julle17

Could you perhaps show some examples? I would like to see how the situation looks when it happens

Agreed, i've looked through about 15 games of passing maps now, and i found 4 other instances of 'crosses'(counted as a pass) from those areas, and they were all from a winger going byline and going back to a fullback. I even watched through games, seeing the same stuff just where the winger passes to the cm in the same kind of area, but they just never crossed it from there.

Honestly could be, i've watched back a couple games and found this instance. Here Tomiyasu crosses backpost to Saka from the left half-space, but in the analysis it is counted as a pass. This is exactly what i'm looking for, now if it's not considered a cross, the question is how to make them do these kinds of passes more often. a05f462fcdbd1e16f4d002793f7d9090.mp4 As you can see here it is shown under passes, but not in the crosses section

I have tried 20+ games of both left and right, doesn't seem to make any difference

So i have played through more than a season, and looked at every cross map from my team, and there just haven't had a cross from the half-space. I'm not going to claim they never happen, they just seem in my opinion far too rare. This is just an example of a cross map from one of my games, but is a very good representation of how they look in general. What i'm wondering is if anyone have a cross map where they see crosses from the marked areas below?

Thanks for the replies fellas. What i will say i've played about 15 games, and i'm yet to see any real halfspace cross, not just from my rcm, that i want to do it, but in general from any player. I'm clearly doing something wrong. Also with the stay wider suggestion, that is hardcoded in the mezzala, so shouldn't be an issue. I have also tried with a different role just without the stay wider. And honestly my rcm takes up roughly the same positions, but just doesn't cross it from the right half space

So these are the cross maps from the last 3 games where i removed the early cross team instruction and lowered the tempo. I won't lie i'm just really confused as to how to achieve this

Well that was what i was thinking, but my players just never do them. I've tried loads of different combinations of instructions to make it happen, whether it's leave the role as default, tell it cross more, apply the early cross team instruction, my players just refuse to cross from the half space. These are my cross maps for my last 3 games, and the one from 10 that looks like the right position, didn't actually seem like a cross when watching it back, was more of a through ball, not sure why it counted as a cross. This is what i've been trying recently, the Mez on support has cross more often instruction aswell.

So one thing in football that I enjoy watching in real life is half space crosses, especially when De Bruyne does them, but both Kimmich and Trent are the two other players I see do them extremely well. This is an example of the kind of scenario I'm talking about. De Bruyne in the right half space putting in a back post cross, with both Gündogan and even someone else completely unmarked lurking even further backpost, just out of the image So i was wondering if anyone had a way to get a specific player to do them often in FM. Curious to hear any ideas. Thanks

I understand the preference of setting up a system in a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 or anything of that ilk, and have that transform in game to 3-2-5 and 2-3-5 like pep, arteta and many others do in real life. I also really want that to work, and while i have had some succes getting the ingame movement i want along with good results, the closest representation i have been able to get of what i wanted was just to simply put that formation i wanted in the tactics creator. I wanted us to attack in 3-2-5, so the formation i chose to go with was this. I've elected to sacrifice my off ball structure being how i would have wanted it to be the most, to get the exact offensive movement i was looking for. Not saying you cant try it the other way, just another option to consider.

I don't see why you wouldn't be able to do it first season with any prem team. Obviously depends on what you expect to achieve. Should be able to create a tactic based on the ideas and do well with anyone i'd think honestly

I personally don't think it's possible to get it faithful to what Pep or Arteta do irl. If the goal is to just get the shape though. I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to achieve the right shape from a 3-4-2-1 or 3-4-3 formation

Gk: nothing Rb: sit narrower Rcb: nothing Lcb: stay wider LB: nothing Dmr: nothing Dml: nothing Amr: nothing Amcr: Get further forward, Move into channels Aml: Stay wider Stcl: nothing Personally the defensive solidity of the double pivot, is worth it in exchange of trying to have a more faithful replication like you and have the Xhaka role in Lcm. I have given a bit thought to trying the wide players in ML and MR to see how it influences the play in terms of keeping width longer. Might give it a spin, could maybe also make it even more solid defensively.

So i have been playing around for the last bit of time in FM trying to recreate Arsenals tactic. Now my attempt isn't a faithful attempt to try and really get it from real life into FM. I thought of my attempt more as what generel dynamics happen when Arsenal play. And then how do i implement some of them, while creating a tactic that will actually perform well in FM. Not saying this is in any way a super tactic or anything, but it did overachieve while producing football resembling some of the things happening irl. So lets start with the shape. Arsenal for the most part defend in a 4-4-1-1 or 4-4-2 shape, from what i've seen. So i settled on this shape in game: With this shape we often press in 4-2-4, while not exactly what Arsenal do, gave a very effective high press in game, which i think we can all agree Arsenal have in real life. And when defending more settled we often had a hybrid 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 shape, even sometimes because of Xhaka's attack duty, we sometimes ended up defending in a 4-1-4-1. Now with the roles as seen in the picture I had to leave things from irl, that I just found impossible to translate in game, or at least the tactic as whole not becoming much worse as result. The biggest issue in terms of roles are with Xhaka. Getting a replica in terms of movements more alike real life with Zinchenko tucking in and Xhaka being higher, i would've wanted him in LCM with a mezzala role. But from what i tried the tactic as whole just become much worse, despite getting the movement from both players i actually wanted to replicate real life. Instead i settled at what you see above. There was still times though we would achieve the right 3-2-5/2-3-5 structure that Arsenal so often employ when settled in attack. Ben Whites role is another one where i think a FB-s role would suit better in terms of replicating real life, i just found if i did that Saka was often isolated too much, and he wasn't with WB-s, Maybe if i had a more attack minded RB i would use FB-s instead, could be interesting to see at least. One thing i was pleasantly surprised by was the interchanges between my striker and left winger, without any added instructions to encourage it, it just happened naturally that they rotated, resembling what Martinelli and Jesus do irl. Looking at the instructions: These are not necessarily aimed at recreating Arsenal, but more performing in FM. But i would say for the most part there aren't many of them that go against what Arsenal try to do. Run at defence is probably the most questionable one, and if i was to make a faithful recreation i would leave out. I do however often feel that without it, my players often have alot of space in front of them and just doodle around with the ball instead of moving into space, which is what i want from them, hence it's there. Now for the results: We nearly got a domestic treble, which i am pleased with. The Europa League got tanked on purpose because of schedule just being too crammed and the Prem was the priority. Now 90 goals in the league i am very happy with, but what i am most happy with is the 20 goals conceded. That i think is a very very good defensive record. Oh also just to end i use these OIs.

This is how the tactic looks, the three others in the defensive line and the dm have been told to pass shorter, otherwise there's not been touched any passing settings

And i guess what i mean by playing out the back against a side like Liverpool, isn't patient faffing about in my own box, but when they press in the game there's always some man left open, so i guess what i am actually interested in, is if anyone have found a way to get their team to find the spare man consistently, when the opposition press as shown in the video, or just in general against a high pressing side

These were his instructions for that game, and no play out the back instruction was on, just distribute to Centre backs

2023-04-11_01-11-01.mp4 So here is an example of us playing out the back. The result with Saka getting the ball with Robertson in his back is not actually to bad imo, if only he played it back first time to White. We would've alleviated the first pressure, and be in a good position to consolidate in the midfield i think. Now my biggest issue with the clip is the very first few seconds. I would've liked Saliba to make the pass into Ødegaard. who then lays off to White. From what i know it's not possible to specify a pattern like this, but in this instance against Liverpool i would've liked that to happen. For the most part i like the structure, apart from maybe Saka a bit wider.

So I like making tactics and trying them with Arsenal, since i think they have a quite versatile strong squad, while not being incredibly op. While making these tactics, and trying them i obviously end up playing Liverpool and City, who are for me notoriously difficult to play out the back against. I've been able to make tactics that win against them quite often, but not in the particular way i would like. Right now i am working on sort of an Arteta inspired tactic, but i wouldn't call it a replica. But enough of the style is still based on complete control, and i would like to be able to consistently be able to play out against the best sides aswell. So my question is not necessarily about direct tactical changes i should make, but more have any of you been able to achieve in the first season playing out the back against those two sides, without being either Liverpool or City? And if you did, anything you think was reason for it happening

Pretty sure i had every player man marking whoever they are stood near in the picture

Specific player marking, and the lopsided striker and wingback slot are needed imo, if it's a fullback he doesn't sit high enough, and striker towards the side makes sure he sticks to that cb. haven't noticed anything that roles really do differently

I've been trying both in Fm 22 and 23, the closest i've gotten was just full individual player man marking, and honestly against lesser teams it was actually very effective. Here we somewhat achieve the structure, it's a bit awkward because dortmund don't really play out the back, but did get a couple situations looking like this. I would've liked to be able to set up in a regular 4-3-3, but need to lopside it a bit to get the defensive structure to look like this, if the striker is in the middle he doesn't stick properly to the Rcb, and the right fullback needs to be in the wingback slot, or he wont be high enough to properly press the fullback

Sorry i worded that wrong. I meant that i don't think it makes much sense to compare roles just by making a quick tactic and simulating with that role used. Would make more sense to me to make a tactic with the aim of either maximizing Hålands scoring, or find which role within the tactic makes it tick better.

Not gonna lie, without the rest of the tactic used, it's pretty hard to use those numbers for anything.

The only thing I use is just showing the wide cbs and fullbacks onto their opposite foot, so left cb onto his right foot. Just seems to me it makes a difference in pressing, nothing significant, but does make the press better IMO.