Help me understand this game [In depth, pictures, videos etc]

[^Goose^]

Having always just downloaded plug and play tactics I really wanted to get into understanding and making tactics for myself with FM13. I started a whole bunch of different saves and quickly quit after struggling. I ended up starting a game with Schalke and had moderate success with them and am now in pre-season of season 3. In season one we mainly played a wide 4-2-3-1 and Huntelaar was an absolute goal machine. In season 2 Huntelaar decided never ever play well again to the point where i had to drop him. In pre-season of 3 i've managed to bring in some great players and have decided to change my shape and style of play.

What I'm hoping for this thread is for some help in setting up my team and as the season progresses i'll do my best to update this thread with more questions and suggestions and i'll try and make sure i include screenshots and video highlights to help out.

Anyway, meet my team....

Goalkeeper

Marc-Andre ter Stegen

Not much to say really. Spent my whole budget pre-season of Season 2 and my only dilemma is whether or not to play him as a sweeper keeper.

Rightbacks

Vasilis Torosidis

Bought pre-season of season 1 as i didn't like to defensive stats of Uchida.

Atsuto Uchida

Loaned out for season 1 and understudy to Torosidis season 2 and will continue as such in season 3.

Left Backs

Christian Fuchs

Great going forward, great freekicks, lousy defender.

Denner

Understudy and possibly future replacement for Fuchs.

Centerbacks

Benedikt Howedes

Good solid defender let down by an inability to pass and poor decision making and agility. Will probably be captain now i've let Jermain Jones go.

Kyriakos Papadopoulos

And absolute beast and still only 22. Like Howedes he cant pass and has poor composure, concentration, decision making and agility.

Joel Matip

Not sure what to do with this guy. He's young and has some nice stats but is also lacking in several key areas as well as some rather dodgy PPMs.

Defensive midfielders

John Obi Mikel

Bagged him on a free pre-season season 3 to replace Jermain Jones who i let go due to his insane wage demands.

Roman Neustadter

I like this guy, has some nice stats and is quite versitile. Will play understudy to Mikel.

Creative/attacking midfielders

Lewis Holtby

A bit of a star but someone i've failed to get the best out of. Just wont seem to feed the ball in to the forwards.

Xabi Alonso (!)

Also bagged this pre-season on mega wages.

Wingers/Inside Forwards

Tranquillo Barnetta

Versitile Winger/Inside forward but wont be first choice.

Julian Draxler

First choice AM/L and should be a super star but as with Holtby I cant quite get the best from him.

Joaozinho

Got a free pre-season 2 to provide cover for Draxler on the left.

Pedro

On loan this season to play as AM/R and sometimes as the lone forward with Barnetta filling in.

Strikers

Klaas-Jan Huntelaar

Was an absolute goal machine season 1 with about 35 goals but scored about 16 season 2. One of my main issues with this team is how to get service to him. He's extremely hampered by his lack of pace, teamwork, work rate, creativity etc.

Lukas Podolski

Also a new arrival on loan. Brought in to offer a different way of playing if i fail to get much out of Huntelaar. I wanted to bring in someone more suited to playing the lone stiker role a bit deeper and he was the best i could do with my lack of funds.

The Lineup

I've done the best i can as far as setting up the basic framework of the team. Really not sure what role/duty to assign to Huntelaar and i'm largely guessing that playing a shorter, slower game will suit him and Alonso best.

Also not sure what to do for Closing down, Tackling and Marking and whether or not i should be ticking the boxes to assign playmaker (Holtby or Alonso) and/or target man for Huntelaar.

So this is as far as i've got so far, i'm really keen to hear from various people as to how to setup and what sort of shouts i should be looking use. Any and all comments are appreciated.

Thanks

[Matt_1979]

Despite reading various threads I've really struggled with the 4-3-3 in FM13 so will be interesting to see how this develops.

When I tried it with WB's I found that the DM filtered opposition attacks out wide and they sometime left too much space behind them for the opposition to exploit.

[Cleon]

You might want to have a read of this if you've not already. It talks indepth about this formation and explains how the roles work and link with each other. It's also worth reading every single reply too because there is a wealth of knowledge and information available about the formation you are using and the different ways you can make it play out;

Understanding Your Tactic - The Discussion

It also talks about the shouts and which I used to achieve what I wanted to create.

[^Goose^]

Update

First league game of the season was away to Gladbach who play a flat 4-4-2.

My team lined up as seen in my first post and the shouts i used from the beginning were Retain Possesion, Work Ball into Box, Play through Defence, Play Wider, Get Stuck in. Although we won the game 1-0 and our ratings were good i wasn't at all happy with how we played.

Our passing was relatively poor and we failed to dominate possession despite having an extra man in midfield.

In the heat map you can see that my 3 central midfielders (Holtby, Alonso and Mikel) are extremely close together and Huntelaar is quite isolated. I purposely elected to keep Huntelaar high up the pitch since he lacks the pace and work rate play deeper. What i didn't want was for my CM's (Holtby in particular) to be quite so far away. The player you can see behind Huntelaar is Hoger who i brought on to replace the tiring Holtby.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks

[fdawsoniv]

Cleon et al may have already addressed this issue in the thread she linked, but I haven't read through the whole thing myself. Have a look in there and see if a player of Huntelaar's ilk is discussed.

If Huntelaar is so slow, do you want him back so far? I question whether he can do any damage from so deep. I think a slow player who is otherwise an excellent goal scorer is better used parked in the box, lurking to pounce on any chances that come his way.

Looking at your player roles again, I'm sure I wouldn't have him as a deep lying forward. I also would not combine a DLF with two inside forwards and an advanced playmaker. At least the Adv PM is in the CM slot instead of AMC, but it looks like you are setting up to have guys fight for the same space. Maybe try having him as target man and one of your wingers as an actual winger. The winger's crosses would have TM Huntelaar and your other winger cutting in to make use of.

But then you have to ask whether it is worthwhile chopping up your tactic to suit one player. As good as he is, he's now 30. Not useless but probably at the back end of his prime at best. His results last year suggest he may be starting to decline already. If you want to continue with a short passing, patient build-up, you're better off trying to get value for him now. But before going any farther I recommend you determine what direction you're going to take.

[^Goose^]

Cleon et al may have already addressed this issue in the thread she linked, but I haven't read through the whole thing myself. Have a look in there and see if a player of Huntelaar's ilk is discussed.

If Huntelaar is so slow, do you want him back so far? I question whether he can do any damage from so deep. I think a slow player who is otherwise an excellent goal scorer is better used parked in the box, lurking to pounce on any chances that come his way.

Looking at your player roles again, I'm sure I wouldn't have him as a deep lying forward. I also would not combine a DLF with two inside forwards and an advanced playmaker. At least the Adv PM is in the CM slot instead of AMC, but it looks like you are setting up to have guys fight for the same space. Maybe try having him as target man and one of your wingers as an actual winger. The winger's crosses would have TM Huntelaar and your other winger cutting in to make use of.

But then you have to ask whether it is worthwhile chopping up your tactic to suit one player. As good as he is, he's now 30. Not useless but probably at the back end of his prime at best. His results last year suggest he may be starting to decline already. If you want to continue with a short passing, patient build-up, you're better off trying to get value for him now. But before going any farther I recommend you determine what direction you're going to take.

As a deep lying forward with an attack duty Huntelaar isn't much deeper than when playing as an AF. My main problem is that playing him right up top he'll be isolated from the rest of the team but playing him deep often means he gets left behind in attacks due to his lack of mobility. I did try and bring another player more capable as a deeper lone striker but Schalke dont have too much money and i just couldn't find anyone worth buying apart from Podolski on loan.

I've currently worked my way through to page 5 of Cleons thread, so far i haven't come across anything to really help me with a slow lone striker.

[fdawsoniv]

OK, I have no reason to disbelieve your claim. Looks like the heat map backs it up as well. Hmm, perhaps you need a more direct passing style? Or at least go to mixed. Or up the tempo. I am imagining your players slowly passing the ball around midfield without pushing forward and Huntelaar all alone chatting up the goalkeeper to while away the time.

I'm looking over the player roles again and trying to see what you might be able to change to bridge the gap into attack. I'm just not seeing it, I'm afraid. I think this problem is above my abilities.

Or maybe the problem isn't really in how you've designed the tactic? Let's see . . . brought in new players . . . changed style and shape . . . first league game of the season. You might just need to wait for things to bed in. This would certainly contribute to poor passing. Is your disappointment in player performance based strictly on the statistics or from what you saw in the match? And are those highlights only or did you watch in depth? That might skew your perception.

I think you should carry on for awhile and let the team gel. You did win, after all, and Gladbach are always a pain (at least when I've played in Germany).

[Kim Wong]

Defence on the flanks might be a problem especially your opponents are good on wing play. Draxler and Pedro could be good enough to track back but you should take a more cautious approach if your opponents try to exploit the space behind WBs

[Os]

With the high creative freedom and more roaming you are going to struggle bedding in patterns of play. Being early season you may want to reduce these settings to improve team cohesion and gelling.