Tottenham - Mourinho's tactic (Trying to learn and waiting for suggestions)

[newlearnerguy]

 

I want to apply Mourinho's tactics to the Tottenham team. But i'm new to this game yet. As far as I learned from the forum, I was able to do this much. I am waiting for your advice.

[CJ_Randell]

In my opinion the RB for Spurs is more attacking and the RW is less offensive than the LW. 

I'd change Doherty to a FB-At and Bale to IW-Su.

Hojbjerg I'm not sure is a DLP, he doesn't seem to attract the ball too much but more so breaks up play and finds other players in the team. So maybe a DM-De would be a more accurate role? 

Also I'd personally use Kane as a CF-Su so he offers more of an attacking threat. 

 

As you've used a defensive formation, you might want to consider adding 'tighter marking' as an instruction. 

[Atarin]

The thing about Spurs this season is that there's been some tactical flexibility. Depending on who's playing left back (Davies or Reguillon) and who's alongside Hjoberg (Winks or Sissoko)  and whether Bale is playing wide right or Moura.

When Davies plays left back he's a FB(d) and that gives Hjoberg licence to support the transition as a DM(s). When Reguillon is playing he's a FB(a) and Hjoberg plays a much more conservative DM(d) or Anchor Man.

Mourinho uses Dier as the BPD on the left and Alderweireld as a regular centre back on the right.

Aurier and Doherty have mostly been used as WB(s). They don't get ahead of play early, they move up with the transition. They are a little more aggressive when Davies plays but they're still not part of the advanced attack.

Winks, when he plays, is almost always a BWM(s) these days. His job is pressurising the player on the ball.

Sissoko has had a number of roles under JM from babysitting the right back as a Carrilleiro/BWM(d) to a BBM getting Spurs up the pitch quickly all on his own.

Ndombele has had three different jobs depending on the opposition. When Sissoko is missing its Ndombele's job to carry the ball as a CM(a)/BBM. When Sissoko is in the side then Ndombele wins the ball, gets it to the forwards and makes supporting runs as a BWM(s). He has also, at times, been paired with Kane as a sort of SS(a)/DF(s) operating as part of a two man front line in the defensive phase.

Out wide there is a lot of variety. Son generally plays as an orthodox IF(a) but when you're trying to recreate his deeper defensive position in a flat midfield then you're probably better off playing him as a W(a) or IW(a). Bale hasn't played anything like a winger or inside forward so far, he's just not mobile enough at the moment. He's mostly playing as an AP(s). Moura operates as a DW(s) or an IW(a) depending on the situation. Lamela, when he plays, is an IF(a).

Kane has played in a number of different roles depending on the circumstance. When Spurs are in control he plays as a DLF(a) or CF(s). He has also played as a TM(s), AF(a), F9, DF(s), DF(d) and even as a full blown attacking midfielder.

I wouldn't think of a JM-Spurs recreation as tactic as much as a set of principles. The first and most important principle is that when Spurs take the lead, unless there is a very high chance of more goals, then Spurs go into a compact, direct counter approach with Kane taking up a DLF(s) position on the halfway line and the wingers dropping deep but always ready for a rapid counter off of a Kane control, pivot, release. Kane and Hjoberg are central to everything Spurs do. You want to be getting Kane dropping deep into midfield to create strong numerical advantage in that area. Everything else stems from that.

[Experienced Defender]

I think you pinpointed the roles and duties of Kane, Son, Hojbjerg, Sissoko, both CBs and Lloris. However, when it comes to both fullbacks, CM and AMR, I fear you got them wrong. I would play both fullbacks as WB on support duty, AMR as IW on support and Ndombele as CM on attack.

Instructions-wise, I don't think that Mourinho would combine attacking mentality with more urgent pressing, given his affinity for highly disciplined defense. 

[ACKCHYUALLYSOCCERCOACH]

Spurs are very flexible and change almost every game. An interesting interpretation would be:

                               DLF(S)

                IF(A)        AM(S)        IF(S)



                     DLP(D)         DM(S)

         WB(S)     CD(D)     BPD(D)     WB(S)

                                GK(D)

Mentality: Balanced
Offensive Organisation: Narrow Width, Pass Into Space, Higher Tempo
In Transition: Counter, Distribute to CBs
Defensive Organisation: Lower LOE, Use Tighter Marking, Get Stuck In, Split Block PIs on front four
Alterations: Obviously the mentality can be altered, Hojbjerg to DM if you want to play faster in transition, Kane to CF(S) or DLF(A), RW to IW(S) or IW(A), Ndombele can be an AM(A) or can be dropped deeper as a BBM or CM(A) although in real life you will regularly see him applying pressure higher up the pitch and marking the opposition DM.

Edited January 12, 2021 by ACKCHYUALLYSOCCERCOACH

[newlearnerguy]

9 hours ago, Atarin said:

The thing about Spurs this season is that there's been some tactical flexibility. Depending on who's playing left back (Davies or Reguillon) and who's alongside Hjoberg (Winks or Sissoko)  and whether Bale is playing wide right or Moura.

When Davies plays left back he's a FB(d) and that gives Hjoberg licence to support the transition as a DM(s). When Reguillon is playing he's a FB(a) and Hjoberg plays a much more conservative DM(d) or Anchor Man.

Mourinho uses Dier as the BPD on the left and Alderweireld as a regular centre back on the right.

Aurier and Doherty have mostly been used as WB(s). They don't get ahead of play early, they move up with the transition. They are a little more aggressive when Davies plays but they're still not part of the advanced attack.

Winks, when he plays, is almost always a BWM(s) these days. His job is pressurising the player on the ball.

Sissoko has had a number of roles under JM from babysitting the right back as a Carrilleiro/BWM(d) to a BBM getting Spurs up the pitch quickly all on his own.

Ndombele has had three different jobs depending on the opposition. When Sissoko is missing its Ndombele's job to carry the ball as a CM(a)/BBM. When Sissoko is in the side then Ndombele wins the ball, gets it to the forwards and makes supporting runs as a BWM(s). He has also, at times, been paired with Kane as a sort of SS(a)/DF(s) operating as part of a two man front line in the defensive phase.

Out wide there is a lot of variety. Son generally plays as an orthodox IF(a) but when you're trying to recreate his deeper defensive position in a flat midfield then you're probably better off playing him as a W(a) or IW(a). Bale hasn't played anything like a winger or inside forward so far, he's just not mobile enough at the moment. He's mostly playing as an AP(s). Moura operates as a DW(s) or an IW(a) depending on the situation. Lamela, when he plays, is an IF(a).

Kane has played in a number of different roles depending on the circumstance. When Spurs are in control he plays as a DLF(a) or CF(s). He has also played as a TM(s), AF(a), F9, DF(s), DF(d) and even as a full blown attacking midfielder.

I wouldn't think of a JM-Spurs recreation as tactic as much as a set of principles. The first and most important principle is that when Spurs take the lead, unless there is a very high chance of more goals, then Spurs go into a compact, direct counter approach with Kane taking up a DLF(s) position on the halfway line and the wingers dropping deep but always ready for a rapid counter off of a Kane control, pivot, release. Kane and Hjoberg are central to everything Spurs do. You want to be getting Kane dropping deep into midfield to create strong numerical advantage in that area. Everything else stems from that.

 

You have been very helpful. thank you so much. what do you think of the team instructions?

[Atarin]

3 hours ago, newlearnerguy said:

 

You have been very helpful. thank you so much. what do you think of the team instructions?

Start with Mentality. Spurs have a control style and a Counter style. When they're in control they play a patient possession game in the opponent's half. I'd go with Positive. When Spurs are looking to let the opposition have the ball and rely on counters. In this scenario the ball goes short into midfield and then direct. More Attacking mentalities would seem to fit this style. You'll need to adjust player Duties and TI's like Width, Tempo, Defensive Line, LOE but Attacking would seem to me to be the way to go.

I've never really tried to recreate real life tactics so this is just me working things through off the cuff.

[dunk105]

17 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

I think you pinpointed the roles and duties of Kane, Son, Hojbjerg, Sissoko, both CBs and Lloris. However, when it comes to both fullbacks, CM and AMR, I fear you got them wrong. I would play both fullbacks as WB on support duty, AMR as IW on support and Ndombele as CM on attack.

Instructions-wise, I don't think that Mourinho would combine attacking mentality with more urgent pressing, given his affinity for highly disciplined defense. 

Bale has no defensive duties for Spurs- he simply hasnt got the fitness to track back so definitely not support and absolutely not an inverted winger as he doesnt run at the defence, he's more of a Raumdeuter the way he has played (when he has played) this season.

The Fullback duties for Spurs vary on personnel as all 4 are very different players:

Reglion should be a CWB-S

Daves WB-D

Aurier FB-A

Doherty WB-S

[Experienced Defender]

28 minutes ago, dunk105 said:

Bale has no defensive duties for Spurs- he simply hasnt got the fitness to track back so definitely not support and absolutely not an inverted winger

I was not talking about Bale specifically, but the type of setup that would make sense for a recreation of Mourinho's Spurs tactic. He rarely uses Bale as part of the starting 11 anyway. 

[mp_87]

Agree with a fair bit of what @Atarin has already said. The approach and roles used are flexible and vary depending on the opposition. My thoughts:

Lloris is a standard GK defend these days.

The centre backs are, as already said, the other way around. Dier on the left, Alderweireld on the right. Dier has a bit more license to play out so is maybe a BPD (unless he has brings ball out of defence trait, cant remember), Alderweireld is a standard CB. Whatever the opposition, there isn't a huge amount of playing out from the back, if it isn't on very quickly the ball gets sent long or down the channels or switched to the opposite flank.

Fullbacks - At first under Mourinho it was very rigid with the left back very defensive whilst the right back played very high, but that has changed. Reguilon's role is difficult, I wouldn't say he is ultra aggressive but he does get ahead of play at times and when the transition/counter is on he has license to motor forward down the left flank. I think FB(a) is probably the right role. Davies isn't as defensive as he was last season, but out of all them is still the 'safest' selection, I'd go with FB(s) with 'hold position'. Right backs work their way up the pitch as the ball progresses, I'd go WB(s) for both.

The centre midfield roles change depending on the opposition. For me, against big teams they're in the DM strata, in easier games they're in the CM strata. I also think whatever the opposition the duo is very careful and rarely get ahead of the ball and have to be very disciplined.

Hojbjerg plays as either a DM(d) or CM(d) alongside Sissoko, who in turn is hard to pigeonhole but I'd say is probably a DM or CM(s). His comfort zone is to drop to the right hand side so maybe experiment with stay wider instruction. If Winks and Hojbjerg play together one plays as the CM(d) whilst the other plays as BWM (d or s) with a bit more license to press and hunt down the opposition, but they have swapped roles this season when paired.

Ndombele plays as either a CM(s) or AM(s), he connects the midfield to the attack and will float around to pick up the ball without being a playmaker and the behaviours that will incur in FM. Also gets forward eventually to support the three attackers and chip in with odd goal. When Spurs are sitting deeper, it is often his job to carry the ball upfield and relieve pressure. So 'run with ball' maybe a situational PI.

The wide roles are the most difficult to get right in FM. They're expected to get back in behind the ball plenty, but then other times (strong or weaker opposition) they 'gamble' and don't get back in and are in positions waiting for the ball to be cleared and to counter. I don't think this is possible to replicate. They're also pretty fluid and will pop up over the field and I'm not sure the Roam from Position PI does enough justice to this.

But anyway.... Son either plays as a WM/IW(a) when sitting deep or IF/RM(a), I think he is more of an off the ball runner personally than an FM winger type but others will disagree. Bergwijn is selected mostly for his work rate and defensive effort at the moment, and plays as a DW(s) or IW(a) depending on opposition. Moura the same, but usually plays the smaller games so I'd say IW(a), Bale..... doesn't do a lot..... AP(s) is about right, Lamela either AP(s) or IF(s) depending on the situation.

Kane - Agree with Atarin, his role varies so much. When sitting deep he is the most advanced player (DLF or CF), and the ball gets played into him to control and then feed those running past him. If it's a game where Spurs will have more of the ball he is dropping deeper and deeper. Sometimes an F9, sometimes even an attacking midfielder, it isn't uncommon at the moment to see both wide men and the Number 10 in front of him.

 

Other tactical stuff:

So in weaker games I'd say it's a 4-2-3-1 shape. Tougher games I'd move all 'midfielders' back a strata. And at times it is almost a 4-4-2-0.

Spurs don't play a lot of football. Pragmatism rules. The defence will send it long a plenty. There isn't a huge amount of possession and constructing moves to slice through the opposition. Quick counters and transitions are the key. If that isn't the source of goals then usually it's from an early cross or set piece. If they go ahead they are more than happy to sit in a compact block and manage the game and pick the opposition off on the counter if they can. The 'Be more disciplined' TI was surely made for this type of football.....

Corners - Ball is aimed at Alderweireld and Dier attacking the near post, Kane attacks from the centre or far post.

[newlearnerguy]

@mp_87 @Experienced Defender @dunk105 @ACKCHYUALLYSOCCERCOACH CJ_Randell

thank you for all suggestions. I learned things i didn't know when i trying what you told. But i didn't get positions like IRL in FM21 i think this is mostly impossible because 

2 hours ago, mp_87 said:

The wide roles are the most difficult to get right in FM. They're expected to get back in behind the ball plenty, but then other times (strong or weaker opposition) they 'gamble' and don't get back in and are in positions waiting for the ball to be cleared and to counter. I don't think this is possible to replicate. They're also pretty fluid and will pop up over the field and I'm not sure the Roam from Position PI does enough justice to this.

this one is happened to me a lot. But when i trying with Son is a AF and Kane CF(s) . I started to get the positions i wanted. But i know that the football i'm playing at the moment doesn't belong to Mourinho  

But I can say that I have difficulties with most of the team instructions. i can 't  decide which one is work for me especially attack width, passing style and goalkeeper transitons

Edited January 12, 2021 by newlearnerguy