Antonio Conte - Juventus, anybody cracked this?

[Dr. Hook]

Erm, isn't the other way around Doc? Counter mentality has long passing at the back, and shorter more patient build up in attack...?

Ehhh yeah, I always get those tangled up in my brain. Probably time to resign as a mod or at least post when I am not home sick

[bennymc]

Nothing to see here, just the incoherent ramblings of a terrible tactics moderator

'Nothing to see' I know, but I hadn't appreciated that the passing style changed between positions on the field. Made the incorrect assumption that attacking = direct all over the pitch. I will try it with Counter and see how I get on.

[Dr. Hook]

'Nothing to see' I know, but I hadn't appreciated that the passing style changed between positions on the field. Made the incorrect assumption that attacking = direct all over the pitch. I will try it with Counter and see how I get on.

Well, then it was useful . Yes, so the defensive mentalities play more direct at the back and short at the front, and vice versa and standard I believe has it set to the same across the board.

[RTHerringbone]

Mentality: I read it as the opposite, that more direct play would be achieved by being more Attacking. Also on the low block, my instinct said to take that route because of the age/pace of the defence, but the article seemed to suggest the opposite. Happy to put this down to my own misinterpretation, of course, I just think it's great that we can read the same article and reach different conclusions when interpreting it in FM.

I'm curious about your choice of instructions regarding the wing backs, that's something I couldn't think how to re-create in FM, so I think I'll try your way on for size.

My perspective was simple. There was an inference that Juve played a counter attacking style against Inter. So by using that FM Mentality, I get the deep defensive line but also direct play from the defenders to enable us to move quickly up field. In one of the linked articles it was suggested that Juve aren't adverse to the idea of hitting the odd long ball forward and bypassing midfield altogether, so it's that "direct" that I feel is reasonably approximated using Counter Mentality.

[Federico]

I read this thread very quickly since I came late, but I can maybe give my 2 cents about this Conte's 3-5-2. I'm not a fan of the 3 at back and I have never played that formation on FM, but what I noticed that should be probably corrected from your post RTH, is that you choose Rugani and Caceres as BPDs and Bonucci as Central Defender. It is certain that Bonucci is claimed to have a pretty good technic style and good vision of play (something I disagree with) and under Conte's dictat, he was instructed to start the attacking move by playing the ball short or by long balls directed towards forwards. During the offensive build up, the other 2 DCs spread wide, and you'll find the 2 WBs lined to the other midfielders. Conte gives to his teams a lot of aggressivity and generally the 2 WBs were completely and literally exhausted around 60-70 minute because they really need to cope both offensive and defensive phasis.

Allegri prefers a slower tempo retaining possession, the duties of the WBs aren't de facto changed but the low tempo dictated by the team allow them to rush up and get back easily.

With Conte, the secret was the heart of the team, I mean the midfielders. Their forward runs were hot blades into butter, Vidal and Marchisio scored respectively 7 and 9 goals during the season 2011/2012, 10 and 6 during season 2012/2013. Also, the 2 WBs (Lichtsteiner especially) used to cut inside giving the Regista a further option for a good assist (here

you can see his goal against Parma in 2011 - the first of 4 goals scored that day by Juve).

And finally the forwards. Considering his last season the favourite couple was made by Llorente and Tevez. He wanted them to play very near each other. He wanted defenders to focus on them so to allow wide players to exploit the flanks but also allow runs from deep by midfielders. Conte is a very strict manager but you're sure after the match all the players gave their 120%.

Basically all the play was developed so to allow wingbacks to continously bomb ball in. During the season 2011/2012 Juve won the Legue undefeated, but what the team was definitely lacking of a good header in the box considering the way Conte choose to play.

Allegri gave more freedom to Tevez and I can surely say this was of great benefit for the team and for himself. He liked to play between the lines, he was strong and nippy, explosive and determined. The play on the flanks was reduced favouring a slow tempo short passing game, with immediate acceleration on the final third. A +1 for Allegri is his tactical ductility. Playing Champions League he abandoned the possession game for a much more direct and countering tactic.

The same tactic producing 2 very different ways to play. At the moment Mandzukic - Dybala look really much, with right proportion, to the old couple Llorente - Tevez.

Dybala has great determination, you can find him on the midfield looking for balls to play, he always get back to recover lost possession, and techically is impressive. He plays between the lines dismantling the densive lines of the opponent. This role was covered magnificently, in my opinion, on FM 15 with the role of "trequartista", role that I haven't played this season. Mandzukic and Llorente are Anchor Men by definition, but the croatian can give much more pression to the opp's defenders.

The fact that Allegri plays much more cautiously compared to Conte is proven by the fact that at the moment the only midfielder who scores is Pogba, the one who is allowed to be more naif on the pitch. Something that must be balanced I assume.

[iamneallyons]

I read this thread very quickly since I came late, but I can maybe give my 2 cents about this Conte's 3-5-2. I'm not a fan of the 3 at back and I have never played that formation on FM, but what I noticed that should be probably corrected from your post RTH, is that you choose Rugani and Caceres as BPDs and Bonucci as Central Defender. It is certain that Bonucci is claimed to have a pretty good technic style and good vision of play (something I disagree with) and under Conte's dictat, he was instructed to start the attacking move by playing the ball short or by long balls directed towards forwards. During the offensive build up, the other 2 DCs spread wide, and you'll find the 2 WBs lined to the other midfielders. Conte gives to his teams a lot of aggressivity and generally the 2 WBs were completely and literally exhausted around 60-70 minute because they really need to cope both offensive and defensive phasis.

Allegri prefers a slower tempo retaining possession, the duties of the WBs aren't de facto changed but the low tempo dictated by the team allow them to rush up and get back easily.

With Conte, the secret was the heart of the team, I mean the midfielders. Their forward runs were hot blades into butter, Vidal and Marchisio scored respectively 7 and 9 goals during the season 2011/2012, 10 and 6 during season 2012/2013. Also, the 2 WBs (Lichtsteiner especially) used to cut inside giving the Regista a further option for a good assist (here

you can see his goal against Parma in 2011 - the first of 4 goals scored that day by Juve).

And finally the forwards. Considering his last season the favourite couple was made by Llorente and Tevez. He wanted them to play very near each other. He wanted defenders to focus on them so to allow wide players to exploit the flanks but also allow runs from deep by midfielders. Conte is a very strict manager but you're sure after the match all the players gave their 120%.

Basically all the play was developed so to allow wingbacks to continously bomb ball in. During the season 2011/2012 Juve won the Legue undefeated, but what the team was definitely lacking of a good header in the box considering the way Conte choose to play.

Allegri gave more freedom to Tevez and I can surely say this was of great benefit for the team and for himself. He liked to play between the lines, he was strong and nippy, explosive and determined. The play on the flanks was reduced favouring a slow tempo short passing game, with immediate acceleration on the final third. A +1 for Allegri is his tactical ductility. Playing Champions League he abandoned the possession game for a much more direct and countering tactic.

The same tactic producing 2 very different ways to play. At the moment Mandzukic - Dybala look really much, with right proportion, to the old couple Llorente - Tevez.

Dybala has great determination, you can find him on the midfield looking for balls to play, he always get back to recover lost possession, and techically is impressive. He plays between the lines dismantling the densive lines of the opponent. This role was covered magnificently, in my opinion, on FM 15 with the role of "trequartista", role that I haven't played this season. Mandzukic and Llorente are Anchor Men by definition, but the croatian can give much more pression to the opp's defenders.

The fact that Allegri plays much more cautiously compared to Conte is proven by the fact that at the moment the only midfielder who scores is Pogba, the one who is allowed to be more naif on the pitch. Something that must be balanced I assume.

The only problem with using a trequartista is that you said dybala can be found rushing in midfield to recover the ball - the treq doesnt do that, he looks for space and doesnt get involved in recovering the ball at all.. sounds like a defensive forward all things considered?

[Beren]

Hi,

By my experience watching Serie A and Italian National Team matches, I understand that Antonio Conte plays with his wing backs assuming a very wide position on the pitch. Therefore, I have my wing backs - attack set with the "stay wide" instruction and my team has the "large" shout ticked. With those instructions I achieved what I wanted from my team on the wing backs point of view.

However, I am also aware that Conte and his mentor Ventura, to mention another italian manager, always ask their two strikers to play very near and play some technical and quick combination. I would like to ask if anyone has any advice in order to achieve this purpose along with the previous instructions.

Just for your comfort, this is my tactic:

Gk/d

Wb/a Cd/c Bpd/x Cd/c Wb/a

B2B/s Dlp/D Cm/s

Dlf/s Af/a

Standard

Very structured

Play Large

A little higher

Play from back

More discipline

Early crosses

It's really not a matter of roles (right now: DLF/S AF/A), I' m still working on it - anyway if anyone wants to share his opinion is welcome. The real problem is that my two strikers play too much far one from the other in my opinion and I would like them to act more like a Pellè-Eder couple (just to name the National Team strikers).

Thank you in advance, I apologize for my poor english!

[herne79]

Hi Beren, welcome to the Forum .

Following Italy's brilliant tactical demonstration when they beat Belgium 2-0 at Euro 2016, somebody has started a thread called "Antonio Conte's Tactical Masterclass" on this very forum. You should be able to find it easily.

You may get some tips and ideas from there.

[iamneallyons]

On 15/06/2016 at 17:55, herne79 said:

Hi Beren, welcome to the Forum .

Following Italy's brilliant tactical demonstration when they beat Belgium 2-0 at Euro 2016, somebody has started a thread called "Antonio Conte's Tactical Masterclass" on this very forum. You should be able to find it easily.

You may get some tips and ideas from there.

tbh we where quite ahead of the times on this wasnt we