Tactic Tweaking – The what, where, when and how!!!!

[Cleon]

Originally posted by Benoit2:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

But yeah I never have any players on attacking individual mentalites but often use it as a team one.

Then you've just given me an additional tweaking tool during matches. And quite an important one as well </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No more questions? was just getting into them

Anyways I hope people have learnt new stuff, got new ideas, inspirtaion etc from todays replies

[van_zanten]

Having just bought FM2007 yesterday, this has undoubtedly been the most useful thread so far. But isn't the match engine almost identical to FM2006?

[Cleon]

Originally posted by van_zanten:

Having just bought FM2007 yesterday, this has undoubtedly been the most useful thread so far. But isn't the match engine almost identical to FM2006?

Nope, its simliar in way, but advanced in others. Read the unofficial tactics bible upto if you need more guidance

[Benoit2]

Originally posted by Cleon:

No more questions? was just getting into them

Just the next few for now

In general, the team instructions you change during and between matches are mainly mentality and tempo? Timewasting as well probably, but creative freedom and tackling will probably only be touched in exceptional circumstances.

Then we still have closing down, passing, width and defensive line. How often do you change these? I assume closing down and passing wont be touched too often, since these will probably have been set individually?

And then a last off-topic question : Whats the point in forward runs for strikers, theyre already forward, right? Mine are on mentality 12 but getting offside quite a bit, will turn it down from mixed to rarely, see if that fixes it..

[rafregt]

Originally posted by van_zanten:

Having just bought FM2007 yesterday, this has undoubtedly been the most useful thread so far. But isn't the match engine almost identical to FM2006?

Best thing I found was taking the time to look at my players (luton town) attributes and abilities. Decide how you want to play, in my case a 4-4-2 diamond, then adjust your players individual instructions to get the best out of them. Small changes or tweaks can get decent results, in my case a 2-0 away win at wolves is a highlight and stands testament to all the people who offer advice here. I haven't followed anyone in particular, but this forum planted the seed so to speak. Most people avoid in depth tactical stuff and lose interest because they can't win, but in reality a little effort gets you rewarding gameplay.

[van_zanten]

Yeah, I've always discovered a basic shape and then tweaked my individual player instructions to coincide with my players' strengths and weaknesses. I find this to be quite elementary. The overall team instructions are what intrigue me most - defensive line, closing down and tempo especially. I find it varies entirely game by game.

So far so good with my Preston side, though. Slowly developing an efficient blueprint tactic and I'm climbing the Championship table in my first season and getting some form together.

It's all about playing to your players' strengths

[rafregt]

Agreed mate, I always play a DM and he and the centre backs play defensive, closing down often on the most skilful opposition players also. Find a quick tempo attack always does me proud when playing at home

[jonnycyclone]

Agreed that this is a great post Cleon. For some time now, I have been trying to use the scout report to determine how I should play, but it appears I have been doing the wrong things! e.g. If a team likes to play a slow patient game, I would do the same, as this is my style of play, but I would increase my closing down, to try and win the ball back quicker. This was not getting me many results. Now however, having read this post, I decided to go direct and fast, winnning 3-0!

A quick question if I may. Having used this theory to notch up a 6 games winning streak, I have got to an opponent that has now type of prefered passing or tempo, but accoerding to the scout, likes to 'mix it up a bit'.

Any advice on the best way to play against this??

[Cleon]

In general, the team instructions you change during and between matches are mainly mentality and tempo? Timewasting as well probably, but creative freedom and tackling will probably only be touched in exceptional circumstances.

Then we still have closing down, passing, width and defensive line. How often do you change these? I assume closing down and passing wont be touched too often, since these will probably have been set individually?

The things I change in game a lot are team mentality, team passing (as most of my team use global passing, its easier to tweak then), tempo, d-line the rest I don't ever touch.

And then a last off-topic question : Whats the point in forward runs for strikers, theyre already forward, right? Mine are on mentality 12 but getting offside quite a bit, will turn it down from mixed to rarely, see if that fixes it..

Exactly, I never have nor never will use forward runs for strikers as it makes them off side.

[Cleon]

Agreed that this is a great post Cleon. For some time now, I have been trying to use the scout report to determine how I should play, but it appears I have been doing the wrong things! e.g. If a team likes to play a slow patient game, I would do the same, as this is my style of play, but I would increase my closing down, to try and win the ball back quicker. This was not getting me many results. Now however, having read this post, I decided to go direct and fast, winnning 3-0!

Nice, glad you having success now by re evaluating

A quick question if I may. Having used this theory to notch up a 6 games winning streak, I have got to an opponent that has now type of prefered passing or tempo, but accoerding to the scout, likes to 'mix it up a bit'.

Any advice on the best way to play against this??

Aye fot these games I watch a large proportion of it, this way I see what exactly they are mixing upand what they start with. If its mix up, it means the manager changes things often, just like I do, passing tempo etc. Thats why its easier to watch a chunk of the game to get your settings right.

[bacardi]

without doubt one of the best threads i've read on here,tempo has been one of those settings that i've been loathed to change during a game but thats changed now.

just one question for cleon,are f/b arrows something you use at all to attack or to defend? i use them at times but i'm never too sure if i'm messing up the players position on the pitch by using arrows.

[Benoit2]

Originally posted by Cleon:

The things I change in game a lot are team mentality, team passing (as most of my team use global passing, its easier to tweak then), tempo, d-line the rest I don't ever touch.

I noticed in your Bluntblade tactic, you actually have passing mixed throughout your team. Some direct, some short. Doesnt really stroke with what you just said

Or was that because some of your players lacked the quality to play a certain passing style at that time?

[KevinLFC]

if your away from home are you better off using slow tempo and short passing rather than hitting direct and high tempo against the likes of Arsenal and Chelsea?

[Cleon]

Originally posted by Benoit2:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

The things I change in game a lot are team mentality, team passing (as most of my team use global passing, its easier to tweak then), tempo, d-line the rest I don't ever touch.

I noticed in your Bluntblade tactic, you actually have passing mixed throughout your team. Some direct, some short. Doesnt really stroke with what you just said

Or was that because some of your players lacked the quality to play a certain passing style at that time? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cos of the players, and needed certain players to play certain ways to be effective. I created the Blunt Blade about 5 months ago now My players had too varied passing stats for my liking, so I had to alter them individually

if your away from home are you better off using slow tempo and short passing rather than hitting direct and high tempo against the likes of Arsenal and Chelsea?

Depends how they line up against you.

[awhec]

Cleon, how do you adjust CF for your team/player?

[Cleon]

Originally posted by awhec:

Cleon, how do you adjust CF for your team/player?

Nope, as your not advised to have more than 3 players on much creative freedom, so it would be too much messing around.

[Saumyajit]

quote:

Team mentality is the one that determines what stle you play, i.e defensive, attacking etc. Individual mentality is a positional tool andagression tool. By this i mean it determines how far from his original position he either drops back or advances. So if you had a fullback on 20 mentality, hed probably be more positioned as a wingback if you saw the game. And so on,does that make sense? hope it does. quote]

One question here, what is the significance of the arrows. For example if I put a right back with arrow to defensive midfielder right, what change will it make? Also will it be different from a defensive midfielder right with a barrow to right back?

Why I am asking it here is that when I get attacked down the wings, I decrease my right and left back mentalities and remove farrows. Is this an effective strategy?

[bean feast]

Playing as a cohesive unit

Cleon touched upon it a little, but I think that it is overlooked often. I am talking about creative freedom. It is so very tempting when you look through your squad to bump creative freedom up to high for all of your flair players. This can be a big mistake.

Even if I am a top class team, my creative freedom is usually at a minimum for most of my team. A prime example of a team with low creative freedom is Chelsea. They play with a highly structured and rigid formation. In FM terms, just because a player is on low creative freedom it does not mean that he will not still work his magic. Remember that players with great skills will still use them even with low creative freedom. I like to play with a very rigid structure so as to defend and attack as a unit. The golden rule:

Creative freedom = willingness to ignore instructions

So, the more creative freedom you give your players, the less likely they will adhere to your instructions. I play a 4-2-3-1 at the moment and only my striker has creative freedom (Andy Johnson, I'm everton). Even Arteta (who has great flair and is tempting to bump up as I mentioned) and McFadden on the wings have medium creative freedom and Cahill who plays in behind is set to a little lower than medium. Arteta leads the assist charts at the minute due to his pinpoint crossing. My whole team shifts nicely as a unit and defends very well.

You may disagree, but I feel that creative freedom is really a luxury for the Kakas, Zidanes, and Ronaldinhos of the world; for those positions that really don't require much discipline. Maybe it can be used for wingers but I don't like this idea too much since my wingers have a responsibility to defend. Then again, my philosophy is such that I ONLY sign players with high determination, work rate, stamina, teamwork and natural fitness; really high technical ability is second in importance to me. You may have a team out there that has succeeded with full backs on free roles! That's the beauty of this game though isn't it?

[Cleon]

Originally posted by bean feast:

Playing as a cohesive unit

Cleon touched upon it a little, but I think that it is overlooked often. I am talking about creative freedom. It is so very tempting when you look through your squad to bump creative freedom up to high for all of your flair players. This can be a big mistake.

Even if I am a top class team, my creative freedom is usually at a minimum for most of my team. A prime example of a team with low creative freedom is Chelsea. They play with a highly structured and rigid formation. In FM terms, just because a player is on low creative freedom it does not mean that he will not still work his magic. Remember that players with great skills will still use them even with low creative freedom. I like to play with a very rigid structure so as to defend and attack as a unit. The golden rule:

Creative freedom = willingness to ignore instructions

So, the more creative freedom you give your players, the less likely they will adhere to your instructions. I play a 4-2-3-1 at the moment and only my striker has creative freedom (Andy Johnson, I'm everton). Even Arteta (who has great flair and is tempting to bump up as I mentioned) and McFadden on the wings have medium creative freedom and Cahill who plays in behind is set to a little lower than medium. Arteta leads the assist charts at the minute due to his pinpoint crossing. My whole team shifts nicely as a unit and defends very well.

You may disagree, but I feel that creative freedom is really a luxury for the Kakas, Zidanes, and Ronaldinhos of the world; for those positions that really don't require much discipline. Maybe it can be used for wingers but I don't like this idea too much since my wingers have a responsibility to defend. Then again, my philosophy is such that I ONLY sign players with high determination, work rate, stamina, teamwork and natural fitness; really high technical ability is second in importance to me. You may have a team out there that has succeeded with full backs on free roles! That's the beauty of this game though isn't it?

Spot on

[Rashidi]

I've been having the same thoughts on CF for the last couple of weeks, some of the best tactics ever made on this game have actually got minimal amounts of CF. I'm hoping to make an attacking tactic that plays simple effective football and I believe keeping CF low will be crucial to it.

In fact whenever I use an LLM side, CF is kept low at all times.

[Saumyajit]

Maybe a couple of guys can be put on high CF towards the end of the match when chasing a game...

[XJG]

Tweaking of CF is also in my current priority list.

What are rough guidelines regarding CF levels? bean feast and rashdi1 mentioned ‘low CF’ , ‘minimum CF’, ‘minimal amounts of CF’ which I understand as really low CF levels (1-5). Have I got it right?

I have quite negative experience with very low CF. Last weekend I tried to implement one of dowloaded tactics, and I was wondering why my defenders keep kicking ball upfield or putting it in stands all the time. I believe the reason was CF=1 and Mentality=1 As a result my defenders had ~25% passing rate which IMHO is not acceptable.

CF in my current tactics is set as follows:

Team – normal (10)

GK – low (4)

CDs - low (5)

FBs - low (5) or low normal (6-7)

Wings - low normal (8-9)

DMC - low (5)

AMC – high (15)

FCs – normal (10)

Are these CF levels low enough?

[Saumyajit]

One thing I would suggest is try to have individual CF sort of mirror individual creativity and decisions. If you have a striker with low creativity and decision, but a good one at banging balls in and winning headers, you would not want to put a CF of 10 on him

[Spo_Kesperson]

This is an intersting thread.

Iam currently in my third season with West Brom (EPL - Feb 09) and I have been in the top 5 all season playing a 4-4-2 wide diamond with a target man and with my AMC in a free role behind.

Since maybe early Dec 08 my results have been worse and I worked this out to be because I was no longer the underdog in every match I played.

So, I tried to change for the matches where I was the underdog by playing more defensive and then later I moved the AMC back and took his free role away.

Now that seemed to work against the big teams but there was still a few games where I was the underdog but the opposition played a flat 4-4-2. This is where I became unstuck because neither tactic worked as my first tactic could often end in a 3-3 thriller and the new one was more likely to produce a 0-3.

Now, I have never totally gotten into the making of my own tactics in previous games but I have become determined in 07 to do so. So my experience isnt great and I could be missing something very simple but iam sure I will get there eventually.

Following the initial post I will be using a scout to report on the next opposition to see if it is something as simple as there not being just two tactics that you need but the basis of a tactic that changes from game to game.

[Guest Speng316]

the thing that i tinker most of the time,(probably unnessacarily) but my mates alays dig me for it yet i passionate on the topic is the players condition at half time and througout the second half. If a player drops below 75% i look to bring him off regardless of his performance. Is this a good thing or a bad thing?!

[Cleon]

Originally posted by Saumyajit:

Maybe a couple of guys can be put on high CF towards the end of the match when chasing a game...

Aye its excellent using CF sparingly throughout a match, rather than constantly.

What are rough guidelines regarding CF levels?

Thats really upto you, there is no set in stone formula.

bean feast and rashdi1 mentioned ‘low CF’ , ‘minimum CF’, ‘minimal amounts of CF’ which I understand as really low CF levels (1-5). Have I got it right?

I try not to have less than 5, as any less and players seem to stand still on the ball at times.

I have quite negative experience with very low CF. Last weekend I tried to implement one of dowloaded tactics, and I was wondering why my defenders keep kicking ball upfield or putting it in stands all the time. I believe the reason was CF=1 and Mentality=1 As a result my defenders had ~25% passing rate which IMHO is not acceptable.

Id say it was more the passing style rather than mentality, if mentality was 1 then they would have tend to pass it back instea dof upfield in my expereince.

This is an intersting thread.

Iam currently in my third season with West Brom (EPL - Feb 09) and I have been in the top 5 all season playing a 4-4-2 wide diamond with a target man and with my AMC in a free role behind.

Since maybe early Dec 08 my results have been worse and I worked this out to be because I was no longer the underdog in every match I played.

So, I tried to change for the matches where I was the underdog by playing more defensive and then later I moved the AMC back and took his free role away.

Now that seemed to work against the big teams but there was still a few games where I was the underdog but the opposition played a flat 4-4-2. This is where I became unstuck because neither tactic worked as my first tactic could often end in a 3-3 thriller and the new one was more likely to produce a 0-3.

Now, I have never totally gotten into the making of my own tactics in previous games but I have become determined in 07 to do so. So my experience isnt great and I could be missing something very simple but iam sure I will get there eventually.

Following the initial post I will be using a scout to report on the next opposition to see if it is something as simple as there not being just two tactics that you need but the basis of a tactic that changes from game to game.

Let me know how you go

the thing that i tinker most of the time,(probably unnessacarily) but my mates alays dig me for it yet i passionate on the topic is the players condition at half time and througout the second half. If a player drops below 75% i look to bring him off regardless of his performance. Is this a good thing or a bad thing?!

A bad thing unless you fully understan condition. If a player as just run a long distance his condition may drop to 56% or something, then a few minutes later he might be back at 90%, so be very careful when subbing them. Make sure they really are tired and not just ran.

[Benoit2]

Originally posted by Cleon:

A bad thing unless you fully understan condition. If a player as just run a long distance his condition may drop to 56% or something, then a few minutes later he might be back at 90%, so be very careful when subbing them. Make sure they really are tired and not just ran.

The only time that happens, is when a player received a knock, but without a green cross. Otherwise they never go down that quickly (without receiving a knock), let alone ever go up.

[Cleon]

Originally posted by Benoit2:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

A bad thing unless you fully understan condition. If a player as just run a long distance his condition may drop to 56% or something, then a few minutes later he might be back at 90%, so be very careful when subbing them. Make sure they really are tired and not just ran.

The only time that happens, is when a player received a knock, but without a green cross. Otherwise they never go down that quickly (without receiving a knock), let alone ever go up. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The 56% was an example

If your fullbacks run the lenght of the pitch, then it does go down quite a bit for a while.

[Rashidi]

Personally I don't have anyone in my team with a mentality of less than 6 or a CF of less than 6 either..when I refer to low levels of Mentality and CF those are the lowest numbers I look at.

[Guest]

great post , but i have two questions with tactics i need help with. how do i stop my players from making poor clearances every game i have atleast 3 bad clearances which give great chances to opp. the other is no matter how deep i play the def line the opp get in behind. for example i was newcastle and crouch frommliverpool was always in behind my def. and they had a def mentality of4 and def line set as 2. please help.

Originally posted by Cleon:

Tactic tweaking is probably the most important thing on the game in terms of tactics and is the main reason why so many people feel their tactic is inconsistent. Its not a simple task tweaking, it is very complex as you need to understand what to change, when to change it and what it actually changes. In this thread I hope we can give you a better understanding and generate a decent discussion about one of the most troubled areas of FM for many users. Not every bit of info will be available from the off, this is more like a work in progress and can always be expanded on. It might also be worth noting that people do things differently and just because one particular person does something a particular way, it doesn't make it a rule and mean it will always work.. These are just peoples ways of doing things and just to give you a better insight of the things you can try.

Hopefully further in the article, I will be able to show you an example match taken from one of my saved games of what I tweaked and what the results where. But this might take a little bit of time as its quite a task writing it all down, but more importantly getting a game where I need to tweak several things. I might be best starting a new game for this actually, but its something I hope to have done at some stage anyway.

Often wonder what I mean when I say tweak to suit your needs? Then read on...

Let's start off by having a look at what determines you need to tweak.

The Basics

Before A Game

Tempo

Mentality

Defensive Line

Man Marking

Counter Attacking

Passing

In Game

You go a goal behind

Opposition getting too much space

A forced injury

A substitution

You see something worrying

Your style just isn't working

These are the most common things I look out for, and is one of the main factors before I tweak something. If something is working and my tactic is doing what I think is good, then I won't change anything. I don't tweak just for the sake of it, I only tweak if its needed. If I am being really dominant in a game, its very rare that I ever change anything, after all I am being dominant. So I must be doing something right?

Before you play your next fixture its quite possible to tweak a few things here and there, before you enter the game to give you what should be a slight advantage hopefully. How I determine what I tweak before a game depends on my scout report on the next opposition says. Most of it is really common knowledge and nothing no-one shouldn't be able to work out by reading what it says. Its nothing too complex or anything and in most cases, really easy to determine what needs to be done. For example my next game is against Newcastle and my scout said ' Newcastle play a defensive 442 and like a quick direct style to hit teams on the break'. Now this tells me I can play quite attacking against them, as they tend to sit deep and hit me on the counter attack. So as long as I don't over commit on the attacking front, I should have quite a few shots if I can break them down. Another thing I can do is play a short slow tempo game and try and limit the possession Newcastle have, because they play on the counter and rather direct, I should dominate possession in this game as at times they will give the ball away. So by playing short and slow I will be making them play a style which does not suit them at this time.

I will probably drop my defensive line slightly too, as i know they got fast strikers just by looking at their probable line up. So I don't want my defence to play too high or they might get caught out here, especially as my defenders lack pace. As you can see, I can change quite a few things here, it might seem a lot of messing about, but really its not. All this should take no longer than 30 seconds to change, it sounds harder than it actually is. Newcastle line up against me defensive as I am one of the better sides in the league now, but you get the drift about what I mean with scout reports hopefully? One more thing I should add, is that if my defenders have good man marking attributes then it might be worth while man marking their fast striker who is likely to cause me trouble, I find this helps keep them at bay most games.

-------

Thats all I've done so far, hopefully I will have the 2nd part done around the new year time and it will contain the in game tweaking as well. I would have not posted this yet, if it wasn't for me formatting my PC later today. So please bear this in mind, and remember that its a progression thread and not an instant over night help one.

[Bademesteren]

Great thread!

I'm looking forward to the 2nd part and I hope that you will explain a lot more about what the scoutingreports information means and what to chance bevause of the report.

[Guest]

I need help with my scout reports. I manage newcastle and my scout says he hasn't seen them play how do i change this , i've managed liverpool asswell with the same results , i can't just predict what to change in my tactics

Originally posted by Cleon:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I wouldn't say I struggle after winning the Champions League with Swansea, but I would say still that the scout report is next to useless. You say it works for you, but that's just because you have a good tactic that works, not because of what the innacurate scout report states.

No chance is it my tactic im in a LLM game and creting a new tactic, its because they give you valuable info of what to change.

Like I said already, it's one of those superficial gimmicks in FM that lacks practicality of purpose; it just feels good that it's there, but it soon gets old when you are told that you should play an anchor man because of a winger every week

I don't get the same scout reports, dunno why but I don't.

If it allows you to enjoy the game better, then fair enough, but it's definitely one of those placebo concepts that are pretty frequent throughout FM.

I disagree, but illll not go on about it. They are very usful imo and people shouldn't disregard them as a useless feature, a lot can be changed based on this report alone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Luketa]

Originally posted by Cleon:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by UNITED!!!!!:

im sorry to nag but despite what you may feel cleon people do have a difficulty in understanding the scout reports and people like myself would be very grateful if you were to pass on some information regarding scout reports and how they work because you can't expect everybody to be as tactically astute as you are!

Just because you are a tactical genius and as you yourself have said earlier on have extensive knowledge of the game doesn't mean we all have. in this forum most people such as myself make posts to learn from tacticians like you and i feel it is a bit pointless to simply suggest that the clueless fools like me should just teach ourself when all we want is some help to improve our results!

once again i am sorry to complain but i just wanted to let you know

And thats fine, but im not gonna sit here and do guides 24/7 for people. Believe it or not I have a life too and have important things to do at times.

FM is one of them games, the more you put in the more you eventually get out. I'm not gonna simplyfy everything, I simply do not have the time to do so. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Cleon, with the tons of posts you made and the amount of lines in them, I am sure you could write a very large guide or something, don´t you?

[Saumyajit]

I gues the scout reports do not depend on the scout, I had 2 of them doing it, one with tactical awareness below 10 and the other above 16, they gave me the exact same report. So maybe it is not required to employ a good scout for these reports, anyone would do.

[bean feast]

Another Rule worth thinking about

I think so many people get caught up in tactics that they can forget about the actual ability of their players. Even a fine manager like Alan Curbishley couldn't get a team of pretentious quitters like say, West Ham, out of the relegation mire

I have always believed that ability is paramount and tactics are second. IMO, tactics are implemented to get the MOST out of your players. Of course, if you are not tactically sound, then your decisions could have a detrimental effect on your team, and actually LIMIT the potential of your players. This is very bad. If you play a very basic 4-4-2 with any team in the Premiership I would 'guess' that you would finish very close to winning it with Chelsea, and very close to getting relegated if you were Charlton.

There are absolutely exceptions to the rule of course. Cleon romped the Premier League with the Blades, and the only rational explanation I can come up with is that he found the 'Golden Formula' for that specific set of players. He did actually improve his team considerably though, and I doubt he could have won it with the original staff at his disposal

There is ALWAYS a reason for why you are succeeding and why you are not. The good managers can see this. Yes, it takes a lot of fine tuning, and yes it takes a lot of effort (just ask my wife), but it's very rewarding.

After I pick a team and a formation I have a very clear idea of how I want to play. I see it in real life terms and so I then try and replicate it. This is where the friendlies come in. I watch the whole match for at least 2 or 3 games. I don't play against great opposition, but I can tell if so and so is too high up the pitch, or I'm going to have problems here or there. After each game there is something that I can fine tune, change, and implement in the proceeding match until I gradually narrow it down to a winning formula. If you are a team of talentless engines, play a high tempo closing down, defensive system. If you are a team of ingenious quitters, don't press too much and play a flair game.

The next time you are battling at the depths with Bognor Regis and you just can't seem to win, don't despair at the game or your tactics, chances are, you're players are just not good enough.

[Cleon]

Originally posted by Luketa:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by UNITED!!!!!:

im sorry to nag but despite what you may feel cleon people do have a difficulty in understanding the scout reports and people like myself would be very grateful if you were to pass on some information regarding scout reports and how they work because you can't expect everybody to be as tactically astute as you are!

Just because you are a tactical genius and as you yourself have said earlier on have extensive knowledge of the game doesn't mean we all have. in this forum most people such as myself make posts to learn from tacticians like you and i feel it is a bit pointless to simply suggest that the clueless fools like me should just teach ourself when all we want is some help to improve our results!

once again i am sorry to complain but i just wanted to let you know

And thats fine, but im not gonna sit here and do guides 24/7 for people. Believe it or not I have a life too and have important things to do at times.

FM is one of them games, the more you put in the more you eventually get out. I'm not gonna simplyfy everything, I simply do not have the time to do so. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Cleon, with the tons of posts you made and the amount of lines in them, I am sure you could write a very large guide or something, don´t you? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not a priority for me.

[Cleon]

There are absolutely exceptions to the rule of course. Cleon romped the Premier League with the Blades, and the only rational explanation I can come up with is that he found the 'Golden Formula' for that specific set of players. He did actually improve his team considerably though, and I doubt he could have won it with the original staff at his disposal

I brought 1 player in better than I already had, the rest where no better than the current squad. So I fail to see how I bettered my squad considerably. Plus the fact they have to gel as a down effect on the side too dont forget. I don't mean to be big headed or anything but I could take most sides to the title in the first season in any league, even if I play with the normal squad and don't buy anyone.

It has nothing to do with me playing to my players stenghts either because I didn't, this makes the tactic too imbalanced unless you have equal players which I didn't. The reason I win is because I know how to beat the AI systems and counter almost everything they throw at me. I do this by playing the best I can as a unit and not individually.

[ronaldow]

h ithere Cleon bud

Pay no attention to the haters out there...u do ur ting bro...u doin well!!

Anyhow was wondering when u will release the second part of your guide cos u said:

"Thats all I've done so far, hopefully I will have the 2nd part done around the new year time and it will contain the in game tweaking as well. I would have not posted this yet, if it wasn't for me formatting my PC later today. So please bear this in mind, and remember that its a progression thread and not an instant over night help one."

Would love to know when u actually tweak dem settings in and in what situations ie. what you tend to do if you take a 1-0 lead or do u do something differnet if you take a 2-0 lead....alkso do you always change a little bit in your tactic JUST before a match to keep computer on its toes eg. chnage attack menta;lity for team up or down a notch or two etc??

Cheers pal

Ur a legend!!

[bean feast]

Cleon. How do you view your matches then mate? Do you watch the full game? I often like to have a 'slow' game when I'm my beloved Everton where I pay attention to every minute detail, and I have a 'faster' game in another league. Trying to get Juventus back to Serie A (it's a wonderful team to experiment with). I have noticed a definite improvement in my performance whilst watching games. The reason I ask is because you mention that you are constantly dynamic with your tactical decisions. You must witness a change in your opponents set up to be able to counter them. How do you see this change? Or...do you have a few different tactics that you change too if you are losing possession, winning, losing, getting slaughtered?

[Cleon]

I just view highlights now days, im pretty confident I done things to counter the AI before I start a game. I then look at the stats after 10 mins while the game is paused, and see if I notice anything wrong etc. I do this every 10-15 mins its quicker than watching a game. Then I change my tempo etc based on my shots at goal, posession stats etc.

if you watch many games, after a while it becomes 2nd nature and you will know something wrong is gonna hapen before it does.

[Cleon]

Originally posted by ronaldow:

h ithere Cleon bud

Pay no attention to the haters out there...u do ur ting bro...u doin well!!

Anyhow was wondering when u will release the second part of your guide cos u said:

"Thats all I've done so far, hopefully I will have the 2nd part done around the new year time and it will contain the in game tweaking as well. I would have not posted this yet, if it wasn't for me formatting my PC later today. So please bear this in mind, and remember that its a progression thread and not an instant over night help one."

Would love to know when u actually tweak dem settings in and in what situations ie. what you tend to do if you take a 1-0 lead or do u do something differnet if you take a 2-0 lead....alkso do you always change a little bit in your tactic JUST before a match to keep computer on its toes eg. chnage attack menta;lity for team up or down a notch or two etc??

Cheers pal

Ur a legend!!

When I get time, bit busy at the min though sadly

[Bademesteren]

Originally posted by Bademesteren:

Great thread!

I'm looking forward to the 2nd part and I hope that you will explain a lot more about what the scoutingreports information means and what to change because of the report.

Here's an examble.

----------------------------------

Next opponent: Chelsea

Scout says: Chelsea play low tempo 4-1-3-2 and look to get the ball into wide positions whenever possible.

likes to play posession footbal, get ball down and play it. the benefit from a strong defence.

Aware of the creative midfield.Their forwards lack pace, but our defence should be warned against complacency.

Chelsea look to use the aerial power of Ballack and we should look to cut off the supply to him.

-------------------------------------

I do not know how to "understand" these informations and therefore which changes to make in my tactic.

[lupinettiv]

Cleon, how do you adjust for wet weather? On one the discissions you said something sounded like it was weather related. I noticed that when it's wet or raining I have a few injuries plus I get scored on more than when it's dry. Could you give a few pointers as to how to adjust for wet weather? Thanks

[Guest]

Imust say cleon i've known you to be the man for this game when help is needed . but i'm disappointed you can't reply to me in regards to my problems .

Originally posted by Cleon:

I just view highlights now days, im pretty confident I done things to counter the AI before I start a game. I then look at the stats after 10 mins while the game is paused, and see if I notice anything wrong etc. I do this every 10-15 mins its quicker than watching a game. Then I change my tempo etc based on my shots at goal, posession stats etc.

if you watch many games, after a while it becomes 2nd nature and you will know something wrong is gonna hapen before it does.

[Cleon]

Originally posted by hscott:

Imust say cleon i've known you to be the man for this game when help is needed . but i'm disappointed you can't reply to me in regards to my problems .

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

I just view highlights now days, im pretty confident I done things to counter the AI before I start a game. I then look at the stats after 10 mins while the game is paused, and see if I notice anything wrong etc. I do this every 10-15 mins its quicker than watching a game. Then I change my tempo etc based on my shots at goal, posession stats etc.

if you watch many games, after a while it becomes 2nd nature and you will know something wrong is gonna hapen before it does.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not on call out you know.

I never know what you are on about, as you always quote random stuff

Cleon, how do you adjust for wet weather? On one the discissions you said something sounded like it was weather related. I noticed that when it's wet or raining I have a few injuries plus I get scored on more than when it's dry. Could you give a few pointers as to how to adjust for wet weather? Thanks

Don't play a slow build up passing game, play more direct.

[Cleon]

Originally posted by Bademesteren:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bademesteren:

Great thread!

I'm looking forward to the 2nd part and I hope that you will explain a lot more about what the scoutingreports information means and what to change because of the report.

Here's an examble.

----------------------------------

Next opponent: Chelsea

Scout says: Chelsea play low tempo 4-1-3-2 and look to get the ball into wide positions whenever possible.

likes to play posession footbal, get ball down and play it. the benefit from a strong defence.

Aware of the creative midfield.Their forwards lack pace, but our defence should be warned against complacency.

Chelsea look to use the aerial power of Ballack and we should look to cut off the supply to him.

-------------------------------------

I do not know how to "understand" these informations and therefore which changes to make in my tactic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It means they play a slow passing game and play really wide and bllack holds the ball up.

[Joor]

Originally posted by Cleon:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bademesteren:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bademesteren:

Great thread!

I'm looking forward to the 2nd part and I hope that you will explain a lot more about what the scoutingreports information means and what to change because of the report.

Here's an examble.

----------------------------------

Next opponent: Chelsea

Scout says: Chelsea play low tempo 4-1-3-2 and look to get the ball into wide positions whenever possible.

likes to play posession footbal, get ball down and play it. the benefit from a strong defence.

Aware of the creative midfield.Their forwards lack pace, but our defence should be warned against complacency.

Chelsea look to use the aerial power of Ballack and we should look to cut off the supply to him.

-------------------------------------

I do not know how to "understand" these informations and therefore which changes to make in my tactic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It means they play a slow passing game and play really wide and bllack holds the ball up. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think it means hes he playmaker..a good option will be to tight mark him with hard tackles

[Cleon]

Originally posted by Joor:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bademesteren:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bademesteren:

Great thread!

I'm looking forward to the 2nd part and I hope that you will explain a lot more about what the scoutingreports information means and what to change because of the report.

Here's an examble.

----------------------------------

Next opponent: Chelsea

Scout says: Chelsea play low tempo 4-1-3-2 and look to get the ball into wide positions whenever possible.

likes to play posession footbal, get ball down and play it. the benefit from a strong defence.

Aware of the creative midfield.Their forwards lack pace, but our defence should be warned against complacency.

Chelsea look to use the aerial power of Ballack and we should look to cut off the supply to him.

-------------------------------------

I do not know how to "understand" these informations and therefore which changes to make in my tactic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It means they play a slow passing game and play really wide and bllack holds the ball up. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think it means hes he playmaker..a good option will be to tight mark him with hard tackles </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its not a playmaker, the wording states playmaker if they use one. A playmaker prefers to have the ball at their feet rather than use the arial ability. Ballack seems to act as a targetman in my games for Chelsea.

[lupinettiv]

Cleon, thanks for your response. I'll give a try.

[trundle]

Hi Cleon. Firstly, thanks for spending so much time posting your findings on tactics. Much appreciated. As I've only found out this place existed recently - I've been living in pretty much blissful tactical ignorance.

I only usually have one set tactic which I use for every game and this has been really successful for me - I understand (I think!) most of the reasons behind tweaking - why and how you should do it - but have never found that my original tactic needs much changing in the first place (unless something goes drastically wrong i.e. a sending off). Anyway, I guess my convoluted point is that I have never noticed that I am need of several different tactics (especially for home and away games). Is this just sheer dumb luck or should I live on with my one tactic if it is working?

Apologies if this does not make a lot of sense.

Cheers.