New Patch. Fresh Start. My 4-1-2-2-1

[swedishchef_uk]

It's a strange tactic to play with - I've never played with something with such a slow build up. I found I got caught a lot in possession and didn't create a lot. However - I didn't have a lot of time to play last night and so the tactic is far from fluid. And I've had to use my existing squad as I'm mid season. It's interesting to watch and I imagine when it clicks it will be a footballing treat.

[matty2323]

It's a strange tactic to play with - I've never played with something with such a slow build up. I found I got caught a lot in possession and didn't create a lot. However - I didn't have a lot of time to play last night and so the tactic is far from fluid. And I've had to use my existing squad as I'm mid season. It's interesting to watch and I imagine when it clicks it will be a footballing treat.

if you find you're getting caught in possession alot, just tinker with the tempo in the team instructions. maybe increase it until you get more fluid at the tactic. decision making is so important in this tactic as i assume players get caught on the ball because they cant shift it quick enough.

[ataggy]

It's a strange tactic to play with - I've never played with something with such a slow build up. I found I got caught a lot in possession and didn't create a lot. However - I didn't have a lot of time to play last night and so the tactic is far from fluid. And I've had to use my existing squad as I'm mid season. It's interesting to watch and I imagine when it clicks it will be a footballing treat.

Mate, just wait until its fluid, it will get ALOT better. its good with average players but with good players its excellent. just implement it and build your squad. most teams will succumb to its incisive, sharp passing and untrackable movement. True football!

[ataggy]

matty..how much would you recommend to increase tempo by if needing a goal? 2 or 3 clicks? do i need to make sure it says quick (which is more than 3 clicks)??

[matty2323]

matty..how much would you recommend to increase tempo by if needing a goal? 2 or 3 clicks? do i need to make sure it says quick (which is more than 3 clicks)??

good question. i guess it would depend on how the game is panning out. ie - you need a goal and have 70-80% possession, then i would increase it to either the click before quick or the 1st click on quick. If you're needing a goal and the game is very even, you may want to push it all the way, then monitor what happens. You may even want to increase the passing range and through ball rate of your central midfielders and increase the dribbling/forward runs of your wingers. Ultimately though, if the tempo you are playing at has created 10-15 shots on goal with a few CCC's and you just havent taken the opportunities, then it might be worth being patient and hoping you take the next one.

[matty2323]

Just a quick update on my Chelmsford save; second successive promotion. Defensively very solid, though the team suffered a bit from injuries and lack of options in attack. Tactic worked a treat though, with 8 out of my starting 11 have pass succession rates from 87-89% overall for the season. (most averaged between 38-45 games).

[swedishchef_uk]

Hi Matty, can you post a couple of your key players up? Especially interested in the AP's on the wing and central midfield. Would like to see what sort of attributes they have. Hope to give it more of a run out tonight. I'm playing with Sandhausen - promoted to second division in Germany. Have been using a 4-1-2-3 formation, so will need to look for some free transfers (stingy finances here!) in the next window.

[swedishchef_uk]

PS - will take a look at those shortlists too. Thanks.

[matty2323]

Hi Matty, can you post a couple of your key players up? Especially interested in the AP's on the wing and central midfield. Would like to see what sort of attributes they have. Hope to give it more of a run out tonight. I'm playing with Sandhausen - promoted to second division in Germany. Have been using a 4-1-2-3 formation, so will need to look for some free transfers (stingy finances here!) in the next window.

Not sure of the quality of the German lower divisions, but im going to assume its much better then the 5th and 6th tier of English football. However, more then happy to link some of my attacking players. I just used search filters in game and set the key areas to 10 and tried to match 4/6 etc to see what they come up with. These are some of the lads it led to:

DLP (or AP) - http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/matty2323/ArchieLoveOverview_Attributes.png

AP central (or wide) - http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/matty2323/JoshFalkinghamOverview_Attributes.png

AP wide (or central) - http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/matty2323/MauricioLuquezOverview_Attributes.png

ST - http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/matty2323/JamilAdamOverview_Attributes.png

As you can see, nothing special, but they seem to have stats in the right area's that allowed them to thrive in the system. Dont be afraid to rotate players into different positions. my central players sometimes fill holes in the wide AP slots even if they have no idea how to play in those areas. they still seem effective due to the fact its a passing system and they dont have to dribble.

[matty2323]

PS - will take a look at those shortlists too. Thanks.

Those shortlists are more designed for top division teams. The search criteria in key areas where more around 14-16 etc. but they may at least help you understand the type of player required.

Apologies on the response time, i live in Australia so the time difference means most of the time people post questions while im asleep. Ill answer everything as soon as i can. Cheers.

[swedishchef_uk]

No worries - thanks for your time.

[ataggy]

hey just an update..managed to win prem with my spurs team in 2017/18 losing only 3 and conceding 18. brilliant! got to fa cup semi and champs lge quaters (lost to porto after battering them at home and only needing 1 goal in 2nd leg.

also won would cup with italy conceding 3.

[matty2323]

hey just an update..managed to win prem with my spurs team in 2017/18 losing only 3 and conceding 18. brilliant! got to fa cup semi and champs lge quaters (lost to porto after battering them at home and only needing 1 goal in 2nd leg.

also won would cup with italy conceding 3.

congrats ataggy. nice to see the tactic working at international level.

[pilmalm]

matty:

when would you switch from your chelmsford tac to the barcelona tactic?

Im maybe gonna try this with a lower league team? any recommendations in nPower League 2 or 1?

cheers

[matty2323]

matty:

when would you switch from your chelmsford tac to the barcelona tactic?

Im maybe gonna try this with a lower league team? any recommendations in nPower League 2 or 1?

cheers

id probably switch when i think i have the good enough players. Passing through a team isn't easy, and combines all technical attributes with alot of mental attributes. Id probably start looking to switch to it closer to the championship, then take it into the premiership. Any recommendations for lower league teams? depends if you want a challenge or not. Swindon etc start league 2 with a strong side.

[ataggy]

in summer i signed jovetic and piatti to play in a front 3 along with gotze (signed last year). they are causing havoc. 5 games played and 15 scored and 3 conceded, 2 in one game unfortunatley. i also signed a brilliant AP to play central, he is a regen and has 20 for passing and technique, 16 flair and 15 for creativity and decisions. fantastic! i got a feeling we will score more than last season where the average was around 1.8.

[Mazaveli]

Giving this a go in the second season with my Norwich team

[pilmalm]

id probably switch when i think i have the good enough players. Passing through a team isn't easy, and combines all technical attributes with alot of mental attributes. Id probably start looking to switch to it closer to the championship, then take it into the premiership. Any recommendations for lower league teams? depends if you want a challenge or not. Swindon etc start league 2 with a strong side.

Okey then. Im planning on maybe try it out with Swindon, Sheff Wed, or Peterborough?!

One more question though, do you switch the starting stratetgy from away to home? Saw on the SS that in the Barca tactic you use very attacking or attacking as philosophy.

Do you switch these or do you go fore attack even at away games?

cheers, again!

[matty2323]

Okey then. Im planning on maybe try it out with Swindon, Sheff Wed, or Peterborough?!

One more question though, do you switch the starting stratetgy from away to home? Saw on the SS that in the Barca tactic you use very attacking or attacking as philosophy.

Do you switch these or do you go fore attack even at away games?

cheers, again!

If im playing the Barca tactic, ill play it home and away. Same as the Chelmsford one. If its working at home, then it should work away. (i know thats not always the case for FM). But i actually found the tactics to be more successful away from home at times as the opposition didn't play as deep and were more willing to get forward which obviously meant more space for me to exploit.

[matty2323]

Giving this a go in the second season with my Norwich team

Look forward to hearing how you get on.

[matty2323]

in summer i signed jovetic and piatti to play in a front 3 along with gotze (signed last year). they are causing havoc. 5 games played and 15 scored and 3 conceded, 2 in one game unfortunatley. i also signed a brilliant AP to play central, he is a regen and has 20 for passing and technique, 16 flair and 15 for creativity and decisions. fantastic! i got a feeling we will score more than last season where the average was around 1.8.

very nice. lots of flair and creativity in the attacking third for your team then! lets hope they stay injury free!

[ataggy]

very nice. lots of flair and creativity in the attacking third for your team then! lets hope they stay injury free!

lo and behold jovetic goes and breaks his leg...lol

[matty2323]

lo and behold jovetic goes and breaks his leg...lol

haha! my bad! shouldn't have opened my mouth!

[Papaille]

Hi !

I decided to use the second version of the tactic. With my top team Lille OSC in 2023, i just add the offside trap because my defenders are good enough to play with.

Just in 24 league games, I'm 22W, 1D, 1L. Only conceeded 5 goals in league. I have never conceeced more than 1 goal per game.

With this version, I feel that I have more opportunities, I think it's because midfielders have "mixed" passes, it allows them to have more choices in how they build an attack.

Hope it will continue

[matty2323]

Hi !

I decided to use the second version of the tactic. With my top team Lille OSC in 2023, i just add the offside trap because my defenders are good enough to play with.

Just in 24 league games, I'm 22W, 1D, 1L. Only conceeded 5 goals in league. I have never conceeced more than 1 goal per game.

With this version, I feel that I have more opportunities, I think it's because midfielders have "mixed" passes, it allows them to have more choices in how they build an attack.

Hope it will continue

Good solid start to the season. Yes, i agree with creating more chances due to the midfielders having 'mixed' passes. The reason it was so short with Barcelona is that when players have high decision making ability and creativity, they will play a pass no matter its distance. Players with less ability will rarely attempt passes outside of their instructions. The Chelmsford tactic is a bit more free flowing going forward with quicker temp.

Defensively its very solid, how are your goals scored figures? are you beating teams comfortably?

[Papaille]

Many goals are placed shots.

It's hard to define if I beat comfortably teams. I can say main victories are 2-0 or 3-0. But sometimes, i can have some "difficulties" vs low team at home, because of too many shot not on target or goalkeeper in fire. But it's ok for me.

For now, in 24 league games, I scored 63 goals and just conceeded 5.

I think it could be interesting to develop an alternative tactic, with an AMC instead of a DMC when you have a top team. This tactic ( a 4-2-3-1) could be use versus teams playing without DMC. In the same philosophy of keeping the ball, adding a AMC could offer more opportunities. The AMC could be an Advanced playmaker which organize the game, and with good passing, creativity and decision, he could have so many assists. Wingers could be real inside forwards, and the 2 Mc's stay behind, breaking counter-attack and collect the ball in a support role.

[ataggy]

yeah i agree with Papaille..utilising an AMC would perhaps help convert all this possesion into more goals instead of dominating a team only to draw 1-1 when they have only 1 shot on goal themselves which is so annoying!

[matty2323]

Many goals are placed shots.

It's hard to define if I beat comfortably teams. I can say main victories are 2-0 or 3-0. But sometimes, i can have some "difficulties" vs low team at home, because of too many shot not on target or goalkeeper in fire. But it's ok for me.

For now, in 24 league games, I scored 63 goals and just conceeded 5.

I think it could be interesting to develop an alternative tactic, with an AMC instead of a DMC when you have a top team. This tactic ( a 4-2-3-1) could be use versus teams playing without DMC. In the same philosophy of keeping the ball, adding a AMC could offer more opportunities. The AMC could be an Advanced playmaker which organize the game, and with good passing, creativity and decision, he could have so many assists. Wingers could be real inside forwards, and the 2 Mc's stay behind, breaking counter-attack and collect the ball in a support role.

Ill take a look into it. My main concern with playing the AMC is crowding the space in and around the middle of the park. The space behind the striker is normally left open for the wide players or central players to move into and allow the anchor man to patrol behind them. If i play an AMC that space will already be taken, not leaving as much room to move into. Having said that, ill experiment.

[matty2323]

3rd successive promotion as Chelmsford. Now find myself in League 1. Pretty impressed with the run considering my side mainly consists of Blue square players. The most impressive run was in the League Cup. Came up against Championship and Premiership teams in every round, finally getting knocked out in the quarters. Hoping for another promotion this season.

League cup run:

1st round (vs Watford - Championship): http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/matty2323/WatfordvChelmsfordSplitView.png

2nd round (vs Sheff Wednesday - Championship): http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/matty2323/ChelmsfordvSheffWedSplitView.png

3rd round (vs Barnsley - Championship): http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/matty2323/ChelmsfordvBarnsleySplitView.png

4th round (vs West Brom - PL): http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/matty2323/WestBromvChelmsfordSplitView.png

Qtr final (vs Norwich - PL): http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/matty2323/ChelmsfordvNorwichSplitView.png

Some impressive results considering the gap in quality. Was fortunate in a few games, but also unlucky in the QF. injuries to key players left me with 9 players on the park, got over ran in the end. Proves the tactic works with lesser teams against good opposition.

[7. Shevchenko]

Matty, i'm playing with Liverpool and have a midfield triangle of Willian, M'Vila and Lucas.

I'm a bit confused as to which position to put them in. Willian is the obvious attacking flair player, so would he be more suited to the central Advanced Playmaker or Deep Lying Playmaker? His stats are more suited to the Deep Lying role, but i'm not sure he's strong enough there. Lucas isn't ideal for the more attacking role either.

[2vA]

Willian left MC, definitely. You can rotate Lucas and M'Vila as DMC or DLP but the more attacking MC will often times get in advanced positions and fill the hole behind the striker so someone with lots of flair and pace like Willian should be perfect. Or you can put him on the wings, works too.

[7. Shevchenko]

Thanks 2vA, hoping to add Ganso into that mix next. Ganso MRC, Willian MLC. James Rodriguez and Suarez out wide. Doumbia up top, who is struggling a bit.

[dan_orme]

Played 5 games as wednesday aand won won conceding shed loads of goals?!?

[matty2323]

Matty, i'm playing with Liverpool and have a midfield triangle of Willian, M'Vila and Lucas.

I'm a bit confused as to which position to put them in. Willian is the obvious attacking flair player, so would he be more suited to the central Advanced Playmaker or Deep Lying Playmaker? His stats are more suited to the Deep Lying role, but i'm not sure he's strong enough there. Lucas isn't ideal for the more attacking role either.

Im assuming you're talking about the Willian that starts the game at Shaktar? If so, i think his best position in the formation would be AML. however, if you have to play him central, then definitely MCL. Great stats for a wide AP with pace to boot. Will allow him to come inside on his right foot aswell.

[matty2323]

Played 5 games as wednesday aand won won conceding shed loads of goals?!?

Apologies, i dont really understand the question. I'm assuming you're saying you played 5 games as Sheffield Wednesday and only won one while conceding alot? If so, may i suggest the Chelmsford tactic. Its a bit more rigid. Is the team fluid with the tactic? Do you have players capable of playing the positions correctly?

[dan_orme]

yes to al the above, tried the Chelmsford one and got stuffed. Not sure what to do, fluid in the tactic and players in right positions, decent players for the league i.m in too.

Getting very inconsistant results, conceding too many, Fierro has started scoring now though at the otherend

[dan_orme]

Possession is still very high but they score for fun.

I'm right too not have playmaker ticked?

[matty2323]

yes to al the above, tried the Chelmsford one and got stuffed. Not sure what to do, fluid in the tactic and players in right positions, decent players for the league i.m in too.

Getting very inconsistant results, conceding too many, Fierro has started scoring now though at the otherend

Very strange, as conceding goals is very rare in this tactic. maybe try increasing the tempo, turn off offside and maybe drop the defensive line alittle deeper. increase passing ranges to mixed. just tweak the tactic to suit your players. the smallest tweaks can sometimes make the biggest differences.

[rkeeley]

Hi matty,

Decided to have a go with this tactic with my local side chelmsford after trying a few tactics on here (found they conceded too much for my liking though they did score a lot). Im using your chelmsford tactic. As people are saying above the football played is great to watch but i find im struggling to create a lot and score goals. Defence is good but worry if i go more than 1 or more behind as can't see my team scoring 2 goals. Ive only played 9 games so tactic not totally fluid yet. Ive played 9 and have 18 points. Only conceded 7 but only scored 12. Do you think it might improve when totally fluid or is there something else i should be doing. i noticed your chelmsford game is going great.

Any help is always appreciated

Thanks Ross

[Papaille]

Hi !

I'm trying to tweak your second tactic. Even If your tactic seems to be good, my assman told me so many times that

- Too much faults, bad tackle

-One or both fullbacks are too easily out in a face to face

- Problem in finishing or create opportunities

- To try to play a more direct football

I'll trying to find the good tweaks to have the more complete formation, well balanced between possession, opportunities, and very solid in defence.

My aim with your tactic is to make my ass man shutting up =)

For now, 3 goals conceeded for the last 31 official games !

[matty2323]

Hi matty,

Decided to have a go with this tactic with my local side chelmsford after trying a few tactics on here (found they conceded too much for my liking though they did score a lot). Im using your chelmsford tactic. As people are saying above the football played is great to watch but i find im struggling to create a lot and score goals. Defence is good but worry if i go more than 1 or more behind as can't see my team scoring 2 goals. Ive only played 9 games so tactic not totally fluid yet. Ive played 9 and have 18 points. Only conceded 7 but only scored 12. Do you think it might improve when totally fluid or is there something else i should be doing. i noticed your chelmsford game is going great.

Any help is always appreciated

Thanks Ross

Lived in Chelmsford for a few years and that was my reasoning behind playing as them too! One thing i have noticed is due to Chelmsford being predicted 2nd for the first season, teams sat quite deep as i was favorite for most matches. If you wish to enhance the goal scoring opportunities but lose some possession there is a few things you can do. Tinker with the passing distance of your central players; Increase the dribbling, forward runs and crossing of your wide players. Crossing is the key. I like my players not to cross, to turn out and keep the ball. I like possession football and would happily win 1-0 every week. Having said that, the wide AP's do get in very good positions, so if you want them to cross, increase it. Ultimately you may lose the ball abit more often, but you will probably create a few more chances. Play with the tempo in team instuctions aswell, if a team is playing deep, then increase it and look to take complete control of the match. 1 other reason this tactic dosent score as many goals is that it dosent exploit the corner bug. If you wish to grab an extra 20-30 goals per season, then change the corner routine to near post with your best header attacking it.

[matty2323]

another thing i have noticed is that its beneficial to have a left footed MCR and a right footed MCL. They pick the ball up off the wide players and turn inside. Most of the time they have the opportunity to shoot and play the killer ball. Allow them to do this on their natural foot seems to help in the creation of chances.

[rkeeley]

Thanks for the reply matty. Will have a go at implementing some of the ideas you have mentioned.

[pilmalm]

Matty:

finnaly decided to go for a lower league- save with Stevenage. Since they have a very high potential in the team. Since im like you gladly win every game with 1-2 or 3 goals without conceding any i would like to hear from you if i should change anything in the flow of the game? And in what time of the save i should change to the Barca tactic. Stevenage is for now playing in nPower league 1.

cheers and thanks for your time.

[matty2323]

Matty:

finnaly decided to go for a lower league- save with Stevenage. Since they have a very high potential in the team. Since im like you gladly win every game with 1-2 or 3 goals without conceding any i would like to hear from you if i should change anything in the flow of the game? And in what time of the save i should change to the Barca tactic. Stevenage is for now playing in nPower league 1.

cheers and thanks for your time.

Not much changes during the course of a game. if you're creating chances and just not scoring, then try a different striker etc but dont change the formation. If you're struggling to turn possession into chances, you can alter several things within a game. The tempo at which the team plays at, and also the mentality of your players. Increase running with the ball, crossing and through balls of your wider players and advanced midfielders.

The Barca tactic is designed for players with good decision making and technical ability. start to implement when you feel you have the technical squad to start playing like barcalona!

[andrew bowditch]

Has anyone managed to succesfully implement an AMC into this formation yet?

I tried to push the MCL forward as the advanced playmaker ut iot left too much space in behind. If not, what would everyone suggest for getting the MCL to bomb forward more, ive put forward runs through to often, gave him a more attacking mentality, but he doesnt seem to be as advanced as i like (ive tried using different players in this role, sop its not just one players preffered mentality).

[matty2323]

Has anyone managed to succesfully implement an AMC into this formation yet?

I tried to push the MCL forward as the advanced playmaker ut iot left too much space in behind. If not, what would everyone suggest for getting the MCL to bomb forward more, ive put forward runs through to often, gave him a more attacking mentality, but he doesnt seem to be as advanced as i like (ive tried using different players in this role, sop its not just one players preffered mentality).

Ive been tinkering with it but its no-where near as effective as a DM sweeping at the moment. I moved the DM into the AMC spot, mostly as a TREQ. Changed the left sided AP to a BWM on defend and put the DLP on support with no forward runs. i found i look a bit more penetrating up forwards, but as a result i also looked more weaker at the back. teams started managing 4-6 shots per game with 1-2 goals etc. i dont like that, but ill keep tinkering.

The only other thing i can suggest is to teach the PPM 'gets forward often/whenever possible' aswell as maybe gets into the box or late runs etc. those types of things would help.

[andrew bowditch]

I think the issue was with the poacher, using rooney as a complete forward on a more defensive mentality with through balls and crossing often has him holding the ball up and passing it to the onrushing centre mids.

[nickoska]

Hi!

Had a good start to my Shakhtar career with the Chelmsford tactic!

Won the Super Cup against Dynamo Kiev 2-1, and the first league game 2-0.

But I have one question, does anyone have a better corner set-up?

Matty: How many goals came from corners in your Chelmsford tactic?

Thanks!

[matty2323]

Hi!

Had a good start to my Shakhtar career with the Chelmsford tactic!

Won the Super Cup against Dynamo Kiev 2-1, and the first league game 2-0.

But I have one question, does anyone have a better corner set-up?

Matty: How many goals came from corners in your Chelmsford tactic?

Thanks!

very few. if you want to expose the corner bug in the game, just set the corners to near post with your best header there. Left foot taking right sided corners and vice versa. That should get you an extra 20-30 goals a season. I choose not to incorporate it in the tactic. Even though i love scoring goals, having my CB's with 30 goals per season was just unrealistic.