Roma tactic - feedback please

[stevecummins78]

Grateful for any feedback on this tactic, is there anything obviously wrong here?

 

[BadanieLuck]

At first glance, I think you might struggle in the final third. Playing in Italy you will often come up against low blocks with a compact unit (I currently play in Italy myself and very often face 532 which is hard to get through). Now you have an AP, 2x IF and a CF, all hardcoded with More Risky Passes. Coupled with Pass Into Space and Control mentality will result in many misplaced passes. On top of that, 2x FB on attack who will Cross More Often and a BPD who will try long passes as well. You basically try to bombard the opposition box with difficult passes and crosses and you will struggle for possession. It mainly will result in quick turnovers and many counter attacks for the opposition.

To me it seems like you are trying to give every player his most suited role and duty, which is not necessary. Focus more on the actual attributes and rethink some roles and duties. I needs some balancing but you're not far off.

[Urbiscuit18]

I'd try this with Standard-flexible and the "Play out of defense" TI to start and then make further tweaks from there. I changed the AML to a Winger because I figured you could use some variation in your attack and I saw that you had Politano in your subs who has been an excellent out and out winger for me.

[stevecummins78]

Politano came in for the injured Under on the right, playing as an inside forward, and scored twice in a 2-1 win against Sassulo, our first win in five games. Again we were poor though.

I think  Badanie is right, I am trying to play players in their preferred roles and have signed them with that in mind. I’ve also been trying to get the ball in dangerous areas. I have played a lot with “retain possession” but I worry that makes us too negative.

i also really want to get the best out of Correa in the left, linking up with Argentinian teammate Martinez up front. Both have been disappointing so far.

Its so frustrating, I know I have a good team, just can’t make them click!!

[ibrahim.akbyk]

I use a system very like yours. Generally Control/flexible. All of mid 3 have same role and duty. On the left flank I use IF-a and IWB-s combination to use them with MEZ. The idea behind the using IWB, cover the space behind the MEZ and having a passing option there. On the right I have an IF-s and WB-a combination with AP on MCR strata they look like fine. I think AP and IF enjoy to passing together, create space for WB.  On the top, I have a DLF-s or CF-s depend to situation. I also think the roles link play very well with others. Especially when I use DLF. On the other hand, sometimes I feel there are lack of support in penalty area. That encourage long shoot as you imagine. 

[summatsupeer]

1. What happens when you change players with so many personalised roles?
2. All 5 of your front players have More Risky Passes by default, why add Pass Into Space as well?  Plus your on Control mentality so your team will be be more risky by default.  But only the CF-A is really looking to attack space with his runs with 2xIF-S being more balanced between receiving to feet or in space, the AP-S prefers to collect to feet which leaves the MEZ-S who will make runs into areas the IF-S likely is and 2x FB-A making wide runs later on.  Seems a bit of a mismatch with lots of creators trying to slide balls behind the opposition but the CF-A being the only consistent option.
3. Read the MEZ role description.  I don't see the point in having the MEZ plus a IF-S, they will do a similar job.

[stevecummins78]

Thinking of moving to a 4231 to get more out of Correa as a playmaker who can make runs in to the box. I've also limited the wandering and risky passing from holding midfielders.

[stevecummins78]

Well that was a waste of time, drew 0-0 at home to PSG and lucky to get nil.

[stevecummins78]

This game is a killer. 0-2 down at Juventus, make tactical changes and get back to 2-2, then they win it in the 95th minute. I'm about ready to throw the towel in.

[summatsupeer]

So rather than developing the tactic you had, you've totally switched, why? That won't help you spot the issues and fix them, sure you might stumble across a tactic that works but that comes more down to chance if you aren't learning from your mistakes.  Now you have 3 playmakers in the middle of the park, whos doing the simple stuff and winning the ball back? How have you "limited the wandering and risky passes from the holding midfielders"?  They have freedom built in due to being playmakers and if your limiting them why use playmakers, especially 3 of them?

[stevecummins78]

I switched back to 4123 for the Juve game. I now have the international break so can have a rethink.

I am really struggling to get the right blend in midfield though and I’m getting nothing at all from whatever forwards I play.

[Mr_Demus]

Sorry to go off topic, but how do make that panel appear at the bottom? Recent matches analysis

[Urbiscuit18]

On 2018-04-18 at 17:47, stevecummins78 said:

Thinking of moving to a 4231 to get more out of Correa as a playmaker who can make runs in to the box. I've also limited the wandering and risky passing from holding midfielders.

You’ve got 3 playmakers in the same area, all 3 will request the ball and 2 of them will be playing risky balls leading to wasted possession. Try adding some balance to your midfield by switching the AP-S to a CM-S and the AP-A to an AM-A.

[stevecummins78]

On 21/04/2018 at 00:11, Urbiscuit18 said:

You’ve got 3 playmakers in the same area, all 3 will request the ball and 2 of them will be playing risky balls leading to wasted possession. Try adding some balance to your midfield by switching the AP-S to a CM-S and the AP-A to an AM-A.

Good point. I've tried to balance the roles bit more. I thought roaming playmaker would help get more out of Pellegrini, getting him more forward and linking up with the striker with passes in to the box, but I've not given him a more direct passing instruction as I don't want him to waste the ball.  I have also got Renato Sanchez on loan who I'm thinking of using as a box to box player to make runs to get hold of passes. I thought about using him as a mezala, but running in to channels may end up getting in the way of Correa playing as an inside forward.

Options from the bench include an out and out winger in Politano if I need to stretch the play more.

What do you think?

[summatsupeer]

Have you used it yet?  Why did you switch to two IF-A?  How has this affected your flank defence?

One thing i'd mention is don't focus too much on getting the best from individuals, try and get the best from the team.

[stevecummins78]

Just played first game, at home to Chievo. Tactic and match summary below.

The visitors had a lot of the ball at the start but a long pass from Under on the right to my other winger Politano on the left saw him get to the byeline and put in a cross which Pellegrini raced in to the box to get on the end of and score. We then got a lucky penalty for a shove in the box that Martinez converted. 2-0 after 23 minutes. I was still worried by how much of the ball Chievo were having and they were getting balls in to my box, so I asked the team to retain possession. We knocked it around nicely for the rest of the first half, though still struggled for possession in their half.

De Rossi replaced the booked Neves at half time. Pellegrini then got injured on the hour mark so I had to put Florenzi in to midfield with Karsdorp coming on to play at right back. We looked comfortable without being dominant and the runs of Politano of the left were causing them all kinds of trouble. It was no surprise that their right back ended up getting sent off after 72 minutes. I brought Kliuvert on for Under to stretch them with two out and out wingers and changed the team mentality to counter in order to invite their 10 men on to me. Clear ball to flanks replaced play out of defence but there were no further goals. 2-0 final score.

[summatsupeer]

1 hour ago, stevecummins78 said:

I was still worried by how much of the ball Chievo were having and they were getting balls in to my box, so I asked the team to retain possession.

Did you look for the cause?  In the most basic terms it comes down to 2 things:

1. Giving the ball away cheaply.
2. Opposition playing safe, keeping the ball and your not pressing them into using it quickly.

So your change would be the answer to 1, assuming through balls / risky passes / passes into space (same thing) was the issue and not something like lack or options or failed dribbling or intercepted passes.

Quote

We knocked it around nicely for the rest of the first half, though still struggled for possession in their half.

Correct me if i'm wrong but Roma are expected to beat Chievo, if they got a draw it would of been a good result for them?  I'm guessing they defend deep so all this running in behind and pushing up probably didn't give many options for passes to build play.  3 of your 5 most advanced players are attack duty so going to take risks even if you cut down on risky passes (retain possession) especially on control which makes the team more risky.  The team will still cross often (W-A and FB-A) and players will still dribble often (AF-A, W-A, IF-S) and they will try and get up the pitch and make runs in behind.  Is this what you saw happening?

[stevecummins78]

Lost second game 2-3 at Benevento. Made worse by the fact that it was orchestrated by a player on loan to them from us!! Played really well at times but defenders all had shockers.

[stevecummins78]

Lost 2-4 at Bayern, then lost 0-1at home to Inter. Dominated against Inter but missed loads of chances, then they scored at the death after I was down to 10 men due to injury.

Martinez now out for six weeks as well. HATE THIS GAME!

[stevecummins78]

Next 3 games already huge....

[stevecummins78]

We just beat Sassuolo 5-0 with this tactic and line up. We were totally dominant, it just clicked.