Team Consistently underperforming XG and XG table

[trueblue9877]

I'd just like to know why my team is consistently expected to finish in the top 7 in League 2 ( For five straight seasons) but opposition teams are ALWAYS able to either get double or triple their XG against us which means that my team finishes in lower mid table despite having an average at worst defence.

[dazza11]

I’m guessing it’s your tactics but without a few screenshots its impossible to help 

[trueblue9877]

28 minutes ago, dazza11 said:

I’m guessing it’s your tactics but without a few screenshots its impossible to help 

This is the tactic and XG Table which has been the same thing for the last 5 seasons in a row without fail, except for a few positions, every season we have either close to -10 XP or even above -10 it has never once even come close to + anything.

[Sharkn20]

Apart from the obvious tactical horrors, any lower league team playing at the counter is going to destroy You. Don't try to play like Liverpool when you have League 2 players.

Get better players if you want to play like that. If they can't perform in 5 consecutive seasons that's on the players, that's too large of a sample.

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Sharkn20

[trueblue9877]

16 minutes ago, Sharkn20 said:

Apart from the obvious tactical horrors, any lower league team playing at the counter is going to destroy You. Don't try to play like Liverpool when you have League 2 players.

Get better players if you want to play like that. If they can't perform in 5 consecutive seasons that's on the players, that's too large of a sample.

 

What tactical horrors?

[Sharkn20]

18 minutes ago, trueblue9877 said:

What tactical horrors?

Accumulation of players in the middle of the pitch in attacking phases with no variety between flanks, you either go through the middle or through the middle, no options.

Take short kicks to CBs or FBs, you really want your kicker to get confused here, kick to FBs? Or kick to CBs? If kicking to CB they better have good first touch to control those 5 yard kicks! Is your kicker clever enough to choose wisely?

Counter with a bottom heavy formation, you better get Beckham starting the counter to thread a needle to your only option up and you better have Ibrahimovic on top to fight for a long ball with all the defenders around.

Counter press with a bottom heavy formation, you basically are sending 5 men on a mision against potentially 9 or 10 to pass the ball around. I bet they are gassed by the end of the match.

Using tighter marking in League 2? I don't think you got excellent man marking players all over the pitch for that.

The lower in the pyramid you are and the lower the attributes of your players, the more simple you need to play. Also I suggest you to use a different setup in the flanks to give your team more and different options to score.

All of this GGP double IF and an AF business is for teams with star players, that it doesn't matter really how good the tactic is, the super players just win for them.

Edited February 21, 2022 by Sharkn20

[trueblue9877]

I am not  Gegenpressing, it's a mid block standard LOE and DL

If I change the wide players to wingers = No goals

 

[trueblue9877]

1 hour ago, Sharkn20 said:

Accumulation of players in the middle of the pitch in attacking phases with no variety between flanks, you either go through the middle or through the middle, no options.

Take short kicks to CBs or FBs, you really want your kicker to get confused here, kick to FBs? Or kick to CBs? If kicking to CB they better have good first touch to control those 5 yard kicks! Is your kicker clever enough to choose wisely?

Counter with a bottom heavy formation, you better get Beckham starting the counter to thread a needle to your only option up and you better have Ibrahimovic on top to fight for a long ball with all the defenders around.

Counter press with a bottom heavy formation, you basically are sending 5 men on a mision against potentially 9 or 10 to pass the ball around. I bet they are gassed by the end of the match.

Using tighter marking in League 2? I don't think you got excellent man marking players all over the pitch for that.

The lower in the pyramid you are and the lower the attributes of your players, the more simple you need to play. Also I suggest you to use a different setup in the flanks to give your team more and different options to score.

All of this GGP double IF and an AF business is for teams with star players, that it doesn't matter really how good the tactic is, the super players just win for them.

Thoughts on this? It is performing  better.

[Mike J]

That's still really passive, IMO. You're basically telling your players to fire crosses at the big man and hope he scores. There's not enough movement from midfield. You're playing with a TF, so what happens when the AP or GK gets the ball to him and he does his job of holding it up? There's nobody trying to break past him and if he plays it out wide to the wingers, he's then got to leg it into the box as he's the only player in your team being instructed to do that.

I'd change to AP/S to an AP/A and maybe change one of the wingers to an Attack duty too. That should help create more problems for opposition defences.

[trueblue9877]

22 minutes ago, Mike J said:

That's still really passive, IMO. You're basically telling your players to fire crosses at the big man and hope he scores. There's not enough movement from midfield. You're playing with a TF, so what happens when the AP or GK gets the ball to him and he does his job of holding it up? There's nobody trying to break past him and if he plays it out wide to the wingers, he's then got to leg it into the box as he's the only player in your team being instructed to do that.

I'd change to AP/S to an AP/A and maybe change one of the wingers to an Attack duty too. That should help create more problems for opposition defences.

Point taken, do you think a BBM would get into the box and break the lines in midfield  too because I have found AP (S) and BBM to be a good combo in mid.

[trueblue9877]

1 hour ago, Mike J said:

That's still really passive, IMO. You're basically telling your players to fire crosses at the big man and hope he scores. There's not enough movement from midfield. You're playing with a TF, so what happens when the AP or GK gets the ball to him and he does his job of holding it up? There's nobody trying to break past him and if he plays it out wide to the wingers, he's then got to leg it into the box as he's the only player in your team being instructed to do that.

I'd change to AP/S to an AP/A and maybe change one of the wingers to an Attack duty too. That should help create more problems for opposition defences.

New and improved?

[Jack722]

16 hours ago, trueblue9877 said:

This is the tactic and XG Table which has been the same thing for the last 5 seasons in a row without fail, except for a few positions, every season we have either close to -10 XP or even above -10 it has never once even come close to + anything.

The original tactic looks good. I'd be willing to bet that the issue isn't tactical. It's probably more to do with your man management and / or motivation

[Jack722]

3 hours ago, Sharkn20 said:

Accumulation of players in the middle of the pitch in attacking phases with no variety between flanks, you either go through the middle or through the middle, no options.

Take short kicks to CBs or FBs, you really want your kicker to get confused here, kick to FBs? Or kick to CBs? If kicking to CB they better have good first touch to control those 5 yard kicks! Is your kicker clever enough to choose wisely?

Counter with a bottom heavy formation, you better get Beckham starting the counter to thread a needle to your only option up and you better have Ibrahimovic on top to fight for a long ball with all the defenders around.

Counter press with a bottom heavy formation, you basically are sending 5 men on a mision against potentially 9 or 10 to pass the ball around. I bet they are gassed by the end of the match.

Using tighter marking in League 2? I don't think you got excellent man marking players all over the pitch for that.

The lower in the pyramid you are and the lower the attributes of your players, the more simple you need to play. Also I suggest you to use a different setup in the flanks to give your team more and different options to score.

All of this GGP double IF and an AF business is for teams with star players, that it doesn't matter really how good the tactic is, the super players just win for them.

433 isn't bottom heavy

[dazza11]

17 hours ago, trueblue9877 said:

This is the tactic and XG Table which has been the same thing for the last 5 seasons in a row without fail, except for a few positions, every season we have either close to -10 XP or even above -10 it has never once even come close to + anything.

I agree with @Jack722 in that I don’t think your original tactic was too far from being ok. 
Couple of points - front 3 is unbalanced, IF’s are effectively moving forward attackers and not creators, so I’d make one of those a W or IW to add some creativity in that front 3.

Whether you give them a S or A duty depends if you believe the tactic is struggling to create goals, or score them. I’d start with IFA and IWS with stay wider ppm to start. 
The tactic has one A duty (AF) and using balanced mentality and standard tempo. You need to up one of those or you are too passive in attack. Personally I’d go with Positive or Attacking, with standard tempo. 
As you are using play out of defence you can kill a lot of those in transition instructions. 
Again, counter and counter press with standard LOE & defensive line means you’ve got a lot of work to do to then break down play, get forward and shoot. You need to practice with your own choices, but maybe up defensive line a notch. 
Then there is a whole heap you can do with PI’s but changes need to happen slowly so you can work out what’s working for level you are playing at and the players limitations in lower standard football. 
Hope that helps.

[Sharkn20]

1 hour ago, trueblue9877 said:

New and improved?

You might want to just mark distribution to CBs or FBs without the take short kicks and the Right winger as an IF-At instead. You want that striker to push the back line so AF-At is much better.

I have a B2B-Su midfielder instead of that BWM- same mission, more attacking outlet. The right winback as an WB-At and the left CB as BPD-De to have a 2nd player who can bring out the ball from the defense.

[Sharkn20]

58 minutes ago, Jack722 said:

433 isn't bottom heavy

3 up 7 down is not bottom heavy? What is it? Balanced? My maths are awful then.

[trueblue9877]

11 minutes ago, Sharkn20 said:

You might want to just mark distribution to CBs or FBs without the take short kicks and the Right winger as an IF-At instead. You want that striker to push the back line so AF-At is much better.

I have a B2B-Su midfielder instead of that BWM- same mission, more attacking outlet. The right winback as an WB-At and the left CB as BPD-De to have a 2nd player who can bring out the ball from the defense.

Dude I actually can't believe it but after a good start we have completely collapsed but in January I'm 20th and have a bad defence and attack, it just doesn't make any sense I changed one of the two wingers to IF on attack but just kept losing, I changed to AF too but I just don't get it man what shouldn't work works and what makes sense doesn't.....

[El__Palo]

I think your original tactic was way too passive. If you are predicted 7 you need to attack more.

 

I would draw something like this

SK def

2 Fullbacks on support with get further forward PI (they will get forward but when the time is right, not every time)

2 BPD de or 1 CB if they are both bad with the ball

DLP def

1 Mezzala on attack and 1 BBM

wingers, that depends on your players, but i would put both on attack duty, or at least 1

1 PressingForward Attack, the TM role is very difficult to get right. It could also be DLP At, or even Poacher.

 

 

Positive mentality

Team instructions:

Play from the back, run at defense, shorter passes.

Counterpress, counter, distribute to whoever you want

Pressing much more often, standard LoE and standard Line

 

Check your set pieces, make sure you leave people to defend the counters. Corners to Near post to your best aerial threat (TM or your CDs)

Check hard tackling on at least your DM and Fullbacks. The rest of the players, mainly the CMs and wingers, are possible too but it depends on their quality.

 

The rest of the tweaks should be highly dependant of your players, But this would be a good starting point.

[Sharkn20]

3 hours ago, trueblue9877 said:

Dude I actually can't believe it but after a good start we have completely collapsed but in January I'm 20th and have a bad defence and attack, it just doesn't make any sense I changed one of the two wingers to IF on attack but just kept losing, I changed to AF too but I just don't get it man what shouldn't work works and what makes sense doesn't.....

January is the month when most of this GGP tactics fail, when you start winning and most team just stick 10 men behind the ball, no more spaces to exploit, you just need to work in set pieces then to open the can in every game.

Edited February 21, 2022 by Sharkn20

[Jack722]

5 hours ago, Sharkn20 said:

3 up 7 down is not bottom heavy? What is it? Balanced? My maths are awful then.

How many attackers do you need then? So are the only non-bottom heavy formations the 4231 and 424?

433 is one of the better pressing shapes out there.. literally used regularly by two of the managers most associated with counter pressing and high press in general. Pep, Klopp

[trueblue9877]

2 hours ago, Sharkn20 said:

January is the month when most of this GGP tactics fail, when you start winning and most team just stick 10 men behind the ball, no more spaces to exploit, you just need to work in set pieces then to open the can in every game.

Not too bad.

[dazza11]

So what did u tweak to get to 1st?

[trueblue9877]

26 minutes ago, dazza11 said:

So what did u tweak to get to 1st?

I ended up finishing 5th after a slight dip in May and losing the Playoff final, the main tweak was changing to AF and using an IF (A), you probably  won't  like it but I brought back, Counter and Counterpress.

 

I'm trying to run this system now and the XG is higher on average and not doing too bad, thoughts?

[Sharkn20]

1 hour ago, trueblue9877 said:

I ended up finishing 5th after a slight dip in May and losing the Playoff final, the main tweak was changing to AF and using an IF (A), you probably  won't  like it but I brought back, Counter and Counterpress.

 

I'm trying to run this system now and the XG is higher on average and not doing too bad, thoughts?

I really like that setup, is excellent when you are favoured. You might have to switch back to the previous one after your promotion.

[trueblue9877]

41 minutes ago, Sharkn20 said:

I really like that setup, is excellent when you are favoured. You might have to switch back to the previous one after your promotion.

Thanks for all your help I appreciate it but it happened again, we only won once after January and ended up finishing 15th despite XG table of 8th place is there anything I could do to improve this, I'm trying 4-4-2 because it's more realistic for a Lower League Team, or are the results mainly because we are literally the worst team in the league?

[Sharkn20]

9 hours ago, trueblue9877 said:

Thanks for all your help I appreciate it but it happened again, we only won once after January and ended up finishing 15th despite XG table of 8th place is there anything I could do to improve this, I'm trying 4-4-2 because it's more realistic for a Lower League Team, or are the results mainly because we are literally the worst team in the league?

It all comes down to the players and morale. If you were projected to be the worst in the league, is because you have the worst players. So that's something you need to work on. The tactic looks fine, but you will need the players to go with it.

[trueblue9877]

1 hour ago, Sharkn20 said:

It all comes down to the players and morale. If you were projected to be the worst in the league, is because you have the worst players. So that's something you need to work on. The tactic looks fine, but you will need the players to go with it.

TBH I don't really like the squad building aspect of the game, I just don't know what I'm looking for I guess, especially when you have Scunthorpe's budget it's like all you can do is loan and get free agents or even as a VNLS team, I just look at the scouting reports in June and try and sign the free agents that look like they can be good signings.

[Sharkn20]

6 hours ago, trueblue9877 said:

TBH I don't really like the squad building aspect of the game, I just don't know what I'm looking for I guess, especially when you have Scunthorpe's budget it's like all you can do is loan and get free agents or even as a VNLS team, I just look at the scouting reports in June and try and sign the free agents that look like they can be good signings.

You have to look for players that are better at the roles that you have in your tactic, even minimal gains like +1 / +2 can make a big difference in your team. You can understand what attributes affect roles by looking at the green lines in the attributes page when you select the role for the player.

Squad building is the key of this game, specially if you want to play in lower leagues and your way up from there.

[trueblue9877]

5 hours ago, Sharkn20 said:

You have to look for players that are better at the roles that you have in your tactic, even minimal gains like +1 / +2 can make a big difference in your team. You can understand what attributes affect roles by looking at the green lines in the attributes page when you select the role for the player.

Squad building is the key of this game, specially if you want to play in lower leagues and your way up from there.

We managed to get promoted and have had a pretty good first season but have had a slightly below average attack with a mediocre defence, not too bad as I was just happy to now get slapped straight back down. Is there anything you would suggest to help the offence?

[trueblue9877]

The tactic looks like this now btw.

[Fox-7-]

I suggest to try with a Mezzala on attack duty instead of BBM and switch WBL with a FBL on support duty.

Consider to uncheck Run at defence button and if you want to really Counter Press I'd put DL and LoE at least one notch higher

Edited February 23, 2022 by Fox-7-

[trueblue9877]

On 22/02/2022 at 18:15, Sharkn20 said:

You have to look for players that are better at the roles that you have in your tactic, even minimal gains like +1 / +2 can make a big difference in your team. You can understand what attributes affect roles by looking at the green lines in the attributes page when you select the role for the player.

Squad building is the key of this game, specially if you want to play in lower leagues and your way up from there.

Ok last message, do you think this can work for a team predicted to finish 24th in the VNL?

[trueblue9877]

[Sharkn20]

4 hours ago, trueblue9877 said:

I think is a bit too aggressive, but give it a go and see how it works

[trueblue9877]

On 25/02/2022 at 16:22, Sharkn20 said:

I think is a bit too aggressive, but give it a go and see how it works

Managed to stay in the VNL using the most recent 4-3-3 tactic but that's about it, the defending lets in a little bit less goals than the other teams which is nice but the goals have kinda dried up, so the GD usually varies from +5 to around -5 each season depending on how the defence does.

[trueblue9877]

On 22/02/2022 at 09:54, Sharkn20 said:

It all comes down to the players and morale. If you were projected to be the worst in the league, is because you have the worst players. So that's something you need to work on. The tactic looks fine, but you will need the players to go with it.

Sorry to bother you again but is there any suggestions that you would make as to improving the last 4-3-3 tactic offensively?

Edited February 27, 2022 by trueblue9877
Typo

[dazza11]

You could try upping your mentality and loe so that you station yourself more in the opponents half. It still seems a little passive. 

have you gone through the data hub? Looked at your chance creation, possession gained etc? It can tell you a lot about your tactic and give hints on where you can improve. 

[trueblue9877]

2 hours ago, dazza11 said:

You could try upping your mentality and loe so that you station yourself more in the opponents half. It still seems a little passive. 

have you gone through the data hub? Looked at your chance creation, possession gained etc? It can tell you a lot about your tactic and give hints on where you can improve. 

I checked the possession gained and saw that we only win possession 1% of the time in the opponent's third 1% of the time but that is deliberate because we win it in the middle  third 45% of the time for a mid block, I raised the defensive line to be less passive and now have this but with "higher defensive line" 

That has helped a bit because the results have improved but we are still having trouble creating chances consistently, some good games some bad ones.

[dazza11]

The lack of consistency is probably lack of quality in your players, after all, you are playing in league 2, and your 3rd so not sure what else you’re looking for?

are your front men good enough to be banging goals in every game?

 

id definitely still up mentality to positive but if you’re 3rd in league at that standard I’d say things are going pretty well 

[trueblue9877]

1 hour ago, dazza11 said:

The lack of consistency is probably lack of quality in your players, after all, you are playing in league 2, and your 3rd so not sure what else you’re looking for?

are your front men good enough to be banging goals in every game?

 

id definitely still up mentality to positive but if you’re 3rd in league at that standard I’d say things are going pretty well 

Thanks for the advice, it's been working really well on positive, I managed to get to first place in League One after a couple of seasons of 8th and 10th and might get to the Championship next season, looking forward to seeing how it goes.

[trueblue9877]

4 hours ago, dazza11 said:

The lack of consistency is probably lack of quality in your players, after all, you are playing in league 2, and your 3rd so not sure what else you’re looking for?

are your front men good enough to be banging goals in every game?

 

id definitely still up mentality to positive but if you’re 3rd in league at that standard I’d say things are going pretty well 

I managed to get promoted to the Championship but now I am rooted to the bottom of the table, no changes seem to be working, even reverting to the original tactic is ineffective.

[Sunzibad]

On 25/02/2022 at 12:03, trueblue9877 said:

First Time poster compelled to post as I am currently managing Slough.

Season 5 and I'm in League One where I'm doing quite well. Anyone, wasn't to brag - it was more to say that many people say that tactics should be kept simple in Lower League football and the reasons behind that make sense but I found that my team was just playing without direction. I went the other way and found far more success - staple to my tactic has been playing on Positive using Counter/Counter Press + Slightly Shorter/Slightly Higher Tempo. The formation and roles have evolved as the personnel have but the mindset is the same. Attack playing on the deck. I started as a Sunday League player with a National C license meaning to say I don't believe I've had anything that I could have known of assisting me. Not spent on a single player and my highest sale is 6.5K ha ha ha -  revolving door of players picked up from the end of season Free Agent scrap pile. Many young Prem discards. 

My issue is profligacy - we tend to have 20 shots a game but don't score anymore than 2 maybe 3... or even 1 when playing away games at struggling teams. Is that a fault of the tactic or a lack of quality personnel - I'm not sure (I watch the games on comprehensive highlights at a viewable speed) - but the results are excellent and the attempts are being registered so I've not felt to tinker. The DataHub has us excelling Offensively and Defensively compared with league averages aside number of tackles made.

These are the tactics I have used - it started out with an ML/MR until I picked up Edwin Andersson - DataHub had him losing the ball often as an IF(a) so I switched him to an IW(a) - he takes far less risks and is scoring at a better rate since. My system really started to kick on when I signed Brett McGavin and deployed him as an AP(a) - that was the puzzle piece to make us click. Having someone dictate the play and contributing 15+ assists a season has just gelled it all together. I had been toiling with a DLP(s) prior and it had been too docile.

Here is my tactic and a few supporting screenies:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Sunzibad

[Sunzibad]

I see you have Alfie Beestin in you Scunny team ha ha - I also have him but he's anything but beasting for me. I have not managed to get him to perform annoyingly; he has some very good stats for the standard.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Sunzibad