how to get better at role selection?

[silentventus]

Just as the question says, how does one get better at selecting roles for their tactics, I hear a lot about balance and selecting roles that suit your players and tactics but I don’t actually know what that looks like or where to begin. I usually just pick roles for my key players then build around that, but I’m never sure if I have selected the right roles or not. So, if anyone has some tips for when it comes to selecting roles to save my clueless ass that would be greatly appreciated  

[Johnny Ace]

Start out using the simple roles, so FB, WB, CD, DM, CM etc 

Roles are just a tag for a bunch of instructions, so they're not the be all and end all

Once you get to know your players and what they are capable of, then start looking to add the more interesting roles 

[crusadertsar]

2 hours ago, silentventus said:

Just as the question says, how does one get better at selecting roles for their tactics, I hear a lot about balance and selecting roles that suit your players and tactics but I don’t actually know what that looks like or where to begin. I usually just pick roles for my key players then build around that, but I’m never sure if I have selected the right roles or not. So, if anyone has some tips for when it comes to selecting roles to save my clueless ass that would be greatly appreciated  

You kind of have to have an idea in mind first. For example in my latest tactic I wanted to do a sort of classic Barcelona 433 from Pep era. So I thought I would like my wingbacks to overlap the wingers that cut inside. So I start there. Since I'm going with a more patient possession style then I would like roles that tend to work with such style. A lot of support roles and ones that are better at keeping the ball and not giving it away via risky passes and crosses. Sometimes it's also the question of duty and not just role. For example, there is a big difference in how Wingback on Attack duty will act versus one on Support duty. I choose Wb (S) simply because he has no "cross from byline" hard-coded. I don't want my wingbacks to just dribble to the byline and cross. I want them to be like little engines to bring the ball up from defence and act more dynamically in how they support the inside forwards. Not just cross incessantly.

Same for my wide attackers. I don't want just pure crossing or overly aggressive attacking (Inside Forwards). Inverted Winger is perfect for the kind of possession system because it's a role with relatively few hardcoded instructions and also not one that will be too selfish. It's a sort of nice hybrid between inside forward and wide playmaker. On support duty it will tuck inside and support the central striker or overlapping wingback. While on Attack duty it will be more of final third threat but not quite as focused on it as inside forward. 

So there you go, this is some of the thinking that you have to do when choosing roles. Start with an idea of how you want your team to play and then take time to read description of each role in the game (it's helpful in how it separately describes what each role does on each duty) to see how it could fit into your theoretical tactic. 

Edited February 13 by crusadertsar

[silentventus]

3 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

Start out using the simple roles, so FB, WB, CD, DM, CM etc 

Roles are just a tag for a bunch of instructions, so they're not the be all and end all

Once you get to know your players and what they are capable of, then start looking to add the more interesting roles 

Thank you for this reply bro, I will definitely look to start out with simpler roles and see what I can cook up. 

[silentventus]

3 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

You kind of have to have an idea in mind first. For example in my latest tactic I wanted to do a sort of classic Barcelona 433 from Pep era. So I thought I would like my wingbacks to overlap the wingers that cut inside. So I start there. Since I'm going with a more patient possession style then I would like roles that tend to work with such style. A lot of support roles and ones that are better at keeping the ball and not giving it away via risky passes and crosses. Sometimes it's also the question of duty and not just role. For example, there is a big difference in how Wingback on Attack duty will act versus one on Support duty. I choose Wb (S) simply because he has no "cross from byline" hard-coded. I don't want my wingbacks to just dribble to the byline and cross. I want them to be like little engines to bring the ball up from defence and act more dynamically in how they support the inside forwards. Not just cross incessantly.

Same for my wide attackers. I don't want just pure crossing or overly aggressive attacking (Inside Forwards). Inverted Winger is perfect for the kind of possession system because it's a role with relatively few hardcoded instructions and also not one that will be too selfish. It's a sort of nice hybrid between inside forward and wide playmaker. On support duty it will tuck inside and support the central striker or overlapping wingback. While on Attack duty it will be more of final third threat but not quite as focused on it as inside forward. 

So there you go, this is some of the thinking that you have to do when choosing roles. Start with an idea of how you want your team to play and then take time to read description of each role in the game (it's helpful in how it separately describes what each role does on each duty) to see how it could fit into your theoretical tactic. 

Thank you for your detailed response, gave me a bit of an idea of what I want to try. I might do a bit of research on Arteta’s 3-2-5 see if I can get anything flowing from there! 

[Bahnzo]

4 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

I choose Wb (S) simply because he has no "cross from byline" hard-coded. I don't want my wingbacks to just dribble to the byline and cross. I want them to be like little engines to bring the ball up from defence and act more dynamically in how they support the inside forwards. Not just cross incessantly.

This is a big peeve of mine. I really wish they would remove that hard coding. 

[Lewish_007]

38 minutes ago, Bahnzo said:

This is a big peeve of mine. I really wish they would remove that hard coding. 

Me too, every now and then I would love to be able to encourage my playmaker to hit long shots! 

[CAE82]

Don’t forget duties (D/S/A) when thinking about roles. The duty determines the mentality/risk (forward runs, forward passes, dribbles).

You want to have players in each strata who can break the lines. For example, with a back 4 all on defend, it may be hard to progress the ball forwards from the back. I like to have (at least) full-back on attack to push forward. Suppose it is DL. I’ll then put the left DM on defend to cover. If I have the AMR on attack, then I’ll keep the DR on defend.

[HanziZoloman]

Hi I want to contribute some of my thoughts as well as the question is so eminent for me too @silentventus

i think it depends on what your players can do first. If someone is playing with a superb team the players usually can perform the tasks demanded of them. It’s trickier when someone likes to play the underdog, like me. 
To check what players can do and cannot do has been a big issue lately for myself. One can check by two methods 

1) individual attributes: I did the mistake to want dynamic running from players who are not mobile enough to do this, like Acc/ Agi/ Pac 7-9. to address the issue it’s good to put players with Acc 16 on attacking, penetrating roles and players with Acc 7 on holding, rarely moving roles and duties e.g.

2) statistics: @Cleon states that every player can perform every tasks but will do so individually. I‘ve seen players overperforming with low stats. Some like to play without attributes or stars, then you rely on stats and watching the game. You can check how many sprints or dribblings or progressive passes or any other stat a player or your team performs. 
this should show what a player can do and what it’s too demanding of him. 
 

the next step maybe could be like you did before, that you‘ll look for standout players, some players who perform a particular task very well, like movement or pace or passing and put them into a position to perform best. Which leads to the next step: imagining ways to support those players and who they will let shine on the pitch. 
If I have a poacher who is not the most mobile but has great anticipation and finishing and maybe some other aspects that suit a player who is waiting idly on his chance to present, then I need players around him which give him space, time and the ball. 
If I have a player who is not that mobile but can place a ball exactly where it should (pinpoint passes) I should place somewhere on the pitch to do so and give him enough support to play there even when pressed. I need to present options around him. 
Imagine a DLP(S) in MC or DM having a FB(S) on his side and a DM/ MC(S) in the other so that he can always play an easy pass to release pressure on him and play the pinpoint when an opportunity arises. Also of course he needs players to pinpoint pass to, e.g. a fast W(A) with acres of space in front of him or a fast AF sitting at the shoulder of a defender.

just recently I had help from @Cloud9 with that. I have a player with outstanding movement but below average mobility and need to find a spot for him to shine. 

 

Edited February 21 by HanziZoloman