How does increase and decrease, the important match attribute ?

[jmpaparone]

Hello

I would like to know how this hidden attribute, "Important matches", work :

- Does it slowly increase with big matches experience (whatever what happens during big matches) ?

- Does it depend on the performance of the player during the big matches (which means that someone who is already bad, can become worst and worst across poor performances) ?

- Is it something else ?

I have some players which makes mistakes in every big matches (22-23 years old wonderkids with good attributes, but only a notation of 12 for big matches) and i "need" to know if they can stop blunder once they will get older , or if i can do something to help them to improve.

 

Thanks

Edited March 10, 2021 by jmpaparone

[HUNT3R]

5 hours ago, jmpaparone said:

Does it depend on the performance of the player during the big matches (which means that someone who is already bad, can become worst and worst across poor performances) ?

^  It's this.

If they perform well in big matches, it can increase. If they don't perform well in big matches, it can decrease.

[jmpaparone]

Ok but, int he same time, does it increase overtime with experience, even if they play only "normal" matches ? (without big importance). In this case, it would be a good strategy to make a wonderkid play only low importances matches, until they are ready to go to the big ones.

Thanks

[HUNT3R]

17 minutes ago, jmpaparone said:

Ok but, int he same time, does it increase overtime with experience, even if they play only "normal" matches ? (without big importance). In this case, it would be a good strategy to make a wonderkid play only low importances matches, until they are ready to go to the big ones.

Thanks

A low importance match have low importance. It doesn't have the pressure of an important match, so they're not comparable. Even a 'normal' match is just not the same as a match against your bitter rivals or a Champions League Final.

[jmpaparone]

Ok but it does not mean that you don't gain confidence in yourself over years, by playing more and more professional matches.

- IRL it could make sense that you become more and more ready to play big matches, even if you don't take part in big matche yet.

- In the same idea, IRL, we could consider that even if you play poorly in 1 big match, you will learn from it and become stronger for the next big matche.

But even if the IRL debate is open, i would like to be sure of what mechanism FM has retain for this attribute. So you maintain that there is no gain across time, and it is only a question of well/bad performing during the big matche ? I hope that's not the case, cause it could lead to some vicious circle. Thanks again.

[jmpaparone]

@HUNT3R Thanks for your answers, but you or someone of the staff ( @Seb Wassell ?) , maybe can answer to the last part ? Is there a gain across time or is it ONLY a question of well/bad performing during the big match ? Thanks

[Domus Clamantium]

What is a "big match"?

[HUNT3R]

 

[jmpaparone]

Yea the big match is relative to your team.

My questions are still up :

- Does the "important match" attribute increase over time (by playing normal match) ?

- Does it increase by playing important match (whatever the performance) ?

Or

- Does it only increase/decrease upon the the performance in big match ?

- Combination of previous quotation ?

@Seb Wassellwe need youuuuu Thanks

[FrazT]

The important matches attribute will only go up by the player improving his performance in important matches, so the answer to your first 2 questions will be no.

If a player performs well and consistently in big matches, then that attribute will increase as long as there are CA/PA points available.

[HUNT3R]

3 hours ago, FrazT said:

If a player performs well and consistently in big matches, then that attribute will increase as long as there are CA/PA points available.

Important Matches (and Consistency) doesn't take up CA.  

[FrazT]

17 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Important Matches (and Consistency) doesn't take up CA.  

Didnt know that ( or of course I did know that but had completely forgotten about it !)

[jmpaparone]

8 hours ago, FrazT said:

The important matches attribute will only go up by the player improving his performance in important matches, so the answer to your first 2 questions will be no.

If a player performs well and consistently in big matches, then that attribute will increase as long as there are CA/PA points available.

OK.... Well i'm kind of disappointed (but i accept that xD), meaning that someone bad in important match will be likely worse and worse, and someone good will become better and better (except if there is luck, but we can't base a strategy of improvement on that). Thanks

[HUNT3R]

50 minutes ago, jmpaparone said:

OK.... Well i'm kind of disappointed (but i accept that xD), meaning that someone bad in important match will be likely worse and worse, and someone good will become better and better (except if there is luck, but we can't base a strategy of improvement on that). Thanks

The trait doesn't necessarily mean a player will have a bad game. It's still possible to get performances out of such a player but there are of course many factors that will affect it. Also remember that there are levels to it. There's a big difference between "Doesn't feel comfortable" in a big match compared to "Dreads" a big match.

[jmpaparone]

I understand what you mean, but it is pretty random, and if the attribute does properly his job, it is likely to go badly for a player with "important matche" low rating.

Lets take a player with 5/20 in big matches rating. He will probably perform bad (rating 6 in matches) and stay bad. Whereas someone with 14/20 is likely to perform and improve....

 

To tell the truth, i don't understand why the development squad made this choice. I assumed that i missed something, that's why i ask my question. It is not usual for Football Manager to go this way, there is often a way to have some positive action on a bad attribute, at least for a little amelioration.

 

Unless of course, if the following assumption was true : whatever the important matches attribute, players will more often play good in big matche than badly. In this case, any player should gain rating across time, but player with high rating will improve faster (start higher rating, reach higher rating and faster) than the ones with low rating.

 

 

[HUNT3R]

The attribute =/= performance.

With a poor rating, it will mean he won't be able to play to his full ability in an important match, but that doesn't automatically mean it'll be a poor performance.

[rsihn]

On 13/03/2021 at 16:07, jmpaparone said:

@HUNT3R Thanks for your answers, but you or someone of the staff ( @Seb Wassell ?) , maybe can answer to the last part ? Is there a gain across time or is it ONLY a question of well/bad performing during the big match ? Thanks

Based on logging the hidden stats over multiple long term saves (20+ seasons), the actual performance is a major factor rather than just simply playing in the match.  Most players (approx. 75%) never improved in big matches over their careers, around 20% improved by 1 point, and the remaining 5% gained 2 points.  Nobody got more than 2 points.  It is a very difficult stat to raise (though nobody dropped any points in it either).  

 

3 hours ago, jmpaparone said:

I understand what you mean, but it is pretty random, and if the attribute does properly his job, it is likely to go badly for a player with "important matche" low rating.

Lets take a player with 5/20 in big matches rating. He will probably perform bad (rating 6 in matches) and stay bad. Whereas someone with 14/20 is likely to perform and improve....

This probably isn't quite the correct way to think about, in my opinion.  It is far more helpful to think of how it works across a whole team rather than individuals.  The performances of individual players or groups of players with higher big matches can raise the game for the rest of the players which allows even players with lower big match stats to get decent ratings or vice versa.  The big problem comes when you have too many players in a squad with low stats in big matches and it becomes near impossible to overcome the odds being stacked against you.   

[HUNT3R]

15 hours ago, rsihn said:

This probably isn't quite the correct way to think about, in my opinion.  It is far more helpful to think of how it works across a whole team rather than individuals.  The performances of individual players or groups of players with higher big matches can raise the game for the rest of the players which allows even players with lower big match stats to get decent ratings or vice versa.  The big problem comes when you have too many players in a squad with low stats in big matches and it becomes near impossible to overcome the odds being stacked against you.   

This is a good way of thinking, imo. In my league and CL winning team in FM20, in 2037, my first eleven all had decent ratings for Imp. matches. The lowest was 11 out of 20, but he was my best player. Over the years, he'd score a goal/match in the CL. His worst was 10(1) matches and 6 goals.

I've hidden this behind a spoiler because there are 2 real players in there and it shows CA/PA but looking back at my first CL win with the same team back in 2032:

Spoiler

That was my first 11 for the final. 4 players with 4 for important matches. Rossi even has 4 for pressure as well. It was a close match against a much better side, but we edged it 2-1. Goal scorers were Matousek and Ramazzotti. Matousek had an assist too.

This was a team that had obvious weak points in big matches, but others who were strong in big matches and when the pressure was on. The GK and DR, both with 4 for Imp Matches eventually retired still at my club, so I didn't move them on.