Target Forward Discussion (Tactics, Attributes, Players)

[Marinho]

Sorry about not having in-game Screenshots ready but wanted to make the most of my lunch brear and is meant more as a general thread anyway, if there's interest in this. This version i am trying to do different saves (not necessarily at the same time) trying to build a club around a specific playstyle with a key role to try and make work as good as possible. Already doing a Strikerless save with an Enganche as the key player and going to do a Libero one at some point certainly as well. The other day i saw a Yter that bought Ajorque from Strasburg and while he didn't use him as a target forward as such (not in role or playstyle, using low crosses for example) this reminded me i wanted to use one for a while and never really committed to it since like maybe FM 19 despite being a big fan of this sort of player for ages ever since Jan Koller at Dortmund (also huge fan of Klose).

I did have one go at using a TF this FM, though that was maybe a bit atypical in that i used a 3 striker setup with a central TF (and it didn't work). I would prefer to not build a 433 but have at least other central player that plays off of the TF, be it a 2nd striker (or a 3 striker setup) or one or more CAMs as Shadow Striker/AM(A). In my strikerless Santos save the enganche works amazing with 2 Shadow strikers next to and 2 agressive B2B behind him so i would assume in theory there's a chance something a little similar, though of course with more width and a different style should work with a TF?

My ideal would maybe look a little like this, though i am pretty sure this exact formation would be complicated to get to work (at least i struggled routinely with multiple central roles vertically placed):

 

 

Alternatively maybe a 42121 with 2 DMs, a B2B (or maybe AP(S)), 2 Shadows and a TF. Or a 5 ATB and then a narrow diamond midfield (so a 51211). 

 

Anybody using a TF system themselves?

 

I realize that not using proper wingers makes this much more complicated ;)

[Flußkrebs]

I've been using a variety of 424/4231DM type systems this year, and sometimes use a front 2 of TFs-AFa (with either wingers or inside forwards depending on tactical set up). For context this is with Nottingham Forest second season- I've signed Diego Costa to help make it stick in tricky away games, so usually Costa-Awoniyi or Costa-Johnson up top. 

I usually go with PFs and AFa, but in tough away games I'll go cautious, long goal kicks and then sometimes switch the PF to a TF if I really want to go direct. 

Another set up I've been trying is with a CF and a SS behind him, but if the player isn't suited to play as a CF I don't see why you couldn't try TF. In a 442 I prefer to use TF-a, the TF-s can drop very deep, and the classic big man in the box or near the box is a TF-a.

I think with the tactic you've shared you're lacking penetration and overdoing it slightly centrally. You could try making it assymetric so the SS forms more of a 2, or better in my opinion would be making the front 2 TF-AF, and then making the central CM a more attacking role like CM-a (might need to change one of the Mez to a BWM or CAR). Reason being at the moment when you go direct, your TF-s will usually just have options behind him to knock it to, but if you play with a SS AND a AF, it should introduce more variance/movement and ability to flick on or knock down.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Flußkrebs

[Marinho]

Ended up starting at Verona (not yet in the mood for a save starting in the lower leagues), who have 3 good big targets already as well as promising fullbacks. Going to try a 433 with 3 striker and a AM behind. Risky but fits the players i have available with very few attacking mids but 4 good to great options up front. This is what i am going with, the first one for away games, the 2nd for home games and the 3rd for homa games when chasing a game.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by Marinho

[Marinho]

Also think that a 4411 has promise here so that's something i might have a look at for season 2/3 as that would need a few changes to the squad.

[Andros]

Any supporters of AFL here?  I always wanted to replicate some kind of North Melbourne mid 90s tactic using a target man (I know that seems odd, but hey ho!).

 

For those that don't know (probably almost all of you) the mid 90s North Melbourne team were a very good team that focused most (all?) of its attacks through 1 great player (Wayne Carey - who later disgraced himself with the club by sleeping with the wife of the captain...).  This player played somewhere between centre half forward and full forward and is similar to a target man in football.  Closer to goal was a full forward in john longmire and a forward pocket in brett allison.  

 

The midfield was packed with players like wayne schwass. anthony stevens, craig scholl, who would drive forward when attacking to feed off balls from carey (well stevens perhaps less).  The half back line had aggressive players like david king who liked to push forward and score a goal when given the chance.  And the defense was full of harder players who were very willing to attack the ball - mick martyn, glenn archer and in his final years: ian fairly.  There was also a strong ruck in corey mckernan (I am not sure i can make that work in FM!).

 

So how could I try and make this work in FM?  Well, to be honest it would be better if I could get the target man in the AMC position! But that is not possible, so I have been thinking about something like this:

 

 

I have no idea if it would work at all, I have never tried it, it is just a thought I have had.  Play deep, get the ball long to the target man who can flick it onto the poacher and the midfield rushes in to help.

[Dutchy1983]

6 hours ago, Andros said:

Any supporters of AFL here?  I always wanted to replicate some kind of North Melbourne mid 90s tactic using a target man (I know that seems odd, but hey ho!).

 

For those that don't know (probably almost all of you) the mid 90s North Melbourne team were a very good team that focused most (all?) of its attacks through 1 great player (Wayne Carey - who later disgraced himself with the club by sleeping with the wife of the captain...).  This player played somewhere between centre half forward and full forward and is similar to a target man in football.  Closer to goal was a full forward in john longmire and a forward pocket in brett allison.  

 

The midfield was packed with players like wayne schwass. anthony stevens, craig scholl, who would drive forward when attacking to feed off balls from carey (well stevens perhaps less).  The half back line had aggressive players like david king who liked to push forward and score a goal when given the chance.  And the defense was full of harder players who were very willing to attack the ball - mick martyn, glenn archer and in his final years: ian fairly.  There was also a strong ruck in corey mckernan (I am not sure i can make that work in FM!).

 

So how could I try and make this work in FM?  Well, to be honest it would be better if I could get the target man in the AMC position! But that is not possible, so I have been thinking about something like this:

 

 

I have no idea if it would work at all, I have never tried it, it is just a thought I have had.  Play deep, get the ball long to the target man who can flick it onto the poacher and the midfield rushes in to help.

Pagan's paddock! The duck was unbelievable...

Im currently running a 5-2-2-1

TF-S 

SS  SS

Similar theory, WBs hitting early crosses, SS's running into the TFs flick ons

[Marinho]

2 interesting approaches, let us know how it goes

Also think that a 4411 as mentioned before has promise here so that's something i might have a look at for season 2/3 as that would need a few changes to the squad. Started with Verona as they have 2 really good target forwards + another on loan that can also play other roles. Going with an attacking 4213 (2 CM, 1 AM) and a more defensive 5122 with a middle option being a 4123 (1 DM, 2 CM)

 

 

 

[Andros]

Hi @Marinho i am curious: why have team instructions like: shorter passing,  work ball into box, slow pace down etc when using a target man?

[Marinho]

4 hours ago, Andros said:

Hi @Marinho i am curious: why have team instructions like: shorter passing,  work ball into box, slow pace down etc when using a target man?

Because i kept on ending up with 25% posession and don't really want to go Route 1 but simply have a focal player offensively to win headers and be physical, not end up with a gajillion long balls played to him. Slowing things down refers to the GK and is more a way to let players catch their breath and get into position. Still experimenting a bit, regardless. Figure as long as i don't get in a relegation fight i am ok not winning as much as possible, get scouting and then built a team based on what i've seen in season 1.

[frukox]

On 22.11.2022 at 14:43, Marinho said:

Sorry about not having in-game Screenshots ready but wanted to make the most of my lunch brear and is meant more as a general thread anyway, if there's interest in this. This version i am trying to do different saves (not necessarily at the same time) trying to build a club around a specific playstyle with a key role to try and make work as good as possible. Already doing a Strikerless save with an Enganche as the key player and going to do a Libero one at some point certainly as well. The other day i saw a Yter that bought Ajorque from Strasburg and while he didn't use him as a target forward as such (not in role or playstyle, using low crosses for example) this reminded me i wanted to use one for a while and never really committed to it since like maybe FM 19 despite being a big fan of this sort of player for ages ever since Jan Koller at Dortmund (also huge fan of Klose).

I did have one go at using a TF this FM, though that was maybe a bit atypical in that i used a 3 striker setup with a central TF (and it didn't work). I would prefer to not build a 433 but have at least other central player that plays off of the TF, be it a 2nd striker (or a 3 striker setup) or one or more CAMs as Shadow Striker/AM(A). In my strikerless Santos save the enganche works amazing with 2 Shadow strikers next to and 2 agressive B2B behind him so i would assume in theory there's a chance something a little similar, though of course with more width and a different style should work with a TF?

My ideal would maybe look a little like this, though i am pretty sure this exact formation would be complicated to get to work (at least i struggled routinely with multiple central roles vertically placed):

 

 

Alternatively maybe a 42121 with 2 DMs, a B2B (or maybe AP(S)), 2 Shadows and a TF. Or a 5 ATB and then a narrow diamond midfield (so a 51211). 

 

Anybody using a TF system themselves?

 

I realize that not using proper wingers makes this much more complicated

If I were to employ a TM/TF in, for example, a 5-3-2 my system would be as shown below in accordance with a neutral approach:

                TMS     PFA

         MEZA           BBM

                    REG

WBA                                 WBA       

       WCBS  CDC  WCBS

                    SKS

 

Mentality: Balanced

 

Wide

More Direct Passes

Overlap Left

Overlap Right

 

Distribute to Targetman

Take Long Kicks

 

Mid Block

Extremely Urgent Pressing

Tighter Marking except for CBs

Tackle Hard(All Midfielders)

Defend Narrower

The idea is to get the ball directly to the TF for flick-ons to PF and back passes to onrushing wingbacks, midfielders, especially to the mezzala which keep defenders busy there with the left WB while BBM REG will be short passing options for them after winning the ball in and around the middle of the park with aggressive defending and marking. From there REG will switch play to the other flank or try a killer ball for the PF to latch onto for a clear run on goal. MEZA, BBM and REG all will be our runners from deep for a cutback or a cross into the penalty area by WBs.

Penetration would come from TMS, PFA(defenders occupied and right HS), MEZA(left hs) and WBs(wings).

Width comes from our WBs.

Support: Players have lots of close passing options to their left and right, behind them or in front of them)

Mobility comes from our midfielders. They will support play when necessary either for an unexpected run into the penalty area or always making themselves available for a pass(to prevent a potential counterattack after a potential turnover from an isolated player.)

We have different attacking patterns all over the pitch:

A cross/cutback from left and right WBAs

A combination play between MEZA, TMS and PFA

Third man runs: MEZA/BBM-->REG-->WBAs or TMS--> MEZA-->PFA or

TMS--> MEZA/BBM--> REG(throughballs) --> PFA

1vs 1 duels: PFA(maybe), WBAs and MEZA

Pot shots from REG and BBM when deep in the final third after a cutback

Set-pieces

 

P.S.: After creating this tactic I really wanted to try this out with a squad suitable for this style:)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BadAss88]

On 27/11/2022 at 20:48, frukox said:

If I were to employ a TM/TF in, for example, a 5-3-2 my system would be as shown below in accordance with a neutral approach:

                TMS     PFA

         MEZA           BBM

                    REG

WBA                                 WBA       

       WCBS  CDC  WCBS

                    SKS

 

Mentality: Balanced

 

Wide

More Direct Passes

Overlap Left

Overlap Right

 

Distribute to Targetman

Take Long Kicks

 

Mid Block

Extremely Urgent Pressing

Tighter Marking except for CBs

Tackle Hard(All Midfielders)

Defend Narrower

The idea is to get the ball directly to the TF for flick-ons to PF and back passes to onrushing wingbacks, midfielders, especially to the mezzala which keep defenders busy there with the left WB while BBM REG will be short passing options for them after winning the ball in and around the middle of the park with aggressive defending and marking. From there REG will switch play to the other flank or try a killer ball for the PF to latch onto for a clear run on goal. MEZA, BBM and REG all will be our runners from deep for a cutback or a cross into the penalty area by WBs.

Penetration would come from TMS, PFA(defenders occupied and right HS), MEZA(left hs) and WBs(wings).

Width comes from our WBs.

Support: Players have lots of close passing options to their left and right, behind them or in front of them)

Mobility comes from our midfielders. They will support play when necessary either for an unexpected run into the penalty area or always making themselves available for a pass(to prevent a potential counterattack after a potential turnover from an isolated player.)

We have different attacking patterns all over the pitch:

A cross/cutback from left and right WBAs

A combination play between MEZA, TMS and PFA

Third man runs: MEZA/BBM-->REG-->WBAs or TMS--> MEZA-->PFA or

TMS--> MEZA/BBM--> REG(throughballs) --> PFA

1vs 1 duels: PFA(maybe), WBAs and MEZA

Pot shots from REG and BBM when deep in the final third after a cutback

Set-pieces

 

P.S.: After creating this tactic I really wanted to try this out with a squad suitable for this style:)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm gonna give this a try.. I want to make a targetman tactic work! 

[frukox]

3 saat önce, BadAss88 said:

I'm gonna give this a try.. I want to make a targetman tactic work! 

Yeah, it's a good idea. I'm still optimizing my system in my only save so I don't have time to try this and please give some feedback whether the system works as expected.