[FM20] Iron Curtain - In hindsight everything is 2020 (Released)

[josuts]

15 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

You do realise that a request like that takes away valuable editing time

Send a PM with files and what you have in mind as possible changes and we will discuss privately. We can talk about things like testing and such as well.

yes of course I understand that it needs valuable time.And I thought about you as you have more skills in editing than me.And if you have some time you can look:) Here is the database I had edit but hadn't been able to test it for season as  my laptop has a poor performance and I need a new one

 

[Wolf_pd]

2 hours ago, josuts said:

yes of course I understand that it needs valuable time.And I thought about you as you have more skills in editing than me.And if you have some time you can look:) Here is the database I had edit but hadn't been able to test it for season as  my laptop has a poor performance and I need a new one

I have removed your attachment (after I downloaded it), to avoid confusion. Wouldn't want to have people mix up the files accidentally. Will take a look at it when I have the Yugoslavia and Czech republic base competition tests running. They take time, also on my computer.

[josuts]

3 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

I have removed your attachment (after I downloaded it), to avoid confusion. Wouldn't want to have people mix up the files accidentally. Will take a look at it when I have the Yugoslavia and Czech republic base competition tests running. They take time, also on my computer.

of course no problem.I understand.Thank you:)

[Wolf_pd]

Hoping to show some Czechoslovak Final version screenshots later this weekend.

[Wolf_pd]

The Czechoslovak competition is in its final test. Probably some minor editing to fix little bugs, but this is close to what the Final Version should look like, including correct Cup competition where the Czech Cup winner plays the Slovak Cup winner for the Czechoslovak Cup.

[Wolf_pd]

Screenshot time!

For now Czechoslovakia exists of 2 division levels. Level 1 is the Czechoslovakian Championship. Level 2 is divided in a Czech competition and a Slovak competition

The Czechoslovak Cup is essentially played as a Super Cup final, because it pits the Czech Cup winner against the Slovak Cup winner.

2 teams relegate to the second level. As you can see the Czech teams dominate. This is because the Slovak teams still have their Slovak players (the Players file is a separate file I haven't worked on yet), but in later years you see the Slovak teams come up the table again when the nextgens start flowing in.

And here we have the Czech and Slovak competitions at the second level. I haven't implemented dynamic relegation yet, which should be the case here (based on the historic final standings), but that's something for the expansion

And finally, yes I do make mistakes  I set up the Czechoslovak Cup correctly, I thought... But forget that in Advanced Rules the game will use the Baseyear 2000, so my setup date for the Czechoslovak Cup is 19 years in the future. Not going to work,

Anyway, I have noted down the various improvements to make, but this is the result of a good weekend of work and I am happy with it!

 

[Wolf_pd]

The West Germany build is progressing quickly. I expect to have screenshots of that one Tuesday. And the next weekend should see East Germany finished I hope!

[anthony.bilic21]

I would love to get my hands on the czechoslovakia alone, I was trying to build on my own, but for noob like me, the task is literally impossible. Cant wait to play this mod.

[Wolf_pd]

21 hours ago, anthony.bilic21 said:

I would love to get my hands on the czechoslovakia alone, I was trying to build on my own, but for noob like me, the task is literally impossible. Cant wait to play this mod.

I think using Czechoslovakia would be possible, if you manage to fill up Slovakia with a new nation.

[Wolf_pd]

I have started the West German competition is in its Final test with Bundesliga, 2. Bundesliga, the DFB Pokal and the DFL Supercup.

While setting up West Germany I was surprised at the lacking information for the loanrules, so I have to chase that. Also, I managed to find a page with ALL the games of the 1987/88 season, with teamsheets, playing time and everything. That will come in handy when I would expand on it by setting the dates more precise. I couldn't find Czechoslovakia there though

Tomorrow you will get West German screenshots and I will start working on East Germany tonight already!

[Reiver]

Some years ago when I thought of doing this for East Germany I found a website with as many as many final standings of the lower leagues as  possible as well as a huge list of teams per region, let me see if I still have it.

 

Here for the teams:

 

https://ddr-fussball-archiv.de/index.php/board,28.0.html?PHPSESSID=laonhmp4kpoc3bkqm8mscktf53

 

and here for the standings (you have to register):

 

https://ddr-fussball-archiv.de/index.php/board,52.0.html

 

 

Edited February 11, 2020 by Reiver

[Wolf_pd]

Nice one, thanks. That might filling out the lower league ranks a bit, because East Germany is not that worked as much as West Germany

[Wolf_pd]

Screenshot time for West Germany

Just the two leagues and two cups for West Germany. The Oberliga is the third level, but it is unplayable (as of now)

A bit too familiar sight here.... I might need to edit some budgets

I noticed I didn't put the correct ordening, so I will need to add/fix that

Suddenly noticed some special Russian Cups, but that will be fixed when I work on the Soviet Competition file.

And on to East Germany it is! I will probably need the full weekend. East Germany is about half the size of teams compared to Czechoslovakia, but almost every team needs to be namechecked. Also, since the German football teams behave a bit odd I have some other work to do here.

[anthony.bilic21]

Hey, do you have an estimated when you might be approx, finished with it? Just curious, no pressure or anything

[Wolf_pd]

At this moment, no, not yet.

The basework I did on the data makes me go faster than expected, but I am only able to work on it in the evenings and weekends. And not all weekends. Yugoslavia and Soviet Union are still big jobs coming up.

But a guess would be:

Februari: Finishing up the competitions, making a start on everything Western Europa

March: Western Europa foreign players finished and international competitions

April: Playerstuff

After that, it is a matter of finishing up.

The point is, I can either release or continue with lower levels.  For now I think I will focus on getting it released. There is so much information coming up that I have enough info to go down to city levels in some cases, but it takes a lot of effort and time.

[Reiver]

15 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

Nice one, thanks. That might filling out the lower league ranks a bit, because East Germany is not that worked as much as West Germany

Let me get you a few more links then - I created a huge database some 5 years ago and then never did the actual database, but I kept some of the links I used:

First, check the regional federation websites, some of them have tables from back then. Example: http://www.leipziger-fussballverband.de/cms2/index.php?page=291

Some websites also have tables for the higher regional leagues back then: https://www.fupa.net/liga/ddr-bezirksliga-dresden-58451/tabelle.html

i found this website of some guy that collects Pins that has lots of information about teams evolution: http://www.sscbb.de/text/brandenburgervereineoberhavelbarnim.html

And more of teams that played in regional leagues: https://www.deutscherfussball.info/DDR_Ligisten-E.htm

https://www.deutscherfussball.info/DDR_Bezirksligisten-Sa_Se.htm

https://www.deutscherfussball.info/DDR_Bezirksligisten-Ba_Be.htm

https://www.deutscherfussball.info/DDR_Bezirksligisten-Bi_Bu.htm

http://www.spitzerwinkel.de/Deutsch/DDR/bezirke/info/004/index.html

http://www.ddr-sportwappen-archiv.de/

Some of the links to the list don't work anymore but if you change the letters manually you get there. Even gives you information on what the stadiums were called back then.

 

Finally, You can have my incomplete list of teams, with current name, old name, stadium, region and what tier they would most likely go nowadays. It has almost 3000 entries.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BcbuezZ_9zSnN3gbXCbPTrT_gzLmzKw_kGg3Ka9zgzM/edit?usp=sharing

 

[Reiver]

BTW, what is your idea on what todo with teams that have since become defunct, like Vorwarts Frankfurt?

[Wolf_pd]

53 minutes ago, Reiver said:

Let me get you a few more links then - I created a huge database some 5 years ago and then never did the actual database, but I kept some of the links I used:

First, check the regional federation websites, some of them have tables from back then. Example: http://www.leipziger-fussballverband.de/cms2/index.php?page=291

Some websites also have tables for the higher regional leagues back then: https://www.fupa.net/liga/ddr-bezirksliga-dresden-58451/tabelle.html

i found this website of some guy that collects Pins that has lots of information about teams evolution: http://www.sscbb.de/text/brandenburgervereineoberhavelbarnim.html

And more of teams that played in regional leagues: https://www.deutscherfussball.info/DDR_Ligisten-E.htm

https://www.deutscherfussball.info/DDR_Bezirksligisten-Sa_Se.htm

https://www.deutscherfussball.info/DDR_Bezirksligisten-Ba_Be.htm

https://www.deutscherfussball.info/DDR_Bezirksligisten-Bi_Bu.htm

http://www.spitzerwinkel.de/Deutsch/DDR/bezirke/info/004/index.html

http://www.ddr-sportwappen-archiv.de/

Some of the links to the list don't work anymore but if you change the letters manually you get there. Even gives you information on what the stadiums were called back then.

 

Finally, You can have my incomplete list of teams, with current name, old name, stadium, region and what tier they would most likely go nowadays. It has almost 3000 entries.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BcbuezZ_9zSnN3gbXCbPTrT_gzLmzKw_kGg3Ka9zgzM/edit?usp=sharing

 

WOW! 

Thanks man! I don't think I will use it rightaway, but I have planned to expand all competitions and this will help me immensely!

With regards to the defunct teams, I have plans to revive them, but I am looking at the exact scenario to use. I will put the idea to paper, might be a nice discussion point.

[Wolf_pd]

On 12/02/2020 at 11:58, Reiver said:

BTW, what is your idea on what todo with teams that have since become defunct, like Vorwarts Frankfurt?

To revive defunct teams I have these rules in mind.

 - The team should have been active between 1988 and 2020 and has gone bust or has been merged in that period

- The 1988 situation is leading for the name

- All revived teams will start at the lowest possible level in the pyramid (Obviously this is going to be fun if there are teams than a level allows, meaning, what to do in case of multiple levels)

- If information is unknown, teams can (don't have to though) be revived, but will get a reputation of 1

Next to reviving defunct teams I am also looking at previous versions of the FM games. Copying that data will be easy, although I still would have to check. It is possible some teams are removed because of errors.

[Reiver]

Nice, I have another question then, the opposite - what will you do with teams formed after 1988, like Inter Leipzig or RB Leipzig?

[Wolf_pd]

Teams formed after 1988 remain in the competition. When communism disappeared the financial basis for football also disappeared, so the database would be a lot smaller suddenly. It is something I am looking into, and with a lot of teams being re-formed after going broke, there is usually a natural progression.

Except for Red Bull Leipzig

[Wolf_pd]

How is your day? This is mine

[Wolf_pd]

2 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

How is your day? This is mine

 

15 hours ago, Reiver said:

Nice, I have another question then, the opposite - what will you do with teams formed after 1988, like Inter Leipzig or RB Leipzig?

After renaming almost every team in East Germany I have 11 teams left that I can't rename based on a previous version of the team (excluding defunct teams). So I need to see if I can find something for that. Pretty sure though that I can set the East German Final version tonight and test it tomorrow.

[Wolf_pd]

East Germany is in test. So should have some screenshots tomorrow.

[Reiver]

Out of curiosity which 11?

[Wolf_pd]

These ones 10 ones, I managed to find one more, SV Pastow, SV Hanse Neubrandenburg, SpVgg Geratal, LFV Sachsen Leipzig, FSV Martinroda, FSV 06 Ohratal, FC International Leipzig, FC Förderkader René Schneider, FC An der Fahner Höhe
 

[Wolf_pd]

The DDR competition consists of the DDR Oberliga at level 1, the DDR Liga with two regional staffels (Staffel A, North and Staffel B, South) and the DDR Cup with this very long name.

The DDR Oberliga has two relegation places, one for each Staffel.

Staffel A seems to work as expected, with three relegation places and ordering rules in place.

But for some reason Staffel B has issues. Maybe that is because of the ordering rules still not working or not copying over properly from Basic Rules to Advanced Rules.

The Cup also looks to work properly, but the National stadium I set in Basic Rules and which I checked in the Advanced Rules, isn't used. So that is either a bug or I looked over something in the Advanced Rules

On to Yugoslavia!

[Reiver]

I believe the Waren vteam was usually known just as VB Waren.

 

Also, regarding PAstow, I found this (thank god for google translate):

 

On the 50th anniversary of SV Pastow e. V. In 1933, enthusiastic soccer players started in the catchment area of today's SV Pastow e. V. to do sports. A team participated in the point game operation, a student team was formed. Among others, F. W. Knuths and the brothers Hans and Heinz Pinnow played here! During the Second World War, training and competition operations came to a standstill. A few years after the war, sporting life gradually developed again. Organized sport began in our territory with the founding of SG Traktor Pastow. The founding members included a. Christoph Dech I and II, Günther Köppe, Uwe Westphal, F.W. Knuths and Alfred Malcherek. The sports of soccer, chess, horse riding and boxing developed. Archery was even added later. From February 1960 the new sports field was built at the end of Pastow in the direction of Neu Broderstorf. In the mid-1960s, SG Traktor began working closely with the SSG of the Broderstorf Polytechnic High School. The children and teenagers trained there in the sports of handball, gymnastics, swimming, athletics, boxing, sports and archery. There was also ice hockey and roller skating. The athletes of the listed sections achieved remarkable sporting successes at district and district level (e.g. pupils B became district champions in indoor soccer in front of SC Empor Rostock). On the BSG Karl Marx Broderstorf was founded with the football and archery sections, the horse sport section was added.

[Wolf_pd]

There are some conflicting sources on whether to write out the complete name for teamnames. In some cases the editor just limits me. For Verkehrbetriebe or VB Waren I decide to write it out completely.

I will add the SV Pastow name to my list for the next edits.

[Reiver]

FSV martinroda was bsg "traktor martinroda", LFV Sachsen Leipzig exists as a phoenix club of Chemie Leipzig so I guess can be deleted.

 

The others are harder cause they were either created after the merge or they are themselves creates through merges.

[Wolf_pd]

Yes, there are several phoenix clubs from Chemie Leipzig. The name Sachsen Leipzig is very popular and usually also comes with bad money management.

Btw, the DDR file made life a lot more easy. Made working on the renaming a breeze. Renaming Yugoslav teams is a bit of drag right now. I dread the Soviet Union now with all those teams.....

[Reiver]

Well, my suggestion is to rename these new teams a name of a defunct team from the same city. Something like:

 FC Förderkader René Schneider can become one of these: 

BSG Agrochemie Rostock

BSG Chemie 70 Rostock

BSG Empor Rostock

BSG Schiffselektronik Rostock

BSG Fleischwirtschaft Rostock

ASG Vorwärts Rostock-Gehlsdorf

LFV Sachsen Leipzig and Inter Leipzig can become one of these:

 

BSG Post Leipzig

BSG Einheit Leipzig Ost

SG Dynamo Leipzig

BSG Einheit Zentrum Leipzig

BSG Aktivist Geophysik Leipzig

BSG Automation Leipzig

ASG Vorwärts Leipzig

 

SV Hanse Neubrandenburg can become:

 

SG Dynamo Neubrandenburg

BSG Neubrandenburger Verkehrsbetriebe

BSG Einheit Neubrandenburg

BSG Turbine Neubrandenburg

 

for the ones that are mergers I haven't checked if their original clubs were called yet.

 

Sorry if I seem over enthusiastic, it's jsut that i'll probably start in East Germany once this is released.

[Wolf_pd]

No problem. I am happy to see enthusiasm.

And I agree with your suggestion.

I am working on Yugoslavia now, which is a LOT of work, but those East German teams will be added (I had left them out for now). Hopefully all the Ygoslavia work will help me finish Yugoslavia next week. Because I really want to finish the Soviet Union before I am on holiday at the end of this month.

[MBarbaric]

In questo momento, Wolf_pd ha scritto:

I am working on Yugoslavia now, which is a LOT of wor

let me know if you need any help. My file on Yug was quite good (i think) regarding team (and cities/stadiums) name changes.  Or, just check the old db  

[Wolf_pd]

14 minutes ago, MBarbaric said:

let me know if you need any help. My file on Yug was quite good (i think) regarding team (and cities/stadiums) name changes.  Or, just check the old db  

I am using it  But the whole combination of all the Yugoslav countries give a big load of active teams teams (1400). I have about half left to do.

And then it is Soviet Union with 3200 (!) teams, but I really have to see how to handle that one. I am not sure if transl(iter)ating the non-Russian teamnames to Russian is the way to go, just like I didn't transl(iter)ate the cities untill now.

[MBarbaric]

4 ore fa, Wolf_pd ha scritto:

I am using it  But the whole combination of all the Yugoslav countries give a big load of active teams teams (1400). I have about half left to do.

And then it is Soviet Union with 3200 (!) teams, but I really have to see how to handle that one. I am not sure if transl(iter)ating the non-Russian teamnames to Russian is the way to go, just like I didn't transl(iter)ate the cities untill now.

why would you translate the names? thought only italians did that  

[dfdfhjdhgjfg]

I would like to know if these countries have their own national football teams to replace some of the existing European teams，I've tried to replace Serbia with Yugoslavia before, but my friends told me that I couldn't do it with editor.

Even if they are replaced in the editor, such as in the European Cup attendance list, there is no change in the game. My friend told me that he can achieve it, but it depends on programming

Edited February 17, 2020 by dfdfhjdhgjfg

[Wolf_pd]

3 hours ago, MBarbaric said:

why would you translate the names? thought only italians did that  

It is a matter of Russification, we all need that.

[Wolf_pd]

51 minutes ago, dfdfhjdhgjfg said:

I would like to know if these countries have their own national football teams to replace some of the existing European teams，I've tried to replace Serbia with Yugoslavia before, but my friends told me that I couldn't do it with editor.

Even if they are replaced in the editor, such as in the European Cup attendance list, there is no change in the game. My friend told me that he can achieve it, but it depends on programming

No programming needed.

East Germany is revived

Russia is used as base for the Soviet Union, as Russia has been the follow up nation according to FIFA.

Same for Serbia as base for Yugoslavia and Czech Republic as base for Czechoslovakia.

West Germany is just a renamed Germany.

All parts of those countries like Ukraine, Belarus, Croatia, Slovakia are not active anymore.

It's all possible without game programming. 

[Reiver]

In East Germany, any plans to have the Goldener Traktor cup?

 

 

FC An der Fahner Höhe is a merger of a bunch of teams: 

FC BLAU-WEISS DACHWIG-DÖLLSTÄDT - founded in 1999

FSV 1921 HERBSLEBEN - BSG Traktor Herbsleben

FSV 78 BURGTONNA - SG Aufbau Burgtonna

SV FORTUNA GRÄFENTONNA - No idea

SV WITTERDA - BSG Traktor Witterda.

 

 

SpVgg Geratal is a merger of:

ThSV 1886 Geschwenda - BSG Stahlbau Geschwenda

SV 08 Geraberg - BSG Chemie TW (Thermometerwerk) Geraberg

TSV 1880 Elgersburg - BSG Motor Elgersburg

 

FSV 06 Ohratal - BSG Aufbau Ohrdruf

 

 

[Wolf_pd]

Goldener Traktor?

I will take at it, I will have to Google that to be honest.

Thanks for the others. You have done quite some of the legwork for the DDR. Very appreciated!

[MBarbaric]

7 ore fa, Wolf_pd ha scritto:

It is a matter of Russification, we all need that.

not sure I understood well, but I think the clubs (russian, or others) should keep their original names. It always looked awkward when english would change the name of Torino to Turin and similar. 

In yugoslavia you will find Hrvatski Dragovoljac somewhere in croatian lower leagues. I think I forgot to change that, it should be NK Siget. 

[Reiver]

It's a cup between all the teams sponsored by the Traktor sports association. There's not much information around it, except that it had around 2000 teams in it, first rounds were played regionally, and that it was scrapped in 1967, mnaybe a bit too early irl for it to be brought back,

Edited February 17, 2020 by Reiver

[Wolf_pd]

5 hours ago, MBarbaric said:

not sure I understood well, but I think the clubs (russian, or others) should keep their original names. It always looked awkward when english would change the name of Torino to Turin and similar. 

In yugoslavia you will find Hrvatski Dragovoljac somewhere in croatian lower leagues. I think I forgot to change that, it should be NK Siget. 

I want to use the old (original) names from the 80's, but at the same keep the republican identity alive, so you can see you're playing the Lithuanian, Ukrainian, Uzbek  teams. Most of the issues are with team and city names translated to either English or Russian and not being consistent between city names and team names.

For the Yugoslav teams I am essentially counting on your file  

Anyway, I have a reminder in the expanded version to do an extra check. For now, it will be on available info and best effort.

[Wolf_pd]

4 hours ago, Reiver said:

It's a cup between all the teams sponsored by the Traktor sports association. There's not much information around it, except that it had around 2000 teams in it, first rounds were played regionally, and that it was scrapped in 1967, mnaybe a bit too early irl for it to be brought back,

Hmmm, a fun idea, but if it is scrapped in the 60s, that's too early for me. 80s could have worked.

[MBarbaric]

3 ore fa, Wolf_pd ha scritto:

Hmmm, a fun idea, but if it is scrapped in the 60s, that's too early for me. 80s could have worked.

take some liberty, reintroduce it  

tractor cup is the best thing i've heard about football in weeks  

[Wolf_pd]

True, true, true, but for now, first finish Yugoslavia. Especially since I messed up this file (just the file with the team renaming) and need to start over with that

Ah well, something to do this weekend when storm Ellen hits

[MBarbaric]

2 ore fa, Wolf_pd ha scritto:

True, true, true, but for now, first finish Yugoslavia. Especially since I messed up this file (just the file with the team renaming) and need to start over with that

Ah well, something to do this weekend when storm Ellen hits

yugoslavia was always a quirky place  

[Reiver]

lso, turns out I was wrong as I got another source that tells me it happened all the way to 1989. Apprently there was one per Bezirke.

[Wolf_pd]

Ah, cool. I have added the Traktor pokal to my to do list. In the expansion the Bezirke would be added, so that could work together.