4-3-3 SchemeServe (FM15)

[EdJames]

what should i set the teams mentality and team shape as? there is no mention of this after looking at the images of the latest (433 SchemeServe v15.2.1) linked page that you have provided.

Thanks

Very Rigid and Control.

There's a ton of individual player instructions though, so you need to download it rather than try and build it yourself. The player instructions are vital.

[EdJames]

Tried it with Man Utd for 1 1/2 seasons but had to scrap it as it totally stopped working for me in the second season. In general there seem to be too many shots from long distance and to few good chnaces being created unfortunately I get at least 3 CCCs now against me no matter how week the opponent is. The main problem that I see is that the entire attacks run through the center which leads to the AI blocking this area with a massive amount of players (4-5-1/4-1-4-1) and just hammering long passes forward that my defenders sooner or later miss which always leads to players getting clear through on goal. Offside doesn't seem to do a lot to prevent this.

That being said I liked the high passing percentage and possession stats which was really nice for a change but unfortunately the defensive instability and the toothlessness in attack after a while makes it unusable at this point for me.

The AI doesn't 'crack' a tactic in season 2 and I've played against 5 man midfields regularly without issue as there's a two fold offering of width between the wingback and IF's. Would be interested to see what players you're playing where, getting the right stats in each position entirely dictate it's success or failure. If you're still dominating possession with high pass numbers, their packing the midfield is not actually hampering your play and should be leaving gaps elsewhere.

[EdJames]

Oh okay, didn't know it changes with each patch. Too bad. Anyway, AMAZING work, this is an incredible tactic.

Yeah, very irritating. The whole tactic has to get rethought with each patch.

[EdJames]

Ed, you really have done something special this time round. I implemented the tactic 23 games ago. W19 D3 L1. The loss was a spanking away at Juve in the ECC, but I beat them at home comfortably and went through on away goals. Just beaten Barca 4-3 in the Camp Nou in the semi. Am 4 points clear in the league and am managing to rotate my squad as well because the tactic is superb.

Mario has scored 3 hattricks since implemented as well. Sturridge scored a couple before he got injured as well.

Am in the FA Cup final against Man U as well, so a fantastic season that has been really achieved via various versions of this tactic.

Glad to hear it. I'm having the same sort of success. The Ox has become an absolute worldie for me averaging a goal per game at both international and league level. His form has led to both Walcott and Sanchez heading off to pastures new. Undecided with my best striker at the moment, Munir doesn't offer enough hold up play, Neymar is better suited on the left and Jese doesn't work hard enough. I've got a 17 year old regen who is set for greatness, but he's failed to take his chances thus far.

[Flohrinho]

The AI doesn't 'crack' a tactic in season 2 and I've played against 5 man midfields regularly without issue as there's a two fold offering of width between the wingback and IF's. Would be interested to see what players you're playing where, getting the right stats in each position entirely dictate it's success or failure. If you're still dominating possession with high pass numbers, their packing the midfield is not actually hampering your play and should be leaving gaps elsewhere.

I don't believe I mentioned the word "cracking" anywhere. It just so happens that teams change their approach when playing against you depending on what run of form you are on and your reputation. So I meat a lot of teams that try to park the bus and play very narrow. While that leaves the wings a bit more open for the overlapping WBs it prevented my IFs and striker from getting into any kind of space in the center to score. I often enough ended up games with 32 shots but 18 long shots and stuff like that.

Granted I play my Man Utd save a bit differently than most and set myself the rule to only bring in players that can achieve the home-grown status and don't allow myself to extend contracts of players who can't get the home grown at Man Utd status anymore but in general I felt the players were a fairly good fit for the tactic. Januzaj/Di Maria and Brandt/Young were the inside forwards last season. CBs were Young, Evans, McNair, Rojo who are all fairly fast players albeit not world class defenders I have to say.

The midfield trio were Fletcher/Neves as the CM(D) which probably was a weak spot for me after Carrick and Blind had left. Fletcher isn't all that good anymore and Neves still isn't fully developed albeit a fairly decent DM who by now has reached natural as a in CM as well but granted not the very best of players for this position.

Herrera/Gaudino were my roaming playmakers albeit Guadino still has a lot of room left in development he is already quite good and Herrera fits the roaming playmaker role quite well. As the AP (A) I mainly rotated between Mata/Odegaard and Tielemans or sometimes even Rooney while Mata certainly got the biggest bulk of the game time.

As the strikers I used RvP in my first season who was a beast 32 league goals. Rooney in the second season was still very good 25 league goals but in the third season he was starting to struggle getting a lot of bad ratings due to a lot of long shots going nowhere. Wilson and Zivkovic were my two youngsters for the second and now the third season but neither of them really was a great fit for the role of the F9.

All in all I felt the players certainly weren't an amazing fit but did their job really well for almost 1 1/2 seasons. I only started using the tactic midway through season one. But like I said it became a bit toothless and when I reversed back to my own fairly basic 4-2-3-1 the results started picking up again.

I guess I'll give your tactic another shot once I have developed some of my players further and I still have it as a backup tactic.

[stevyn007]

Hey guys! where is the download in steam? Im signed in and have subscribed but cant see a down load button? can anyone download it elsewhere?

[EdJames]

Hey guys! where is the download in steam? Im signed in and have subscribed but cant see a down load button? can anyone download it elsewhere?

http://bit.ly/14boZXM

There's several hundred thousand explanations there that should help.

[EdJames]

I don't believe I mentioned the word "cracking" anywhere. It just so happens that teams change their approach when playing against you depending on what run of form you are on and your reputation. So I meat a lot of teams that try to park the bus and play very narrow. While that leaves the wings a bit more open for the overlapping WBs it prevented my IFs and striker from getting into any kind of space in the center to score. I often enough ended up games with 32 shots but 18 long shots and stuff like that.

Granted I play my Man Utd save a bit differently than most and set myself the rule to only bring in players that can achieve the home-grown status and don't allow myself to extend contracts of players who can't get the home grown at Man Utd status anymore but in general I felt the players were a fairly good fit for the tactic. Januzaj/Di Maria and Brandt/Young were the inside forwards last season. CBs were Young, Evans, McNair, Rojo who are all fairly fast players albeit not world class defenders I have to say.

The midfield trio were Fletcher/Neves as the CM(D) which probably was a weak spot for me after Carrick and Blind had left. Fletcher isn't all that good anymore and Neves still isn't fully developed albeit a fairly decent DM who by now has reached natural as a in CM as well but granted not the very best of players for this position.

Herrera/Gaudino were my roaming playmakers albeit Guadino still has a lot of room left in development he is already quite good and Herrera fits the roaming playmaker role quite well. As the AP (A) I mainly rotated between Mata/Odegaard and Tielemans or sometimes even Rooney while Mata certainly got the biggest bulk of the game time.

As the strikers I used RvP in my first season who was a beast 32 league goals. Rooney in the second season was still very good 25 league goals but in the third season he was starting to struggle getting a lot of bad ratings due to a lot of long shots going nowhere. Wilson and Zivkovic were my two youngsters for the second and now the third season but neither of them really was a great fit for the role of the F9.

All in all I felt the players certainly weren't an amazing fit but did their job really well for almost 1 1/2 seasons. I only started using the tactic midway through season one. But like I said it became a bit toothless and when I reversed back to my own fairly basic 4-2-3-1 the results started picking up again.

I guess I'll give your tactic another shot once I have developed some of my players further and I still have it as a backup tactic.

Shame it didn't quite work for you, but from what I can see your main problem is the lack of work rate and determination across te front line which is one of the most important parts of recycling possession (and the reason Mourinho sold Mata). Rooney is ideal, but Januzaj, Mata and the like will stop this tactic working. Herrera as you say is a decent bet for RPM but I found Neves, who I signed myself, never quite worked in this formation for some reason despite exceptional stats. He was constantly bettered by Jordan Henderson season upon season a just that for what you will.

Rooney should absolutely be playing upfront in this tactic BTW.

Remember, for the tactic to work, the right players must be used or the framework falls apart. At present the core of your team isn't suitable so you have to either recruit or train around it, or alas, find another tactic.

[dioprem]

Hi Ed. Just to check, are there any PPMs to avoid?

[Nick A]

One area in s2 with LFC on this tactic (and tbh, in s1 as well) that annoys the hell out of me is the dominating of possession and low goals conversion ratio. Now with LFC I have:

Sturridge/Balo as primary F9 and about 30 goals each in s1. Both injured start of s2. Both not great f9s, but can obviously do a job. I currently have Origi/Tielemans getting experience until others return. Both young, but Tielemans will be great as a F9. Origi should be as well as I have the high potential one.

IF's I have Markovic/Suso/Sterling who were all amazing last season.

Midfield I have Romero as CM. Perfect for the role. Hendo on right and Coutinho on left. Again, were great s1. Can as back-up can cover all 3 very well. Stevie G did a job last season, but we all know his legs have gone at present, so not much game time planned for s2. I therefore have Horvath/Kimmich as back-ups. All should fit the tactic ok with good workrate/teamwork.

WB maybe a bit weak but do a job and really hard to find better ones. I certainly haven't found youngsters that are better. An area to work on for the future.

So not scoring enough goals comes from:

1. Free kicks. Rarely actually clear the wall or hit the target. I can count on 2 hands in 60+ games the amount of free kicks actually on target. A real weakness in FM15 by the looks.

2. Blocked shots. Ignoring Balo who has loads in real life anyway, way too many. I would say 50% of all shots are blocked.

3. Players with the ball. No matter who I am playing, the ball gets to the edge of the area and then players just stand around and wait to be tackled. Mostly the ball goes back to me, but attacking momentum lost. With the players I have that should not happen. The players are all moving around as the tactic says they should, but nope the ball carrier runs to the edge of the box and stops. This is happening more in s2 than it was in s1. Maybe because teams are crowding me out by packing the defence.

4. Opposition has 1 or 2 on target out of 5 or 6 shots and scores 100% of those on target. Obviously not all the time, but a fair proportion. With the high work rate of 2 of my CM, that shouldn't happen. But it looks like it is a feature of FM15 - opposition scores a high % and you score a low % on chances created.

So how can I stop 2&3 happening? I was thinking of upping the tempo in the base tactic. On 4, I'm happy in general with the amount of chances created by the opposition, but they score on a much better % than I do. Maybe that suggests the attacking side of my team is not yet as great as it will be given the age of my squad - I only have 6 out of 26 over 23. Maybe the high blocked shots/low CCC is also because I am moving that ball around too slowly?

I will use a 1-1 draw away at Southampton in s2 as an example. 64% possession. 19 shots. 8 on target, 5 blocked, 1CCC. Southampton 4 shots, 2 on target, 1CCC, no blocked.

And a 5-0 loss to Man U in the Charity Shield. LFC 18 shots, 7 on target, 4 blocked, 1CCC, 58% possession. Man U,14 shots, 8 on target, 2 blocked, 5 CCC all of which scored! Now Man U are very good in my save as they have an amazing (if old) squad and really a couple of seasons before they fall away, but that should not happen on this tactic. Indeed, I beat them 2-1 at home in the league (1st proper match of season). but they out CCC'd me despite 61% possession for me.

[EdJames]

Hi Ed. Just to check, are there any PPMs to avoid?

I try and train them to stay on their feet, play a short passing game, place shots, play one twos, mark tightly.

I avoid them shooting from distance, always playing killer through balls, running with the ball, running down left/right/center, diving in, arguing with officials.

Obvious position specific ones...IF's mustn't hug touchline, WB's mustn't cut inside.

[EdJames]

One area in s2 with LFC on this tactic (and tbh, in s1 as well) that annoys the hell out of me is the dominating of possession and low goals conversion ratio. Now with LFC I have:

Sturridge/Balo as primary F9 and about 30 goals each in s1. Both injured start of s2. Both not great f9s, but can obviously do a job. I currently have Origi/Tielemans getting experience until others return. Both young, but Tielemans will be great as a F9. Origi should be as well as I have the high potential one.

IF's I have Markovic/Suso/Sterling who were all amazing last season.

Midfield I have Romero as CM. Perfect for the role. Hendo on right and Coutinho on left. Again, were great s1. Can as back-up can cover all 3 very well. Stevie G did a job last season, but we all know his legs have gone at present, so not much game time planned for s2. I therefore have Horvath/Kimmich as back-ups. All should fit the tactic ok with good workrate/teamwork.

WB maybe a bit weak but do a job and really hard to find better ones. I certainly haven't found youngsters that are better. An area to work on for the future.

So not scoring enough goals comes from:

1. Free kicks. Rarely actually clear the wall or hit the target. I can count on 2 hands in 60+ games the amount of free kicks actually on target. A real weakness in FM15 by the looks.

2. Blocked shots. Ignoring Balo who has loads in real life anyway, way too many. I would say 50% of all shots are blocked.

3. Players with the ball. No matter who I am playing, the ball gets to the edge of the area and then players just stand around and wait to be tackled. Mostly the ball goes back to me, but attacking momentum lost. With the players I have that should not happen. The players are all moving around as the tactic says they should, but nope the ball carrier runs to the edge of the box and stops. This is happening more in s2 than it was in s1. Maybe because teams are crowding me out by packing the defence.

4. Opposition has 1 or 2 on target out of 5 or 6 shots and scores 100% of those on target. Obviously not all the time, but a fair proportion. With the high work rate of 2 of my CM, that shouldn't happen. But it looks like it is a feature of FM15 - opposition scores a high % and you score a low % on chances created.

So how can I stop 2&3 happening? I was thinking of upping the tempo in the base tactic. On 4, I'm happy in general with the amount of chances created by the opposition, but they score on a much better % than I do. Maybe that suggests the attacking side of my team is not yet as great as it will be given the age of my squad - I only have 6 out of 26 over 23. Maybe the high blocked shots/low CCC is also because I am moving that ball around too slowly?

I will use a 1-1 draw away at Southampton in s2 as an example. 64% possession. 19 shots. 8 on target, 5 blocked, 1CCC. Southampton 4 shots, 2 on target, 1CCC, no blocked.

And a 5-0 loss to Man U in the Charity Shield. LFC 18 shots, 7 on target, 4 blocked, 1CCC, 58% possession. Man U,14 shots, 8 on target, 2 blocked, 5 CCC all of which scored! Now Man U are very good in my save as they have an amazing (if old) squad and really a couple of seasons before they fall away, but that should not happen on this tactic. Indeed, I beat them 2-1 at home in the league (1st proper match of season). but they out CCC'd me despite 61% possession for me.

Henderson is better as the CM than the RCM. Romero never really performed for me other than as backup. Nor did Sterling interestingly.

1. The set piece setup is probably rubbish, it's not an area I focussed on much.

2. Blocked shots are probably a result of the slow possession play enabling them to get men behind the ball. Mental skills are more important than technical in this regard I find.

3. They probably don't have a pass on. Check the analysis to see the average positions and check for neat triangles, try pushing the RPM to Attack or IF's to Attack to gauge effect. The only real explanation is that you have the wrong players in each role. Give the right off the ball movement, work rate and stamina they should keep offering a pass, particularly the RPM.

4. Same here. It's just a frustration of the match engine, not sure how you can defend against it.

It's difficult to say without watching the game, which I suggest you do and check the players are doing what you'd expect in terms of movement and closing down, or reviewing individual player stats.

[EdJames]

Both young, but Tielemans will be great as a F9.

Not in this formation. Never.

I buy him and loan him out for a long term profit, he's not got the stats required to fulfill the role (as I have him play it, not per the stats the game highlights).

[Flohrinho]

Shame it didn't quite work for you, but from what I can see your main problem is the lack of work rate and determination across te front line which is one of the most important parts of recycling possession (and the reason Mourinho sold Mata). Rooney is ideal, but Januzaj, Mata and the like will stop this tactic working. Herrera as you say is a decent bet for RPM but I found Neves, who I signed myself, never quite worked in this formation for some reason despite exceptional stats. He was constantly bettered by Jordan Henderson season upon season a just that for what you will.

Rooney should absolutely be playing upfront in this tactic BTW.

Remember, for the tactic to work, the right players must be used or the framework falls apart. At present the core of your team isn't suitable so you have to either recruit or train around it, or alas, find another tactic.

Yeah I pretty much came to the same realization and basically fell back to my own 4-2-3-1 which works pretty well for almost 3 FMs in a row now, it's basically my go to tactic if something else doesn't work. What I really liked about your tactic though was the great possession ratings and especially the passing success rate. It's also quite great to watch it if the tactic works well some of the play is really great to watch but like you said it probably requires a different set of players to really work perfectly. Especially my midfield in hindsight is probably a bit light weight compared to yours which might explain a bit of the defensive instability as well.

[EdJames]

Yeah I pretty much came to the same realization and basically fell back to my own 4-2-3-1 which works pretty well for almost 3 FMs in a row now, it's basically my go to tactic if something else doesn't work. What I really liked about your tactic though was the great possession ratings and especially the passing success rate. It's also quite great to watch it if the tactic works well some of the play is really great to watch but like you said it probably requires a different set of players to really work perfectly. Especially my midfield in hindsight is probably a bit light weight compared to yours which might explain a bit of the defensive instability as well.

You're not a million miles off and it's only this season I've really pushed out the transfer spending. My midfielder trio were Wilshere, Henderson and Ramsey for more than four seasons with Chamberlain and Sanchez on either wing and Ozil in the F9 position. They utterly dominated every competition, whilst Alaba (my luxury signing!), Koscielny, Balanta and Chambers kept a very tight ship at the back.

High workrate, determination and stamina counts for a lot in this formation.

[buckyohhare]

I don't get what I'm doing wrong,

I downloaded from steam after I hade subscribed and it goes in my skins folder, on the game all it says is "This file could not be imported" I'm using version 15.2.1

Help?

[AllanT]

Im tempted to give this a go with my Fulham save (2nd season) but i want to make sure i have reasonably well suited players for each role. Got promoted to the prem in my 1st season and picked up some gems while i was in the championship. Still need to weed out some more crap as i have a couple of players with low Determination and dont have tons of cash left to invest.

So far i have Emanuel Mammana at LCB, Sebastien Corchia amd Kostas Stafylidis as LFB+RFB, Lucas Romero and Gaston Gil Romero in midfield, Andrija Zivkovic and Dorin Rotariu on the wings. Only Gil Romero and Corchia i bought when i was in the prem, the rest i managed to get while in the championship.

Here is my strongest team (Best first, backup 2nd)

GK Stekelenburg/Kiraly

LB Stafylidis/Pape Soure

LCB Emanuel Mammana/Dan Burn

RCB Nikolay Bodurov/Joe Gomez

RB Seb Corchia/Tim Hoogland

IFL Dorin Rotariu/George Williams

CMAt Emerson Hyndman/Chris David

CMAu Lucas Romero/Francis Coquelin

RPM Gaston G Romero/Josip Radosevic

RW Andrija Zivkovic/Patrick Roberts

F9 Cauley Woodrow/Kostas Mitroglou

2 questions

1 - which do you feel would be the best suited positions for my 2 midfielders? (line up was based on the screenie in OP not the DL'd tactic)

2 - Can you recommend a decent playmaker to fill the 3rd slot? (assuming you dont recommend using Lucas Romero in that role)

[EdJames]

Im tempted to give this a go with my Fulham save (2nd season) but i want to make sure i have reasonably well suited players for each role. Got promoted to the prem in my 1st season and picked up some gems while i was in the championship. Still need to weed out some more crap as i have a couple of players with low Determination and dont have tons of cash left to invest.

So far i have Emanuel Mammana at LCB, Sebastien Corchia amd Kostas Stafylidis as LFB+RFB, Lucas Romero and Gaston Gil Romero in midfield, Andrija Zivkovic and Dorin Rotariu on the wings. Only Gil Romero and Corchia i bought when i was in the prem, the rest i managed to get while in the championship.

Here is my strongest team (Best first, backup 2nd)

GK Stekelenburg/Kiraly

LB Stafylidis/Pape Soure

LCB Emanuel Mammana/Dan Burn

RCB Nikolay Bodurov/Joe Gomez

RB Seb Corchia/Tim Hoogland

IFL Dorin Rotariu/George Williams

CMAt Emerson Hyndman/Chris David

CMAu Lucas Romero/Francis Coquelin

RPM Gaston G Romero/Josip Radosevic

RW Andrija Zivkovic/Patrick Roberts

F9 Cauley Woodrow/Kostas Mitroglou

2 questions

1 - which do you feel would be the best suited positions for my 2 midfielders? (line up was based on the screenie in OP not the DL'd tactic)

2 - Can you recommend a decent playmaker to fill the 3rd slot? (assuming you dont recommend using Lucas Romero in that role)

Opening post tell you what stats are important.

I cooked you dinner...please don't ask me to chew your food for you.

[EdJames]

I don't get what I'm doing wrong,

I downloaded from steam after I hade subscribed and it goes in my skins folder, on the game all it says is "This file could not be imported" I'm using version 15.2.1

Help?

Sorry dude, I'm not tech support - I just make tactics.

[AllanT]

Opening post tell you what stats are important.

I cooked you dinner...please don't ask me to chew your food for you.

If you bothered to read my post, then you would know that i did not ask about player stats.

I asked for your opinion on player positions and your recommendation on a player for low budget.

I made the effort to read your OP so perhaps make the effort to read mine b4 you hit back with smart remarks in future k

also

I didnt ask you to cook for me but thanks for the thought

[EdJames]

If you bothered to read my post, then you would know that i did not ask about player stats.

I asked for your opinion on player positions and your recommendation on a player for low budget.

I made the effort to read your OP so perhaps make the effort to read mine b4 you hit back with smart remarks in future k

also

I didn't ask you to cook for me but thanks for the thought

I've absolutely read your post, but riddle me this...how can I advise who plays is best suited for a position without knowing what's their attributes are? How do I know if Romero or Radosevic are the better defensive midfielder without knowing their specific attributes such as which has the higher work rate or positional sense?

[AllanT]

Google is your friend

Edit:

As stated in my original post, this is only 2nd season, their stats haven't changed much in 12 months and tbh, i'm not going to continue this conversation with you if your more interested in arguing than trying to improve this tactic or even offer advice to people who arent doing so great with it. Im here on this forum in regards to football manager, not school yard manager.

[EdJames]

Google is your friend

Google is my friend for Season 1, untrained, undeveloped stats, yes.

I'd have hoped your players might have aged and had some training since then. Regardless, I've told you the important stats, I reckon you can probably look at your players yourself from there.

[EdJames]

Google is your friend

Edit:

As stated in my original post, this is only 2nd season, their stats haven't changed much in 12 months and tbh, i'm not going to continue this conversation with you if your more interested in arguing than trying to improve this tactic or even offer advice to people who arent doing so great with it. Im here on this forum in regards to football manager, not school yard manager.

No more obligation for you to use the tactic than there is on me to play the game on your behalf.

I've told you the important attributes, check them against the players you're using and when buying players set the filters to include the attributes mentioned.

[fyrefuze]

that calls for a Peter Russell moment - "Somebody's gonna get hurt real bad. SOMEBODY!"

[EdJames]

that calls for a Peter Russell moment - "Somebody's gonna get hurt real bad. SOMEBODY!"

I hope not! (I think you mean Russell Peters https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVcePxjFujs)

[EdJames]

Started a new game with this formation last night and stuck it on holiday mode with "USE THIS TACTIC" and "USE THIS LINEUP" both ticked.

When I PLAY the games I get 90% passing and 65%+ possession, when I holiday the games, I get and average of 72% and 45% respectively.

Something is seriously up with holidaying!!

[clokey1988]

Started a new game with this formation last night and stuck it on holiday mode with "USE THIS TACTIC" and "USE THIS LINEUP" both ticked.

When I PLAY the games I get 90% passing and 65%+ possession, when I holiday the games, I get and average of 72% and 45% respectively.

Something is seriously up with holidaying!!

I'm pretty sure your assistant manager plays the formation of the tactic but changes player roles at least. I almost never holiday games so I haven't tested that theory much. But I sometimes let the assistant control friendlies. I noticed that if you click to view your formation for a match you didn't control, player positions seem to have changed slightly to how the tactic looks normally (i.e. a midfielder will be slightly deeper or more advanced, indicating that the assistant has given them a more defensive or attacking role).

[EdJames]

I'm pretty sure your assistant manager plays the formation of the tactic but changes player roles at least. I almost never holiday games so I haven't tested that theory much. But I sometimes let the assistant control friendlies. I noticed that if you click to view your formation for a match you didn't control, player positions seem to have changed slightly to how the tactic looks normally (i.e. a midfielder will be slightly deeper or more advanced, indicating that the assistant has given them a more defensive or attacking role).

Makes it far more difficult to test it.

When I holidayed with it set as Barca and Messi in the F9, he scored about 65 goals!! Now I'm unsure of that's the tactic being successful or an amazing AM.

[reids]

My players take a CRAZY amount of shots, even with everyone set on "shoot less often". The shots are often ridiculous Hollywood attempts, even when there's a decent option on for a pass or a way to keep the ball. 7 games into this season and my team have taken 224 shots (an average of 32 per game!). This works out at a 6% conversion rate! Anyone else experienced this and have a way to combat it?

[EdJames]

My players take a CRAZY amount of shots, even with everyone set on "shoot less often". The shots are often ridiculous Hollywood attempts, even when there's a decent option on for a pass or a way to keep the ball. 7 games into this season and my team have taken 224 shots (an average of 32 per game!). This works out at a 6% conversion rate! Anyone else experienced this and have a way to combat it?

1. Who is having most of those shots? What is their score for the Decisions stat?

2. Do they have the "shoots from distance" or "shoots with power" PPM - if so, untrain it.

3. Consider training "looks for pass rather than shot PPM"

4. Train everybody but defenders to "place shots"

If you can post the profile of the players guilty if shooting to much I may be able to offer more advice.

Cazorla was a nightmare when I first started out with him, 11 wild long shots a game. With the right stats though you should see no more than 6-7 of your 32 shots be from distance.

[reids]

1. Who is having most of those shots? What is their score for the Decisions stat?

2. Do they have the "shoots from distance" or "shoots with power" PPM - if so, untrain it.

3. Consider training "looks for pass rather than shot PPM"

4. Train everybody but defenders to "place shots"

If you can post the profile of the players guilty if shooting to much I may be able to offer more advice.

Cazorla was a nightmare when I first started out with him, 11 wild long shots a game. With the right stats though you should see no more than 6-7 of your 32 shots be from distance.

This guy is my F9: http://i.imgur.com/ZfZ1K6Y.jpg (PPM: http://i.imgur.com/tAzFB2A.jpg - I am aware he has terrible passing + vision, could this be why he takes a shot as he can't find a pass?) and has had 36 attempts on goal scoring just once. Nobody I looked at in my midfield/attack has the shoots from distance/power PPM oddly!

[reids]

Just tried with a CAM with 17 passing, 18 vision and 14 in decisions as my F9. He attempted 6 shots in the one game (one every 15 minutes), compared to the previous guys one every 10 minutes, might have cracked it!

[EdJames]

This guy is my F9: http://i.imgur.com/ZfZ1K6Y.jpg (PPM: http://i.imgur.com/tAzFB2A.jpg - I am aware he has terrible passing + vision, could this be why he takes a shot as he can't find a pass?) and has had 36 attempts on goal scoring just once. Nobody I looked at in my midfield/attack has the shoots from distance/power PPM oddly!

I think you've summed it up...

He shoots a lot because he doesn't have the vision to pick out teammates (the F9 should be a creator with the bonus ability to finish rather than a striker) and doesn't have brilliant teamwork and he misses because his long shots are dreadful.

He's not a good fit for the formation at all either given his work rate and stamina.

[EdJames]

How is everybody else getting on with it?

[Quazal]

How is everybody else getting on with it?

Ok first full day with the game, and will be trying this out with Man Utd so will see given my lack of ANY game time in the 2015 version this might be interesting , will report back in few days:)

[EdJames]

Ok first full day with the game, and will be trying this out with Man Utd so will see given my lack of ANY game time in the 2015 version this might be interesting , will report back in few days:)

Let me know how you get on.

You might struggle with Utd though as several other posters found due to their lack of work rate, determination and stamina in midfield. RVP should make for a good F9 though and Di Maria will certainly be a good AML/R. I'd be tempted to try Rooney out in the attacking playmaker role too.

[pjburrage]

Using the 15.2.1 tactic with Manchester United, is creating plenty of chances, and just succumbing to some brilliant Goalkeeper performances (or my personal FM bug bear - attacking 1st team regulars scoring their first goal of the season against me when in the second half of the season). As many have found out figuring how to get the best out of Mata is the biggest concern. Has some brilliant games in the Advanced Playmaker position, but then has almost as many bad games in that role. Injuries have hindered me to, Di Maria and Herrera both out at present, that limits my options at Roaming Playmaker and one of the Inside Forwards.

Some of the crossing logic with this tactic/game is bizarre. 99% of the time the players will pass it short, then suddenly a player will randomly decide to chip a cross to no one in particular when in the inside channels, when in the same position again they take the simple short pass.

[EdJames]

Using the 15.2.1 tactic with Manchester United, is creating plenty of chances, and just succumbing to some brilliant Goalkeeper performances (or my personal FM bug bear - attacking 1st team regulars scoring their first goal of the season against me when in the second half of the season). As many have found out figuring how to get the best out of Mata is the biggest concern. Has some brilliant games in the Advanced Playmaker position, but then has almost as many bad games in that role. Injuries have hindered me to, Di Maria and Herrera both out at present, that limits my options at Roaming Playmaker and one of the Inside Forwards.

Some of the crossing logic with this tactic/game is bizarre. 99% of the time the players will pass it short, then suddenly a player will randomly decide to chip a cross to no one in particular when in the inside channels, when in the same position again they take the simple short pass.

The advanced playmaker role is an odd one as it's important to the formation but very rarely produces good average ratings - it's a bit like the striker roles where if they don't score or assist they often get a poor average rating regardless of other contributions. It's one of the positions I'm not quite convinced I've got totally right.

My biggest frustration at the moment is goalkeeper distribution with my keeper continually kicking long when instructed to distribute short to defenders. Equally, when I watch the whole game my passing will be 85-90% accurate, but as soon as I instant result the game it drops often below 80% with the GK and Defenders suddenly unable to make even the simplest of passes.

It's certainly not as effective as I'd like it to be.

[Quazal]

Well the tactic worked very well thanks

If oyu see my 3 screenshots you will see the end results

http://gyazo.com/31a944fe9fb831c44587a324259123da < The End League

http://gyazo.com/46727ca192c0ce0fd1c2dc3825730f82 < the Total Squad

http://gyazo.com/a2f2b306e9b243193f183ce18bd9f383 < The Players in position

The big thing for me was the success of Januazaj, he was my top scorer, but the standard position i would consider myself very fluid, the problem was i started off with a 6 month broken leg to Falcao so i sent him back, given iwasn't going to pay 40+mill for an almost 30year old at end of season, not paying 1/4 mill per week in wages.

Then rooney got injured for 7 months..

So basically my forward line was RVP but when he got injurd i tried januazaj and he scored 2 goals, so from that point one i would play him almost all the time, with maybe RVP filling in.

As you see Mata & DiMaria got me some very nice numbers, and must admit not many games were below 6.7 but DiMaria would often play in midfield three or where El Sheeraway was playing (he is quite injury prone which is a shame given him goals V Playing)

so would swap around my middle 3 depending on fitness / playing / form etc.

But overall must admit this works VERY well, im about to start my 2nd season tonight so see if the form continues and not just a first season wonder lol

Breakdown of results

clean sheets 13 - so 1 in 3 games

Highest wins a few my 5-6 goals but generally i would say average score was 3-1

Lost just 2 league games, both to Tottenham... grrrr... beat all my main comeptitors home and away even smacking City 4-0 at their ground

Annoying factor - Giggs, always crying about not having 2 men on the posts for corners even though i might be 4-0 up ll

but overall you get a big thanks, stting down and taking time to do these tactics so lazy guys like me can play without the pain of it so big :thup:from me

Gaz.

[Ampalaea4]

Hello and thanks for the tactic. I have not tested it yes, but it was a pleasure to just read about it and how it works. I have bought the in-game editor and I want to start a save for fun and make a great team with the editor What would be your best team for this tactic? Which players would you assign in each position? I don't want the ultra stars (cristiano ronaldo, messi and the likes) but I want decent players to play with

[EdJames]

Well the tactic worked very well thanks

If oyu see my 3 screenshots you will see the end results

http://gyazo.com/31a944fe9fb831c44587a324259123da < The End League

http://gyazo.com/46727ca192c0ce0fd1c2dc3825730f82 < the Total Squad

http://gyazo.com/a2f2b306e9b243193f183ce18bd9f383 < The Players in position

The big thing for me was the success of Januazaj, he was my top scorer, but the standard position i would consider myself very fluid, the problem was i started off with a 6 month broken leg to Falcao so i sent him back, given iwasn't going to pay 40+mill for an almost 30year old at end of season, not paying 1/4 mill per week in wages.

Then rooney got injured for 7 months..

So basically my forward line was RVP but when he got injurd i tried januazaj and he scored 2 goals, so from that point one i would play him almost all the time, with maybe RVP filling in.

As you see Mata & DiMaria got me some very nice numbers, and must admit not many games were below 6.7 but DiMaria would often play in midfield three or where El Sheeraway was playing (he is quite injury prone which is a shame given him goals V Playing)

so would swap around my middle 3 depending on fitness / playing / form etc.

But overall must admit this works VERY well, im about to start my 2nd season tonight so see if the form continues and not just a first season wonder lol

Breakdown of results

clean sheets 13 - so 1 in 3 games

Highest wins a few my 5-6 goals but generally i would say average score was 3-1

Lost just 2 league games, both to Tottenham... grrrr... beat all my main comeptitors home and away even smacking City 4-0 at their ground

Annoying factor - Giggs, always crying about not having 2 men on the posts for corners even though i might be 4-0 up ll

but overall you get a big thanks, stting down and taking time to do these tactics so lazy guys like me can play without the pain of it so big :thup:from me

Gaz.

Thanks due, I'm glad it worked so well for you. I can see from your lineup you took the time to understand the roles as you'd distributed the players available perfectly.

Must admit, my set pieces instructions were thrown together so that'd definitely be an area for improvement going forward.

[EdJames]

Hello and thanks for the tactic. I have not tested it yes, but it was a pleasure to just read about it and how it works. I have bought the in-game editor and I want to start a save for fun and make a great team with the editor What would be your best team for this tactic? Which players would you assign in each position? I don't want the ultra stars (cristiano ronaldo, messi and the likes) but I want decent players to play with

Difficult to say, but baed on players I've used, I guess I'd go for something like...

Neuer

Alex Sandro, Koscielny, Balanta, Danilo

Ramsey, Henderson, Strootman

Alexis, Yarmolenko

Cavani

[Ampalaea4]

Difficult to say, but baed on players I've used, I guess I'd go for something like...

Neuer

Alex Sandro, Koscielny, Balanta, Danilo

Ramsey, Henderson, Strootman

Alexis, Yarmolenko

Cavani

Thanks a lot I am gonna make a new save and get these players to play for fun hehe!

[MattP100]

Hi Ed,

I’m enjoying the tactic and having some success in season one with Southampton, I’m looking forward to building a team around the possession based system and developing young players to dominate Europe for years to come…

What I’ve found so far is when we’re good we’re very good, but when we’re not on our game we get ripped apart* – having watched a mauling or two, I wondered if you had any thoughts on how to shut up shop without compromising the principles of the system…?

I’ve dabbled with the idea of switching the IFs to Wingers (s) and dropping the wingbacks into a flat back four, but wondered if you had a go to plan when it comes to holding a lead?

BTW: I’ve tweaked your corner instructions and am scoring consistently from corners and free kicks around the sides of the area

* I beat Man Utd at home 4-1 to go top of the league after 8 games – however the game crashed midway through my next game away to Sunderland. I reloaded and played exactly the same team against Man Utd and got stuffed by a rampant Mata, Falcau and RVP 6-0.

Given my sense of injustice, I reloaded and, using the same players, got beaten 6-5, 4-0, 3-1, 2-1, 1-0, 4-1… In the end I settled for a well earned 1-1.

[EdJames]

Hi Ed,

I’m enjoying the tactic and having some success in season one with Southampton, I’m looking forward to building a team around the possession based system and developing young players to dominate Europe for years to come…

What I’ve found so far is when we’re good we’re very good, but when we’re not on our game we get ripped apart* – having watched a mauling or two, I wondered if you had any thoughts on how to shut up shop without compromising the principles of the system…?

I’ve dabbled with the idea of switching the IFs to Wingers (s) and dropping the wingbacks into a flat back four, but wondered if you had a go to plan when it comes to holding a lead?

BTW: I’ve tweaked your corner instructions and am scoring consistently from corners and free kicks around the sides of the area

* I beat Man Utd at home 4-1 to go top of the league after 8 games – however the game crashed midway through my next game away to Sunderland. I reloaded and played exactly the same team against Man Utd and got stuffed by a rampant Mata, Falcau and RVP 6-0.

Given my sense of injustice, I reloaded and, using the same players, got beaten 6-5, 4-0, 3-1, 2-1, 1-0, 4-1… In the end I settled for a well earned 1-1.

Afraid I've had a few stuffings myself though they've always been games where I've still dominated the possession and shots but been hit by swift and unnaturally precise counter attacks. The better I've trained my team to the tactics strengths and paid close attention to PPM's and player acquisition, the less frequently it's happened . By the end of season 3 I gave up as it had become too easy to dominate and often my pass accuracy was in the 90's with 70%+ possession and 30+ shots per game.

Changing the IF's to wingers kills the tactic, they'll sit too wide and won't support the possession. The key to the positions they're all in is the neat triangular shape the formation rests in. Look at the average positions at the end of the game and you'll see what I mean. Dropping anything flat will reduce space and passing options.

As I think I mentioned in an earlier post, the areas I would focus on most would be improving set plays, finding a Gk distribution that works for you in playing out rather than kicking long and perhaps a balance between the RP and AP. My beta and earlier versions had two AP's, however tests seemed to show a dramatic improvement in retention and accuracy by dropping one back to RP. Perhaps an AP on support or two RP's would yield better results? Certainly I think the CM(D) could be improved too; I really want him to play like an anchor but dropping him back to the DMC position narrows he positions of the two MC's either side and thus reduces the effectiveness of passing.

One other interesting option to try might be having your wingback a man mark the opposition wingers to see if that reduces the crosses into the box. I think the COBRA 361 tactic used a similar approach on it's defensive wingers last year to great success.

Would love to hear if any of that shows improvement for you.

[MattP100]

Afraid I've had a few stuffings myself though they've always been games where I've still dominated the possession and shots but been hit by swift and unnaturally precise counter attacks....

Hi mate,

Thanks for the comprehensive reply.

Like you, I dominate possession and shots even when I lose and I’m sure in a season or two will iron the maulings out.

On an earlier version of the ME, playing a similar system (same formation) my Saints team won just about everything they could for four seasons on the trot – after the ME update I couldn’t be arsed to redevelop the tactic so picked yours as I liked the philosophy (and well written introduction page).

I’ve cracked the Gk distribution and set pieces and I’ll stick with IFs based on your advice. I also played with 2 AP(s)s previously, but find the AP(a) & RPM(s) combination gives more passing options.

In terms of shutting up shop:

I’m considering playing with inverted wingbacks, I know it’ll disrupt to width, but if I tell the Team to play narrower and have an anchor man, this might bolster the midfield. I tried this before (with supporting wingers) and found that while they didn't always overlap, they offered a ball out wide and provided more bodies in the middle of the park - might be a little vulnerable to crosses though given the IFs. Although if we play narrower and drop deeper this might help...

I will tinker a bit with dropping the CM(d) back - maybe an Anchor man (I have Wanyama) and perhaps changing the AP to support. Again, this, along with playing narrower and a deeper defensive line should make things a bit more solid despite blunting the attack a bit.

I have a few more days to perfect it before the close of transfer window update... if only work didn't get in the way.

[MattP100]

Might of cracked it...

... changed the Sweeper Keeper to a Gk. CMd to an Anchorman and switched Wingbacks to Inverted Wingbacks (to make sure teh midfielf two don't play too narrow). The Advanced Playmaker is on support.

Team Instructions changed to play narrower and drop deeper, switched to lower tempo and removed closing down, offside trap and preventing short distribution.

Mentality is counter and team shape is highly structured.

Was worried that there would be no offensive edge, but beat Man City 2-1 away from home, Arsenal 4-1 away and Man Utd 3-0 at Old Trafford (although lost 4-2 away to Chelsea).

The inverted wingers still offer width with the ball when the IFs come inside and mean that middle of the pitch has more bodies, meanwhile the deeper d-line and structured shape means that it is difficult to break down.

26 matches in, I've won 19, drawn 5 and lost 2 (Chelsea and Liverpool away). Might even win the league at this rate...!

[EdJames]

Might of cracked it...

... changed the Sweeper Keeper to a Gk. CMd to an Anchorman and switched Wingbacks to Inverted Wingbacks (to make sure teh midfielf two don't play too narrow). The Advanced Playmaker is on support.

Team Instructions changed to play narrower and drop deeper, switched to lower tempo and removed closing down, offside trap and preventing short distribution.

Mentality is counter and team shape is highly structured.

Was worried that there would be no offensive edge, but beat Man City 2-1 away from home, Arsenal 4-1 away and Man Utd 3-0 at Old Trafford (although lost 4-2 away to Chelsea).

The inverted wingers still offer width with the ball when the IFs come inside and mean that middle of the pitch has more bodies, meanwhile the deeper d-line and structured shape means that it is difficult to break down.

26 matches in, I've won 19, drawn 5 and lost 2 (Chelsea and Liverpool away). Might even win the league at this rate...!

Sounds interesting - is the playing style still the same though?

How are you goals being distributed?

How many passes per game are you players making? With what accuracy? Possession?

Certainly I always thought playing deeper leaves far more room for pacey, on-rushing IF's to get beyond the last man and the original beta tactic was set to the lowest tempo to encourage retention over creation.

The removal of closing down is an interesting one alongside the defensive line in that it'll change the essence of the tactic removing the high press approach designed to win back the ball as soon as it's lost.

Glad the altered version is working for you though!

[MattP100]

Sounds interesting - is the playing style still the same though?

How are you goals being distributed?

How many passes per game are you players making? With what accuracy? Possession?

Certainly I always thought playing deeper leaves far more room for pacey, on-rushing IF's to get beyond the last man and the original beta tactic was set to the lowest tempo to encourage retention over creation.

The removal of closing down is an interesting one alongside the defensive line in that it'll change the essence of the tactic removing the high press approach designed to win back the ball as soon as it's lost.

Glad the altered version is working for you though!

Goals are coming via the same usual suspects, however passes per game and possession drop somewhat. Possession is down about 10%. Accuracy of passes is still high over 80%, but less passes.

The maulings I suffered were awesome to watch, gaps exposed and teams shredding me, so I dropped deeper to ensure that I was harder to breakdown. I removed closing down to maintain the shape. Still not convinced but and interesting experiment and served a purpose in shutting up shop at the back.

Am now tinkering with changing the CM(d) to a DLP(d) for home games where we're superior...