Neil Train Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 hi, dug out these 2 different views from 2 different threads. which would you say is correct and can you add anything? i'm trying to determine what kind of players i need for a defensive back 4, defensive fullbacks: "You need good positioning to know where in the zone to be at all times. Once they're in the right position, decisions and anticipation will influence what and when they do next." "the defender would anticipate the danger and then position himself accordingly." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Odom Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 I'd say. Anticipation would be the prime attribute for, well anticipating the play. A player with good anticipation will know what will happen next. I can imagine that decisions will be the next attribute to come ion play. Since the defender has to make a choice: Should I press the man in posession? Should I "hold the line"? Do I need to cover another defenders position? As he makes his choice the other attributes (man marking, positioning, ...) come in to play to see how well he does what he's chosen to do under the given circumstances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deserter Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Well, I don't think it is very useful to make the distinction like that. They work in tandem. Great positioning will see you choose your position well in every situation. Great anticipation will let you guess what is going to happen before it actually happens. Poor positioning means that you don't know which position is the best to be in. Sometimes you might get lucky though. Poor anticipation means that everything that happens is a surprise and you'll have hard time reacting in time to the unfolding events. Poor positioning and poor anticipation means that you don't know where to be and don't have clue what's going to happen next. With luck you might make yourself useful. Occasionally. Great positioning and poor anticipation means that you know where to be, but you're not sure where you should go next. If anything surprising happens you'll be in a hurry. Poor positioning and great anticipation means that you see what's going to happen, but you will be at a wrong place to do anything about it. You're again in a hurry to prevent horrible things that you foresaw from happening. Great positioning and great anticipation means that you're in the right place and you see what's going to happen next which allows you to be keep on being in the right place. It's like magic. So there you have it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Train Posted September 30, 2011 Author Share Posted September 30, 2011 thanks, that really helped....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodyboy Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 And concentration comes before anticipation as a player who is always switched on is always mentally ready to read the game (even if his anticipation is poor). If he had poor concentration changes in event, particularly immediate ones, would come as a surprise even if his anticipation was good. Concentration and anticipation are closely linked and make up a player's mental sharpness/quickness of reaction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerhgrrrrrr Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 and if a player anticipates a ball will be passed to an opponent 10 yards to his right then pace will also come into the equation as he has to make up that ground to deal with it. This really captures both the beauty and frustration of the FM attributes & ME engine. Another point, Decisions is supposed to be for when a player has the ball and it relates to what he does with it, but surely decisions would be the factor relevant if a defender gets stranded in a 2 on 1 situation against him. Does he close the ball down (effectively playing offside too), drop off but hold a position between the ball and a particular opponent (A or B), mark opponent A or mark opponent B - that is a "decision" surely? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Odom Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Then again, teamwork would be also important for this defender if he wants to play the offside trap. Since the whole defence needs to cooparate to pull it off. All attributes play their role, so it's difficult to exclude any of them. mark opponent A or mark opponent B - that is a "decision" surely? I believe it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SebastianPersson Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 For me, a defenders main attributes are Anticipation and concentration, later decision and positioning. And it has worked very well with my defences, as i always play with posession i need my defenders to be concentrated so they wont get surprised by quick counters. If you play a more direct play, i guess positioning will become more important. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerhgrrrrrr Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Then again, teamwork would be also important for this defender if he wants to play the offside trap. Since the whole defence needs to cooparate to pull it off.All attributes play their role, so it's difficult to exclude any of them. I believe it is. Indeed, and the Teamwork of the other defenders then comes into play, and the keeper (expecially a Sweeper Keeper). The Net spreads wider and wider...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Odom Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Determination? Anyone? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lam Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 For me it works like this: Opposition player A can pass to player B or C but chooses player C Good Anticipation will allow your own player to correctly determine that player A is going to pass to player C. Good positioning means that he will stand between (for example) the two players and intercept the pass. Bad positioning will mean that he stands not quite between the two players and the pass connects. Bad anticpation means that your player thinks the pass to player B is on. Good positioning will see him take up a good spot between the two players, but this is largely irrelevant as player A has passed to player C. Bad positioning, well, coupled with the pass going the other way, simply means that Player A had another decent option as your player took up a poor position covering player B Thus, your player can take up good positions with bad anticipation, but it's only likely to force a pass somewhere else rather than intercept a pass. This can be applied to other things than just passing. LAM Determination for me does two things > ensures the player reaches their potential (all other things being equal) and ensures they do not give up in a game, even if they are winning. One thing I noticed of late is that teams with high determination often have a record of scoring late in a game. My view on this is that they will keep going, even if they are winning or losing when other teams may have given up or may have 'wound down'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dribbler Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 and if a player anticipates a ball will be passed to an opponent 10 yards to his right then pace will also come into the equation as he has to make up that ground to deal with it. This really captures both the beauty and frustration of the FM attributes & ME engine. Another point, Decisions is supposed to be for when a player has the ball and it relates to what he does with it, but surely decisions would be the factor relevant if a defender gets stranded in a 2 on 1 situation against him. Does he close the ball down (effectively playing offside too), drop off but hold a position between the ball and a particular opponent (A or B), mark opponent A or mark opponent B - that is a "decision" surely? I'd actually look for acceleration rather than pace so long as his pace isn't too low. Having said that I'm not 100% certain I'm correct in suggesting that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 There are bits about anticipation in here http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/238682-Explanation-of-the-Impact-of-Player-Attributes-During-Match-Play-*Updated-for-FM11* if any of you fancy reading it and knowing what it exactly does Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweep17 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I think you make a good point. I also think acceleration is preferable over raw pace as long pace isn't too low which is unlikley as I am sure these 2 attributes are linked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Train Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 I think you make a good point. I also think acceleration is preferable over raw pace as long pace isn't too low which is unlikley as I am sure these 2 attributes are linked. lol. can just imagine a player accelerating fast to a pace of ....... 4! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyD Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 without knowing how match engine works it's just guessing on your part maybe if SI revealed a bit of algorithm on how attributes are processed... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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