Why SI removed good working option from editor???

[krlenjushka]

Option called "dont add stage if not enough teams" is removed from editor - at least for league stage type. Why would you remove good working option from editor? It doesnt work in game either.

Who is that master coder who decided to remove this????

One of good options for creating complicated systems and you decide to remove it. Unbeliveble!!!

You better focus on fixing 5 years old bugs - instead you remove working options.

One big BRAVO for you guys!!!!

[ratio1618]

i swear ive seen this option. add it to my complaint thread

 

 

[ratio1618]

Would this do anything?

 

[krlenjushka]

No they disabled this option for "league" type of stage for no reason. I can find 10 broken options in editor but they decided to remove working one. Sometimes i think im crazy here.

[KUBI]

vor 42 Minuten schrieb krlenjushka:

No they disabled this option for "league" type of stage for no reason. I can find 10 broken options in editor but they decided to remove working one. Sometimes i think im crazy here.

you are doing some crazy things, but we need people like you. 👍

[krlenjushka]

1 minute ago, KUBI said:

you are doing some crazy things

True

[ratio1618]

16 minutes ago, KUBI said:

you are doing some crazy things, but we need people like you. 👍

He is possibly one of the most adept editors in the world and has been doing it for a long ass time. Its important for alot of people and i think when krlenjushka speaks up it should help you guys try and get some fo these issues fixed. Collaborate with him for the greater good of the editing community. PLEASE!

[krlenjushka]

5 minutes ago, ratio1618 said:

He is possibly one of the most adept editors in the world and has been doing it for a long ass time. Its important for alot of people and i think when krlenjushka speaks up it should help you guys try and get some fo these issues fixed. Collaborate with him for the greater good of the editing community. PLEASE!

Worthless efforts-  believe me. We tried to change something in previous years but without luck. Simply - communication about editor problems is 0. 

Thats why so many guys from this forum decided to abandon their projects and FM.

Editor is not important to them - its low priority.

End of story.

[ratio1618]

That is soul crushing to hear.

@KUBI What is going on man?

[KUBI]

The editor is a niche product, always was. If you read what is posted on the GD forum you know that they have more important things to do in the next weeks. 

 

[ratio1618]

2 minutes ago, KUBI said:

The editor is a niche product, always was. If you read what is posted on the GD forum you know that they have more important things to do in the next weeks. 

 

I understand, however do you not see that more focus on the editor is relative to the longevity of your game? Look at Factorio, Rimworld games along similar lines. they have extensive mod support and are aware of the communities presence as a factor of the games proliferation.

For us the editors the same. Theres alsoways a level 10 DB for england that keep people playing, theres always a world league or a league in Togo. Its not something that shoiuld just be thrown to the waste-side as it leads to the deterioration of the communities that keep portions of the game fresh and alive.

Look at lollujo, he is currently playing on "the FmEditors" Database which has included the incorrect and broken rules for the VN/S over the next two years and noone can fix it becuase tnoone is ficing the birds nest in the editors section for England.

I think you need to re prioritize and if you have dedicated edtior staff i do not see why they are not currently pushing fixes to branches, last time i checked nothings been done since the CWC error 2 weeks ago.

tl;dr
The Editor is FMs "Mods" and they help give the game the longevity it sees every year please give the people that like to play in this field a bit more time and respect.

[KUBI]

They read and review the editor bugs forum, but it just takes a bit longer until things are fixed.

Just because there is no news does not mean that they don't care.

[ratio1618]

I understand that. But i feel like a bit more transparency and communication is needed, seeing as we are dealing with the backbones of the game itself. I appreciate all the changes i've noticed in the editor this year but i am also perplexed at the lack of: a: patchnotes describving why certain things are being removed and b: the lack of direct editor dev to end user communication to help us understand certain fields and the like as well as how changes to the database are going to directly effect us as editors.

 

I know you do a lot of hard work here on these forums and i understand that there are larger issues that need to be addressed, but i just want to reitterate that editors are the people that keep this game alive and a little more back and forwath between us and the editor team would be much appreciated. 

 

I'm not throwing shade, I just feel like we are under represented. I appreciate what you do, and you've been a big help to everyone. 

[KUBI]

What I and the other mods here get is basically the same as all users have. We all have to find out what changed, what works and what not. 

There is also a good reason why they can't promote the editor more, as you can do things, that are not permitted with the vanilla release of the game. (Japanese league for example).

[ratio1618]

1 minute ago, KUBI said:

What I and the other mods here get is basically the same as all users have. We all have to find out what changed, what works and what not. 

There is also a good reason why they can't promote the editor more, as you can do things, that are not permitted with the vanilla release of the game. (Japanese league for example).

So our use of the editor to make legaues for people who enjoy them is limited by licensing and other things? Can Juventus really come after real world  name fixers for simply changing some of your code third party?

Can J-league and beyond come after Azumi because he wants an accurate Japanese football pyramid?

Why cant some of the editor boys get accounts here and help people out with issues since they know this beast inside and out. Why cant they come here and explain why certain options were removed?

Please dont spit upon the editor its the sunlight that keeps this game going and bending knee and eliminating us from the spectrum will lead to your demise

[KUBI]

You imagine a very big company with one department called "editor" and a lot of people working there. It's not. 

The editor is an add-on to the game, that was always the case. It's like skinning. Both can open new worlds for some users, but for the most people the game is just as it is and they playing it that way.

[ratio1618]

5 minutes ago, KUBI said:

You imagine a very big company with one department called "editor" and a lot of people working there. It's not. 

The editor is an add-on to the game, that was always the case. It's like skinning. Both can open new worlds for some users, but for the most people the game is just as it is and they playing it that way.

But i have seen tweets from people who have worked on the editor.  Despite everything being amalgamous as it is surely there are some people that cna come here and help out?
 

[krlenjushka]

10 minutes ago, KUBI said:

You imagine a very big company with one department called "editor" and a lot of people working there. It's not. 

The editor is an add-on to the game, that was always the case. It's like skinning. Both can open new worlds for some users, but for the most people the game is just as it is and they playing it that way.

Exactly. Thats why they need better communication with community about editor. This simply is not good enough. They need someone who will answer our questions here (something like "this cant be fixed", "this is old bug -still no solution for this").

Lets take one bug as example. Its very old bug related to teams list under qualification system. Option called "winner of other competition" is broken for 6-7 years now and this issue is raised in bugs forum several times.

My friend @SRKI did that. Of course without any proper answer. We should be idiots and spend our time (and we dont get paycheck for this) to raise issues?  They cant bother to write some explanation (thats why nobody will answer my original question in this thread) - 3 minutes job.

Lets speak about another case - our files are "responsible" for some amount of sold game copies. Maybe its not big number but its still OUR work to put money in their pockets.

Because of this they should have more respect - if not for us - then for our time.

[ratio1618]

7 minutes ago, krlenjushka said:

Exactly. Thats why they need better communication with community about editor. This simply is not good enough. They need someone who will answer our questions here (something like "this cant be fixed", "this is old bug -still no solution for this").

Lets take one bug as example. Its very old bug related to teams list under qualification system. Option called "winner of other competition" is broken for 6-7 years now and this issue is raised in bugs forum several times.

My friend @SRKI did that. Of course without any proper answer. We should be idiots and spend our time (and we dont get paycheck for this) to raise issues?  They cant bother to write some explanation (thats why nobody will answer my original question in this thread) - 3 minutes job.

Lets speak about another case - our files are "responsible" for some amount of sold game copies. Maybe its not big number but its still OUR work to put money in their pockets.

Because of this they should have more respect - if not for us - then for our time.

100% this

[grade]

12 hours ago, krlenjushka said:

Exactly. Thats why they need better communication with community about editor. This simply is not good enough. They need someone who will answer our questions here (something like "this cant be fixed", "this is old bug -still no solution for this").

Lets take one bug as example. Its very old bug related to teams list under qualification system. Option called "winner of other competition" is broken for 6-7 years now and this issue is raised in bugs forum several times.

My friend @SRKI did that. Of course without any proper answer. We should be idiots and spend our time (and we dont get paycheck for this) to raise issues?  They cant bother to write some explanation (thats why nobody will answer my original question in this thread) - 3 minutes job.

Lets speak about another case - our files are "responsible" for some amount of sold game copies. Maybe its not big number but its still OUR work to put money in their pockets.

Because of this they should have more respect - if not for us - then for our time.

I entirely agree with this.

 

13 hours ago, KUBI said:

The editor is a niche product, always was. If you read what is posted on the GD forum you know that they have more important things to do in the next weeks. 

 

And @KUBI like every year we are left behind. I mean if @krlenjushka, who is the Jedi Master of the Editor, is frustrated, I would heavily take his words has a serious warning.

I really don't bother with the thread war that is happening in GD forums, none of it surprise me, mean some threads are like that since FM09, I got use to it. No do I bother replying there (even if I have strong feelings and concerns of some features and creative decisions). But at least they get a reply from SI, from time to time, when things are a bit much (or when Neil thinks he needs to intervene). But here in Editor Hideaway, I don't really recall anyone from SI to reply here. They really, really, don't care about us. That is saddest truth. Some of us keep resistant and are loyal to SI, to try to work with an editor (no matter the condition the editor is in). Specially banging our heads onto the walls, try to interpret what half of the errors the editor reports, actually means. Sure they improved a bit, but the error feedback is still bad. Half the time to seek what the error means, I have to search across google, because, there is nothing here. Most of the time, even the Jedi Masters, are a bit walking in shaky grounds. There are threads that are simply empty, because we simply don't know the answer. I'm sorry, but these sub-forums, just shows how bad things are in these forums. The lack of SI interaction with the community, is quite shocking bad, because why? Trolls? People too stubborn to listen to help? Who? I mean, you can see those people are still here on these forums, they didn't go away. Interact with us or not, they will continue to come here, since this kinda is the official forums.

The difference, here in these sub-forums, we are trying to extend the fun, in creating realistic leagues, fantasy leagues or simply adding nations that are not released officially by SI. Why do you think all these years I play full FM, when I have the classic mode available? Because I kinda like fantasy leagues. We do this during our free limited time, for free. And we try report bugs when we found them. Yet, year, after year, the interaction with a SI employees that works full-time or the part-timer, is non-existing. No help, no nothing. You, Kubi, provide us with breadcrumbs to us, that is it. I bet that those breadcrumbs is what they feed to you or is simply you go and find out*.

I for one, nothing against you Kubi, would like an official reply from SI to @krlenjushka question, but also I would like to hear from him/her an actual explenation, why certain decisions have been made on the editor this year. (And no, I don't want Neil to come put out another fire, I want the person in charge of these editor decisions to reply here and interact with us). And yes, my frustration are on all time high as of late and mods replies are not enough to satisfy me.

*I hate, the Find Out philosophy and politics from SI, seriously. But, that is personal rant of mine.

[KUBI]

@grade

When did you post the latest bug report about the editor? I can't find one. 

This was and is a helping forum in which the community helps each other. I can't find threads in which you helped other people.

What @krlenjushka posted has a background, I can't see any background in what you posted, ok, it's a rant, but neither constructive nor with anything new in it.

 

[krlenjushka]

Picture will say more than 1000 words. If 224k posts is not enough for your attention - nothing is.

[KUBI]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb krlenjushka:

Picture will say more than 1000 words. If 224k posts is not enough for your attention - nothing is.

There is a problem with communication, but to raise it during the christmas time does probably not solve it.  

I will try to get in touch with SI in January about it. 

[grade]

9 minutes ago, KUBI said:

@grade

When did you post the latest bug report about the editor? I can't find one. 

This was and is a helping forum in which the community helps each other. I can't find threads in which you helped other people.

What @krenjushka posted has a background, I can't see any background in what you posted, ok, it's a rant, but neither constructive nor with anything new in it.

Okay... you went there:

But if that is not enough, you can search the USA data info where I reported, missing clubs or clubs that weren't in previous years. Some clubs continuously remain in database, when they were defunct of over 3 years. So... that is that.

But you got, to go there... didn't you. Oh, well... maybe @krlenjushka has better time with this guy. I'm out... 

[KUBI]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb krlenjushka:

Exactly. Thats why they need better communication with community about editor. This simply is not good enough. They need someone who will answer our questions here (something like "this cant be fixed", "this is old bug -still no solution for this").

Lets take one bug as example. Its very old bug related to teams list under qualification system. Option called "winner of other competition" is broken for 6-7 years now and this issue is raised in bugs forum several times.

My friend @SRKI did that. Of course without any proper answer. We should be idiots and spend our time (and we dont get paycheck for this) to raise issues?  They cant bother to write some explanation (thats why nobody will answer my original question in this thread) - 3 minutes job.

Lets speak about another case - our files are "responsible" for some amount of sold game copies. Maybe its not big number but its still OUR work to put money in their pockets.

Because of this they should have more respect - if not for us - then for our time.

We both know about the resourses...

It can be frustrating, but the main issue is that during December, after the release of the game, the main focus is on other parts of the game. 

They are trying to fix the main editor issues (as they did after the release), but for anything else we have to wait. 

[Roy Race 9]

Thanks @grade for tagging me

But I have totally lost interest mate it's a joke see lots of same bugs year in year out

 

[ratio1618]

I think what @KUBI said is fair enough to take on board. It IS the holiday season and he has said he will bring up our grievances at a more appropriate time in a few weeks.

As long as something is being done im happy. Im also happy we have raised our voices as it feels like there hasnt been alot of that historically.
 

[ratio1618]

I would also like you to ask the Si team about how they have handled Vanarama North and South this year and to explain the process of the English advanced rules

[Roy Race 9]

1 hour ago, ratio1618 said:

I think what @KUBI said is fair enough to take on board. It IS the holiday season and he has said he will bring up our grievances at a more appropriate time in a few weeks.

As long as something is being done im happy. Im also happy we have raised our voices as it feels like there hasnt been alot of that historically.
 

Some have been reporting the same bugs for years mate 

And it's just groundhog Day 

Good luck to you

[Roy Race 9]

On 20/12/2019 at 13:40, krlenjushka said:

Option called "dont add stage if not enough teams" is removed from editor - at least for league stage type. Why would you remove good working option from editor? It doesnt work in game either.

Who is that master coder who decided to remove this????

One of good options for creating complicated systems and you decide to remove it. Unbeliveble!!!

You better focus on fixing 5 years old bugs - instead you remove working options.

One big BRAVO for you guys!!!!

Hi mate see some fun again then

[ratio1618]

3 minutes ago, Roy Race 9 said:

Some have been reporting the same bugs for years mate 

And it's just groundhog Day 

Good luck to you

Come back and help be a voice we need. Theres a guy in the discord who has "stopped caring about FM and the editor" with similar reasons to you. I feel theres alot of others as well. We need more representation. We ARE the modders

[Roy Race 9]

39 minutes ago, ratio1618 said:

Come back and help be a voice we need. Theres a guy in the discord who has "stopped caring about FM and the editor" with similar reasons to you. I feel theres alot of others as well. We need more representation. We ARE the modders

been there done it mate had feedback from SI going back over 5 years ago...the same issues are still there mate 

myself and @krlenjushka worked on a few issues and put a lot of time in trying to assist with issues he can tell you the outcome

[KUBI]

This is going nowhere, as the thread becomes itself a groundhog day.