Playstyle for Regista AND half back - Help needed

[Rehnzz]

Hi managers

Lately i have been trying out something new, and to a sort of mixed success. I played Bari up to Serie A using this tactic 50 % of the time, but there are some aspects i'm struggling with.

The idea is to use a Regista to run the middle of the park completely ( Dahoud is not my main man for this job, but international duty and Tonali still being very young forced this for now )

Next to him i want to run a halfback, that will sneak in between the central defenders and that way widen up the back, allowing my wingbacks to play very aggressively and further up the pitch. Defensively i have found this work incredible, and my issues are mainly going forward.

I've asked my inside forwards to sit narrower and let wingbacks fill in on the outside.

My main concerns are what role to play my CM as and what type of football to play.

CM Attacking doesn't feel optimal, but i can't play a mezzala without causing assymetry. I suppose i could put the Mezzala in front of the half back maybe?

Also. What kind of playstyle would benefit my Regista? A possession based slow football, or vertical tiki taka for quick flaired space-balls?

My main issue with the slow pace i am trying now with Dortmund is that my wingers are rapid, absolutely rapid. And i feel like the low pace could hold them back from doing what they do best?

Any input would be appreciated, i really want to make this regista/half back combination work but going forward i feel like something is missing, the movement in midfield is a bit clumsy and might prohibit my regista a little bit.

 

Last of all, are there any individual trais i could benefit from running this tactic for a long time? Mainly for my 3 midfielders.

Cheers for reading, lets theorycraft!

 

Edited September 18, 2019 by Rehnzz

[Rehnzz]

Reading through my own post, i feel like what i am trying to do is play like Liverpool but with a Regista. or a playmaker at all in the midfield. I'm not sure how to tweak my tactics to adjust to that.

[yolixeya]

I have no experience with weird looking formations like this and I haven't been playing with regista much but I still see a couple of issues here.

1. Why you have so many TI active? Even if you want to play possession football having much shorter passing, PoD, lower tempo, Dribble less, WBiB, be more expressive is a overkill, then you have also fairly narrow and play trough the middle which makes it even worse. Pick a 1-3 TI that are most imprtant to you for your style of play and start from there.

2. Your top 4 players all on attack which makes it unbalanced.

3. If you want regista to be your main creator and want to get best of him, change BPDs to regular CBs so they play more trough him and not completely skip him with longer balls.

4. I see you have SGK on attack. I haven't used that too much but I think it is used more for counterattacking football, but then you have hold shape selected instead of counter. What is your reasoning behind this?

1 hour ago, Rehnzz said:

Also. What kind of playstyle would benefit my Regista? A possession based slow football, or vertical tiki taka for quick flaired space-balls?

As regista is a italian role I think is more suited for how they play which is lower tempo, but that doesn't mean that he will not send direct balls.

[Rehnzz]

Thank you for the reply. I'm just tired of playing the same 4-3-3 system in all clubs. I noticed and realized the BPD issue as well. There was a few issues with this screenshot in general, as it's a fairly newly created system that's still under testing for Dortmund. The system i have tried it out mostly in is with Bari, where Ball playing defenders have never been a luxury i could afford. Like i said, maybe the Regista just isn't a good fit for Dortmund as i have very high pace players that i am forcing down into a slower pace. If i wanted to play how my system is currently set up, i should probably change my regista to a AMC AP. I will look over some of the things you pointed out.

Update coming soon with a much slowed down system

[Rehnzz]

How do you feel about the Advanced wingbacks compensated with a half-back though? It's a bit crazy maybe, but i really like the idea of freeing them up. And a good half-back with high positioning should be able to be sort of a " False back 3 " i'm thinking.

[yolixeya]

49 minutes ago, Rehnzz said:

How do you feel about the Advanced wingbacks compensated with a half-back though? It's a bit crazy maybe, but i really like the idea of freeing them up. And a good half-back with high positioning should be able to be sort of a " False back 3 " i'm thinking.

It's not something I would play. Yes HB helps in defence but you still have only 3 players really defending, everybody else is running up the pitch. Your front 4 on attack duty, wingbacks and regista is also very offensive minded player so what happens when you lose the ball. Plus you play much higher LOE and DL with extremely urgent pressing and counterpress. I think you are very vulnerable when you lose the ball.  ball.  

[Experienced Defender]

4 hours ago, Rehnzz said:

There are 3 major problems in your setup IMHO:

- needlessly too many team instructions (presets are generally full of overkills)

- one-dimensionality on the flanks (same roles and duties on both wings)

- inconsistency between instructions (suitable for a possession style) and roles/duties (more suitable for counter-attacking or fast attacking styles)

Btw, if you want to use a regista, then you really need the right player for the role. So if you don't have such a specific type of player in your team, then better don't use the REG (until you have one that suits the role in terms of attributes). 

If you are interested, I can give you an example of how you may set up roles, duties and instructions in a sensible way with a regista included and using your 2413 formation.

[Rehnzz]

2 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

There are 3 major problems in your setup IMHO:

- needlessly too many team instructions (presets are generally full of overkills)

- one-dimensionality on the flanks (same roles and duties on both wings)

- inconsistency between instructions (suitable for a possession style) and roles/duties (more suitable for counter-attacking or fast attacking styles)

Btw, if you want to use a regista, then you really need the right player for the role. So if you don't have such a specific type of player in your team, then better don't use the REG (until you have one that suits the role in terms of attributes). 

If you are interested, I can give you an example of how you may set up roles, duties and instructions in a sensible way with a regista included and using your 2413 formation.

Thanks for your advice. I don't know why exactly it is i want to pull this off so badly. We're at the end of the season, so to speak, and i want to try some new things in the game. I've had a thorough overlook on all the instructions. They were not like that in my Bari save, these were a very new save and yes, a lot of the preset instructions were still in there. 

I would love any suggestions on how to make the system work, the only thing i am really firm on is keeping the halfback and pushing my wingbacks up.

About the player, i had a player called Kenneth Taylor from Ajax in my Bari save, running him as the regista with 19 vision and 18 passing. Sadly only 9 flair. I like to run a bit smaller clubs normally, so getting the perfect player is a bit harder but i know a few options. Bobby Gilmour etc. Is there anything i am missing except for Flair, Vision, Passing & First touch? Maybe decisions?

I noticed with the TI's i used there were a lot of wasted crosses to the flanks, which i'm working on fixing atm.

I've now slimmed down my instruction to simply try to distribute to the Regista from goalkeeper and build up slowly, with Work ball into box on. Any suggestions are appreciated, i am really fascinated by the Regista as a role.

What do you reckon is a good role for my 3rd midfielder? I have tried BBM and CM AT. I would love a Mezzala but it scuffs the symmetry a bit.

 

Here's my current tactics, my Regista isn't trained in it yet, this is his first match playing it but he will do alright with some experience.

 

 

My Bari Regista before i messed up my Non-EU rules haha  

Edited September 18, 2019 by Rehnzz

[lferreira]

On the playmaking area he's alright, but his positioning and poor tackling, not to mention poor mentals for a defensive midfielder (which he is, considering you have a CM-At or a BBM) will leave you in a lot of trouble.

[Experienced Defender]

3 hours ago, Rehnzz said:

I've now slimmed down my instruction to simply try to distribute to the Regista from goalkeeper and build up slowly, with Work ball into box on

You don't need to instruct the keeper to distribute specifically to the regista. Instead, I would use the Play out of defence TI and your players will naturally look for the REG as your playmaker by default, especially now that you have changed BPDs to standard CBs, which is a good move 

Work ball into box is not necessary. It can overcomplicate things in the final third, especially against defensive sides that will restrict the space in and around their box. With shorter passing and playing out of defence, your build-up play will already be patient enough. In that respect, even lower tempo may not be needed. In fact, the only in-possession instructions I would use are - shorter passing and play out of defence. More important is setting up roles and duties in the right way. 

3 hours ago, Rehnzz said:

This tactic looks much better than the initial one 

However, there is still room for improvement. The problem is that I don't know your players, so it's hard to tell which particular changes would make sense. Here is one possible example:

DLFat

IFat                                    IFsu

BBM

WBsu       REG     HB        WBat

And here is another:

DLFsu

IFat                                  Wsu

BBM

WBsu     REG      HB      IWBat

And then yet another one:

DLFat

IFsu                                    Wat

CMat

WBsu      REG     HB       IWBsu

But which one (if any) would be optimal for your team is something only you should know, because only you know your players. 

In transition, I don't think the Hold shape is necessary. I would simply remove it, simply because it is likely to make you a bit too sterile in attacking transitions. 

Finally, out of possession - extremely urgent pressing is extremely risky. My preference would always be the split press - leave the team pressing on default and instead tell your 3-4 most advanced players to close down more in their player instructions. That's much safer and more sensible than telling the whole team to press like crazy. Remember, good defending and aggressive defending are two different things.

So, here are the instructions I would start with (under the Positive mentality):

- shorter passing, play out of defence

- perhaps only counter-press (but not against strong opposition)

- higher DL, higher LOE, default pressing, offside trap

And the split press (block) via player instructions. 

4 hours ago, Rehnzz said:

Well, this guy is not quite ideal for a regista role but might serve the purpose in the absence of a better option.

[BP900]

Doesn't look like you have much (if any) defensive support for your regista. Really, the regista should not be having to do much, if any defensive work, and focus on getting himself opportunities and space to do what he does best -- pass. And if you've set your tactic up correctly, he will do this incredibly. Based on what I see, your tactic generally has very little movement around the regista, and little defensive cover for when he ventures forward. The role is one for which you have to design an entire tactic around, and you can pull off some really cool stuff, if you release him from the burden of defensive work, to allow him to make killer passes. 

 

I know you want to play "heavy metal" attacking football, but unless you have the team, and players for it, you should stick to something more conservative. In this case, as a start, I'd change the role ahead of the regista/halfback, as a BBM is going to be running around everywhere, and won't really offer you much help defensively. Maybe try a CM on S or D, as he will be sticking to the position much more than your current role. In addition, I can tell already, that with those advanced wing backs, that teams with better players are going to be able to easily get in behind your team, so you should really try a flat back four against tough opposition. 

 

Honestly, I found that the regista/HB combo works very well, allowing for calculated, build up play against larger teams, but still having the punch against defensive opposition.

[Rehnzz]

You guys responses were great! 

I appreciate the debate and input. 

I honestly don't get penalized a lot defensively, my halfback is incredible at deciding wether to close down or fall into a back 3 and allow cd's to go wider. I don't mean to sound arrogant, but defensively I don't need advice. But changing my cm to support could be one way to free up my regista. That's what I struggle with currently, making him the focal point I want him to be. I've asked individual players to play short, simple passes hoping they will choose him. The regista I've brought in now is incredible, I just need him to do his role with as much freedom as he wants, and my other players to help him with that. 

[Rehnzz]

I feel like currently my Regista is playing more of a CM support role, thats how his interaction in the game feels like. It seems it's the mentality or the TI's i am struggling to get right for him. I find it extremely interesting to try and figure it out, watch full matches etc. But at some point i've got to figure this project out before FM20 is released haha.

Also, my CD's play offside trap very very well. I realized we might get punished here and there, but overall it's going well. If i wanted to play "Heavy metal" football, i wouldn't have thought about the Halfback or his role in the team. Would've just made him another BBM. Atm wasteful possession and the play not revolving around my regista is my issue. Maybe he is doing too much defensive work, thats a really good point. I will look to pull my CM back a bit, into CM support or Carrilero