[FM17] 1966-67 Scottish Football Structure

[mjaferrie]

Preface
The season of 1966-67 was probably the greatest ever for Scottish football.  Not only did Celtic become the first British, and Northern European, club to win the European Cup in their first appearance in the competition, but Rangers reached the Cup Winner's Cup Final, Kilmarnock reached the Fair's Cup Semis, and Dundee United beat Barcelona 4-1 on aggregate in their first appearance in European competition.  To top it all off, Scotland beat the recently crowned World Champions, England, at Wembley 3-2.

The glory days of Scottish football are certainly in the distant past, but thanks to the power of the FM Editor the league structure is back!  This edit will have 3 versions, the in-real-life structure; a fantasy structure with promotion/relegation to 3rd tier Highland/Lowland Leagues; and a 2nd version of the fantasy structure with B teams.  Scroll down for info on the fantasy structure!  This edit does not include 1966-67 player data - this is purely a league structure edit.  

Download Links (also available for download via the Steam Workshop)
'Real' Structure - 1966-67 Scottish Football - Real_1FEEED39-CFEE-42EE-80D3-538F04CBC3A1.fmf

[mjaferrie]

Leagues

Scottish Division One


Scottish Division Two


Teams play each other twice, home and away, with the old system of two points for a win being reinstated.  2 teams are promoted/relegated between the leagues.  The leagues feature the correct teams as of the 1966-67 season (Airdrie and Clydebank are the versions of those clubs already in FM, despite the clubs' histories).  The reputations of clubs far lower than the division average have been raised to a sensible level for the division, and also in an attempt to better reflect the time.  A massive thanks to @Morrissey for the information on Third Lanark, from his Scottish Real and Fantasy pyramids located here.  I'd also recommend his brilliant logo and kit packs!

[mjaferrie]

Cups

Scottish Cup
The Scottish Cup is competed for annually between 46 teams - 38 from Divisions One/Two and 8 extra teams from the Lower Leagues (Usually Inverness, Ross County, Livingston etc. from the modern day SPFL who aren't in these historic leagues).

First Preliminary Round: 12 teams, 6 progress.  Replay after a draw, ET/pens if still level.


Second Preliminary Round: 16 teams, 10 added, 8 progress.  Replays after a draw, ET/pens if still level.


First Round: All remaining teams enter competition at this stage.  32 teams, from now on straight knockout.  Replays after a draw, ET/pens if still level.


Second Round and Quarter Final: Replays after a draw, ET/pens if still level.




Semi Final and Final: Matches played at Hampden Park.




Scottish League Cup
Competed for annually between all Division One and Two teams.  I'll confess, this structure is a compromise.  The League Cup should have 8 groups of 4 teams playing H/A, plus a 9th group of 6 teams playing each other once only.  This is followed by a supplementary round where the winner of group 9 plays the worst winner of groups 1-8 in a knockout tie, with the winning team joining the best 7 other teams from the group stage in the Quarter Final.  After a couple of weeks of frustration, including collaboration with Claassen on getting the structure right, I just couldn't get the knockout rounds to work.  So, for easiness sake, and actually getting this file out!, the supplementary round has been placed before the group stage and the structure is as follows:

Supplementary Round: 12 teams, 6 progress.  Played over 2 legs.


Group Stage: 8 groups of 4, playing home and away.  2 points for a win.  One team progresses to Quarter Final.


Quarter Final:  Knockout, played over 2 legs. 


Semi Final and Final:  One leg only, played at Hampden Park.  



Regional Cups:
Some of the Regional Cups have also been reinstated, according to what was being competed for at the time.  If you have some other suggestions regarding these, let me know.  The structure for the Glasgow Cup is correct (although the ties are not).  The Ayrshire Cup, whilst technically not competed for in 66-67 or 67-68, restarted in 68-69 so begins in the third season of this file.  Information on other regional cups from this period is scarce (other than the teams and scores in the Final) - if you have some information on these it would be great.  At the moment, they are an interpretation!

Aberdeenshire Cup: Competed between Aberdeen, Aberdeen Uni, Buckie Thistle, Cove Rangers, Deveronvale, Formartine, Fraserburgh, Huntly and Keith.
Ayrshire Cup: Competed between Kilmarnock and Ayr United (starting from season 2018/19).
East of Scotland Shield: Competed between Alloa, Berwick Rangers, Cowdenbeath, Edinburgh Uni, Hearts and Hibs. 
Forfarshire Cup: Competed between Arbroath, Brechin, Dundee, Dundee Utd, Forfar and Montrose.
Glasgow Cup: Competed between Celtic, Clyde, Partick Thistle, Queen's Park, Rangers and Third Lanark
Stirlingshire Cup: Competed between Alloa, Dumbarton, East Stirlingshire, Falkirk, Stenhousemuir and Stirling Albion. 

[mjaferrie]

Fantasy Structure - [WIP]
I'm having trouble with promotion/relegation from Division Two to the Highland/Lowland leagues - this will be released asap.  

Leagues
Divisions One and Two are as in the Real structure, with the inclusion of a P/R playoff between the team finishing 16th in D1 and 3rd in D2, to allow for a bit more movement and unpredictability at the end of the seasons.

Highland/Lowland Leagues
The teams from the modern day SPFL who drop out of the top 2 leagues in this set up join these divisions lower down.  So: Inverness CT, Ross County, Peterhead and Elgin join the Highland League and Annan, Edinburgh City and Livingston join the Lowland League.  Deveronvale, Rothes, Strathspey Thistle and Fort William drop out of the Highland League, which gives us 18 teams in each division.  The league champions face each other, with the winner facing the team bottom of D2, in a promotion playoff - as in real life.  2 points are awarded for a win.



Cups

Scottish Cup
The Scottish Cup is changed back to the modern day structure in this fantasy set up, with 92 teams competing (all teams from D1, D2, H/L and 18 teams from Lower Leagues.

Scottish League Cup / Regional Cups
No change from 'Real' version.

Highland / Lowland League Cups
The Highland and Lowland League Cups are competed for annually between a maximum of 18 teams from their respective divisions.  If the leagues expand the number of teams over the course of a save, the lowest seeded teams from the division will not qualify.  

[mjaferrie]

Reserved for B Team file info

[RBRND]

Great idea.

[cel1234]

This is fantastic.

 

[dave7867]

i dont know if you forgot or it was too awkward too sort but Inverness teams were seperate  Caledonian and Thistle plus Livingston were Feranti Thistle until 1974 before changing to Meadowbank Thistle.

[mjaferrie]

28 minutes ago, dave7867 said:

i dont know if you forgot or it was too awkward too sort but Inverness teams were seperate  Caledonian and Thistle plus Livingston were Feranti Thistle until 1974 before changing to Meadowbank Thistle.

I did know, and if the teams were in the "real" structure I'd have considered changing it.  As they're in the fantasy one anyway, I considered it fair game to just keep them as is  

[cel1234]

You don't have the Fife, Lanarkshire or Renfrewshire Cups ??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966–67_in_Scottish_football

Maybe this could help

http://www.scottish-football-historical-archive.co.uk/county.htm

[mjaferrie]

56 minutes ago, cel1234 said:

You don't have the Fife, Lanarkshire or Renfrewshire Cups ??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966–67_in_Scottish_football

Maybe this could help

http://www.scottish-football-historical-archive.co.uk/county.htm

Brilliant mate, I'll look into that - I was using this as my source for most of the cups: http://www.oocities.org/br1anmccoll/index.htm
The SFHA website you linked there only showed the competition winners for a few of the cups so I didn't delve into it further - looking at it now at least the Fife Cup has the correct teams and structure for every year so I'll double check all of them and get as accurate as possible.  

[mjaferrie]

2 hours ago, dave7867 said:

i dont know if you forgot or it was too awkward too sort but Inverness teams were seperate  Caledonian and Thistle plus Livingston were Feranti Thistle until 1974 before changing to Meadowbank Thistle.

 

2 hours ago, mjaferrie said:

I did know, and if the teams were in the "real" structure I'd have considered changing it.  As they're in the fantasy one anyway, I considered it fair game to just keep them as is  

Although, having said that - Inverness CT and Livingston both crop up in the Scottish Cup in the 'Real' file.  Livingston would be easy enough to change the names etc. but the kits and logos would still be for Livingston (I have no idea regarding kits/logos etc.)  Inverness CT would be a bit more of a minefield, to decide which players went where etc.  It might be easier to make it so that those two teams just can't qualify for the cup, in which case there would be no problem?

[cel1234]

1966-67

 

First round

 

DATE Raith Rovers v Dunfermline Athletic W-L

 

 

 

Semi-final

 

2 Nov East Fife v Cowdenbeath 2-1

 

2 May Raith Rovers v Burntisland Shipyard 6-2

 

 

 

Final

 

6 May Raith Rovers v East Fife 5-1 (at Stark’s Park)

[cel1234]

1966-1967

 

22^nd August 1966                       Round 1            Third Lanark 2, Clyde 2

5^th September 1966                    Replay              Third Lanark 1, Clyde 3 aet (90 mins 1-1) venue – Cathkin Park

23^rd August 1966                       Round 1            Celtic 4, Rangers 0

10^th October 1966                      Semi-Final         Celtic 4, Queen’s Park 0

12^th October 1966                      Semi-final         Partick Thistle 2, Clyde 1

7^th November 1966                     Final                 Celtic 4, Partick Thistle 0 (at Parkhead)

[cel1234]

1966-67

First Round     

Oct 5th 66- East Stirlingshire v Falkirk                  1-2

Oct 17th  Dumbarton v Stirling Albion     1-1 (Stirling Albion won on toss of coin)

 

Semi final       

April 4th  Stirling Albion v Stenhousemuir           0-0 (Stenhousemuir won on toss of coin)

April 17th   Alloa Athletic v Falkirk                        0-1

 

Final   

April 27th  Falkirk v Stenhousemuir         5-1

[cel1234]

Forfarshire Cup – 1966-67

1^st round:

          Forfar Athletic                          0        Dundee                                    3                 Sep 26

          Montrose                                 1        Brechin City                              3                 Dec 26

          Dundee United                         bye

          Arbroath                                   bye

Semi-finals:

          Dundee                                    2        Arbroath                                   1                 Oct 24 

          Dundee United                         7        Brechin City                              3                 Aug 23 1967

Final:

          Dundee                                    4        Dundee United                         3                 May 4 1968

(at Dens Park, att 7000)

[cel1234]

1966-67

Semi-final

1 May Albion Rovers v Airdrieonians 2-2 (Airdrie won on the toss of a coin)

1 May Motherwell v Hamilton Academical 1-2

 

Final

3 May Hamilton Academical v Airdrieonians 1-2

[cel1234]

1966-67
Semi final
19 Apr 1967 Morton v Rootes (Linwood car plant) 13-1
21 Apr 1967 St Mirren v Moorpark 5-0

Final - 2 legs
13 Nov 1967 St Miren v Morton 2-2
6 Dec 1967 Morton v St Mirren 0-1

 

They have a different non-league team in the semi best check out the page.

[cel1234]

Only one is Aberdeenshire Cup that doesn't have that year.

[mjaferrie]

41 minutes ago, cel1234 said:

Only one is Aberdeenshire Cup that doesn't have that year.

Excellent! I'll put all that in tomorrow morning. 

[mjaferrie]

I've been having way too much fun playing over the last couple of days to get back into the Editor - but it's probably just as well as I really start to find out the problems after a few seasons.

So far I know that the Fixture Rules for the Scottish Cup and Scottish Division 1 are incorrect - the league should have the extra goalkeeper rule while the cup shouldn't.  I don't know how this has come about though, as I haven't changed any of that stuff in the editor...

[Morrissey]

This is great! Good work @mjaferrie

[mjaferrie]

1 hour ago, Morrissey said:

This is great! Good work @mjaferrie

Thank you sir and thanks for your help!  I'm having some trouble with the promotion and relegation to the Highland and Lowland Leagues in the fantasy version which you might be able to point me in the right direction with... The correct teams qualify - as in the Winner of High plays Winner of Low, subsequent winning team plays Bottom of Division 2 - but then after that nothing happens.  If Ross County 'win' promotion, they don't get promoted... If Third Lanark are 'relegated', they don't get relegated... Did you come up against anything similar in your work?

I'll get the file updated with the cup info and correct some bugs over the weekend and should have an update out tomorrow night on the 'Real' file.  Let me know if you guys have any more suggestions! 

[Morrissey]

7 minutes ago, mjaferrie said:

Thank you sir and thanks for your help!  I'm having some trouble with the promotion and relegation to the Highland and Lowland Leagues in the fantasy version which you might be able to point me in the right direction with... The correct teams qualify - as in the Winner of High plays Winner of Low, subsequent winning team plays Bottom of Division 2 - but then after that nothing happens.  If Ross County 'win' promotion, they don't get promoted... If Third Lanark are 'relegated', they don't get relegated... Did you come up against anything similar in your work?

I'll get the file updated with the cup info and correct some bugs over the weekend and should have an update out tomorrow night on the 'Real' file.  Let me know if you guys have any more suggestions! 

Sounds like an issue with the "Fate Actions" - best thing to do is play around with them and try to verify, then test in all honesty! Doesn't seem to follow logic (as is the case with much of the editor...)

[Carlito85]

Been looking forward to this. Great to see that you got it up and running! Got it downloaded and ready to run when I get my UEFA file back and can start my new save.

[mjaferrie]

10 minutes ago, Carlito85 said:

Been looking forward to this. Great to see that you got it up and running! Got it downloaded and ready to run when I get my UEFA file back and can start my new save.

If you can be bothered waiting, I'll have an update with the other cups out tonight man. Otherwise, I've been playing this one loads and loving it. The 2 points for a win makes the leagues so much tighter.

[Carlito85]

2 minutes ago, mjaferrie said:

If you can be bothered waiting, I'll have an update with the other cups out tonight man. Otherwise, I've been playing this one loads and loving it. The 2 points for a win makes the leagues so much tighter.

Oh sweet. Yea I'll grab the update bud. Interested to see how it plays out.

[mjaferrie]

Here's some info on what I've been working on:

East of Scotland Shield: the site @cel1234 linked doesn't give us the correct teams for this competition in 1966-67, and I couldn't find these from elsewhere (unless I in fact did when doing the first version of this and I've forgotten, which isn't at all impossible!) so the competition doesn't change in the update.  It will be competed for between 6 teams who definitely have competed in the competition at some stage - including the only 2 teams we know did compete in the final of the 1966-67 season, Hearts and Hibs, who are joined by Alloa Athletic, Berwick Rangers, Cowdenbeath and Edinburgh University.  If you guys have some opinions - especially regarding Alloa (who compete anyway in the Stirlingshire Cup) and Edinburgh Uni (Spartans, Leith, Tynecastle, Edinburgh City etc. etc...) - let me know!

Glasgow Cup: No major change here as the teams and structure were already correct, but I am trying to get the 1st round draw to replicate real life and the final to be played at Celtic Park in the first season to reflect real life.  After the first season the cup will draw teams according to reputation (to allow for one less game for Celtic and Rangers who are likely to be involved in European football at the same time) - and all other cups will follow suit from season 2 for the same reason.

Stirlingshire and Forfarshire Cups: As with above, the teams were already correct, so I'm just trying to fix the draws so the right draw is made in the first round.  In the Semi Finals in all 3 competitions it should work so that if the "correct" teams win (as in, the same as real life) they will be drawn against the "correct" team they played in real life.  If the "wrong" team wins in the 1st round, they will draw the "correct" team in the Semis.  I hope that makes sense

Ayrshire Cup: No change.  Technically it shouldn't be included in this file at all as it wasn't contested for in 1966-67.  It restarted only 2 seasons later though so I decided to include it (and it starts 2 seasons later in the file too).  Not sure what you guys think - should I get rid of it now I'm including the Fife and Lanarkshire cups?

Aberdeenshire Cup: Owing to a lack of information available, there's no change here - a best guess, with 10 teams (who have competed in the Aberdeenshire Cup at some point) competing.

Fife/Lanarkshire/Renfrewshire: Creating these competitions and hopefully will have the correct draws made.

Anything else?  Do you guys have some other requests - things you think are missing or Easter Eggs you'd like to see?

I have decided against changing the names of Livingston and Inverness CT (and others), purely for the reason that I'm not able to do the logo side of this and having Feranti Thistle with the Livingston logo and Caledonian or Thistle having the ICT logo while the other misses out on one just annoyed me visually.  I'm already containing my rage at the Scottish Division One having the Ladbrokes Premiership logo as it is  I'm not interested in investing time in making logos for this anyway, as they would conflict with other 'normal' saves where you would like to see the normal logos etc.
What I have done though is attempt to have Inverness and Livingston not able to qualify for the Scottish Cup, which will diminish their participation in the file anyway.  Bear in mind, this is all for the 'Real' version - as in the Fantasy version I consider including ICT, Livingston or indeed anything like that fair game.

Just so you guys have an idea with what I'm looking at!

If I can't get the cups to draw the "correct" teams in the first rounds, I might give that part a miss - as long as the cups have the right teams competing, then from season 2 of the save it'll be drawing random teams anyway so I don't see it as a huge issue.  I also need to have a look at the Rootes team for the Renfrewshire cup.  It might involve creating a new team - but to do that for a team that won't compete in any league competitions in the file, or indeed in any other cups, seems a bit pointless.  It might be more value to include an actual league team in their place, so players would have the extra cup to compete for with their save.  Whatcha reckon?

Edit - I know I've included the Ayrshire Cup, so why not Wigtonshire?  Because while yes it did run in 1967-68, this was the last year the cup was competed for so I'm not including it for one year only.  Unless... Easter Egg?

[mjaferrie]

After some research, I can't find much information about Rootes - other than it seems to have been a factory team from the fated car factory at Linwood.  There's plenty about the factory, but no mention of a football team... 
Moorpark are also a tricky one, Moorpark Thistle, Moorpark Amateurs?  Neither are in the game, and as I already explained I'm not a big fan of creating amateur sides that can't be player controlled in the game.  In the update, Renfrewshire player-controllable teams Dumbarton and Clydebank will take their place, and if you guys are really wanting to see Rootes and Moorpark in the file I'll make a further update.

[mjaferrie]

File verifies okay - running some tests now.

[mjaferrie]

The verdict is that everything seems to be working - except the cup draws. 

Here's the file: 1966-67 Scottish Football (Real) UPDATE_0FF9299A-8F9A-4A18-9F61-70BE17AA98E4.fmf

If you'd like to fire up the editor and have a look to see where I'm going wrong in terms of getting the right draw in the cups, that'd be amazing!  (This would actually mean we could get the correct draw for the Scottish Cup as well).  

Otherwise, if you're happy to just go for it without worrying about the correct draws, everything works good! (As far as I can see ).  Inverness CT and Livingston have been made extinct, so they won't pop up in the Scottish Cup.  The following teams have also been made extinct on account of being formed after 1967:

East Kilbride; Cumbernauld Colts; Stirling Uni; BSC Glasgow; Gretna 2008; Gala Fairydean Rovers; Kelty Hearts; Hermes; LTHV; Edusport; Dyce; Hill of Beath; Leith; Penicuik; Inverness City; Strathspey Thistle; Hall Russell Utd; Newburgh Thistle; Maud; St. Ternan; Deveronside; Colony Park; Kennoway Star Hearts; Forfar W.E.; Falkirk Juniors; Nairn St. Ninian; Rossvale; Steelend Vics; Harthill; Fort William; Stoneywood Parkvale; Edinburgh United; Portgordon Vics; Spey Valley United; Tynecastle; Blackburn Utd; Livingston Utd; Fochabers; Easthouses Lily; Whitehills; Rosyth; Craigroyston; Pumpherston; Lochar Thistle; Heston Rovers; Nithsdale; Peebles; Forfar Albion; Gartcairn; Stoneyburn; Kirkcaldy YMCA; E.K. Thistle; Ormiston; Lochmaben; Orkney; Abbey Vale; Heriot-Watt Uni; Glentanar; Halkirk Utd; Thurso; Tweedmouth Rangers; Alness Utd; Inverness Athletic; Dumfries; Gairloch-Aultbea Utd; Tullibody; Tain Thistle; Harestanes.

So none of these teams will interfere with the Scottish Cup either, and we should have a pretty clear file in terms of participating teams.  Touch wood!  

Any problems, lemme know!

[cel1234]

East of Scotland Shield

Livingston instead of Alloa. Cowdenbeath are in Fife Cup

Aberdeenshire Cup Winners

List of Winners

Club	Wins	Last win
Aberdeen	35	2004-05
Peterhead	20	1998-99
Buckie Thistle	13	2016-17
Fraserburgh	10	2015-16
Deveronvale	8	2011-12
Keith	7	2008-09
Huntly	7	1999-00
Victoria United	6	1902-03
Aberdeen FC (1881)	5	1901-02
Orion	5	1900-01
Cove Rangers	2	2010-11
Formartine United	1	2013-14
Aberdeen University	1	1920

[cel1234]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_of_Scotland_Cup

Needs creating Forres Mechanics won it in 1966-67

[mjaferrie]

7 minutes ago, cel1234 said:

East of Scotland Shield

Livingston instead of Alloa. Cowdenbeath are in Fife Cup

Aberdeenshire Cup Winners

List of Winners

Club	Wins	Last win
Aberdeen	35	2004-05
Peterhead	20	1998-99
Buckie Thistle	13	2016-17
Fraserburgh	10	2015-16
Deveronvale	8	2011-12
Keith	7	2008-09
Huntly	7	1999-00
Victoria United	6	1902-03
Aberdeen FC (1881)	5	1901-02
Orion	5	1900-01
Cove Rangers	2	2010-11
Formartine United	1	2013-14
Aberdeen University	1	1920

Cowdenbeath have competed in both competitions IRL - I can remove them from EoS as we don't have a definitive team list for that year but it would be good to find a replacement to maintain the structure.  Livingston, on the other hand, are now defunct, for the above reasons - so I won't replace Alloa with them at least.  Open to other options!  Edinburgh City and Spartans (or ____________) in for Cowdenbeath and Alloa?  

I've seen that list of Aberdeenshire Cup winners - but I'm not sure what you're suggesting here.  Do you want me to include all those teams in the cup?  I've gone for 10 teams that definitely have competed in the competition at some stage.

I'll get on the NoS Cup in the morning!

[cel1234]

Because the EOS Cup or Shield is only played by Hearts and Hibs. Yes Edinburgh City and Spartans would be a fine replacement.

Aberdeenshire Cup thought you didn't have teams so that is fine.

[mjaferrie]

1 hour ago, cel1234 said:

Because the EOS Cup or Shield is only played by Hearts and Hibs. Yes Edinburgh City and Spartans would be a fine replacement.

Aberdeenshire Cup thought you didn't have teams so that is fine.

Are you taking that from the SFHA?  My interpretation of when they wrote the Final is that there was only information about the final, but given they have pretty good details of teams from before and after that period I think you're probably right actually.

Nowadays I think is just played between Hearts and Hibs, yes.  My understanding was that originally it was a knockout competition competed for between several clubs based in Edinburgh and the surrounding area, with the Edinburgh FA clubs who compete in the Scottish leagues qualifying automatically, and Edinburgh FA clubs in leagues lower down competing in the East of Scotland Qualifying Cup.  Teams who make it to the latter stages of EoSQC then qualified to Eos Shield.  

As the EoS Shield between 1953 and 1970 was only competed for between Hearts and Hibs (if the SFHA isn't only showing those results because earlier stages aren't known) then I'd be happy to strip it back in the file to those two teams.

What do you think?  

[cel1234]

I did see The competition was a knockout tournament for football clubs based in Edinburgh and the surrounding area. Besides Hearts and Hibs, these clubs included Alloa Athletic, Armadale, Bathgate, Berwick Rangers, Bo'ness, Bonnyrigg Rose, Cowdenbeath, Edinburgh University, Leith Athletic, Lochgelly United, Meadowbank Thistle and St Bernard's.  for the Shield

East of Scotland (City) Cup: Finalists of the East of Scotland Qualifying Cup join Berwick Rangers and Livingston in single-legged semi-finals and final, which go straight to penalties if drawn after 90 minutes. The 4 EoSFA members in the national leagues (Berwick, Hearts, Hibernian, Livingston) used to all enter, but now the Hearts and Hibernian reserve teams contest the East of Scotland Shield - albeit intermittently.

Not sure of 1966-67 format but i reckon Berwick and Edinburgh City as Livingston is defunct.

The East of Scotland Qualifying Cup: currently sponsored by Image Printers. All 20 EoSFA members playing in the EOSFL enter. The finalists join the first teams of Berwick Rangers and Livingston in the East of Scotland (City) Cup. Straight knock-out without replays.