FM21 - Struggling with a "quiet, leaky" Real Madrid side

[footballtoast]

Hi all,

Long time lurker, first time poster - having a bit of a struggle to impose myself on games, particular against weaker teams - both home and away.  Defensive analysis suggests we are "quiet and leaky" which is born out by what I see in game - I don't concede many shots but I seem to be able to be countered really easily and my defenders are what I'd describe as passive.

In fact, I'm passive in attack too, seem to have to work very hard for the most basic openings and I understand that being Real, other teams will be defensive, I just seem to be making it really easy for other teams!

I read a fair bit of the posts on the forum and feel I have a reasonable handle on getting a balanced tactic but I'm ready to be schooled by whoever is willing to help me.

Tactic below - thoughts welcome!

Cheers

[frukox]

As Real Madrid, I guess you are looking for help for a successful possession-based high block as most opponents would just sit deep. So my proposed changes would be role/duty-wise:

SK(D) to SK(S)

PF(S) to CF(S)

IF(A) to IF(S)

MEZ(S) to CM(S)

When it comes to your tactic, simple ones are easier to manage. However, you may think of adding narrow width, overlap left, counter, counterpress, higher or much higher LOE, stay on feet. Don't forget to set up your set-pieces. Good luck,mate:)

 

[footballtoast]

3 minutes ago, frukox said:

As Real Madrid, I guess you are looking for help for a successful possession-based high block as most opponents would just sit deep. So my proposed changes would be role/duty-wise:

SK(D) to SK(S)

PF(S) to CF(S)

IF(A) to IF(S)

MEZ(S) to CM(S)

When it comes to your tactic, simple ones are easier to manage. However, you may think of adding narrow width, overlap left, counter, counterpress, higher or much higher LOE, stay on feet. Don't forget to set up your set-pieces. Good luck,mate:)

 

Cheers pal - defo think I need to keep two non-roaming central midfielders so will look at changing the mezzala to something a little more defensive.  Looking at something tilted towards possession but not precious about it - just trial and error I guess! I've tried to keep TIs to a minimum to keep it simple, just hard to always see which one (or combinations) is making a tangible difference - though I do think this years ME makes it easier to do that.

As for set pieces - I'm getting there, tweaking as I go and abandoning an ill-conceived long throw routine...

[frukox]

4 minutes ago, footballtoast said:

Cheers pal - defo think I need to keep two non-roaming central midfielders so will look at changing the mezzala to something a little more defensive.  Looking at something tilted towards possession but not precious about it - just trial and error I guess! I've tried to keep TIs to a minimum to keep it simple, just hard to always see which one (or combinations) is making a tangible difference - though I do think this years ME makes it easier to do that.

As for set pieces - I'm getting there, tweaking as I go and abandoning an ill-conceived long throw routine...

Watching matches in full will teach you a lot. Take one step then, watch how it unfolds. Then, do another if you are not happy. This is the way to go to understand all roles/duties and instructions. I'm happy if I am of some help:)

[footballtoast]

1 hour ago, frukox said:

Watching matches in full will teach you a lot. Take one step then, watch how it unfolds. Then, do another if you are not happy. This is the way to go to understand all roles/duties and instructions. I'm happy if I am of some help:)

Made some changes and seem to have a little more intent going forward, but still seem to be able to be countered at will, and if I'm leading by a single goal going into the last 15mins it's always harem scarem, eyes closed madness!

[Zemahh]

2 hours ago, footballtoast said:

Defensive analysis suggests we are "quiet and leaky" which is born out by what I see in game - I don't concede many shots but I seem to be able to be countered really easily and my defenders are what I'd describe as passive.

Not surprising you're getting countered, when you're only leaving CM-De and CBs back to defend; MEZ will push high up the pitch and so will both WBs. This issue is then also compounded by the Positive Mentality, which encourages players to take a fair amount of risk, meaning keeping possession won't be their main concern.

To increase defensive stability, you can try out these two tweaks:

• MEZ -> BWM-Su (make up for TREQs lack of closing down and provide defensive cover for the overlapping WB)
• Positive -> Balanced (slightly lower general risk-taking profile, since the 4-2-3-1 is already quite adventurous by itself; look for openings patiently, rather than rush things and get countered)

 

2 hours ago, footballtoast said:

In fact, I'm passive in attack too, seem to have to work very hard for the most basic openings and I understand that being Real, other teams will be defensive, I just seem to be making it really easy for other teams!

You're most likely struggling for space because you're congesting middle areas too much (reducing space for your own players). You're correct in that you will be facing mostly defensive opposition (deep and narrow defences), so you should try stretching them out instead of cramming everyone into central areas (both wide forwards cutting inside).

WBs can provide width, but playing on Positive Mentality, your attacking transitions are most likely too fast for them to make any real impact (ball could be lost before they had a chance to overlap). Balanced Mentality or Lower Tempo could help that to a degree, but I'd still look to add some variety to your attacks—W-At + FB-Su on one flank and IW/IF-Su + WB-At on another (as long as CM on that side provides sufficient defensive cover, as suggested above). That way you have one flank stretching the play, and another cutting inside, consequently dragging opposition FB with him and opening up space for your overlapping WB.

Hopefully that gives you some ideas!

[footballtoast]

12 minutes ago, Zemahh said:

Not surprising you're getting countered, when you're only leaving CM-De and CBs back to defend; MEZ will push high up the pitch and so will both WBs. This issue is then also compounded by the Positive Mentality, which encourages players to take a fair amount of risk, meaning keeping possession won't be their main concern.

To increase defensive stability, you can try out these two tweaks:

• MEZ -> BWM-Su (make up for TREQs lack of closing down and provide defensive cover for the overlapping WB)
• Positive -> Balanced (slightly lower general risk-taking profile, since the 4-2-3-1 is already quite adventurous by itself; look for openings patiently, rather than rush things and get countered)

 

You're most likely struggling for space because you're congesting middle areas too much (reducing space for your own players). You're correct in that you will be facing mostly defensive opposition (deep and narrow defences), so you should try stretching them out instead of cramming everyone into central areas (both wide forwards cutting inside).

WBs can provide width, but playing on Positive Mentality, your attacking transitions are most likely too fast for them to make any real impact (ball could be lost before they had a chance to overlap). Balanced Mentality or Lower Tempo could help that to a degree, but I'd still look to add some variety to your attacks—W-At + FB-Su on one flank and IW/IF-Su + WB-At on another (as long as CM on that side provides sufficient defensive cover, as suggested above). That way you have one flank stretching the play, and another cutting inside, consequently dragging opposition FB with him and opening up space for your overlapping WB.

Hopefully that gives you some ideas!

Appreciate the detailed response, definitely has given me some food for thought! Always felt Balanced was too passive a mentality for a bigger club - in that it was counter intuitive to pare back mentality when you are expected to be the more attacking side in most games.

That said, in a top heavy formation like 4231 maybe it helps to provide some...clarity...in attack.

Anywho, I'll give this a go tomorrow and see where it takes me!  Cheers!

[Bigpapa42]

Zinedine? Is that you? 

[footballtoast]

7 hours ago, Bigpapa42 said:

Zinedine? Is that you? 

FM21 bringing a level of realism I wasn't prepared for!

[Johnny Ace]

Your TI's look fine

Flip the midfield duties so the support midfield "supports" the attacking flank & the defend midfield holds position behind the support flank

A Mezzela is probably too exotic a role, those two in 4-2-3-1 need to be solid all rounders 

Then have a more conservative FB on the left, just like a FB(S) 

 

[footballtoast]

1 hour ago, Johnny Ace said:

Your TI's look fine

Flip the midfield duties so the support midfield "supports" the attacking flank & the defend midfield holds position behind the support flank

A Mezzela is probably too exotic a role, those two in 4-2-3-1 need to be solid all rounders 

Then have a more conservative FB on the left, just like a FB(S) 

 

Funny I always felt I needed a defensive role in CM on the side of the attacking wide forward...but your reasoning makes perfect sense if partnered with a less aggressive full back role. I'll experiment. Cheers!