How do you play against this formation?

[Hakkapeliitta]

I just secured promotion with my Teneriffa side. I dominated most of the games using 4-2-3-1 formation, but using it against that narrow formation was a doom every time. I did win once stacking central midfield like they did, and it would probably work more often, but is there another way? Are there instruction you could make, without having to copy their strategy? It just looks impenectrable.

[NineCloudNine]

Some thoughts:

- stretch the play as wide as possible to create some space in the middle

- drop to a lower defensive line/pressing line so you don’t just bunch everyone into the same place

- long balls over the top to your striker(s)

- play for set pieces

- drop one or more of your three AMs to CM so they have more space

- use a different striker, that one didn’t work

- shrug and accept that sometimes your team loses, you still won the league and in that game your xG wasn’t much worse

[Hakkapeliitta]

23 minutes ago, NineCloudNine said:

Some thoughts:

- stretch the play as wide as possible to create some space in the middle

- drop to a lower defensive line/pressing line so you don’t just bunch everyone into the same place

- long balls over the top to your striker(s)

- play for set pieces

- drop one or more of your three AMs to CM so they have more space

- use a different striker, that one didn’t work

- shrug and accept that sometimes your team loses, you still won the league and in that game your xG wasn’t much worse

The xG was almost same, because we had a sitter from a corner at injury time. They dominated, like what happened every time I played against similar formation. I only have 2 players in attacking role. I could drop the wingers down, but im not sure what it would do.

[Hakkapeliitta]

This is my standard formation. Im not sure who should I drop and why? Surely the striker could have a different role, if I had a substitute, but im not sure it would make a difference in between of the opposition formation.

[NineCloudNine]

36 minutes ago, Hakkapeliitta said:

I could drop the wingers down, but im not sure what it would do.

Might do nothing! Or it might mean they are getting the ball in some space, rather than being outnumbered. All my suggestions apart from the last one are about trying to find some space for your attackers.

Edited January 8 by NineCloudNine

[ultrAslan]

Sounds like me when I was playing against the big boys! Try to soak up the pressure and hit them on the counter! Let the opponent come to you and let them tire out so you can bang them in the latter stages of the game. For more info read this thread, really helped the way I was playing against some formations and teams:
 

 

[Hakkapeliitta]

4 hours ago, ultrAslan said:

Sounds like me when I was playing against the big boys! Try to soak up the pressure and hit them on the counter! Let the opponent come to you and let them tire out so you can bang them in the latter stages of the game. For more info read this thread, really helped the way I was playing against some formations and teams:
 

 

It should not be the same problem, because we are top of the league, but your thread could be usefull next season when we go up. In reality our team is probably top 6-8 of the league by skill level, but our dmc/cms/amc:s are top quality, so we shouldn't be dominated. I was thinking about a flat midfield like this, since they don't have central midfielders.

Edited January 9 by Hakkapeliitta

[ElJefe4]

Sorry to bump a slightly old thread but this is a formation I've struggled against at times. I've got a save in Portugal with Benfica and our rivals Sporting play this way. 

I typically set up in a classic 433 and often found that they would have a numerical advantage in their build up which led them having high possession numbers. Even if my front 3 and 2 CMs committed to a press that's still only 5 players, meaning they'd often find it quite easy with their 7 (not including their keeper) to keep the ball.

I'm not sure if this was an option for you because I can't see the possession on your screenshots, but it was very frustrating for me as we typically dominate the ball. One option I considered would be to press less/defend deeper in a bid to draw them out, invite the ball into midfield/forwards and win it back there, but I was already losing at this point and felt like I needed a more proactive approach.

So in the end I went for a high man for man press. This is a risk and might not be viable for a full 90 minutes, but it changed the game for me. A few things to consider were:

• Which of my full backs is more offensive/defensive
• Which of my centre backs is more comfortable defending wide areas (typically the more mobile one)
• Which of my centre midfielders is more offensive/defenders

I then instructed them to man mark as follows.

Apologies but I can't actually remember off the top of my head, I may even have switched to a 424 sort of shape so my #6 was closer to the opposition DM. It's a lot riskier. If your defenders aren't great 1v1 you could be in trouble. Either way, the result was a much more aggressive and effective high press.

 

If it's a case of having a lot of the ball but being unable to break down a back 5 then that's a different story, but my issue against this formation was getting the ball in the first place. Thankfully for me, being a possession based side, Sporting continued to try and play out of defence which gave us the opportunity to force high turnovers and counter quickly to score.

 

Edited February 20 by ElJefe4

[HanziZoloman]

@ElJefe4 it’s amazing tinder all those creative solutions to really difficult problems in the game. 

[jcafcwbb]

Go 4-3-1-2.

Your two strikers keeps the back three honest. You have a 4v2 in central midfield - your full backs negate your opponents wing backs. Your narrow three midfielders makes it very difficult for the attacking three to penetrate.

The only slight twist you can make is going 4-3-2-1 if want to really clamp down on the CMs and have your 3 CMs deal with the 3 attackers.

Another way if you do not want that much change is to keep your 4-2-3-1 and move your AML/R in one and a have three attacking AMCs. I have tried it once and it worked okay but that probably needs more testing. The three AMCs keeps  their two DMs busy and makes it difficult for them to attack centrally as there is now five midfielders in the central area.  Having four narrow attacking players also causes problems for their back three,

For all narrow formations from opponents the 4-3-1-2 or narrow 4-2-3-1 works wonders.

Edited February 22 by jcafcwbb

[thizaum]

14 hours ago, jcafcwbb said:

Go 4-3-1-2.

Your two strikers keeps the back three honest. You have a 4v2 in central midfield - your full backs negate your opponents wing backs. Your narrow three midfielders makes it very difficult for the attacking three to penetrate.

The only slight twist you can make is going 4-3-2-1 if want to really clamp down on the CMs and have your 3 CMs deal with the 3 attackers.

Another way if you do not want that much change is to keep your 4-2-3-1 and move your AML/R in one and a have three attacking AMCs. I have tried it once and it worked okay but that probably needs more testing. The three AMCs keeps  their two DMs busy and makes it difficult for them to attack centrally as there is now five midfielders in the central area.  Having four narrow attacking players also causes problems for their back three,

For all narrow formations from opponents the 4-3-1-2 or narrow 4-2-3-1 works wonders.

I agree with this.

And I'd add that you have 2 DMCs doing nothing. Something like a 4-3CM-1-2 or 4-4-2 will keep the numbers more balanced.

 

On the other hand, I've always thought that the discussion about number of strikers vs number of centre backs to be fascinating. I like having 3 CBs and that usually works better against 2 CFs instead of 1 CF. In the end I think it depends on what your AM stratum is doing. Whether the wingers are wingers (thus using the space behind the WBs) or IFs (thus clashing with the WCBs).

In this specific case, what I think would work best would be to have 2 wingers (AM or CM strata), regardless of the number of CFs. Then you need "penetrating" CMs or AMs, and you don't really need a holding DM (a more free DM or a holding CM should work).

Having said that, I'd go with an old school 4-4-2 for this one.

[ArmasJuva]

Using only one DC accompanied with DM did the trick for me back in the previous versions against this formation. If you are willing to alter your formation and taking into account that you are the stronger side.

[DownTheFrank]

On 08/01/2024 at 13:51, Hakkapeliitta said:

I just secured promotion with my Teneriffa side. I dominated most of the games using 4-2-3-1 formation, but using it against that narrow formation was a doom every time. I did win once stacking central midfield like they did, and it would probably work more often, but is there another way? Are there instruction you could make, without having to copy their strategy? It just looks impenectrable.

 

I have a bit of experience with the tactic you are facing and only know how to beat it because that's the tactic i used in a 5 season long almeria save in 23 and how other teams beat me showed me how this tactic can be beaten lol. 

Monchu is a playmaker so you have to consider that mainly. 

This tactic has 7 guys deep and three guys high. 

 

You can stop attacks from this tactic by 

Isolating the guys up top from receiving service ie stopping the playmaker among the dms + the wingbacks - as they will be their only options for ball progression in transition to attack. 

 

so either - 1. stop the "progressors" (dm passers and WBs) from getting the ball to "attackers" 

                    2. Stop attackers from receiving ball regularly from progressors . 

The choice is dependent on what your team is good at or you are comfortable with doing. 

 

Secondly 

One way of Attacking this formation effectively is using the space it gives you. They have 3 guys in your half and 7 in theirs. .

You can use deep progression and buildup to draw their defensive players out because they have a lot of ground to cover and open them up for effective attacks. Your deeper players will have a lot of time and space on the ball because they are giving it to you. 

 

To put this all together, let's assume Monchu is their playmaker. Which he most likely is. 

You can have Your AMC sit on him, and your wingers also sit on the Wbs. And then have your 6 guys at the back recycle and draw them out and playmake from deep.