Gangor
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Posts posted by Gangor
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1 hour ago, Smurf said:
Ryzen Ryzen Ryzen... get off that record. It is not always the best choice.
That's true - price is important. But given a similarly priced device and other things being equal Ryzen is best in most price brackets at the moment
1 hour ago, Smurf said:U processors throtlle under heavy load. I almost never recommend a U processor for FM.
Not true. Poorly cooled processors throttle under load. U processors are often not cooled as well, but if they have a good cooling solution there's no reason for a U processor to throttle. I would only recommend them though to people with limited budgets because they tend to be cheaper. Your own list notes the R5 4500U is a strong performer.
1 hour ago, Smurf said:STOP ELABORATING ON MY POSTS. I DO NOT ENDORSE @Gangor POINT OF VIEW.
You don't have to endorse it, but someone has to correct misleading information.
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Get him in a tutoring group with someone who has high loyalty
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1 hour ago, Smurf said:
Ideally I'm looking for a processor in the top 100 here https://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Processors-Benchmark-List.2436.0.html
@silentwars This table is helpful. It's not the full story though, because it doesn't take into account some important points in its rankings:
- Cost. Those top end Intel processors are generally only in premium, very expensive laptops. The price to performance is generally terrible.
- Required cooling. The TDP rating is theoretically the amount of heat generated during normal operation, but in reality it often bears little resemblance to the actual amount of heat the processor puts out.
- Efficiency. This may be less of a problem if you're just gaming at home, but which processor you choose will have a large impact on the battery lift of your laptop. The U series processors are all quite efficient, but AMD gaming processors have been shown to be quite a bit better than Intel in this regard.
- Sustained performance. This is actually related to cooling, because modern Intel H Series (gaming) processors put out quite a lot of heat when they're working hard which means that if not properly cooled they will slow down to prevent the chip from overheating. Laptops, being by nature constrained in the area of ventilation are quite vulnerable to this.
So essentially the implementation is as important as the processor you choose which is why it's always a good idea to read or watch reviews of any laptop you're thinking of buying. This is especially the case with Intel at the moment as there have been some terrible implementations which kneecap the performance of the processor (I'm looking at you Apple), but also with AMD which is often put in budget systems where the cooling might not have been well thought out (eg the ASUS A15). Overall though I'm more comfortable recommending an AMD based laptop (at least in the current generation) because they generate less heat under load as a result of their superior lithography.
I would generally advise the following as a guide (as of right now, anyway) by budget:
Under £500 - play FM on Stadia via a cheap chomebook or similar. Trying to run FM on an underpowered laptop is just going to cause disappointment. If you can't be online when you play it would be worth looking at used i5 or i7 based laptops but temper your expectations.
£5-600 - Ryzen 5 4500u based laptop. These processors are amazing, beating out even last gen gaming processors. Also they have integrated graphics that can play the FM match engine with some settings turned down. All with only a 15w TDP meaning you should get decent battery life.
£6-800 - Ryzen 5 4600h based laptop. This is the price range of the budget laptop so be careful about your choice, but most will perform well. The 4600h provides excellent performance and possibly the best bang for buck for laptops right now.
£800-1000 Ryzen 7 4800h, or maybe the Ryzen 5 4600hs (depending on requirement). In this range is the cheaper of the 8 core Ryzens but I wouldn't necessarily go straight for those. You can find premium gaming laptops with the 4600hs which provides still very good performance with improved efficiency, allowing for thinner and lighter devices and longer battery life.
£1000-£1500 In this range is more premium Ryzen 7 laptops and you also will start to see some competition from Intel. Intel I7 laptops in this price range may well be faster, but make sure to check the review for the individual model because this is very much affected by the cooling ability of the device.
£1500+ I9 or Ryzen 9. Intel has a slight performance edge in this category but generates more heat. I'd therefore say if you want portability (seems like an edgecase with a gaming system like this but whatever) go for the Ryzen and if you just want the fastest thing available go for a well cooled Intel laptop.
In all cases get the lowest spec GPU offered unless you want to also play more demanding games. The most basic of dedicated graphics processors will be more than fine for FM. Even for the 4500u paying for a dedicated GPU is a waste since you'd then be able to afford a proper gaming laptop.
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11 hours ago, jeaku14 said:
Hi guys, I'm looking to stream FM 20 with approx 10 leagues loaded and also edit/render videos. I have posted before but circumstances changed - now ideally looking for a built PC to order.
I was recommended this one by the store - https://www.pccasegear.com/bundle/56/36620,36765,36781,48994,49330,53652,56121,56131,58729,59133,59329.
It comes in at a little cheaper than I was expecting tbh - anything here that needs upgrading?
B550 motherboard - this will allow upgrades to the processor and storage in the future. Also if you're recording your streams you'll want more storage I would say. A 650w power supply wouldn't cost too much more and would give more room for later upgrades.
If your budget stretches video editing would be improved by upgrading to the 3900x (or even 3950x, although this is seriously diminishing returns) and 32GB of RAM. Depending on the software you use a better video card might also help but I wouldn't class that as a priority due to rapidly increasing cost.
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26 minutes ago, BGKnoccoutt said:
Hi fellas,
Looking at getting back into FM and will need a new laptop/PC. Budget around £600-£800. FM is the main reason I want it but I would like to be able to play something like Civilization if possible. Looking at laptops mainly as I am a student so might need it for uni work although I do have an older laptop that I currently use for that so depends on whether I get rid of that or not.Want to be able to play the game as best I can, as many leagues as possible etc
Any thoughts on these?Thanks
I'm not familiar with each model of laptop, but based on the specs the last one will perform the best for CPU heavy games like FM and Civ. Either of the Intel ones would be okay too with £50 a fair tradeoff for a slightly older processor.
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2 hours ago, WhiteRose90 said:
Hey all, I was hoping for a bit of advice. Looking at getting this and wondered if I would be able to run FM20 with one league loaded and 2D/Only Commentary in use. I know it isn't ideal for FM but I need the MacBook for work and wanted to know if I can play these fairly low settings of FM on it? Any advice grateful please
Wow that's expensive.
But yes, I'm sure it would manage one league.
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3 hours ago, james2609 said:
Thanks for the feedback.
I am now looking at this that was mentioned earlier and possibly upgrading the ram myself. Looking around it looks possible on this. https://www.amazon.co.uk/HP-Pavilion-15-ec1001na-Gaming-Laptop/dp/B0877L4KMD?tag=georiot-trd-21&ascsubtag=trd-gb-8150257581319843000-21&th=1
I know itll probably be worse performance wise but that seems a great price and itll fit my needs i think or do you think its worth the extra 400ish for the legion 5
It depends what's important to you. A more expensive laptop like the Legion is going to have better build quality, better screen etc. If you're just concerned about raw performance, no it's not worth it.
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6 hours ago, james2609 said:
That legion 5 does look good too.
What do you think of these: https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/computing/laptops/laptops/asus-rog-zephyrus-g14-14-gaming-laptop-amd-ryzen-5-gtx-1650-ti-512-gb-ssd-10206074-pdt.html
To elaborate on @Smurf's comment, the G14 you link to is based on a 6-core rather than 8-core processor and has less RAM, so it won't perform as well. It is however a different class of laptop, being comparatively thin and light for gaming laptops. The HS processor is also more energy efficient so you should get decent battery life. If you need to take your laptop around with you often it would be worth considering, even though the performance isn't as good. It might be noted that it will likely still beat anything from Intel short of a well cooled i9.
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Just now, Redwinevino said:
Thank you both, you've given me much to think about.
I normally do just need it for internet / word stuff but have the sudden huge urge to play FM again - so don't really want to go too expensive when it's likely not worth it for one game just incase the notion passes
You might also consider using Google Stadia to play FM. You need a good internet connection, but the specs of your computer then basically don't matter. If you have a smart TV it might even work on that.
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2 minutes ago, WelshMourinho said:
Other than just the usual Netflix, unlikely. I'd maybe step into some other games too but I'm planning on getting a PS5 when that's released so that'll probably be my main console.
If you're just playing at home you might consider getting a living room small form factor PC and plug it into your TV. That's how I mostly play FM and find it works pretty well. AMD have just announced a new range of APUs (that is CPUs with graphics build in) which should result in some very practical devices in the near future.
If you're looking at a laptop though AMD offer better bang for buck currently and in your price range you could go for either one of the more premium Ryzen 5 4600h/GTX1650 models or stretch your budget slightly to a Ryzen 7 4800H/GTX1650Ti. Either would do a good job.
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5 hours ago, Heywood JaBlowme said:
Flexible - $1,000-1,500 US.
My short time with M15 R2 spoiled me. Graphics settings maxed out, FM looked beautiful with the RTX 2060. Bummer that the heat/battery issues left me no choice but to send it back to Dell. Would like to be able to do that on the next laptop I buy, if possible. Again, I don't play GPU intensive games, only FM or older versions of OOTP, which require the same resources. Thanks.
The Lenovo Legion 5 comes in a Ryzen 7 4800H/16GB/GTX1650Ti flavour for around that price. That would be pretty well balanced for FM and will run the match engine at max settings perfectly well.
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1 hour ago, WelshMourinho said:
Alright fellas, I'm after a new laptop and might even consider switching to a gaming PC, but I thought I'd start by looking at new laptops.
Budget wise I'm happy to go to from around £800-£950. I'd like to actually see what a smooth FM match engine looks like lol because every laptop I've ever had has made it look incredibly slow.
I'm looking at the HP Pavilion already linked here a few pages back, but if there's anything better I'm willing to look at it.
Is there anything that anyone can recommend I should definitely take a look at? Everything just looks like random letters and names when it comes to comparing processors and graphics cards!
Will you be using it for anything else?
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9 hours ago, davie1987 said:
Yes that would be a lot better. I wasn't aware the new Ryzen 3's were available yet - good find! This will perform a lot better with more RAM, but from what I understand it comes with an empty DIMM slot so you can slot that in at a later date.
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8 hours ago, Doiggy_2007 said:
Interested on what people think this would be able to handle FM-Wise - just bought a new PC..
Intel I5 9400F 4.1GHz Six Core;
Nvidia GTX 1650 4GB SUPER; PC
Memory Upgrade Dual DDR4 : 16GB (2x8GB) 3200Mhz DDR4
Crucial BX500 240GB SSD
Seagate 1TB Barracuda Drive
I think the motherboard is a Z390It will run FM very well. As a note, the 9400F is a locked CPU, so having a Z390 motherboard (the purpose of which is overclocking) is pointless. You may as well have a B360 and save a few £
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3 minutes ago, davie1987 said:
https://www.currys.co.uk/GBUK/product-10195508-pdt.html
What about this laptop guys I only normally run 2 or 3 leagues at a time
If you must buy a laptop in this price range the best performance will be found with a Ryzen 3 based laptop. If you can find a 10th gen i3 that would be better, although I would expect that to be £400+
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1 hour ago, davie1987 said:
Or can anyone recommend a decent ish laptop for about £350
Not brand new. Keep an eye out for a 2nd hand i5 8th gen based laptop maybe? New laptops in this price range tend to be terrible at anything but basic tasks.
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1 hour ago, davie1987 said:
Would a laptop with the following graphics card and processor run football manager ?
Graphics: Intel UHD Graphics 600
Processor: Intel Celeron N4020
It would run it but very poorly. It might be suitable to play the game via Stadia?
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Just now, lofty20000 said:
Thanks for that @Gangor i have looked a lot online, and like you said before the ASUS TUF laptops have lots of issues with cooling, have seen reviews on the ACER which mentions fans can be noisy. and i understand that at my price point some sacrifices have to be made, but would imagine that any other them would be a massive improvement on my current laptop that is a i5 5200u with integrated graphics and 8gb of RAM, so all advice is greatly appreciated. and with regards to RAM and storage can add more down the line when funds allow, and as I only really play FM and perhaps something like broken sword. and thanks again for your help and patience.
Beware not all gaming laptops (especially the cheap ones) allow you to upgrade RAM or even storage.
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2 hours ago, lofty20000 said:
Hi @Smurf can i pick you brains for what it was that made the Acer above better that the HP linked below, so I can get a better understanding of what to consider in future many thanks again for all your help so far. you and the others on here do a fantastic job of helping people make informed choices.
Almost none of the recommendations on this thread are personal, @lofty20000 The laptops you've linked will all perform very similarly since they have the same basic configuration of CPU, GPU and RAM. Details (usually) not covered in spec lists include things like how usable are the keyboard and trackpad, can you upgrade RAM or storage, how bright or colour accurate is the monitor, what is the build quality like etc. That's not to say that you have to be uninformed - the internet holds a plethora of laptop reviews if you take a few minutes to look. I find video reviews from Youtube particularly helpful as you'll get to see different angles of the device and the reviewer will likely demonstrate things like how much can the screen (or laptop itself) flex or how it feels to use the keyboard. The other benefit of Youtube is that you can get an idea of reputability from the number of subscribers.
Different laptops are likely to have different pros and cons and it's a good idea to figure out which pros are most important to you and which cons you can live with.
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3 hours ago, Heywood JaBlowme said:
Purchased an Alienware M15 R2 a couple of weeks ago and wish I had done more research.
Specs;
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 6GB GDDR6
RAM 16GB (2x8GB) 2666MHz DDR4
Intel Core 9th Generation i7-9750H Processor (6 Core, Up to 4.50GHz, 12MB Cache, 45W)FM is the only gaming I do. After about 45 minutes - 1 hour, the fans will run faster & louder and power will be drawn from the battery, as the CPU requires more power than the 240W power pack can supply. I posted this issue at the Dell/Alienware forums and apparently there's nothing that can be done about it.
One response:
After one hour of playing FM, the M15 is too hot to keep on my lap & about 8-10% of the battery is drawn. Happens every time. Was looking forward to getting an Alienware but this is unacceptable. My Inspiron 15 has been pretty dependable for 7+ years, except for a busted hinge. At the rate the M15 is burning, don't see it lasting more than 2 years.
A 21 day return policy from Dell Outlet so I needed to make a decision. I requested a Return Authorization and sent the laptop back today.
Very upset with how this has turned out and still in the market for a gaming laptop.
About $1,300-1,400 US. Ryzen based since after what I experienced, Intel would be a no no.
You might try undervolting your CPU. That would reduce the amount of power it uses. It would also affect performance slightly, but it sounds like it might be worth it.
Edit: Hah, should have read the whole post first. You could get something pretty decent for that price. Is portability important or will you mostly just play at home?
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5 hours ago, Hywel said:
Great suggestion! At first glance I really didn't like the look of it, but having watched a review video it's a really good looking laptop, they should probably change the website pictures. EDIT: On the education store I can grab it for £726 as well... very tempting! I had a look into the Ryzen 7 4700u processor last night and it really does appear to blow any other processors in the category out the water (i7-10510u, i5-1035g1, i7-1065G7 etc.). I've tried to find other alternatives with the same processor, but they seem few and far between in the UK right now.
A Dell Inspiron for £700 here: https://www.dell.com/en-uk/shop/laptops/new-inspiron-14-5000/spd/inspiron-14-5405-laptop/cn54503
I'm sure they are great laptops. One thing you give up as you look at cheaper models of laptop is the quality of the screen. I've not seen reviews for these models but as that was something you particularly mentioned I would definitely do some checking on that before buying.
5 hours ago, Hywel said:One question I do have - is a better processor, such as the above mentioned, worth the trade off of having no dedicated GPU in my case?
It depends on what you're doing. For FM if you're choosing a Ryzen processor it's definitely reasonable because their integrated GPUs are not bad and should be able to run the match engine just fine. For your college work I don't think the GPU would matter much apart from maybe the virtualisation software. If there are community forums for that it might be worth asking there also. One thing I can say is that the iGPU in the Ryzen is going to be better than pretty much any laptop GPU from 5 years ago, so if your current laptop can run it this definitely can.
There is also an upside to consider when you don't have a dedicated GPU - better battery life.
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1 minute ago, Smurf said:
I know they are different classes - that's the point of recommending it.
Sorry, I was highlighting the point to our less knowledgeable readers.
1 minute ago, Smurf said:TDP doesn't necessarily mean more power... that's a misnomer. A higher TDP will provide more in terms of performance, but can draw more electricity from the power supply unit. TDP has no measure to how much power it draws, it's a basic indicator though. And Windows powermanagement is pretty good in this regard. With a higher TDP you'll need better cooling solutions - to maximise performance.
Yes, except since it runs at a higher base clock it will be drawing more power than a U processor at idle, or when doing normal college tasks like word processing. The battery life will absolutely be a lot worse for an H processor vs a U processor of either brand.
1 minute ago, Smurf said:But in general the 10750H is better.
When gaming or doing demanding tasks, yes. In all other circumstances no. In my experience college means a lot of sitting in libraries typing into a word processor or IDE. Also laptops with H processors tend to have ridiculous colours and RGB lighting which would make you look stupid in a college library.
1 minute ago, Smurf said:Plus with college work - handling large databases, large files, etc. the TDP at a lowerpoint is actually a disadvantage.
Not enough to outweigh the advantages.
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51 minutes ago, Smurf said:
Operates at a faster base clock speed
Less cores - but more threads available
More than double the L2+L3 Cache
Link? I know the Userbenchmark reviews are generally wildly biased towards Intel, but I've not noticed bias in the actual benchmarks before. Indeed, they often contradict the reviews.
In any case, a glance at the FM20 benchmarking thread shows that predecessors to the 9700F outperform the 3600x for FM, so presumably this will continue for the 9700F.
I still think what I said stands - price should dictate the choice.
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10 minutes ago, Smurf said:
I know we are talking about thin laptops - so PC Specialist have a very decent one with a higher end processor
https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/notebooks/FusionIV-pro-15/
It weighs about 1.0 kg.
Just putting it out there as an option - what do you think @Gangor
With a faster base speed and faster turbo speed. I know it has a higher TDP which means it needs more cooling solutions... but just an idea.
They're two different classes of processor. The intel one uses a lot more power which will result in much worse battery life. Performance benchmarks are surprisingly pretty much neck and neck though with the i7 having the edge on single core with the Ryzen being better at multicore. For his use case I'd recommend the Ryzen all day.
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New Laptop/PC Advice -Please Read the Opening Post
in Football Manager General Discussion
Posted
Either of the i5's with '10' at the beginning of the model number are going to be about as good as you're going to get at the moment in that price range. I'd recommend a Ryzen 4500U laptop but they seem to be out of stock or overpriced everywhere currently. It can handle 4-5 leagues, but don't expect wonders in terms of speed. I think the 3D match engine might struggle, although it will probably work if you turn most of the options off.