Dave C Posted May 22, 2012 Author Share Posted May 22, 2012 I stand by what I said, certainly in terms of my players as I have just checked my transfer history for the past ten seasons, which I have spent in Conference Premier, League Two and League One.Seven players were sold to teams in the top two divisions in England. Three players were sold to teams in the top two divisions in Scotland. One player was sold to a team in the Northern Irish Premier League (while in Conference Premier). One African player was sold to a second tier team in Spain. I have now read all of the original post. I do think the statement where bigger clubs don't scout down the leagues is rubbish. Why would I have sold twelve players in ten seasons to bigger clubs than me? Let me reverse that question; why do you think nobody else sees this sort of activity (bar incredible rare occurrences), and certainly nobody sees it at AI clubs? The statement in the OP is based on many years of gameplay studied over multiple editions. You are basing your refutation on one isolated, individual, experience. I'm glad you have bucked the trend (and I have to assume you've done something to be more proactive), but it's an exception. The hard data shows that the problem is there, and very real. How have you sold 12 players in 10 seasons to bigger clubs? I've no idea. But I do know it's the exception that proves the rule, because any thorough, long-term study of AI behaviour shows this just does not happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjm Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 The issue isn't about human-managed clubs but AI clubs anyway. As a human, you can be far more proactive if you so desire (e.g. offering players to clubs, setting a suitable asking price, choosing the right reply to rumours etc.). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mavericktangoII Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Great thread, wish all problems that people find with FM were talked through in such a reasoned manner. I just hope someone from SI will eventually put their thoughts into this thread, even if it is just 'we'll look into this' or 'we recognise the problem but calculate it will be FM15 until we can solve it'. At least then we have something to work towards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobby_McDonald Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 The issue isn't about human-managed clubs but AI clubs anyway. As a human, you can be far more proactive if you so desire (e.g. offering players to clubs, setting a suitable asking price, choosing the right reply to rumours etc.). I don't go offering out my best players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
o JaY Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Found a player perfect for this thread. Ebbsfleet have a right-winger called Michael West (in the BSP) and I am currently Gateshead, also in the BSP and just about to start season 2015/16. West has won BSP player of the season 3 times in 4 years (11/12, 12/13 and 14/15) and finished the last season with 22 assists and 13 goals iirc. He consistently has an avg. rating over 7 and has proven his quality at this level. Surely someone in the FL would have taken a risk on him - it's not that Ebbsfleet don't want to sell, he never has anyone interested in him despite being far too good for non-league. Ebbsfleet have finished second twice (last year by one point) and lost in the play-off finals twice, I just wish he would leave the league as he always performs against me! However, I have had FL clubs interested in my players without offering them out (no offers unless I offer them out, though) so they know about non-league players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aderow Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 A regen on my current save is a striker called Michael Shepherd. He started at Man City before he got released at 18. Joined Macclesfield who are now in the BSP and hit 29 goals in his 1st season in senior football just in the league. Come February this season and he has scored 19 already but nobody is interested! Sorry but he had 48 league goals to his name and he is still not even 20 yet, there should be a queue longer than the proverbial country mile for his services. The same thing has happened for me too mate. Probably my favorite player in any FM save I've ever had was a player that did not play for my club. His name was Kevin Canning: http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/6104/kevin1j.png http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/4981/kevin2p.png When I was the manager of the England U21s, I found this kid in the U19 squad. I was looking for an extra striker. I was astonished by how many goals he was scoring at such a young age in League 2. I called him up to the U21s, and he scored on his U21 debut. When I became the manager of the senior side, I called him up again and he scored on his England debut. I kept calling him up, and he kept playing well and kept scoring. Heck, I called him up to the world cup squad and he scored 3 times during the competition including in the semifinal. And all of this took place while he was playing Bury in League 2. Imagine that. After the world cup, Newcastle actually signed him but he sat in the reserves. Then he went off to stoke in the championship and dominated. He got them promoted and was scoring regularly for stoke in the premier league. My hard drive died before I got the chance to sign the lad. It makes me wonder what would have happened to his career if I had not called him up to the U21s. And this was in FM10. Its a bit disheartening that things haven't changed in this regard in the current edition of the game. As for the OP, I agree completely. I think that it comes down to the logic of the AI. I think that improvements will come with time. AI is hard to code. I think the first thing that needs to change is the way the AI scouts and evaluates talent. If an 18 or 19 year old scores almost 30 goals in a season, no matter the league, don't you think that someone somewhere will be interested in him? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
o JaY Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 However, in my save Bromley won the BSS in 2014/15 and the top scorer in the league - he was a youngster (around 18/19) with 24 goals and first game in the BSP, Wigan manager Rio Ferdinand(!) (still in the Premier League) came to watch him and eventually signed for them for £450k so it may be rare but it does happen. He was loaned out to Bristol Rovers in League 2, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave C Posted May 28, 2012 Author Share Posted May 28, 2012 However, in my save Bromley won the BSS in 2014/15 and the top scorer in the league - he was a youngster (around 18/19) with 24 goals and first game in the BSP, Wigan manager Rio Ferdinand(!) (still in the Premier League) came to watch him and eventually signed for them for £450k so it may be rare but it does happen. He was loaned out to Bristol Rovers in League 2, though. As with anything, very rare circumstances can prove an exception to the rule. They in no way remove the issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilonv1 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I've seen this happening in my current FM2012 save too, glad others are noticing it too. Went from Tier 8 to the top with North Greenford, only had one player sold when I was in League 2 due to board intervention on the first offer. I had maybe 4-5 more offers through 10-12 seasons which were well below market value on my players, and mainly once I'd reached League 1. I had players putting in 20 goals and averaging 7.3+ per game and no one was even looking at them. Occasionally someone would come along once a month and I'd see the "WNT" icon pop up. It almost seems like anything under League 1/2 occurs in an alternate universe compared to the higher leagues. Getting back OT, why do so many lower league players have yearly increase clauses and obscenely high appearance fees? That can't be right, surely? It cripples clubs all across the board and has an affect on a club's ability to pay, thus further stagnating the transfer market at the bottom. Are wages and clauses generated on the fly when the game starts for clubs below a certain division (and how is it determined - reputation again)? I think the appearance fees are what are killing these clubs and not necessarily the wages. The wages may even be within the clubs budgets, but once you add on 11-14x the appearance fees 40+ times a season it just becomes unsustainable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesandman Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Nice post Dave C. Bang on the money. Unfortunately, I think the mass numbers of casual gamers vs the small numbers of players that play long games from the lower leagues means in terms of priority, fixes for the issues will never see the light of day. A combination of issues like this (and my age of course....) has seen me buy\play less and less of FM (CM) over the years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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