Oh SI. Such big promises. Touch is a mess :-(

[SimonHoddle]

I hate saying this as people work hard but it’s not the fault of developers it’s the fault of the directors for promising love letters to football and changing nothing.

- graphics are worse lol! The lighting distorts the colour so my spurs team plays in different kits in different views haha.

- age old bugs not fixed. Eg match doesn’t stop at half time

- repetitive ME

- data hub totally inaccurate 

- match analysis 🤔. Last years version was broken. I think this years is too.

to name but a few. 25 can’t come to soon. Big promises haven’t remotely been met. For the record I play on iPhone so ,maybe switch provides better hardware and is more accurate.

 

sorry!

Edited November 15, 2023 by SimonHoddle

[zakbrown96]

@SimonHoddle Can I ask that you report all bugs in FM24 Touch bugs forum weather new or old ones. Bear in mind this is a new game and not the same as Previous versions. Ideally with Examples as well. 

[SimonHoddle]

5 hours ago, zakbrown96 said:

@SimonHoddle Can I ask that you report all bugs in FM24 Touch bugs forum weather new or old ones. Bear in mind this is a new game and not the same as Previous versions. Ideally with Examples as well. 

thank you and I’ll  happily put things like lighting and Analysis in the bug forum @zakbrown96.
 

Match not stopping at half time is a known bug, it’s the same as last year. Can’t give examples without recording it - it’s impossible that SI are unaware of this as it’s been raised multiple times before. It’s clearly unfixable.

I won’t be patronised by putting the entire data hub in the bug reports as it must be something that SI are fully aware of and consciously choose to ignore and deny. Really poor form. The ME isn’t a bug either tbh. It’s just worse than 23. Variety is rare. Players operating to instructions rare and the match is generally a sequence of long shots/ half turn cut insides from the wing with silly shots. Not sure if variety has been cut to improve optimisation, SI would never share such information.

but I have to reiterate it looks worse and plays worse than 23. Only my opinion and sure it’s selling well but I want to love FM and loved everything pre 2018. 
 

 

[BuryBlade]

20 hours ago, zakbrown96 said:

@SimonHoddle Can I ask that you report all bugs in FM24 Touch bugs forum weather new or old ones. Bear in mind this is a new game and not the same as Previous versions. Ideally with Examples as well. 

But bugs that have existed (and been reported) since FMT21 still exist in the game. Hardly ‘not the same as previous versions’

I agree with OP’s comments. The over promises before release, and the under delivered product have made this year worse. Touch has been bad for a while, but I’ve already given up and unsubscribed from Arcade because it’s unplayable. 
 

I’ve gone back to playing FMT17 and visually it looks so much better than FMT24 in terms of match day lighting, stadiums, pitch textures. The match engine actually plays some decent football too. All been a bit downhill since the ME changes for FM18.

[SimonHoddle]

1 hour ago, BuryBlade said:

But bugs that have existed (and been reported) since FMT21 still exist in the game. Hardly ‘not the same as previous versions’

I agree with OP’s comments. The over promises before release, and the under delivered product have made this year worse. Touch has been bad for a while, but I’ve already given up and unsubscribed from Arcade because it’s unplayable. 
 

I’ve gone back to playing FMT17 and visually it looks so much better than FMT24 in terms of match day lighting, stadiums, pitch textures. The match engine actually plays some decent football too. All been a bit downhill since the ME changes for FM18.

Couldn’t agree more. I acknowledge the achievement of putting touch on a phone. But the graphics are still worse than 7 years ago. That’s bad. The data hub is completely false and they don’t admit it. Bad. Lighting has made the match worse. Bugs not fixed for years which customers post in bugs forum and get ignored.

Let’s talk like gown ups. Own the mistakes SI, but instead we get promises of a love letter to football BS? I was expecting beauty not another backward step lol. 
 

poor poor form.

[Dan Sheppard]

16 minutes ago, SimonHoddle said:

Couldn’t agree more. I acknowledge the achievement of putting touch on a phone. But the graphics are still worse than 7 years ago. That’s bad. The data hub is completely false and they don’t admit it. Bad. Lighting has made the match worse. Bugs not fixed for years which customers post in bugs forum and get ignored.

Let’s talk like gown ups. Own the mistakes SI, but instead we get promises of a love letter to football BS? I was expecting beauty not another backward step lol. 
 

poor poor form.

Appreciate the feedback, Simon, as mentioned by Zak if you get this into the bug section along with device specifics so that I can seek what I can in terms of answers relatable to your specs. To be honest, the ME is the same as FM so it could be due to how this just functions on some devices.

I've already flagged the Match Analysis comment and one of the devs has said they'll take a look if you can provide more info via the bug tracker. Please try and give as much info as possible including saves if applicable etc.

I'll do what I can to get some clarification for you.

[SimonHoddle]

3 hours ago, Dan Sheppard said:

Appreciate the feedback, Simon, as mentioned by Zak if you get this into the bug section along with device specifics so that I can seek what I can in terms of answers relatable to your specs. To be honest, the ME is the same as FM so it could be due to how this just functions on some devices.

I've already flagged the Match Analysis comment and one of the devs has said they'll take a look if you can provide more info via the bug tracker. Please try and give as much info as possible including saves if applicable etc.

I'll do what I can to get some clarification for you.

And appreciate the communication Dan. I’ll add what I can. The Analysis bug is nuanced though.
 

Through out all of FMT23 the Analysis merely represented tactical positions and showed no positional variety beyond that - which is both unrealistic and inevitably inaccurate. This year has slightly more differentiation on positions within analysis but still very marginal. 
 

IRL positional analysis will show dramatic differences between assigned and actual tactical positions. And allows managers to exploit the gaps.
FMT gets nowhere near representing this but….is it a bug or just beyond the hardware capabilities to measure these metrics?

[SimonHoddle]

3 hours ago, Dan Sheppard said:

Appreciate the feedback, Simon, as mentioned by Zak if you get this into the bug section along with device specifics so that I can seek what I can in terms of answers relatable to your specs. To be honest, the ME is the same as FM so it could be due to how this just functions on some devices.

I've already flagged the Match Analysis comment and one of the devs has said they'll take a look if you can provide more info via the bug tracker. Please try and give as much info as possible including saves if applicable etc.

I'll do what I can to get some clarification for you.

And in terms of the ME I’m really curious. So it’s identical to FM? but I guess the graphical representation of that ME is limited by device? So the same calculations are being made on FM v FMT but there are a much more Limited ways of displaying the outputs through the match? Therefore the action has less variety than full FM.?
 

sorry to pester but frankly great to have someone communicate and it allays a lot of disappointment if I/ we just understood what can and can’t be achieved.

[Dan Sheppard]

1 hour ago, SimonHoddle said:

sorry to pester but frankly great to have someone communicate and it allays a lot of disappointment if I/ we just understood what can and can’t be achieved.

Not a problem, I get the intention. I've raised the questions presented and will get back to you but as we are closing in on the weekend it'll be next week now.

Feel free to nudge me if you haven't heard early next week. Can you also let us know what device you are using?

[SimonHoddle]

Device is iPhone 14.

thanks again.

[GJHowell]

Got to agree with the sentiments of this thread. This isn't as simple as saying there are bugs, there are fundamental underlying issues with the overall gameplay and, if anything, FM24 Touch is worse than 23.

I understand the limitations regarding the restrictions on number of seasons and leagues that can be played - not ideal but if it's the limitations of the platform then that's just the way it is. BUT... other than cosmetic changes, none of the underlying problems that were highlighted numerous times by many posters last year have been addressed, and there appears to be new ones as well:

 - The frequency of injuries is still ridiculously high. I've played numerous saves with different clubs in different leagues so far and in around 90% I have had multiple occurrences of the "player x injury sparks club y crisis" message in my inbox by xmas in the first season. Added to that, the injury history section of the medical report only ever shows the most recent injury and nothing else. Also, the sheer volume of players that become "injured" during winter because of a cold or a virus and aren't available to select seems high - Just taking my own "real life" club, I can only think of infrequent occurrences of this over many years.

- Transfers are still broken. It is really difficult to move players on. Players show as wanted by other clubs, but it is rarely followed up on. If it is, it tends to be one non-negotiable stupid low ball offer. Once rejected the other club  either ends their interest, or comes back numerous times with exactly the same offer. Transfer listed players rarely get transfer offers - nearly always a loan offer with barely any financial contribution in terms of monthly fee or wages covered and a low optional transfer fee. Numerous instances of letting players go on these deals, have storming seasons and then the other club either not making an offer (and then only getting loan offers from other clubs) or offering a fee lower than that in the agreement and then refusing to negotiate when you try and increase the fee to that level. When it is the other way round, the AI club will accept nothing other than the amount agreed in the original loan contract. If you structure a loan deal with a mandatory fee agreement in, the player almost always turns the dead down, even when their initial position is that x club would be their preferred destination etc.This actually seems worse than last year.

 - Disparity between ratings of players in transfer reports, and rating when you sign them. Also, the speed with which their star rating decreases even when putting in good performances.

- Transfer data is a mess. If you go Into the transfer history of other clubs it isn't accurate. After four seasons of my latest save, the players listed in the transfer history suggest that Man City have only spent approx £85m in total since the game started. However, there are players in their squad that aren't showing on the transfer history, and the amounts spent/received that are shown do not tally with the players that are listed in the history. I don't recall noticing this last year, so possibly a new issue?

 - Reserve team don't use the first team tactic even though it is shown as the tactic for them. Assistant manager still trains players in positions/roles that aren't suited to the player, or relevant to the tactic being played.

 - Career progression is still difficult. Frequency of changes in manager in the Premier League is really low and this also seems the same at other "big" clubs across the leagues I'm playing in. This seems to be regardless of the performance of the club itself. It is very very rare to be linked with a vacant position if you're already in another job. Hasn't happened once in any of the saves I\v done so far this year. Only happened once or twice last year. Applying for, and getting offered better positions is rarely successful and often illogical. On my latest save I'm playing as Leeds. After four seasons we have been promoted from the Championship, getting an 8th place finish in the Premier League in the first season back and qualifying for and then winning the UECL. The following 2 seasons have resulted in top 4 finishes and Champions League qualification, with an FA cup win thrown, and a couple of other finals (which were lost) thrown in for good measure. Also have a good record in the 3 premier seasons against City, Liverpool, Chelsea etc. Over that same 4 season, Spurs have never finished higher than 6th, and the last 2 seasons have finished 11th and 10th. They've not won any cup competitions either. They've sacked Ange so I applied for the job, and declared interest. It went to Eddie Howe who was out of work after getting Villa relegated (following a sacking from Newcastle). I don't necessarily have an issue with that but, both he and I have 4 star reputation, yet when I declared interest the item in the inbox stated that Spurs fans had "laughed off" my interest and felt they needed someone more successful. It doesn't tally with what then happens. Ten Hag still secure at Man U despite not finishing higher than 4th and finishing outside the top 6 for the last 2 seasons.

 - Young players still don't develop.

All of the above contribute to making the game totally unenjoyable and virtually unplayable. 

I'm abandoning my Leeds save because it has simply become stagnant for all of the above reasons. I applied the golden generation unlockable at the start of season 1 and got an intake of 8 youth players all of league 1 or championship standard and 5 star potential (4 gold and 1 white star). Kept them in the reserves until they could be loaned out. Made them all available for loan,  only had interest for 3 of them, no actual offers made until I offered them out for loan. The only way that clubs at the level they were rated as being capable for would make offers were if I agreed to cover all of their wages. Managed to get 5 of them out on loan initially. Now after 4 years, most have been out and played at championship level, some for a couple of seasons. Barely any development in any of them, and potential for most is now only 3.5 stars. There is one still at 4 star potential, but only 2.5 of that is gold star. Most of them will be released at the end of their contract. None of them have ever been close to getting first team action apart from one that no-one would loan. He got in the team in the prem as a result of another injury crisis, and then also got some cup games. Performed well - he was 2 star rated in his role at the start of that period, 1.5 stars at the end of that season. 

Then there was Charlie Cresswell and Archie Gray. I put them into first team during that first season in the championship. They were regulars and both had great season. They've remained regulars during the 3 years in the poem. Barely any progress, current star rating and potential both reduced.

At the start of last season I spent most of my budget on Pacho from Eintract Frankfurt - had been tracking him for a while, good attributes and his performance stats had been good for the 3 seasons he had played in the Bundesliga and also in his European appearances, and was also an established international. He was rated as 4.5 stars in the role I needed him for by my chief scout. On signing this dropped to 3.5. My asst manager has the same attributes for judging ability and potential as my chief scout. He got sent off in a game and missed a match. When he came back in his rating had dropped to 3 stars. He's had a good season, best rated of all my CD's, he's now rated 2.5 stars. I understand how the rating system works, and that it is relative to the rest of the squad, but for that difference in a season you would have expected other players to improve - they haven't, they're all now 2.5 stars. Rinse and repeat this across numerous other positions in the squad and signings that I've made.

I've had more income this year due to another top 4 finish and Champions League participation, and financial performance has improved year on year. The transfer budget is a third lower than last year and the wage budget has been kept the same.

I can't sign the players of the quality I need to improve the squad because I don't have the budget, and even when I do, the player/squad rating just gets worse anyway so I can't judge what is needed. I don't have the capacity in the wage budget either - there are a handful of players out of contract, but not enough to make a difference. I can't free up wage budget by moving players on because the transfer system is broken. I can't buy cheaper younger talent with high potential, or try and bring academy players through, because they don't develop. There's no better jobs becoming available and on the very rare occasion they do, I'm not seen as suitable despite my record.

So at the end of 4 seasons the save is over.

The only way I can see there potentially being any hint of enjoyment in FMT at the moment is if you just stick to playing as one of the big clubs. It is virtually impossible to try and build a club at the moment. Absolute mess

[GJHowell]

I've added it to the relevant post in the bugs forum, but the development issue is massive - it's not just young players, established players are showing unrealistic decline in technical attributes  and, to a lesser extent, physical attributes, even when playing regularly and playing well. I've got players across multiple saves, supposedly in the prime of their careers, who show good progression on the line graph, but have significant decline and red arrows across the board in their technical and physical attributes. It's particularly pronounced on the set piece technical attributes. I'd hazard a guess that it's something to do with the new training system, because players are developing fine elsewhere in the games.

Game is basically unplayable - can't develop young players, and players you sign start decline pretty much from the day their contract starts. 

Can someone from SI confirm this is being resolved in the upcoming update? Given that it's almost a week since the full fat update, it's also pretty poor that the Touch update still hasn't been pushed out.

[Dan Sheppard]

15 hours ago, GJHowell said:

Can someone from SI confirm this is being resolved in the upcoming update? Given that it's almost a week since the full fat update, it's also pretty poor that the Touch update still hasn't been pushed out.

To give some insight - Both the Touch and the Console products have different submission processes to the PC game and must be submitted to various platform holders and as such need to conform to multiple unique timeframes. We work closely with said platform holders and all parties try our very best to get the updates out as fast as we can whilst maintaining the quality of the product and the platform integrity.

We should be able to share some news regarding updates very shortly - Keep an eye on the C&T General Discussion 

On 17/11/2023 at 15:51, Dan Sheppard said:

Feel free to nudge me if you haven't heard early next week.

I am still on this @SimonHoddle 

On 15/11/2023 at 18:57, SimonHoddle said:

I hate saying this as people work hard but it’s not the fault of developers it’s the fault of the directors for promising love letters to football and changing nothing.

- graphics are worse lol! The lighting distorts the colour so my spurs team plays in different kits in different views haha.

- age old bugs not fixed. Eg match doesn’t stop at half time

- repetitive ME

- data hub totally inaccurate 

While the above comes, it's worth noting a lot of changes were implemented to Touch this year (arguably the biggest yet), the work that goes on at SI to keep this as close to the FM while keeping it unique in itself will always bring challenges.

The data hub side of things has been flagged by you on a number of occasions with answers provided by @Neil Brock previously and from the screenshots that were seen, there isn't a huge amount of information to suggest a level of "total" inaccuracy.

To set expectations, it isn't to say that all of these bugs will be fixed during a cycle (FM24) and this is also relevant to previous titles. While I appreciate the issues raised may be affecting your game, it's often a challenge to find a balance between fixing one issue against another, and obviously, something will have to give.

It's also a little harsh to say 'Touch is a mess' when in reality the majority of issues being raised aren't specific to Touch and are shared across all platforms of the game, the team are actively working on improving the quality of all the FM24 shared features whilst balancing that with our next release. This said I do think that the upcoming updates planned will appease some of the issues raised in this thread across the course of FM24 - Call it a teaser if you will, but some info is here and it will cascade down to Touch.

As promised, I'll share more on the Match Engine bits when I get some additional information.

Thanks again for sharing the feedback

[João14]

@Dan SheppardEven though we might be a little harsh with posts here, I just want to clear out it (at least for me) that it does not go unnoticed the effort you, @Neil Brock or @Zachary Whyte from SI and @zakbrown96from the Mod Team in getting some answers. I also know that the "core" player base for C/T is a lot different from the Full Fat FM so it's not and never will be a top priority from SI and to my knowledge that's totally okay. In addition to the teaser part it would be nice if you could give an insight to let's say 50% of the bugs reported like you did on the one I reported:

"This is being looked but it dosen't look like it's getting fixed in this cycle" or obviously the opposite: "This is probably being fixed in a further update".

With this I want to say is (and I guess I speak for a lot of the users here) some communication could be done in a more direct way and not so ambiguous.

Other than that I reinforce that as always those 3/4 higher ranked users that usually answer to our problems are doing god's work as this forum used to be a lot worse in terms of participation.

Thanks and sorry for any misunderstanding. KIU 

[Dan Sheppard]

18 hours ago, João14 said:

@Dan SheppardEven though we might be a little harsh with posts here, I just want to clear out it (at least for me) that it does not go unnoticed the effort you, @Neil Brock or @Zachary Whyte from SI and @zakbrown96from the Mod Team in getting some answers. I also know that the "core" player base for C/T is a lot different from the Full Fat FM so it's not and never will be a top priority from SI and to my knowledge that's totally okay. In addition to the teaser part it would be nice if you could give an insight to let's say 50% of the bugs reported like you did on the one I reported:

"This is being looked but it dosen't look like it's getting fixed in this cycle" or obviously the opposite: "This is probably being fixed in a further update".

With this I want to say is (and I guess I speak for a lot of the users here) some communication could be done in a more direct way and not so ambiguous.

Other than that I reinforce that as always those 3/4 higher ranked users that usually answer to our problems are doing god's work as this forum used to be a lot worse in terms of participation.

Thanks and sorry for any misunderstanding. KIU 

Thanks for the kind words and appreciate the feedback as always, @João14 - It's a pleasure to be involved in such a community so dedicated to a game and I genuinely want to be as transparent as possible with communications with the community. It's what the team at SI wants, along with the awesome team of moderators and I'm sure the entire player base too.

This said it's often a delicate balancing act as with the way games like FM work, there are lots of complexities as I'm sure you are aware, and one thing can lead to another/have a knock-on impact on another in terms of fixes for a bug - this is often why sometimes we can only say so much about a specific issue that has been reported.

[SimonHoddle]

On 23/11/2023 at 12:04, Dan Sheppard said:

To give some insight - Both the Touch and the Console products have different submission processes to the PC game and must be submitted to various platform holders and as such need to conform to multiple unique timeframes. We work closely with said platform holders and all parties try our very best to get the updates out as fast as we can whilst maintaining the quality of the product and the platform integrity.

We should be able to share some news regarding updates very shortly - Keep an eye on the C&T General Discussion 

I am still on this @SimonHoddle 

While the above comes, it's worth noting a lot of changes were implemented to Touch this year (arguably the biggest yet), the work that goes on at SI to keep this as close to the FM while keeping it unique in itself will always bring challenges.

The data hub side of things has been flagged by you on a number of occasions with answers provided by @Neil Brock previously and from the screenshots that were seen, there isn't a huge amount of information to suggest a level of "total" inaccuracy.

To set expectations, it isn't to say that all of these bugs will be fixed during a cycle (FM24) and this is also relevant to previous titles. While I appreciate the issues raised may be affecting your game, it's often a challenge to find a balance between fixing one issue against another, and obviously, something will have to give.

It's also a little harsh to say 'Touch is a mess' when in reality the majority of issues being raised aren't specific to Touch and are shared across all platforms of the game, the team are actively working on improving the quality of all the FM24 shared features whilst balancing that with our next release. This said I do think that the upcoming updates planned will appease some of the issues raised in this thread across the course of FM24 - Call it a teaser if you will, but some info is here and it will cascade down to Touch.

As promised, I'll share more on the Match Engine bits when I get some additional information.

Thanks again for sharing the feedback

Hi Dan

appreciate the comms and yes my language can be a little bold, I admit. I am enjoying the game and it’s not a mess. But I think there are still several issues.

really not sure what is meant re: the data hub and it not being so bad that it doesn’t have a level of “total inaccuracy’..does that mean it’s pretty inaccurate but not 100% of the time? Yes I have raised this before. On different versions. If I go to the same restaurant in two different years and the soup part of the menu still tastes rubbish I’ll tell them again. Obviously lol! I have attached further examples of the data hub being flawed. I mean maybe my average team is both collectively and individually out performing everyone else, but I doubt it. Rather than saying you’re happy it’s not 100% inaccurate can you simply state it’s not an accurate tool and communicate that to the paying public please.

I think the match graphics are worse. There are times when I can’t see my team. SI has form for this. I really don’t get it. 
 

as I say. Despite everything I’m still enjoying the game so the developers deserve a lot of credit for making this happen on a phone. I don’t get half answers to feedback and I don’t appreciate the obfuscation you sometimes get off SI like it’s a game of chess between developer and player (this doesn’t include you Dan). We give your company a lot of money - we have the right to comment. I do think your CEO made a massive mistake when he talked about love letters to,football as it must have been obvious this would be an incremental change before next year’s revolution. 
 

thanks again for the open channel 
 

[Dan Sheppard]

4 hours ago, SimonHoddle said:

re: the data hub and it not being so bad that it doesn’t have a level of “total inaccuracy’..does that mean it’s pretty inaccurate but not 100% of the time

Honestly, not really something I have the level of knowledge to comment on directly in terms of the volume of data etc. This said I can continue to push through the examples that you provide (and continue to provide) to the relevant teams but please do so on your bug thread as that's where the QA team will be checking in more frequently. Checking the post in the bug tracker and internally, I can see this information is continuing to be logged.

4 hours ago, SimonHoddle said:

There are times when I can’t see my team

This has to do with importing save files from FM23 we believe, but it's not going to be fixed for FM24 - the plan is to address it for FM25.