Is the 'community' isolating the majority ?

[Ryds]

I'm top of the premier league, 13 points clear with 8 games to go, I've lost ONE game all season, my squad is experienced and balanced, morale/harmony is excellent, my team talks effective - everything is going excellent. So why have I just lost the last 3 games against mid table or lower opposition?

Like most posts here, I don't know why, nor do I know what to do about it except just suck it up and hope things improve before the end of the season and I don't drop too many points.

I've seen posts on here about the game trying to make sure the player has a tense season by making the run come down to the last game to make things more 'exciting' for the player.

Now, I don't know if I agree with that or not (I hope it's not true) but for want of tactical/in game feedback as to why this season suddenly looks likely to be a photo finish (totally against the run of the season as a whole) all I can think of is it's scripted.

Some community members may shout 'no it's not scripted, that is an untrue rumour, it's your tactics etc etc' but the case remains that because of the issues related above I can only think it is scripted because I can see no recourse in the game to correct this out of the blue lack of form.

And that is beyond rubbish.

[arsenal_2111]

I agree, if si make the game so "realistic" that the general game player will understand they will lose alot of there fanbase. i agree tactics are important but how will a 13-15 year old really crack the concept?

I've got to admit, I'm a little offended at that. I'm 15, yet understand the tactics system. Recently I went on a 28 game unbeaten run with a tactic I created myself.

Saying that certain age groups won't understand something seems a bit unfair imo.

[mlp071]

Solution can be very simple.

If SI decides to publish in manual WWfan's TT&F,or something similar , for people that want(need) more information in order to comprehend game , it would make their life easier.I personally don't need it(never read it either) , but it looks to me that some smaller amount of people is having problem comprehending basics and can only benefit from it.In addition to hinted rewamp of sliders that should give everyone enough help.

Now, if they don't have patience to read it , then it's their problem.But if they expect that there is "magic" tactics that will get them win every game , then there is nothing to help them with that, at least not anymore.What is the point of simulation , if everyone can grab it and beat it from the first try?

Certainly, some small amount of "disgruntled" people will still claim that ME "cheats"..sigh.

[JoeLatics]

I've got to admit, I'm a little offended at that. I'm 15, yet understand the tactics system. Recently I went on a 28 game unbeaten run with a tactic I created myself.

Saying that certain age groups won't understand something seems a bit unfair imo.

14 and same here (well, not the 28 game unbeatern run, but I got Swindon promoted, and will probably have the in the Prem after 2 years )

[thesandman]

Solution can be very simple.

If SI decides to publish in manual WWfan's TT&F,or something similar , for people that want(need) more information in order to comprehend game , it would make their life easier.I personally don't need it(never read it either) , but it looks to me that some smaller amount of people is having problem comprehending basics and can only benefit from it.In addition to hinted rewamp of sliders that should give everyone enough help.

Now, if they don't have patience to read it , then it's their problem.But if they expect that there is "magic" tactics that will get them win every game , then there is nothing to help them with that, at least not anymore.What is the point of simulation , if everyone can grab it and beat it from the first try?

Certainly, some small amount of "disgruntled" people will still claim that ME "cheats"..sigh.

I don't expect - or want - magic tricks to win on the game. I don't even want to know HOW to win.

I just want to know:

1 - what the controls do (eg sliders)

2 - WHY things are happening in the game?

WHY, is a side 1 place in the league higher than me after 3/4 of a season, that finished below me in the league last year, announced almost unbackable favourites by the oddsmakers before the game?????

Whenever that happens, I know I'm getting trounced. This tells me that there has to be something to do with club reputation, confidence, complacency etc that no matter what I do, it's not going to make a blind bit of difference to the result.

Feedback in the game, in regards to why some things are happening, is awful. And any time a game is reduced to pure guesswork, what's the point?

[Crpls]

WHY, is a side 1 place in the league higher than me after 3/4 of a season, that finished below me in the league last year, announced almost unbackable favourites by the oddsmakers before the game?????

The odds are largely based on reputation, which is impacted by many things once you create a game, including the players a team have. Reputation does not play into the match engine at all, though.

[Samsung]

Like the thing is right it is a game. Most other games have settings like easy/medium/hard but this would be silly to implement in the game. HOWEVER the game

does offer difficulty levels in the form of which team you wanna go. Like if you wanna easy time you go Chelsea, Barca or Man City however if you wanna challenge

you go a lower team or there is LLM for the fully hardcore fans of the game. I think the Average Joe can still play the game and enjoy it, however say for example

your favourite team in the world is Hull becuase you have supported them your whole life, you are a local etc etc it will be hard for you to play if your new but

thats life you know? I mean if you find the game too hard, like any other game try harder ^^

[lil ole me]

I'm top of the premier league, 13 points clear with 8 games to go, I've lost ONE game all season, my squad is experienced and balanced, morale/harmony is excellent, my team talks effective - everything is going excellent. So why have I just lost the last 3 games against mid table or lower opposition?

Like most posts here, I don't know why, nor do I know what to do about it except just suck it up and hope things improve before the end of the season and I don't drop too many points.

I've seen posts on here about the game trying to make sure the player has a tense season by making the run come down to the last game to make things more 'exciting' for the player.

Now, I don't know if I agree with that or not (I hope it's not true) but for want of tactical/in game feedback as to why this season suddenly looks likely to be a photo finish (totally against the run of the season as a whole) all I can think of is it's scripted.

Some community members may shout 'no it's not scripted, that is an untrue rumour, it's your tactics etc etc' but the case remains that because of the issues related above I can only think it is scripted because I can see no recourse in the game to correct this out of the blue lack of form.

And that is beyond rubbish.

Happened to me earlier, i was on a 75 game unbeaten league run then suddenly lost 3 league games in a row versus sides i was MASSIVE favourites for (10.00+). All scorelines of 1-0 and need i say it was about 15-2 shots on target in my favour too. The funny thing is, between these league games i had 2 cup games and i beat Juventus 2-0 and Valencia 6-1 with both odds very close (2.00-2.75).

[PjW_JJJ]

“I just feel the search for the most ultimately realistic managerial game is coming at the expense of casual gamers. The game imo is slowly but surely moving away from being a game and more like a managerial simulator.”

Indeed, but then again, this insistence that unless you have a perfect slider configuration and pick the team talk that the AI has deemed appropriate on this occasion is hardly a simulation of real life.

A real life manager will prepare a team in the following ways:

1. Ensure all facilities and organisational factors are in place given the resources of the club.

2. Ensure diet, medical care and administrative/advisory services are as good as possible.

3. Training: tactical – the players have sufficient practice operating the systems the manager wants to play; shape training and small (5 vs 5 etc) sessions to ensure players have the flexibility to operate the system and react to situations; innovations to cope with or exploit the forthcoming opposition. Technical – obvious. Set pieces – including those designed specifically to cope with or exploit the forthcoming opposition.

4. Scouting the opposition: DETAILED reports on the way they play, the most influential players, the way they are most likely to play against you and the way to stop them.

This pretentious notion that the slider system is a cunning way of representing the real-life problems that a manager faces in translating his ideas to the pitch is utter guff.

If it was a management simulator, they’d have to find convincing ways to replicate that and translate it into a sensible matchday experience. What we have now is a complete dependence on nonsensical sliders and a vast importance of clicking the correct teamtalk for a choice of five. Get these wrong and the match engine deems your players are an odd breed of human that have never so much as seen a ball, never mind kicked one.

I think many not only find the dependence on a billion-plus slider combination annoying but daft to the point that they simply don’t want to read reams of advice on things that have no relevance to real-life management.

Unfortunately, the “gurus” like it, because, apparently, they’re good at the game under its current design, so the rest of us are ignoring FM9 in our droves.

[jayahr]

Very interesting point, which was raised quite a few times already, but never from that angle

I don't think that the forum community on here will have totally mislead SI to take the opinions on here for the casual gamer majority offline, but of course such danger exists.

I think it has become clear to SI by now that the intuitivity of tactics is a big and important thing to work on, because there should be no need to look on here for hints or tactics to be able to be successful at this game (while of course the maniacs should always be able to get a bit more out of the game than just a casual arcade style gamer, for it is and remains a simulation game).

For the rest however this game is far ahead of any previous version of the game, so I don't see that downward curve overall. I for myself couldn't go back to any earlier version because all the good and new and improved stuff from this version would lack. Once you have mastered tactics (any be it by downloading one which works) this game rocks.

get rid of this one major issue and FM10 will be a joy to behold. However, getting rid of that is a MUST, otherwise the series might indeed suffer big time over the next years

[thesandman]

Indeed, but then again, this insistence that unless you have a perfect slider configuration and pick the team talk that the AI has deemed appropriate on this occasion is hardly a simulation of real life.

....

This pretentious notion that the slider system is a cunning way of representing the real-life problems that a manager faces in translating his ideas to the pitch is utter guff.

If it was a management simulator, they’d have to find convincing ways to replicate that and translate it into a sensible matchday experience. What we have now is a complete dependence on nonsensical sliders and a vast importance of clicking the correct teamtalk for a choice of five. Get these wrong and the match engine deems your players are an odd breed of human that have never so much as seen a ball, never mind kicked one.

I think many not only find the dependence on a billion-plus slider combination annoying but daft to the point that they simply don’t want to read reams of advice on things that have no relevance to real-life management.

Unfortunately, the “gurus” like it, because, apparently, they’re good at the game under its current design, so the rest of us are ignoring FM9 in our droves.

Couldn't agree more. It's completely non-intuitive, and has no bearing at all to anything I've ever experienced in football, or any other sport. (yes, I've played and coached).

I've never, ever had a player ask me "and what's my mentality today boss? And how does that compare to Davo's, cos if it's different, we're gonna forget how to play together"

Guessing the team talk thing is bloody annoying too.

I think it has become clear to SI by now that the intuitivity of tactics is a big and important thing to work on, because there should be no need to look on here for hints or tactics to be able to be successful at this game (while of course the maniacs should always be able to get a bit more out of the game than just a casual arcade style gamer, for it is and remains a simulation game).

...

Once you have mastered tactics (any be it by downloading one which works) this game rocks.

get rid of this one major issue and FM10 will be a joy to behold. However, getting rid of that is a MUST, otherwise the series might indeed suffer big time over the next years

And there lies the whole argument. Why should anyone HAVE to download tactics that work? The game is about being a football manager, and working out what tactics work best with your players, and against the next opposition.

To me, it's not about downloading a tactic that someone has worked out exploits the ME's flaws, and pressing "continue" a million times and watching my team win.

It's about trying to work the game out for myself, find out what works for my team, and what doesn't.

But when the game gives me virtually ZERO feedback to help me with that, you're reduced to pure guesswork. You change 3 things, and suddenly you win. Which of the 3 made a difference? Was it any, or was it some magical, mystical 'complacency' code somewhere, or did I just strike it lucky and guess the right team talk?

The game is hugely addictive to me, because it's football, which I love. But guessing, and using an intricate control system is frustrating.

[Zinn]

Overall, I love the game and I think the addition of a 3D match engine is great.

I only have a few problems with '09, which I don't think would be too hard to fix:

1) As many posters have stated, the game doesn't give you any real feedback. What I'd like to see is better feedback when you ask your assistant manager to pick a team (ie. tell you exactly why player A is better than player B in a certain position.. Sometimes, the choice isn't that obvious, since they can have different talents), as well as tell me exactly what the sliders do. Tbh, I set them more or less randomly, depending on my team.. Just sort of "above the middle" between a neautral mentality and gung-ho for offensive teams, for instance, because I simply have no idea why I should be careful with it (seems to work, though).

2) It would be nice if the manual had more in depth descriptions. It shouldn't be a "how to win" guide but simply provide an example of how different sliders work together and possibly an example of how a single player with stats shown could be affected by it (Like 4-4-2 with a pic of sliders, telling how they work in that setting and showing a player and explain why his stats are excellent for this mentality/passing/whatever).

A minor problem for me is also that I'd like the manual to point out exactly what is being trained under each thing, since there are 36 different stats on an outfield player (didn't check keeper) and giving me 3 examples and writing "etc" isn't good enough if I want to train a specific non-critical stat to improve my player in certain situations.

3) Scoring almost always occurs due to a critical failure by a defender or a freak 30 yard goal, rather than the skill of the opposing attacker. I hate that this happens because it makes it incredibly difficult for me to rate my defense properly. Is my central defender truly rubbish, even though he seemingly has good stats? Was it a one-off thing they got lucky with? I can deal with someone making a great cross to the head of a striker or an FC being so damn good he manages to drible through my defense sometimes, but I truly hate the "whoops, your experienced defender forgot to tackle the player" thing that occurs all the time.

4) Injury length and frequency. This one bugs me for obvious reasons. In a lot of matches, I sometimes pick up 3-4 minor injuries that somehow develops to a month long injury for no apparent reason. I figure part of it is the computer making hard tackles (since my players have great physical stats, and while I realise there is a hidden injury proneness stat it can't be that high for every player in the game), which makes me wonder why hard tackles doesn't make it rain red and yellow cards. The purpose of hard tackles is simply to smash your opponent, at least IRL, so I wonder why it is a tool that you can use in every match with almost no consequence (you get a couple of extra yellows sometimes but that's it).

I like that the game is harder than previously but when there are no instructions on things like the sliders, telling exactly what they do, it makes it needlessly frustrating in certain areas.

[Aldridge]

I always preferred the wibble/wobble that could be found in the earlier CM versions. Although my memory of it now is slightly faded – but the pitch was cut into grids and you decided where you’re players should be with and without the ball in that area. I felt that was much more lifelike personally. Obviously pace and stamina still dictated how likely they were to get into that position. I also felt it was much more visual than the sliders.

I also find the Opp Instrcutions infuriating – sometimes I use them, sometimes I don’t, but I can never seem to tell if they are making a difference. In the end I gave up!

As many have said it’s just the lack of feedback that I find frustrating, and lack of clear instructions!

[pires29]

exactly.

altough game manual should have some hint and tips or tactical intructions that explains things. people should need to be online and download alot of patches, fixes,read tactics forums to get MAN U to win.

game needs balancing or difficulty options imo.

If I remember right is there not a wizard at the start of the game that helps you through the basics?