league Scandinavian side and trying to progress up the leagues before making the jump to one of Europe’s Top 5 leagues and eventually a Top 6 PL club. I settled on Moss FK in Norway’s 3rd tier. A historic club who had won the league and cup in the 80s, they were predicted to finish 9th. We really punched above our weight, winning the league by 10 points. The only defeat being a 1-0 loss after going down to 10 men and conceding from a direct free kick. The stats really portray our dominance. We scored the most, whilst being water tight at the back. Our defensive stability is most definitely a by product of the amount of Possession we have. I believe this to be crucial, as Guardiola and Arteta insist on keeping the ball to both create chances and limit opportunities for the opponent. In previous FMs, and also in other tests in FM23 I found that it was difficult to balance realism (staying true to recreation) and success in the game. Scoring goals was particularly difficult and it often resulted in stale possession. So I’m really pleased to have addressed that issue. Pitch Tilt is one of my favourite additions to this years Data Hub, and it again clearly portrays our final third dominance - another key aspect of this replication (when I last checked, Arsenal had the ‘highest’ pitch tilt this season, after Man City). I played the majority of the season with the below tactic, only making small adjustments when necessary in game (I mentioned these tweaks earlier in the thread with my Sporting CP test). Some observations: Despite good results, I became frustrated with the IW and MEZ taking up similar spaces. And after a great start, my IW began performing terribly. Solution: Change the role of the LCM to a BBM with added PIs (Stay Wider, Run Wide with the Ball, Get Forward). Did not seeing much difference between the MEZ on Attack or Support, and the Attack role getting inconsistent ratings and not being a huge threat. Solution: Decided to drop the right sided one to a Support role in the hope of being a bit more of a creator than scorer. My IWs often ended games with low ratings and not contributing much. Solution: Change this back to an IFs as I needed more of a goal threat and due to the success I had with Marcus Edwards at Sporting in this role, I had to give it another try. I ended up using a creative player in the IF role, with traits “Tries Killer Balls Often” and he often fed the DLF with through balls. A better, more direct player would perform closer to Martinelli I imagine. After getting more confident in my players abilities I made some tweaks and became a little more adventurous by increasing the mentality to Positive and adding Be More Expressive. The final version looks like this: I usually start away games on Balanced however, and see how the game plays out before deciding to go to Positive or leave things as they are. The top scorer in the team was the DLF with 17 in 22(2), followed by the Winger who got 11 (also penalty taker). Overall I am pleased with how the tactic has played out despite having players of low technical quality. I’m sure I will still tweak here and there but I think this is quite a close replication that also brings good results.

You have to use a Winger role if you’re going to get anything like Pep’s 2-3-5 in the final third. The Winger role has been tweaked this year to really hold its width in the final third. It’s not quite an accurate representation of how Pep’s wingers play, but if you use them on their ‘inverted’ foot with Traits to Cut Inside, it actually works quite well.

I agree you cannot get a ‘true’ replication which is anywhere close to real life - but that is the same for any tactic you try and emulate. FM, as great as it is, is just a game. Hopefully one day it will be even more realistic but until then we have to settle for getting something maybe 80% accurate (which works). I have been testing some more with Sporting Lisbon and it’s been going well. I originally started with a back 3 system which didn’t work out too well and since reverting to my usual 4-3-3 (where I try to replicate Arteta) results and performances have been really good. Here is the tactic I am running - but the important thing to know is the changes I constantly make in game, and for away games against big sides in particular. I start with the Tiki Taka preset, only adding Trap Outside which compliments my opposition instructions. However in game I can make the following changes to TIs: - Lower the Defensive Line one notch to ‘Higher’, adding ‘Drop off More’ and reducing pressing intensity to ‘More Often’ - this is for when I can see my press beaten too easily and/or I’m worried about a ball over the top. - Increase the Tempo and Passing distance, particularly if I am being pressed and I want to move the all quicker to avoid players dwelling on the ball and being caught out. The second variation is for away games, but I tend not to start with this, only moving to this tactic when either taking the lead or if I feel we are under pressure. It has less risk in general due to the Mentality but also incorporates the above in game changes I tend to make. I had two tough away games where this tactic was one of the strongest I’ve used so far. We drew 1-1 away to Benfica despite dominating, and managed to beat Chelsea 1-2 at Stamford Bridge in the UCL! Early signs it’s working well. Appreciate you may disagree with some of the roles but I have compromised a bit with what suits my players, and also what works in the ME. One last thing on the ME, I actually really like it. I have noticed subtle differences since the Beta, particularly how the wide roles are playing.

This is something I noticed in my beta save with Fiorentina. Playing Wide width meant to we lost possession a lot when attempting those ‘switches of play’. Playing on standard width, or fairly wide seems to work much better proving you instruct players to Stay Wide, like you said. I think this is an essential tweak you have to make game to game. I try to start with a Much Higher D-Line but drop this one notch and add Drop off More if I’m worried about the long ball. Watching games on Comprehensive highlights (and I’m a 2D man 😂) really helps to know when and what to adjust. I really like this concept of changing roles and duties to vary your build up depending on the opponent and their pressing scheme. It’s something I’ve often ignored but will definitely pay more attention to this so thank you!

Away from my laptop right now but have had another stab at creating this in FM23 after being inspired by this thread. Currently managing Sporting Lisbon. I chose a Winger on Attack for the Saka role, but using a left footed player with traits to cut inside from the right. This gives it a good balance of stretching the field whilst having some unpredictability. It worked a treat, using Trincao, he got 3 assists and a goal in one game! Next to him, is the Odegaard role which I chose MEZ on Support as I don’t think he has enough penetration or attacking runs to warrant an Attack duty - plus they move high enough on support in the new ME now. For Xhaka you could also go for MEZ on Support but a BBM works with instructions to stay wider and get forward. For the Martinelli role I have alternated with an IF(A) or IW(A). You could easily drop this to support but when watching Gabi play, he is Arsenal’s most threatening player when it comes to runs in behind. Just look at how he has destroyed Trent and Emerson Royal this season alone. For Jesus I chose a DLF(A) but purely because I don’t have a player for the CF(A) role - but I was happy with the movement. My striker got a hat trick in this role. IWB(S), two BPDs and then a WB(S) make up the back line. I would have chose a FB(S) for more realism in the White role but Pedro Porro is wasted as a standard full back!

Whilst I agree with the rest of your comments, I really don’t see Saka as a playmaker. Yes, he is creative, but he’s certainly not a playmaker in my eyes. In my opinion he is a modern wide player, which you will typically find in most positional play systems. They start wide, stretching the pitch, often on the opposite flank to their preferred foot, allowing them to receive the ball facing the half space/rest of the field. Much like Mahrez, Grealish, Sterling - or to look abroad, Napoli’s new star, Kvaratshkelia. Saka is very fixed in his position, which for me is an indication of a non playmaking role. Yes he makes runs in behind, or can drop to receive the ball, but he does this almost always on the right flank, hugging the touchline. Personally I wouldn’t assign anyone a playmaker role in this Arsenal side - much like Man City. You could argue in both teams that the closest to a playmaker in those sides are Odegaard and De Bruyne based on how they like to come deep to receive the ball at times, but they are both part of a larger collective rather than the main focal points to an attack. For me, Saka is also part of that - he is not a ball magnet or the chief creator at Arsenal.

Really good write up. I like your take on the system and how it is flexible depending on the opponent. You proposed some interesting solutions here. As an Arsenal fan myself I’m loving how we’re playing under Arteta at the moment and have been trying to replicate this in FM as well. My biggest issue is getting the Martinelli and Saka roles to work in conjunction with the Xhaka and Odegaard (MEZ) roles. In the new ME they have made the Winger role hold the width better (finally!) and attack minded CM roles (like a MEZ) push up higher in build up - which is also great. However the problem is, as you mentioned, an IF and even IW in my tests with a similar tactic, basically hold hands with the MEZ. Only the Winger role holds the width properly and occupies the left / right flank. You basically end up with two players in each half space otherwise, and nobody really stretching the pitch - which goes against the core principles of positional play. Have you tested this over a few games? Interested to see if you can get it to work without having both wide players as Wingers.