The Gaffer101 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Improve made a few tactics that have got the better of the match engine. Just find you get far too many 5-4 thriller type games and plenty of missed penalty's and red cards a season plus find your team no matter how good the mental stats are will bottle games few little frustrations. You are quite sensitive to constructive criticism. Overall the game is good Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Just now, The Gaffer101 said: Improve made a few tactics that have got the better of the match engine. Just find you get far too many 5-4 thriller type games and plenty of missed penalty's and red cards a season plus find your team no matter how good the mental stats are will bottle games few little frustrations. You are quite sensitive to constructive criticism. Overall the game is good Don't think I've had a 5-4 the entire FM17, so probably worth tightening up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gaffer101 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 1 minute ago, HUNT3R said: Don't think I've had a 5-4 the entire FM17, so probably worth tightening up. Know a few people that have that problem and its usually off the back of a run of clean sheets hence why the game can be random and unrealistic usually a solid team loses its unbeaten run in closer fashion Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Just now, The Gaffer101 said: Know a few people that have that problem and its usually off the back of a run of clean sheets hence why the game can be random and unrealistic usually a solid team loses its unbeaten run in closer fashion This doesn't change my advice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 PUtting up "killer tactics that try to get the better of the engine" typically does that at random intervals. It does lots of curious things, including spamming loads of poop shots for little return, and the opposition converting every second shot they get as they may be gifted it on a silver platter. All HUGELY depending on how an opponent lines up, and how the run of play goes, as AI react to scorelines and change. Making your side line up like a football team may not quite as oftenly, despite all the warts, bugs, and oft very annoying niggles. However, it's still an issue, agreed. The best chance to get this investigated is reporting it directly the ME guys. Forum's closed now naturally. But @PaulC in the past would also accept things to be send to him. Partly connected to good points raised in this thread, I would hope SI will one day not limit our input, as it's naturally the more "experimental" stuff that would yield such typically. It's also not tested by SI AFAIK as they run most of their tests with AI managers, and naturally their Beta testing guys. That would be a loss, regardless. Input isn't only the spice of life for Mr. Johnny 5 of "Short Circuit" fame, it's the spice of any game, including FM. It's how the game reacts to it all -- and in some cases that can be as simple as an adjustment as to how AI operates.Curiously, as long as the below average side averages their 3-4 goals with a few experimental tactics, and the overall titles keep on coming in, that's never reported and raged about as being "unrealistic". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest El Payaso Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 3 hours ago, Svenc said: Well depends what you consider long term. For example with Chelsea on basically every version when I had qualified to the play offs on Champions league or in the league cup I used to play Petr Cech as a striker and he often scored and never performed considerably worse than the outfield players that I had. I could see no difference in him based on the highlights. Also with Real Oviedo I often played Esteban as a winger as I had few winger options and two good keepers and when I needed to rest the normal wingers in easier and cup games. He did well and remember him getting 2 goals and 1 assist in one game and voted as MotM when he was about 40 years old. And the end product doesn't seem to variate even on FM 2017. For example me losing my DM for the season through injury is not a disaster as the backup seems to do his job as well. Not even if your main DM is a passer type of footballer and you have to replace him with that BWM type of player. Or losing the main striker (like Chelsea with Morata now) there is no problem, just throw Batshuayi in and he will do the same job without you seeing much difference. Recently I witnessed this as in Finland I lost my 4,5 star striker and had to replace him with a 2,5 stars who in real life would struggle even to perform as a super sub. Of course if at same time you lose 7-8 normal starters (which sadly doesn't happen as the amount of injuries is so low) the difference might exist but losing one, two or even three doesn't seem to make any real difference. I've been often thinking of doing some 'stress tests' such as editing an otherwise good or decent winger but having something like 1 for dribbling, flair, off the ball or anticipating for him and see how well he does. As for me the players don't seem to have clear technical limitations while in real life even at top level players do end up in situations where they misplace passes just a bit behind to ruin the counter attack or fail to control the ball at all. While what I see on FM is that for example in corner kicks players can perfectly control the ball inside really crowded area and even those balls that they could never expect to receive like a strong delivery at near post. Seen Conference level players controlling them like receiving a big ball of glue. In terms of match ratings: they are made from the match stats and different kind of style of plays should create considerably different kind of team and match statistics. So basically in some systems the BWMs should be the ones who do their job the best in the team and might reach the highest ratings throughout the season, while on other system and with different kind of player it might be that this role and player struggle and the rating could be even as low as 6.2 or 6.3 something while the other roles of the team is functioning well. These kind of differences don't exist on FM and it would be much more satisfying to see clear differences depending on how well you do, who you play with and which style of play you have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 3 hours ago, El Payaso said: I've been often thinking of doing some 'stress tests' such as editing an otherwise good or decent winger but having something like 1 for dribbling, flair, off the ball or anticipating for him and see how well he does. As for me the players don't seem to have clear technical limitations while in real life even at top level players do end up in situations where they misplace passes just a bit behind to ruin the counter attack or fail to control the ball at all. While what I see on FM is that for example in corner kicks players can perfectly control the ball inside really crowded area and even those balls that they could never expect to receive like a strong delivery at near post. Seen Conference level players controlling them like receiving a big ball of glue. I did actually do similar in summer, just remembered a thread. Btw, this thread and other highlights also that FM is at a crossroads of kinds. Arguably it's always been. On the one hand, you have guys like this. On the other extreme, the game would need to ship with a coaching manual. As no doubt you can develop this into a direction where your average footie fan need not much apply. There is arguably already stuff in the game that it struggles to document despite it, more or less, still always rewarding basic, sound footie stuff. I don't think that's purely down to limitations though. In parts keeping things "simpler" makes the ME and all the game easier to balance. Think about what the AI itself has for a problem of truly, holistically, "intelligently" using the stuff that's there. Even in isolation: Squad development, transfers, tactics, .... If this was all required to be tightly linked, then the thing would probably collapse. IIRC there was an article (Guardian?) a couple months ago writing about that SI had put up a modified FM version for guys to use in a coaching course. Not sure if I remember that correctly or am confusing something, but would be interesting to see what that looks like. I suspect it's mainly manager avatars and stuff taken out, whilst scouting and analysis tools a bit revamped -- maybe some of it will be in FM 2018's announced overhauls of these areas. Slightly reminds me of Bohemia Initeractive, who develop their core engine to use for commercial, military simulation games (Armed Assault), but also sell their stuff for actually military simulation tools. It's an entirelly new market opening up for SI, which sounds fascinating to me. Maybe the game will even split up in the future into different releases. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest El Payaso Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 @Svenc definitely need to check those threads out in the afternoon as I've completely missed them. I'm myself one of those who are fairly doubtful in terms of single attributes instead of CA making the difference. This from my own experience of for example playing goalkeepers as outfield players and getting basicly the same end product from two completely different kind of players. In real life for example if you're Liverpool and you would have to sell Coutinho eventually to Barcelona, you cannot expect the same type of performances from for example Sturridge. And you have to consider really wisely who you replace him with. On FM 2017 I lost for example my 5 star DLP for a long time but I could with ease replace him with 3 star DM who was completely like a BWM and the ratings and statistics didn't differ basically at all. In real life teams would notice this and put more pressure on that replacement and even though the BWM also can play football on this level, he still shouldn't be able to play that role of the DLP as well or at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmattb28 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 18 hours ago, El Payaso said: Well depends what you consider long term. For example with Chelsea on basically every version when I had qualified to the play offs on Champions league or in the league cup I used to play Petr Cech as a striker and he often scored and never performed considerably worse than the outfield players that I had. I could see no difference in him based on the highlights. Also with Real Oviedo I often played Esteban as a winger as I had few winger options and two good keepers and when I needed to rest the normal wingers in easier and cup games. He did well and remember him getting 2 goals and 1 assist in one game and voted as MotM when he was about 40 years old. And the end product doesn't seem to variate even on FM 2017. For example me losing my DM for the season through injury is not a disaster as the backup seems to do his job as well. Not even if your main DM is a passer type of footballer and you have to replace him with that BWM type of player. Or losing the main striker (like Chelsea with Morata now) there is no problem, just throw Batshuayi in and he will do the same job without you seeing much difference. Recently I witnessed this as in Finland I lost my 4,5 star striker and had to replace him with a 2,5 stars who in real life would struggle even to perform as a super sub. Of course if at same time you lose 7-8 normal starters (which sadly doesn't happen as the amount of injuries is so low) the difference might exist but losing one, two or even three doesn't seem to make any real difference. I've been often thinking of doing some 'stress tests' such as editing an otherwise good or decent winger but having something like 1 for dribbling, flair, off the ball or anticipating for him and see how well he does. As for me the players don't seem to have clear technical limitations while in real life even at top level players do end up in situations where they misplace passes just a bit behind to ruin the counter attack or fail to control the ball at all. While what I see on FM is that for example in corner kicks players can perfectly control the ball inside really crowded area and even those balls that they could never expect to receive like a strong delivery at near post. Seen Conference level players controlling them like receiving a big ball of glue. In terms of match ratings: they are made from the match stats and different kind of style of plays should create considerably different kind of team and match statistics. So basically in some systems the BWMs should be the ones who do their job the best in the team and might reach the highest ratings throughout the season, while on other system and with different kind of player it might be that this role and player struggle and the rating could be even as low as 6.2 or 6.3 something while the other roles of the team is functioning well. These kind of differences don't exist on FM and it would be much more satisfying to see clear differences depending on how well you do, who you play with and which style of play you have. See highlighted bit above. Gotta disagree with you on this 1 bro! On my current save with North Shields my 2 first choice CM's, striker and goalie are all injured, In my last 3 games I've had to play 3 of those greyed out players just to get a team out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest El Payaso Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 9 minutes ago, bigmattb28 said: See highlighted bit above. Gotta disagree with you on this 1 bro! On my current save with North Shields my 2 first choice CM's, striker and goalie are all injured, In my last 3 games I've had to play 3 of those greyed out players just to get a team out. I want that on FM 2018 and when playing in La Liga. Have you got a recipe for that? Ps. no need to quote the whole message. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.