Th29 Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Mentioned this before on Twitter and apologies if someone has brought it up before. Long, long-time fan of FM even back to the old Champ Manager days. Spent more time on these games than I care to remember, all well spent and absolutely love the games. This year's version has been great, as usual. I've never been a fan of having a number of games running at a time, usually I start one career and stick with it for the whole year, so depending on work commitments etc through the year (the day job) I can usually build around a 10-15 year career. Normally start at my own club (Manchester United) and then move on etc. This year I enjoyed starting away from United and have tried to do as many Jose Mourinho style three year projects as I can (eventually hoping to settle down at United once I've been around the block etc). Career path has been Villa - Valencia - Spain - Bayern - England - Chelsea - Italy - AC Milan - Barcelona (current) [although the United job has finally come up six months into my start at Barca which is a conundrum]. Been pretty successful this year: kept Villa up in mid-table with that squad; Copa del Rey at Valencia; shocker at Spain; 3 x Bundesliga, 2 x Pokal 2x Champions League Runner Up; 1 x Confederations Cup, 1 x World Cup with England; 3 x Premier League, 1x Corporate Cup, 1 x FA Cup; Euro Champ Semi-Final; 1x Serie A in only season. The only thing I have noticed in this year's game compared to previous year's (last year was a Champions League winner at Porto and Inter x2; before that 3x at United the year before's game) is my seemingly inexplicably barren Champions League record. This year the Champions League seems to have gone a bit crazy. Overall career win rate in this year's game is 63%. In the CL that is only 50% and in the knockout phases only 23%. Same squad, tactics and style that is good enough to win the Premier League 3x consecutive, 3x consecutive Bundesliga, the World and Confeds Cup and Serie A doesn't translate to the Champions League. Now I accept the CL is a different animal, super competitive and a hard-slog. What i've noticed though is just how difficult this year has been - with some amazing squads its been a real fight to the death to make it out of the group, more often than not to go out at the 1st knockout or QF to Olympiakos. I'm not naive or gung-ho in Europe, I've tried all sorts of tactics from counter, to defensive to simple attack, attack, attack all to no avail. My own managerial or tactical shortcomings aside, I think the CL has been a bit unrealistically hard this year. Anyway, the background to my career this year is not just self-confident fanfare but informs my new feature request as I think i've noticed a gap that could usefully and easily be filled: That feature is for you as manager on FM to be able to 'Announce Future Intentions' to add some narrative to your own career story (we all have a story to our career inside our heads, don't try to deny it). In a nutsell, I've watched the evolution of the manager market in the last couple of seasons and think a pattern is developing (has already developed) which can be reflected in FM 17. That pattern is that more and more managers are making decisions about their future earlier on. Now I know this is possible to add/do because in this year's game at the end of the first season, Pellegrini leaves City, Guardiola comes in, Carlo goes to Bayern as a pre-set in line with what really happened. Now from my little background story above (and i'm sure there are loads of managers who like to do this too) I like to take on a two-three year project at a club before moving on to pastures new. I think FM 17 would benefit from us managers being able to make an announcement about our future. When Pep was at Bayern and at Barcelona if memory serves, he announced he was stepping down at the end of the season from that job. I think we managers should have the option to make such a statement/decision and to tell the world about it. The options are that we could either call a press conference, make a statement to the press, or a journalist could get it out of you at a presser that you are intending to step down from your current role at the end of the season (not mid-season or 'i'm quitting next week in December', that would be silly/unrealistic). There could be a follow up question as to why (e.g. 'i've come to the end of the cycle, or I want to take a step up, new challenge, not settled here etc'). Conversely, you could also be on a temporary contract (I deal with this below) or nearing the end of a contract where you 'announce future intentions' and declare your desire to stay or to fight for a new contract beyond your current one. One thing I would add is that you could be under huge pressure in a job and appease the board and the fans by saying 'okay, fair kop, we're not doing very well or its not working and i'll go off with my tail between my legs at the end of the season' to buy some time (it may not work, you still may get the sack anyway!). This feature would work at both club and international level - loads of international managers say they are stepping down after the next World Cup or next major tournament or qualifying competition, e.g. Eriksson at England World Cup 2006 to name but one example. At the moment, when I feel i've completed my project at a club after a couple of years or whatever my only options are to 'Retire' (NEVER! You'll have to drag my cold dead body from this manager's office aged 98 in game terms!) or to 'Resign' on the spot with no background informing the choice. Resigning out of the blue comes as a big shock in the game, looks disloyal, ruins your status as fan favourite and always leads to questions at the next interview of 'why do you always resign?'. It shouldn't be like this. You should be able to mutually and amicably part ways and announce your desire to do so. The board may think 'well fair enough, we'll move on' or even try to persuade you to stay if you're doing well. I think as manager I should be able to go to a club, take a three year contract and for my task to be for example 'get us into Europe, win us the title, rebuild this squad, keep us in the league etc' and once you've succeeded (or failed and got the sack or resigned in disgrace or whatever) then you should be able to acknowledge 'i've done my job I was asked to do and now i'm off'. The way to allow for this is to add an option on the drop down where the options to retire or resign are called 'announce future intentions' - call a press conference, release a statement or speak to the board and then your different options for what you want to do. On the last point, 'speak to the board' allows the opening up of an actual relationship/dialogue with your employer which, relaistically, all managers have in some form. You may wish to go to board and do them the courtesy of saying you are thinking of or will be stepping down. They may not accept or it or may reluctantly do so. If you do it that way then the board announce that you will step down instead of doing it yourself. Calling your own press conference or allowing the club to announce it may affect your stats for you 'professionalism' as a manager. The board may get the hump and question your loyalty or may persuade you not to go. Having a dialogue with the board is realistic and can be improved when it comes to new contracts. First things first, if you turn a new contract down then you are a pariah and practically finished at the club. You don't at the moment have an option as to whether you want to be offered one or not. Before you get offered a renewal you the board should start by coming to you and asking 'would you be open to a contract extension?'. Responses, 'no, i've decided to step down', 'yes, i'd love to stay at this club' or 'maybe, i'm certainly open to it'. After that (if its a no then the board announces you're off at the end of the season) you should be able to discuss the future of the club with the board - if I stay for three more years, what are we hoping to achieve, where do you want the club to be (winning the league, in europe, promoted, safe mid-table etc), what investment will there be (are we in for splashing some cash or three years of making do with what we've got and belt-tightening?), will we build a new stadium or expand the youth facilities etc. All these should be able to inform the decision as to whether you stay at a club and extend your contract or go to another club, maybe a more ambitious one. If you make an announcement in, say, January to step down at the end of the season - this could play one of two ways depending on the mentality of the squad and your relationship with them. You either become a lame-duck manager and the squad goes off the boil with results to follow (Pellegrini at City) or the squad is motivated to perform for you (and a new manager coming in), driving them on to better things to give you a special end. If you do announce you are going, you should be able to talk to other clubs as to take over somewhere else in the summer. Alternatively, another club's manager may be leaving so you are in line to take over there at the end of the season after he/she steps down. Further, most clubs who have a manger leaving via the sack or stepping down will have options before the announcement is made (sometimes they won't), but you should be able to secretly talk to other clubs (if you are unemployed or at a club for example) about taking over from a manager who is about to be sacked. You could leak it to the press (affecting your level of professionalism) or it could get out and anger your current club and put you in a sticky situation. The reality is that most clubs have a successor waiting in the wings when they sack a manager. Being able to negotiate a future job is something that happens in real-life that would be a great addition to FM17. One other thing that could be improved could be to have manager rumours as well as player one, which happen all the time e.g. news story: John Smith might be tempted to leave Club at the end of the season - the manager is unsettled or isn't seeing eye to eye with the board or wants a new challenge or may want to take some time out. Other such rumours of the like leaving you forced to confirm, deny or dodge the the story - I know there are already some stories about end of contract rumours, but more could be added. Final suggestion: I've seen someone else somewhere else suggest this so can't take credit but the idea of taking over as caretaker manager or interim head coach in all sort of situations is a great idea. Hope this is a good idea for an addition. Keep up the great work FM! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner86 Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Really great post If I remember correctly you used to have the option of taking a job at the end of the season, but it got removed a few editions ago and I could never work out why. Would be great to see it back and expanded on in some of the ways you've suggested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Just now, gunner86 said: If I remember correctly you used to have the option of taking a job at the end of the season, but it got removed a few editions ago and I could never work out why. It's still there. The option is available during the final 3rd of the season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner86 Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Just now, HUNT3R said: It's still there. The option is available during the final 3rd of the season. Well that'll teach me for taking interviews in January... Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th29 Posted September 6, 2016 Author Share Posted September 6, 2016 16 hours ago, gunner86 said: Really great post If I remember correctly you used to have the option of taking a job at the end of the season, but it got removed a few editions ago and I could never work out why. Would be great to see it back and expanded on in some of the ways you've suggested. Glad you like the idea. I know what you mean about that option to take a job on at the end of the season. I always thought the purpose of that button was for if you're unemployed and taking over a struggling club to start knowing if they are going to be relegated first (or promoted). Trouble with that option as it exists now is that to get to that stage you have already had to 'declare interest' in the job and apply for it before you get to the contract stage and it always gets leaked to the press and you don't have much choice but to move once you've done it because you're finished at your current club for disloyalty! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner86 Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 22 minutes ago, Th29 said: Glad you like the idea. I know what you mean about that option to take a job on at the end of the season. I always thought the purpose of that button was for if you're unemployed and taking over a struggling club to start knowing if they are going to be relegated first (or promoted). Trouble with that option as it exists now is that to get to that stage you have already had to 'declare interest' in the job and apply for it before you get to the contract stage and it always gets leaked to the press and you don't have much choice but to move once you've done it because you're finished at your current club for disloyalty! Yeah, there's definitely a lot of scope for improvement. I suggested a while ago that having an agent for managers might help give the game a little more depth when it came to having a career/journeyman game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th29 Posted September 13, 2016 Author Share Posted September 13, 2016 On 9/6/2016 at 10:16, gunner86 said: Yeah, there's definitely a lot of scope for improvement. I suggested a while ago that having an agent for managers might help give the game a little more depth when it came to having a career/journeyman game. Yeah, i'm pretty sure most managers have agents - but you never seem to hear about them that much. Isn't Koeman's brother his agent (not the assistant manager one) and same for Frank and Ronald De Boer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner86 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 This was my idea, I made a new thread as it was originally suggested in the old wishlist thread Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannes Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 You don't want the champions league to be a challenge? Really strange attitude. Savescum if that's how you feel about it, really. I'm in my 21'st season with Bath City and have since making into the premier league won the euro league once (out of one attempt). And the champions league once ( 5 attempts) The 4 other seasons in champions league have ended thrice in the quarter finals and once in the 1st knockout round. I've yet to win the premier league which I frankly am finding a bigger challenge than champions league where I pretty much walk the group stage every year. Admittedly the year I won, I got the absolute easiest opponent possible at every round in the knockout phase... This season I'm trailing arsenal by 4 points at the top of the league, semi tough champions league qual opponent in Lazio was overcome in order to walk the group stage with 6 wins. FC Copenhagen should be an easy opponent in the first knockout round, hopefully this will be a successful season! Am loving this game and its is finally becoming the challenge it is meant to be. Still some AI improvements that could be wished for to make it even harder imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner86 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 12 minutes ago, Cannes said: You don't want the champions league to be a challenge? Really strange attitude. Savescum if that's how you feel about it, really. I'm in my 21'st season with Bath City and have since making into the premier league won the euro league once (out of one attempt). And the champions league once ( 5 attempts) The 4 other seasons in champions league have ended thrice in the quarter finals and once in the 1st knockout round. I've yet to win the premier league which I frankly am finding a bigger challenge than champions league where I pretty much walk the group stage every year. Admittedly the year I won, I got the absolute easiest opponent possible at every round in the knockout phase... This season I'm trailing arsenal by 4 points at the top of the league, semi tough champions league qual opponent in Lazio was overcome in order to walk the group stage with 6 wins. FC Copenhagen should be an easy opponent in the first knockout round, hopefully this will be a successful season! Am loving this game and its is finally becoming the challenge it is meant to be. Still some AI improvements that could be wished for to make it even harder imo. This has nothing to do with anything in this thread...? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannes Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 1 hour ago, gunner86 said: This has nothing to do with anything in this thread...? Reread your own first paragraph? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner86 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 4 minutes ago, Cannes said: Reread your own first paragraph? I see where you're referring to and: a) that wasn't me b) was an aside to the OP's explanation of his career more than anything else Admittedly, I was wrong as your comment did indeed refer to something in this thread, although it remains essentially off-topic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannes Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 6 minutes ago, gunner86 said: I see where you're referring to and: a) that wasn't me b) was an aside to the OP's explanation of his career more than anything else Admittedly, I was wrong as your comment did indeed refer to something in this thread, although it remains essentially off-topic If he didn't want to have a discussion about CL difficulty in his thread, then surely he shouldn't have included it in his OP? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner86 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 1 minute ago, Cannes said: If he didn't want to have a discussion about CL difficulty in his thread, then surely he shouldn't have included it in his OP? It was the background to the feature request On 9/5/2016 at 14:23, Th29 said: Anyway, the background to my career this year is not just self-confident fanfare but informs my new feature request as I think i've noticed a gap that could usefully and easily be filled: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannes Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, gunner86 said: It was the background to the feature request Be that as it may, my point still stands. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner86 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Not really, the discussion is about a feature idea for announcing future intentions of managers in the game. It's posted in the Feature Requests section of the forum under the title of "Announcing Future Intentions" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th29 Posted September 27, 2016 Author Share Posted September 27, 2016 On 13/09/2016 at 16:13, Cannes said: Be that as it may, my point still stands. Been away for a while. I don't know what 'savescum' is/are but if you mean what I think you do about saving before playing a game to go back a replay it to get a win, well.. if I had done that then I wouldn't be talking about being a two-time runner up and difficulties in the CL. To be honest if I wanted to win every game regardless I'd spend my time playing FIFA 16 set on amateur difficulty! Anyway, as pointed out above and as per the title of the thread, it's a discussion about announcing future intentions mainly. The career stuff at the beginning is just background which explains why the new feature is relevant and how it arises. The CL thing was a simple 'by the by' aside. Thanks for for reading though - hope you liked the actual idea itself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th29 Posted September 27, 2016 Author Share Posted September 27, 2016 Correct Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevomcdevo Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 On 05/09/2016 at 14:23, Th29 said: you should be able to secretly talk to other clubs (if you are unemployed or at a club for example) about taking over from a manager who is about to be sacked. I would love this! Top post and great, simple ideas that would definitely improve the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 On 9/5/2016 at 08:23, Th29 said: If you do announce you are going, you should be able to talk to other clubs as to take over somewhere else in the summer. Alternatively, another club's manager may be leaving so you are in line to take over there at the end of the season after he/she steps down. Further, most clubs who have a manger leaving via the sack or stepping down will have options before the announcement is made (sometimes they won't), but you should be able to secretly talk to other clubs (if you are unemployed or at a club for example) about taking over from a manager who is about to be sacked. You could leak it to the press (affecting your level of professionalism) or it could get out and anger your current club and put you in a sticky situation. The reality is that most clubs have a successor waiting in the wings when they sack a manager. I agree that it would be really nice in a game to secretly seek out other employment opportunities without your current employers or the media knowing, like you can in real life, but I saw someone else mention in another thread that this might be illegal and so the game faithfully represents that? I'm a bit confused by it all. Say your club gets relegated but your board keep you on. It seems like you should be able to see if you can get hired by a club that is going to / still in the top flight without having to resign, because, it's not that you necessarily want to leave your current club (there wouldn't really be another club in the second tier better to be at than one that just went down that you've already shaped to your image) but you would obviously love to take a step up to another league if possible. Being able to shop around behind closed doors allows you to see your options. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dspeters Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 The OP was quite a bit to read, but totally worth it! This in combination with the suggested manager's agent could potentially be one of the best ideas on this forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batuhan Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Read it all. These are really good suggestions, I would love to see these in game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th29 Posted October 18, 2016 Author Share Posted October 18, 2016 Thanks all - I haven't really been able to tell yet but I think something along these lines could well be in FM17? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Neil Brock Posted December 30, 2016 Administrators Share Posted December 30, 2016 Reviewed so locked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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