Need help recreating Arteta's Arsenal tactics

[silentventus]

Hello, guys.

I've been trying to take my tactic creation up another level in terms of understanding the match engine & to do so I'm trying to emulate real life tactics, I have already received a lot of valuable help on this forum so hopefully that can continues and many thanks.   

The problem I have is sort of translating what I read online or videos I watch into FM since its not always a 1:1 of what we see irl. Especially the part I struggle on is the team instructions and sometimes player roles (but not as much.)

I have just booted up a quick save and tried to see what I could interpret into the game and this is what I have so far and a few thoughts to go with it.

• I'm a bit torn on the wingers, I know they both hold width but I they also come inside with the ball so maybe IW(s) for Saka and IF(a) for Martinelli with stay wider instruction?
• Kai Havertz from what I have seen in recent games as a 9 roams quite a bit, holds up play and also gets in behind so I have gone with CF(a)
• I'm going off the Midfield trio that has played in recent games with the return of Partey which I enjoy quite a bit, some people might not agree with Odegaard role but I honestly think this role suits him well with the fact that he has started to drop deeper sometimes to pick up the ball but we may lack penetration who knows...
•  With our backline we look to create a 3-2 build up shape with Zinny or Timber inverting. But I'm again torn on the Ben White role as this guy does everything invert, 3rd CB and overlaps Saka. 

 

The only thing I can't really translate well are the team instructions, but is there anything you would change or tweak? Also if anyone else has tried to recreate his system feel free to share it here, i’m always looking for ideas

Edited April 29 by silentventus
adding extra info

[coach vahid]

 

 

[w_x]

5 hours ago, silentventus said:

Hello, guys.

I've been trying to take my tactic creation up another level in terms of understanding the match engine & to do so I'm trying to emulate real life tactics, I have already received a lot of valuable help on this forum so hopefully that can continues and many thanks.   

The problem I have is sort of translating what I read online or videos I watch into FM since its not always a 1:1 of what we see irl. Especially the part I struggle on is the team instructions and sometimes player roles (but not as much.)

I have just booted up a quick save and tried to see what I could interpret into the game and this is what I have so far and a few thoughts to go with it.

• I'm a bit torn on the wingers, I know they both hold width but I they also come inside with the ball so maybe IW(s) for Saka and IF(a) for Martinelli with stay wider instruction?
• Kai Havertz from what I have seen in recent games as a 9 roams quite a bit, holds up play and also gets in behind so I have gone with CF(a)
• I'm going off the Midfield trio that has played in recent games with the return of Partey which I enjoy quite a bit, some people might not agree with Odegaard role but I honestly think this role suits him well with the fact that he has started to drop deeper sometimes to pick up the ball but we may lack penetration who knows...
•  With our backline we look to create a 3-2 build up shape with Zinny or Timber inverting. But I'm again torn on the Ben White role as this guy does everything invert, 3rd CB and overlaps Saka. 

 

The only thing I can't really translate well are the team instructions, but is there anything you would change or tweak? Also if anyone else has tried to recreate his system feel free to share it here, i’m always looking for ideas

Potentially full back on support with sit narrower and maybe hold position for the Ben White role. Will sit narrower but will still get forward and overlap

[silentventus]

5 hours ago, coach vahid said:

 

 

Thank you for linking this, definitely gonna have a love through and see what ideas I can come up with from it. 

[silentventus]

3 hours ago, w_x said:

Potentially full back on support with sit narrower and maybe hold position for the Ben White role. Will sit narrower but will still get forward and overlap

I was also thinking that, I feel like the FB(s) kinda reflects what he does irl, but I just wasn’t too sure will test it out though, thank you. 

[bosque]

In my opinion Arsenal plays 442 both in and out of possession. Odegaard is always on the right and Havertz on the left. The same with the doble pivot, I'm always watching Rice on the left and Partey on the right. And as formation in FM is the defensive shape of the team I would field them in a 442. 424 or an offset 4411/4231 with Odegaard in the AMCR position and Havertz in the STCL.

[Gilberto Silva]

My interpretation:

The Ben White is the most difficult to mirror. I would try an IFB with run wide with the ball as well as underlap right in the TI's - not sure if this would work or not though, my idea would be to get him to over and underlap.

LB probably add sit narrower as a PI.

Could put Havertz as a DLF but I think having both him and Odegaard in the AM slots makes more sense, perhaps add to mark the opposition CB's?

Note, this is an interpretation if Jorginho/Partey + Rice both start, otherwise it would look a bit different. 

Edited May 1 by Gilberto Silva

[silentventus]

On 29/04/2024 at 21:02, bosque said:

In my opinion Arsenal plays 442 both in and out of possession. Odegaard is always on the right and Havertz on the left. The same with the doble pivot, I'm always watching Rice on the left and Partey on the right. And as formation in FM is the defensive shape of the team I would field them in a 442. 424 or an offset 4411/4231 with Odegaard in the AMCR position and Havertz in the STCL.

This is very true tbh, I think in their last game against Spurs there was a moment where I seen Rice and Partey in a double pivot with Odegaard high and only in settled possession would Rice push up high, it’s been Arsenal’s big game set up I feel like. 

I don’t know, I also feel like it suits some of the profiles a lot better in  FM like ESR and Fabio Vieira, I like my CMs in a 4-3-3 to have decent tackling and aggression which Odegaard doesn’t have. 

Thank you for the advice. 

 

Edited May 1 by silentventus

[silentventus]

2 hours ago, Gilberto Silva said:

My interpretation:

The Ben White is the most difficult to mirror. I would try an IFB with run wide with the ball as well as underlap right in the TI's - not sure if this would work or not though, my idea would be to get him to over and underlap.

LB probably add sit narrower as a PI.

Could put Havertz as a DLF but I think having both him and Odegaard in the AM slots makes more sense, perhaps add to mark the opposition CB's?

Note, this is an interpretation if Jorginho/Partey + Rice both start, otherwise it would look a bit different. 

A striker less version, now that’s something I haven’t thought about and is actually pretty interesting. How has this tactic been getting on for you? 

[julle17]

Personally i think it should look something like this.
4-2-3-1 chosen purely because it defends mostly in a 4-4-2 from my experience. 
The volante on attack makes him take up that high left halfspace position, which then pushes the am(ødegaard) over towards saka which is what we see irl. 
I've given the Lcb stay wider, to try and mimick the 3-2 positioning.
Both IFs have been told to stay wider
Also the frontline all have roam, which is not necessarily accurate in all games, i just think thats when Arsenal look the most dangerous whenever the frontline roam and rotate with each other.
I've given the rb run wide with ball and cross from byline, in the hope it might make him a bit more likely to overlap, alongside the overlap right instruction.

In terms of the instructions i think many of them is self explanatory. Will say though, 'get stuck in' is chosen purely for Artetas love for duels, so thought it was fitting.

Scored a goal against Forest that shows the 3-2-5 structure that we are looking for perfectly.

 

 

[Gilberto Silva]

17 hours ago, silentventus said:

A striker less version, now that’s something I haven’t thought about and is actually pretty interesting. How has this tactic been getting on for you? 

Haven’t had much chance to test it yet - but will let you know.

[NineCloudNine]

One thing often overlooked in specific tactical recreations like this is PPMs.

A FB with ‘gets forward whenever possible’ will play differently to one without, whatever role they are given.

Same with a W with ‘cuts inside’, who will play differently to one without.

I find PPMs really powerful in recreating particular styles, especially when the style in question is IRL very dependent on particular players, which I think is true of Arteta’s Arsenal (but perhaps less so of Guardiola’s Man City).

[Dr Naysay]

9 minutes ago, NineCloudNine said:

One thing often overlooked in specific tactical recreations like this is PPMs.

A FB with ‘gets forward whenever possible’ will play differently to one without, whatever role they are given.

Same with a W with ‘cuts inside’, who will play differently to one without.

I find PPMs really powerful in recreating particular styles, especially when the style in question is IRL very dependent on particular players, which I think is true of Arteta’s Arsenal (but perhaps less so of Guardiola’s Man City).

Not sure if you mean the Ben White role here but the IFB will still on occasion make that run anyway but if they have that PPM they really add a lot to a tactic when you have your foot on the neck of the opposition and want to give them something extra to think about.

Really good point tbh

[NineCloudNine]

11 minutes ago, Dr Naysay said:

Not sure if you mean the Ben White role here but the IFB will still on occasion make that run anyway but if they have that PPM they really add a lot to a tactic when you have your foot on the neck of the opposition and want to give them something extra to think about.

Really good point tbh

That was what I was thinking of. On the face of it having Ben White as an IFB-d doesn’t make sense, given his marauding down the touchline. But if the aim is to have him combine tucking in with overlapping runs then that role combined with a gets forward PPM could he really strong.

On Saka and Martinelli, I think they are best recreated as Wingers with cuts inside PPMs. This will push them higher and wider and cutting in later than an IF role. PPMs like moves into channels and gets into opposition area would also change the way they play.

[bosque]

1 hour ago, NineCloudNine said:

That was what I was thinking of. On the face of it having Ben White as an IFB-d doesn’t make sense, given his marauding down the touchline. But if the aim is to have him combine tucking in with overlapping runs then that role combined with a gets forward PPM could he really strong.

On Saka and Martinelli, I think they are best recreated as Wingers with cuts inside PPMs. This will push them higher and wider and cutting in later than an IF role. PPMs like moves into channels and gets into opposition area would also change the way they play.

Interesting point. What would be the difference between the cuts inside PPM and the cuts inside player instruction?

[Dr Naysay]

4 minutes ago, bosque said:

Interesting point. What would be the difference between the cuts inside PPM and the cuts inside player instruction?

Completely anecdotal from my point of view but I think an actual out and out winger with the cuts inside PPM means he won't do it every-time. It tends to let the player, especially if he's got great mentals pick whether he's going inside or outside much like some of the more modern wingers.

[NineCloudNine]

37 minutes ago, Dr Naysay said:

Completely anecdotal from my point of view but I think an actual out and out winger with the cuts inside PPM means he won't do it every-time. It tends to let the player, especially if he's got great mentals pick whether he's going inside or outside much like some of the more modern wingers.

I think that’s right and Saka would definitely be one who does both, even if he is (even) more dangerous cutting in onto his left foot.

Edited May 3 by NineCloudNine

[silentventus]

5 hours ago, NineCloudNine said:

One thing often overlooked in specific tactical recreations like this is PPMs.

A FB with ‘gets forward whenever possible’ will play differently to one without, whatever role they are given.

Same with a W with ‘cuts inside’, who will play differently to one without.

I find PPMs really powerful in recreating particular styles, especially when the style in question is IRL very dependent on particular players, which I think is true of Arteta’s Arsenal (but perhaps less so of Guardiola’s Man City).

This is actually a very good point and one thing that I tend to forget about a lot, since player traits are important to look out for in any tactic imo 

[julle17]

So i've been playing around with my version of an Arteta inspired tactic and it looks like this:



The changes aren't all that major, but there were a couple.
The 2 IF-s were changed to a W-s on the left and W-a on the right. This was because our attacks were just too narrow, and i didn't like how the focus play right instruction had us playing. I still wanted Saka to be our most dangerous man hence he's on attack duty on the right, and he performed all right. He got 10 goals and 22 assists in the prem in 33 games. Thought his goal tally would've been higher, but those assist numbers more than made up for it.
Another change was the DM-d into a DM-s. This was because i felt with the volante still being a dm, while going high, and added central cover from the IWB, i felt that i could allow the other dm to be a bit less restricted, especially considering we would still have 3 really strong defenders behind.
The final role change was the keeper, he got defend duty. Why? he just made less stupid passes.

The instructions changed a bit though, i wanted the focus play right shout gone, so out with that. Also i read this thread 

Where some somewhat minimalistic instruction were chosen, and i really liked that idea, so i nabbed it like any good manager does, just steal from people smarter.
I did add prevent short goalkeeper distribution, purely because i think the team defends better with it
I also added get stuck in, for THE FOGGIN DUELS GUYS

Anyhow, here are the results from the first season, with no transfers done.

Nearly managed to win the lot, however lost on pens to Brentford on pens while resting basically the whole starting XI ruined that.
One thing that did annoy me through this season was Havertz got a long term injury early on, so i didn't really get to use him upfront, which i really wanted, but i guess i can just play on.
He did have one major impact though.

When we got the pen in extra time i felt it was needed for another Kai Havertz winner against city in a UCL final.

Also we nearly got to 100 goals in the league with Gabriel Jesus on 18 goals being our most scoring player, resembling quite well how loads of players chip in to Arsenals goal irl.
The defense wasn't half bad either, only conceding 28 goals, which imo is more than acceptable. 

[spen86]

1 hour ago, julle17 said:

So i've been playing around with my version of an Arteta inspired tactic and it looks like this:



The changes aren't all that major, but there were a couple.
The 2 IF-s were changed to a W-s on the left and W-a on the right. This was because our attacks were just too narrow, and i didn't like how the focus play right instruction had us playing. I still wanted Saka to be our most dangerous man hence he's on attack duty on the right, and he performed all right. He got 10 goals and 22 assists in the prem in 33 games. Thought his goal tally would've been higher, but those assist numbers more than made up for it.
Another change was the DM-d into a DM-s. This was because i felt with the volante still being a dm, while going high, and added central cover from the IWB, i felt that i could allow the other dm to be a bit less restricted, especially considering we would still have 3 really strong defenders behind.
The final role change was the keeper, he got defend duty. Why? he just made less stupid passes.

The instructions changed a bit though, i wanted the focus play right shout gone, so out with that. Also i read this thread 

Where some somewhat minimalistic instruction were chosen, and i really liked that idea, so i nabbed it like any good manager does, just steal from people smarter.
I did add prevent short goalkeeper distribution, purely because i think the team defends better with it
I also added get stuck in, for THE FOGGIN DUELS GUYS

Anyhow, here are the results from the first season, with no transfers done.

Nearly managed to win the lot, however lost on pens to Brentford on pens while resting basically the whole starting XI ruined that.
One thing that did annoy me through this season was Havertz got a long term injury early on, so i didn't really get to use him upfront, which i really wanted, but i guess i can just play on.
He did have one major impact though.

When we got the pen in extra time i felt it was needed for another Kai Havertz winner against city in a UCL final.

Also we nearly got to 100 goals in the league with Gabriel Jesus on 18 goals being our most scoring player, resembling quite well how loads of players chip in to Arsenals goal irl.
The defense wasn't half bad either, only conceding 28 goals, which imo is more than acceptable. 

Very nice results! Have you kept the player instructions the same or has anything changed? Gunna try it in the championship with my Bury team.

[bababooey]

6 hours ago, julle17 said:

So i've been playing around with my version of an Arteta inspired tactic and it looks like this:



The changes aren't all that major, but there were a couple.
The 2 IF-s were changed to a W-s on the left and W-a on the right. This was because our attacks were just too narrow, and i didn't like how the focus play right instruction had us playing. I still wanted Saka to be our most dangerous man hence he's on attack duty on the right, and he performed all right. He got 10 goals and 22 assists in the prem in 33 games. Thought his goal tally would've been higher, but those assist numbers more than made up for it.
Another change was the DM-d into a DM-s. This was because i felt with the volante still being a dm, while going high, and added central cover from the IWB, i felt that i could allow the other dm to be a bit less restricted, especially considering we would still have 3 really strong defenders behind.
The final role change was the keeper, he got defend duty. Why? he just made less stupid passes.

The instructions changed a bit though, i wanted the focus play right shout gone, so out with that. Also i read this thread 

Where some somewhat minimalistic instruction were chosen, and i really liked that idea, so i nabbed it like any good manager does, just steal from people smarter.
I did add prevent short goalkeeper distribution, purely because i think the team defends better with it
I also added get stuck in, for THE FOGGIN DUELS GUYS

Anyhow, here are the results from the first season, with no transfers done.

Nearly managed to win the lot, however lost on pens to Brentford on pens while resting basically the whole starting XI ruined that.
One thing that did annoy me through this season was Havertz got a long term injury early on, so i didn't really get to use him upfront, which i really wanted, but i guess i can just play on.
He did have one major impact though.

When we got the pen in extra time i felt it was needed for another Kai Havertz winner against city in a UCL final.

Also we nearly got to 100 goals in the league with Gabriel Jesus on 18 goals being our most scoring player, resembling quite well how loads of players chip in to Arsenals goal irl.
The defense wasn't half bad either, only conceding 28 goals, which imo is more than acceptable. 

 

Well done!

[julle17]

12 hours ago, spen86 said:

Very nice results! Have you kept the player instructions the same or has anything changed? Gunna try it in the championship with my Bury team.

I think the only PI added was take more risks to the right back, wanted him to try the same kind of balls forwards that the BPDs were trying