Creating a 3-4-2-1

[Paulz]

Hi, I've just started a new game with Roma and want to develop a moderately possession based 3-4-2-1, much like they use at the moment and other teams in Italy and Atletico Madrid are using. 

I haven't created a 3-4-3 type tactic before so looking for some help on what roles and instructions to use. I'm looking for my DLF and SS to be my main goal threats, and have quite a stable central midfield as the basis. Potentially with the 3 man defence I could be more adventurous with a role though.

Has anyone else had success with this formation and can provide advice?

Edited December 1, 2020 by Paulz

[Experienced Defender]

The 5221 as a formation is not a bad choice for a possession-minded style, especially if it's not slow and patient possession but rather more progressive. 

Roles and duties don't look bad either, except for the left flank, which looks fairly vulnerable defense-wise, as there is no real midfield cover for the attacking WB. And given that you want a (basically) possession-oriented style, I would recommend changing the CM on support into a DLP on support and WB on attack into WB on support or (alternatively) CWB on support, possibly with the Underlap left team instruction added. 

Focus play through the middle could prove problematic against defensive opposition, as that's exactly the area those teams will crowd with players. 

It's hard to say if some more tweaks would be needed before you test the tactic, so these were just my initial impressions. 

[Paulz]

Thank you! I definitely prefer while having possession for it to be progressive rather than just side to side. I've made those changes to the tactic, I think the DLP support role suits a number of my players so that will hopefully work well.

What are your thoughts on playing slightly wider than the default with this tactic? I was thinking about your comment that against defensive opponents they are likely to pack the middle and this may help focus the play around it, but equally does this clash with work ball into box and shorter passing as I believe it will increase the space between players.  

(Sorry for the size of the screenshots, there doesn't seem to be an option to make them smaller)

Edited December 2, 2020 by Paulz

[marko82]

I tried it in FM 20, its very stable defensively, sometimes against teams who play with 3 central backs and DMC chances are not easy to make and a lot depends on wing backs, but i guess its much better in FM 21s match engine
I was 3rd at the end of season,  wins against Lazio 4:1, Juve 2:0, Napoli 3:0 (oh the irony),   
Roles:
Pau Lopez SK su
Mancini BPD su with stay wider
Ibanez BDP su (stay wider)
Smalling CD co
Spinny CWB su
Karsdorp CWB su
Veretout and Pellegrini as MC su, Pellegrini on the side of Pedro and with more risky pass PI (they cover really good and Pellegrini has a lot of assists)
Pedro as IF su and Mkhtiaryan as AP at, both with sit narrower instruction
Džeko as DLF at (when Zaniolo was back from injury i put him to play this position and he scored or assisted almost every game, Roma in real life has this problem of Džeko not being mobile enough sometimes, he was non existent in game against Napoli on Sunday, he should be kind of a pivot in the attack but he doesn't involve enough because of his work rate)
 

Edited December 2, 2020 by marko82
missing text

[Haiku]

Interesting. I'm  about to try a similar strategy, but with Halfback instead of 3rd defender. I'm unsure how to set up the two center halves with them having excellent mental attributes, but no spectacular technical ability (Christoph Kramer, Nahitan Nandez)

[Paulz]

3 hours ago, marko82 said:

I tried it in FM 20, its very stable defensively, sometimes against teams who play with 3 central backs and DMC chances are not easy to make and a lot depends on wing backs, but i guess its much better in FM 21s match engine
I was 3rd at the end of season,  wins against Lazio 4:1, Juve 2:0, Napoli 3:0 (oh the irony),   
Roles:
Pau Lopez SK su
Mancini BPD su with stay wider
Ibanez BDP su (stay wider)
Smalling CD co
Spinny CWB su
Karsdorp CWB su
Veretout and Pellegrini as MC su, Pellegrini on the side of Pedro and with more risky pass PI (they cover really good and Pellegrini has a lot of assists)
Pedro as IF su and Mkhtiaryan as AP at, both with sit narrower instruction
Džeko as DLF at (when Zaniolo was back from injury i put him to play this position and he scored or assisted almost every game, Roma in real life has this problem of Džeko not being mobile enough sometimes, he was non existent in game against Napoli on Sunday, he should be kind of a pivot in the attack but he doesn't involve enough because of his work rate)
 

 

Thanks for the details, I will have a look at the PIs as I test this. Interesting about Dzeko as I am seeing that he is doing ok but not scoring, while when I play Mayoral he scores almost every game. I was wondering if using Dzeko as a TM instead could lead to a better result. With his wages I would like him to contribute more, but I haven't played that many games so this may change

Edited December 2, 2020 by Paulz

[dcu4life]

You might want to try changing the WBs to wingers or defensive wingers. I've used a 3-4-2-1 a lot in FM20 (flat 4 across midfield) and I've found that the wingers often chip in with goals and I'm still very solid defensively. I do play a very direct style with that formation though, but I see no reason why the pattern wouldn't hold for a possession-oriented system too. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by dcu4life

[Experienced Defender]

12 hours ago, Paulz said:

What are your thoughts on playing slightly wider than the default with this tactic?

I don't think it's necessary. First, you use shorter passing and generally have a possession-oriented tactical setup, so you don't need the players to be farther away from one another. On top of that, your team mentality (positive) automatically gives you a bit wider width by default. Last but not least, your attack-minded wing-back roles are providing the system with enough width anyway. 

[Paulz]

14 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

I don't think it's necessary. First, you use shorter passing and generally have a possession-oriented tactical setup, so you don't need the players to be farther away from one another. On top of that, your team mentality (positive) automatically gives you a bit wider width by default. Last but not least, your attack-minded wing-back roles are providing the system with enough width anyway. 

Thanks for the information and I wasn't aware that a positive team mentality gives additional width so that's good to know! 

[kevaggel]

I was using the same formation but different roles, in fm20 with Hellas Verona. The concept was counter-attack utilizing long passes towards a target-man with two shadow strikers behind him.

You may want to defend narrow, lurring opposition in the flanks to cross since you have 3DCs to deal with them.

BPD-St may be able to provide cover in the flanks when wingbacks are up front, compared to BPD-De they tend to move into wider positions.

If you there is large space between defenders and midfielders, during a defensive transition, that opposition is exploiting one solution is to use a Libero-Su who will be positioned between the two lines when you have possession.

Edited December 3, 2020 by kevaggel

[Paulz]

Thanks for the ideas, I'm trying to play more possession focused rather than counter attack, but against stronger opponents that could work., 

Currently my main issue is trying to get my CF to score or at least create chances on a regular basis. Its proving a struggle

[kevaggel]

You have to identify the problem in order to solve it,

Is your striker receiving enough passes ?

If no, then is it his problem, other players behind him or tactical ? ...

When he get the ball, does he have options ?

That way you may be able with try and error to fix your striker problem.

[Paulz]

>Checking the stats from my last match and Dzeko received the 3rd lowest number of passes after my gk and a cb, and looking at a few other games as well this does seem to be a trend. He certainly isn't receiving many passes and from what I can tell many of them are being received outside of the area which really isn't going to suit his game.