3-5-2/5-3-2 Juventus Counter Attacking

[Tommithy]

I'm trying to create a counter attacking tactic using a variant of the 3-5-2 formation  

So far it has be going well and after 20 league games I have won 16 drawn 2 and lost 2 but I feel the tactic still has some issues and needs some tweaking. For instance often it seems difficult for the team to break down oppositions that play deep and defensive and this is exemplified in my champions league games where I have drawn 3 matches 0-0 with Celtic, Basel and Porto. In my last match I was knocked out of the Italian Cup in the first round on penalties after a 0-0 with Pescara. I understand that playing a defensive style like this will have its shortcomings and I'm wanting to know if there's anything I can do to improve the tactic for these situations. I have attached some pkms of matches I have lost to help give an idea of the problems. Sorry I'm not sure what details to include so just ask if there's anything I should add. 

Juventus v Genoa.pkm

Juventus v Pescara.pkm

Napoli v Juventus.pkm

[Knoblauch]

I play a very similar formation with Parma (just promoted to Serie B). A couple of things helped mine break down teams (especially in the 2nd part of the season, when teams began to put everyone in defense/DM strata) like increasing the width and getting a couple of more attack duties in there. For me it was my WBR and MCL (i played with a flat 3-midfield). I also play with a counter-mentality. 

 

How are you doing with the number of longshots from your midfield right now? I imagine you dominate possession, but do not seem to have a lot of players running into space. 

[RTHerringbone]

21 minutes ago, Knoblauch said:

I imagine you dominate possession, but do not seem to have a lot of players running into space. 

This for me is the key observation. You won't be triggering true FM counter attacks often with Juve ,  so the lack of that Mentality boost means you just don't have enough movement between the lines. With three DCs you can easily have at least one attack duty full back, and the same in MC when you struggle to break teams down.

[summatsupeer]

As RTHerringbone noted you have 3 CBs and a low mentality so you can afford to be more adventurous and I would do it by getting more from Marchisio in a playmaker type role.

In my opinion in FM16 he was the most complete deep playmaker, not just good with the ball but also able to defend really well.  I'd consider a DLP-S role for him and maybe give Pjanic a CM-A role to make runs past the F9-S.

[BlueAnderson]

Put both of your wingback on attack and get back to me :).

[Tommithy]

14 hours ago, Knoblauch said:

I imagine you dominate possession

No I really don't, usually I have 40-50% possession and against Pescara I had only 39% possesion. 

14 hours ago, RTHerringbone said:

This for me is the key observation. You won't be triggering true FM counter attacks often with Juve ,  so the lack of that Mentality boost means you just don't have enough movement between the lines. With three DCs you can easily have at least one attack duty full back, and the same in MC when you struggle to break teams down.

If I changed my CM to attack and one of my wing backs to attack, that would mean I'd have 3 attack duties in my team and that feels like too many for counter attacking and I feel I'd lose my defensive shape. 

 

11 hours ago, summatsupeer said:

I would do it by getting more from Marchisio in a playmaker type role.

If I used a deep playmaker, surely that would slow down the counter attacks as my team looks to get the ball to him rather than just attack?

[summatsupeer]

40 minutes ago, Tommithy said:

No I really don't, usually I have 40-50% possession and against Pescara I had only 39% possesion. 

If I changed my CM to attack and one of my wing backs to attack, that would mean I'd have 3 attack duties in my team and that feels like too many for counter attacking and I feel I'd lose my defensive shape. 

 

If I used a deep playmaker, surely that would slow down the counter attacks as my team looks to get the ball to him rather than just attack?

Your Juventus, how many teams will actually attack you and leave space for you to counter attack?  Wouldn't you agree most teams would be happy just getting a point in a 0-0 bore draw, maybe getting lucky with a set piece goal to steal a win.

If a counter attack is on, your team will ignore there instructions and go all out attack, so a DLP will not slow down counter attacks.  You need a plan B for when a counter attack isn't available, which as i've said above, will be most of the time you have the ball.  Hence your "counter" mentality setting is just a lower risk style, having a creative role who will play a few more risks will help towards that plan B.

[RTHerringbone]

20 minutes ago, Tommithy said:

If I changed my CM to attack and one of my wing backs to attack, that would mean I'd have 3 attack duties in my team and that feels like too many for counter attacking and I feel I'd lose my defensive shape. 

But in general terms, you don't need to worry about that as you're Juventus and teams will continue to sit back. Your issue was breaking down deep, defensive sides, so your defensive shape is less of an issue in that sort of match.

[James9]

10 hours ago, RTHerringbone said:

But in general terms, you don't need to worry about that as you're Juventus and teams will continue to sit back. Your issue was breaking down deep, defensive sides, so your defensive shape is less of an issue in that sort of match.

Summat/RTH  by using a low risk mentality like counter and then just add some attacking roles would this a good starting point if you are top team looking to play patient low risk football. Also would this help to pull out the eams that sit deep. 

I do not like high risk mentalities like Control attacking or overload. I am not keen on Standard either

I am playing as Arsenal and half of the teams will sit deep against me making it very hard to break them down. I was playing on Control + Flexible 4411 shape. I was just thinking if switching to Mentality with a low risk and just add additional attack duties Might do the trick. Against sides who sit deep What do you think about playing Counter+ Structured shape.

I will also use the Play out of Defence shout if I see my team hoofing the ball upfield too much and because structured increases the gaps I will use the push higher up shout to reduce the gaps. 

[Frank27]

On a small note, does a false nine even work with an actual nine right next to him? Nobody will believe him. Higuain even has the number on his back. I'm not sure what the big differences are though between a deep lying striker (S), a false nine (s) and a trequartista beyond the fact that a deep lying striker will hold the ball up.