Not knowing how to tweak while creating my very first own tactic

[Brian]

Hello,

In this thread I will review my steps in creating my very own tactic.. for the first time! 

I have played FM in the past, but never took the time to create tactics on my own. I would just play with other people tactics and skipping true season. Without ever feeling the reward of winning a trophy with the squad you build, the way you want to play. 

I thought it was time to pick up FM22 - after not playing for 4 years - and starting from scratch. 

And I think I have gotten to the point most people get when starting to create tactics. Not really knowing what to do.. 

The formation

The idea is to create a 3-2 shape in the build up, like Nagelsmann is doing at Bayern. This way I want to build a strong center of the pitch against counter attacks. 

 

Safe to say.. it isn't working. The weird part for me is that my U19 team is firing up all cilinders with the same formation.. 

So the question really is.. where to look? Where do I need to look to improve my tactics?

Background information playing style

So in build up I wanted to create the same that Nagelsmann is doing at Bayern. A 3-2 shape. Without 3 very good defenders, the only option was trying to create the shape with 2 CBs en FBs. Looking around the forum, I found that people are using a FB with sit narrow and a CB with stay wider. It works. 

But I can't seem to get the other part going. Possession stats is great, averaging 60% possession with under preforming xG. But in the game vs Real Betis (Real Hispalis) and Ajax we had around 1.00 xG while the opponent had 3.00+ xG. There is something really wrong, I can't finger it out. 

 

Any help is much appreciated. 

 

P.S. If you need more information or screenshots, let me know! 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by Brian

[SixPointer]

First off all I like the tactical idea! I like your thought process in getting your build up overload. And from the pass map shown your deep build up play looks good. 
 

my concerns would be that your left side is very attacking you have IF(A) Mezz(S) and CWB(S) all down one side compared to a much more conservative right side. Now if you wish to create an overload and exploit on certain side this is good but it not I would be tempted to switch your two centre midfield roles. 
This will offer more balance. The cm(d) will help cover for the adventurous wing back and the Mezz will provide some width and support play to the IF while becoming a more progressive passing option for your narrow full back. 
 

In terms of low XG and high possession I feel your team instructions could be a little area of concern here. Mainly in possession.
 

The fact you have went attacking mentality then tailored it to your style is great, but i feel having WBIB, lower tempo, short passing and play out of defence all added has toned down the attacking mentality to much and Almost created possession for the sake of it. Rather than using it to hurt teams.
 

I would consider dropping work ball into box and lower tempo and using them as in game tweak/options. For when you potentially are wasting chances, taking to many shots, or generally not holding on to the ball enough.  

[DarJ]

I think the problem is that you focused too much on creating the 3-2 shape at the back that you didn't think about how it's going to work with the rest of the team.

Something that could help is think about how you want to score goals and draw on a piece of paper how the team would look like in the attacking phase then think about the roles that will give you that movement

[Brian]

6 hours ago, SixPointer said:

First off all I like the tactical idea! I like your thought process in getting your build up overload. And from the pass map shown your deep build up play looks good. 
 

my concerns would be that your left side is very attacking you have IF(A) Mezz(S) and CWB(S) all down one side compared to a much more conservative right side. Now if you wish to create an overload and exploit on certain side this is good but it not I would be tempted to switch your two centre midfield roles. 
This will offer more balance. The cm(d) will help cover for the adventurous wing back and the Mezz will provide some width and support play to the IF while becoming a more progressive passing option for your narrow full back. 
 

In terms of low XG and high possession I feel your team instructions could be a little area of concern here. Mainly in possession.
 

The fact you have went attacking mentality then tailored it to your style is great, but i feel having WBIB, lower tempo, short passing and play out of defence all added has toned down the attacking mentality to much and Almost created possession for the sake of it. Rather than using it to hurt teams.
 

I would consider dropping work ball into box and lower tempo and using them as in game tweak/options. For when you potentially are wasting chances, taking to many shots, or generally not holding on to the ball enough.  

Valid point. There is no balance between left en right. 

The team instructions are the standard when you pick a starting point. Not really looked at those at all really...

While have a look at that. Thanks! 

48 minutes ago, DarJ said:

I think the problem is that you focused too much on creating the 3-2 shape at the back that you didn't think about how it's going to work with the rest of the team.

Something that could help is think about how you want to score goals and draw on a piece of paper how the team would look like in the attacking phase then think about the roles that will give you that movement

I did focus on the 3-2 shape when building from the back, without thinking about how it's going to affect the rest of the team. And how the other 5 are going to play. 

Really good point you're making here, thanks. Will think about how I want the whole team to play, not just the defensive block while building up.  

[nully29]

You got the formation and out of possession instructions right.

Mentality is too high.

If you want IF on both wings, you need far post crosses. But you have WBIB and your RB is FBd, so he never crosses.

Between two BPD and DLP there's too much playmaking down there.

CMd is wasted with DM behind him and FBd on his side.

Aren't Mez and AML attacking the same zone?

There's no creator in AMC zone, or anywhere in offense for that matter. All attacking roles are finishers. Yet you play with lower tempo, shorter passing and WBIB

 

Edited December 24, 2021 by nully29

[Guest]

I often think of Cleon when he was still a mod on here, his ethos was always more I can feed you the fish but I'd  rather teach you to fish.

I stop, rewind and pause a heck of a lot when creating tactics something I learned from Cleon on here.

Where is it going wrong in attack and defend? I can see some issues with your tactic and I can see what you are trying to achieve but it would probably be best if you see these things.

I will always pause rewind and rewatch at the start of any transition till it ends.

At the start of a transition it's all about where the players are positioned and then slowly forward the transition watching how each individual positions himself during a transition right till the end of it, that being either a goal or a turnover. So if it's a corner or throw in to us it's the same transition for me so I set corners and throwins to be possesion orientated in my favour too.

When we turn it over I make a note of why we did, and then keep monitoring to see if it's a once off issue or if a pattern emerges.

So as an example one of my attacking winger dribbles too often with very meh dribbling ability and gets tackled and they counter us easily as we have a stack of players high up the pitch in transition so the conundrum is what do I do to to counter that?

Two options are to tone down the other roles so that we aren't caught out at the back or mould the player or his role so that he doesn't turn it over that often. There is also a chance that this player has no support or passing options so is literally left in a position where he has to try and dribble out of trouble.

Defensively I would do the same analysis from turnover to shot, whilst not ignoring by defenders attributes. I would be raging if I had Torres and Albiol both of whom are fine for playing a high line and having 3XG against so there is a huge fundamental problem there.

 Just the issues I can see with the tactic: I concur with the point about your mentality, a risky formation is being made riskier with your mentality but I like what you're trying to achieve.

On this pic is this a previous iteration of your tactic because I have no idea what number 11s role is in this tactic?

The second picture shows one of the issues, two players that look a little too isolated, so for me I would want a F9 that drops deeper and connects what is a very static midfield, I would also see how swapping the midfielders works because for me it would provide a bit of help down a vulnerable flank whilst also helping your right inside forward with some support.

In that pic you have a natural overload forming on the left but then your right IF is on support yet the point of the overload is to free up that man on the right so he can attack the goal but he's being hamstrung by starting deeper.

You could create overloads either side by using focus play on either flank which if you had a False 9 would see him moving laterally to help form the overloads.  If a F9 isn't what you want for those two strikers I'd think of other ways to achieve what you want but not to keep it too unbalanced 

One other point is that if you are wanting to focus the other teams attacking play towards your central midfielders I would watch Rashidis YouTube vid on OI pressing to force wide players to funnel the ball towards those central midfielders.

Think we would need PKMs of the tactic in play to really help because clearly there are fundamental problems either side of the ball that needs analyzing.

 

 

 

Edited December 25, 2021 by Crazy_Ivan

[Sloak]

What I’ve found when building up in a 3-2-5 (or a 3-1-6 actually) is that there’s a really delicate balance in mentality. You have to fit right into the sweet spot where the back 5 isn't just hoofing it to your front line, but they’re brave enough to exploit openings when they open up. The fact that you have good possession with an attacking mentality kind of worries me though as I’ve always found attacking to be too aggressive of a mentality to build in the 3-2-5, but if it works for your players it works. I’d look at that possession and make sure it’s actually serving a purpose though.
 

The ball moving through the back 5 should create unmarked players, or open space for the front 5 to momentarily drop into. If it’s not, this could be a problem of roles, or a problem of attributes. The roles look good overall to me, though I would change the AMR to something that holds its width. The MCR might also be able to be changed into a B2B or CMs to help fill the gap as the AMR is pushed wider.

 

However, it may be a problem with your players themselves. Building up like this requires a lot of technical ability out of your defenders and midfield, and I found I often underestimated how important technical ability is. Your defenders are asked to do midfield levels of passing in this system, so you’ll need to have really high quality passers back there to generate the balls over the top and build through the lines the way you’re looking for.

Edited December 26, 2021 by Sloak

[Brian]

On 25/12/2021 at 09:09, Crazy_Ivan said:

I often think of Cleon when he was still a mod on here, his ethos was always more I can feed you the fish but I'd  rather teach you to fish.

I stop, rewind and pause a heck of a lot when creating tactics something I learned from Cleon on here.

Where is it going wrong in attack and defend? I can see some issues with your tactic and I can see what you are trying to achieve but it would probably be best if you see these things.

I will always pause rewind and rewatch at the start of any transition till it ends.

At the start of a transition it's all about where the players are positioned and then slowly forward the transition watching how each individual positions himself during a transition right till the end of it, that being either a goal or a turnover. So if it's a corner or throw in to us it's the same transition for me so I set corners and throwins to be possesion orientated in my favour too.

When we turn it over I make a note of why we did, and then keep monitoring to see if it's a once off issue or if a pattern emerges.

So as an example one of my attacking winger dribbles too often with very meh dribbling ability and gets tackled and they counter us easily as we have a stack of players high up the pitch in transition so the conundrum is what do I do to to counter that?

Two options are to tone down the other roles so that we aren't caught out at the back or mould the player or his role so that he doesn't turn it over that often. There is also a chance that this player has no support or passing options so is literally left in a position where he has to try and dribble out of trouble.

Defensively I would do the same analysis from turnover to shot, whilst not ignoring by defenders attributes. I would be raging if I had Torres and Albiol both of whom are fine for playing a high line and having 3XG against so there is a huge fundamental problem there.

 Just the issues I can see with the tactic: I concur with the point about your mentality, a risky formation is being made riskier with your mentality but I like what you're trying to achieve.

On this pic is this a previous iteration of your tactic because I have no idea what number 11s role is in this tactic?

The second picture shows one of the issues, two players that look a little too isolated, so for me I would want a F9 that drops deeper and connects what is a very static midfield, I would also see how swapping the midfielders works because for me it would provide a bit of help down a vulnerable flank whilst also helping your right inside forward with some support.

In that pic you have a natural overload forming on the left but then your right IF is on support yet the point of the overload is to free up that man on the right so he can attack the goal but he's being hamstrung by starting deeper.

You could create overloads either side by using focus play on either flank which if you had a False 9 would see him moving laterally to help form the overloads.  If a F9 isn't what you want for those two strikers I'd think of other ways to achieve what you want but not to keep it too unbalanced 

One other point is that if you are wanting to focus the other teams attacking play towards your central midfielders I would watch Rashidis YouTube vid on OI pressing to force wide players to funnel the ball towards those central midfielders.

Think we would need PKMs of the tactic in play to really help because clearly there are fundamental problems either side of the ball that needs analyzing.

 

 

 

Thank you for that very well, detailed piece of advice! 

It really helped my look at it another way. And look at it from another perspective. 

 

First results are promosing. But still much to learn. 

 

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