Newgen fullbacks still have low crossing and dribbling

Disappointing that this is still an issue as this and the frequent low jumping reach & low strength players have made long term saves almost unplayable the past few FMs, seems like an easy solution is to just minorly increase stats across the board for newgens especially stats that effect their natural position but clearly it must not be, most of my long term saves around 1 in every 12 or so of the 5 star players scouted actually have stats that make the player worth investing in, the rest have such poor stats across the board or specifically bad stats that are important for their position like crossing for fullbacks being the most obvious that their potential is essentially wasted, thanks for the effort you put in with researching and hope this is finally fixed by full release

I almost forgot about this because I just got so used to it, but yeah, this was a problem in FM23 for me. Same especially with Jumping wrt strikers. 4 seasons in one of my old FM23 saves shows a total of 206 newgen forwards with jumping 14 and above... out of a possible 5164. 67 newgen forwards with Strength 14 and above. Apparently this was a lot worse than I knew. I'm guessing this is also still an issue in FM24 if the fullback one hasn't been sorted.

The fact that a bug as fundamental as ‘the game doesn’t create good fullbacks’ has persisted for years is, frankly, pathetic.

Be patient guys, it will be solved in another 10 years or so. Meanwhile you can get some fun changing your avatar's scarf

It has been a thing for how many years exactly? And it's still not fixed, embarassing. So much for the "ultimate fm experience" lmao.

FM24 has been a waste of money so far, nothing they promoted as main feature actually works (AI transfer and squad building still sucks, regen faces still sucks, AI talent building still sucks, regen quality and distribution still sucks) thank god i wised up and didn't preorder like i did last year.

I would understand it if this was an indie game, but the fm series sells over a million (?) copies every year and I can't even find a developers reaction to a complaint about this anywhere in the forums. I would really like to know WHY this is so hard to fix, but at this point I doubt that we will get an answer. Longtime saves sadly don't appear to be the focus for the developers, but maybe people would do more longtime saves if it worked better. 

(I can imagine that it's incredible hard to build a persistent and believable economy that simulates dozens of years into the future, but who else could do it but SI with years of experience in this field and the resources they have by now (and they earned it by hard work!) But often it's things like these that destroy the fun and immersion for me, things that I imagine appear relatively easy fixable).

Disappointing, depressing.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Tjorven

On 28/10/2023 at 20:29, tezcatlipoca665 said:

I almost forgot about this because I just got so used to it, but yeah, this was a problem in FM23 for me. Same especially with Jumping wrt strikers. 4 seasons in one of my old FM23 saves shows a total of 206 newgen forwards with jumping 14 and above... out of a possible 5164. 67 newgen forwards with Strength 14 and above. Apparently this was a lot worse than I knew. I'm guessing this is also still an issue in FM24 if the fullback one hasn't been sorted.

Tested this with the FM24 save I have (9 seasons worth of simming). Some stats out of a possible 7244 newgen strikers:

Newgen strikers with Jumping 14 and over: 647
Newgen strikers with Strength 14 and over: 231 (jfc)

Out of a possible 7752 newgen central defenders, only 546 have Strength 14 and over.

I've also noticed that World Reputation seems like a big issue for newgen players. There's only one player with over 8000 World Reputation, and he's 24 years old and plays for Barcelona. Hilariously, he's a regen fullback with 12 crossing and 9 dribbling. Anyway, I guess this is probably more to do with the young player development issues that are meant to be ironed out at some point for the final release, and the newgens aren't getting enough game time and experience to build reputations early.

Edited October 30, 2023 by tezcatlipoca665

Almost forgot to test the fullbacks for the same thing. These are in the year 2032 btw:

Out of 3506 newgen Natural Rightbacks:

12 Crossing and above: 192
12 Dribbling and above: 59
12 Dribbling and above and 12 Crossing and above: 21

Out of 3292 newgen Natural Leftbacks:

12 Crossing and above: 169
12 Dribbling and above: 53
12 Dribbling and above and 12 Crossing and above: 20

Edited October 30, 2023 by tezcatlipoca665
Formatting

Dont understand what happened because in last version of FM23 this was almost fixed

What I find honestly ridiculous is that developers did not even bother replying to this thread to give us some kind of answer as to why this issue has been there for like 10 years. I mean, people took time out of their life to basically do THEIR job and report on a bug that is so obvious and it does not even get acknowledged. Incredible

1 hour ago, abcdf said:

What I find honestly ridiculous is that developers did not even bother replying to this thread to give us some kind of answer as to why this issue has been there for like 10 years. I mean, people took time out of their life to basically do THEIR job and report on a bug that is so obvious and it does not even get acknowledged. Incredible

To be fair, this was reported on a Saturday and it's only been one work day since then. They haven't been replying in the other bug reports created since then either. 

I'm sure we will get a response, and I hope they will provide some useful information. I would really like a fairly detailed explanation from SI as to why they have never been able to fix this. If this is something that is borderline impossible to solve within the current newgen generation/development mechanics (which I'm starting to believe), then please tell me! I would rather know that then be disappointed each new FM release because of false hope...

Edited October 30, 2023 by LeoFM

32 minuti fa, LeoFM ha scritto:

To be fair, this was reported on a Saturday and it's only been one work day since then. They haven't been replying in the other bug reports created since then either. 

I'm sure we will get a response, and I hope they will provide some useful information. I would really like a fairly detailed explanation from SI as to why they have never been able to fix this. If this is something that is borderline impossible to solve within the current newgen generation/development mechanics (which I'm starting to believe), then please tell me! I would rather now that then be disappointed each new FM release because of false hope...

I refuse to believe that in 2023 where we can basically fly planes into space with AI a software company worth hundreds of millions cannot fix regen fullbacks having low crossing, I just can’t.

This is my 2nd year playing the game and just realized this is a big problem. There is definitely a very low % of newgens with those abilities compare to what is available in the game when you start fresh.  Hope SI would reply and see if it can be fix before the full release.

vor 19 Stunden schrieb Fwiedwice:

This is my 2nd year playing the game and just realized this is a big problem. There is definitely a very low % of newgens with those abilities compare to what is available in the game when you start fresh.  Hope SI would reply and see if it can be fix before the full release.

I really don't think they are going to fix it. The issue is known for years and apparently didn't get any better. Either it's a problem that's deeply rooted in the game mechanics (and they can't solve it) or it doesn't have any priority for them. Either way this is not a "bug" that keeps the game from working so it won't have any priority before full release.

What concerns me is the engine change next year.  It probably will be the focus for them and I will bet money that this will be fixed in the next few years. If I look through the forums there aren't so many people that seem to care about this.

Could someone please tell me that I'm wrong? 

20 hours ago, Fwiedwice said:

This is my 2nd year playing the game and just realized this is a big problem. There is definitely a very low % of newgens with those abilities compare to what is available in the game when you start fresh.  Hope SI would reply and see if it can be fix before the full release.

Its pretty much impossible to fix for the release. Best case is a future patch  weeks or months from now. 

11 minutes ago, Elbkick said:

I really don't think they are going to fix it. The issue is known for years and apparently didn't get any better. Either it's a problem that's deeply rooted in the game mechanics (and they can't solve it) or it doesn't have any priority for them. Either way this is not a "bug" that keeps the game from working so it won't have any priority before full release.

What concerns me is the engine change next year.  It probably will be the focus for them and I will bet money that this will be fixed in the next few years. If I look through the forums there aren't so many people that seem to care about this.

Could someone please tell me that I'm wrong? 

I would argue at the end of 23 they did make changes to player dev which made it very slightly better. But they said as much last year that making such changes is high risk because it can cause so many knock on effects. I doubt they fix the issue fully, but my hope would be they can improve it. 

It's just making sure that a larger percentage of fullbacks have higher potential attributes for Dribbling and Crossing - same with strikers wrt Jumping and Strength, and defenders with Strength.

Unless it's a problem with training? Are the training routines just unable to make a difference to these attributes in these positions? Would it better to train fullbacks/wingbacks as wingers instead, and code the AI to do the same or something? I just don't see how this is so difficult to fix.

4 ore fa, tezcatlipoca665 ha scritto:

It's just making sure that a larger percentage of fullbacks have higher potential attributes for Dribbling and Crossing - same with strikers wrt Jumping and Strength, and defenders with Strength.

Unless it's a problem with training? Are the training routines just unable to make a difference to these attributes in these positions? Would it better to train fullbacks/wingbacks as wingers instead, and code the AI to do the same or something? I just don't see how this is so difficult to fix.

Yeah, it would be interesting to know wether it’s a training/development issue or it’s just that regen “spawn” with super low dribbling and crossing to begin with

I think some transparency from SI for once would be nice.

Already seeing major impact of this 2 seasons in.

Antonio Silva’s development is very heavily weighted towards physical and mental attributes. Many of his technical attributes regressing considerably.

2 hours ago, abcdf said:

Yeah, it would be interesting to know wether it’s a training/development issue or it’s just that regen “spawn” with super low dribbling and crossing to begin with

It's both. Not enough fullbacks are generated with high dribbling/crossing and the AI doesn't prioritize training it either. It probably all comes down to the training units being the way they are, and it would require a major rewrite of the module to fix.

Major work for minor gain, which is why the issue has persisted through many versions. 

On 30/10/2023 at 12:47, tezcatlipoca665 said:

Tested this with the FM24 save I have (9 seasons worth of simming). Some stats out of a possible 7244 newgen strikers:

Newgen strikers with Jumping 14 and over: 647
Newgen strikers with Strength 14 and over: 231 (jfc)

Out of a possible 7752 newgen central defenders, only 546 have Strength 14 and over.

I've also noticed that World Reputation seems like a big issue for newgen players. There's only one player with over 8000 World Reputation, and he's 24 years old and plays for Barcelona. Hilariously, he's a regen fullback with 12 crossing and 9 dribbling. Anyway, I guess this is probably more to do with the young player development issues that are meant to be ironed out at some point for the final release, and the newgens aren't getting enough game time and experience to build reputations early.

This would warrant its own thread for different positions/different attribute breakdowns just so that the QA team can manage the investigations and link back to the sources of the data most effectively. If you haven't already feel free to create one and then QA can investigate further.

The QA team will take a look into your save game and the distribution of attributes you're highlighting. It is an area that will always be subject to ongoing tweaks and revisions, examples of where its missing the mark definitely help and in turn can be fed back to the QA team. 

15 hours ago, Michael Sant said:

This would warrant its own thread for different positions/different attribute breakdowns just so that the QA team can manage the investigations and link back to the sources of the data most effectively. If you haven't already feel free to create one and then QA can investigate further.

I did some more specific tests, and it turns out I was wrong about the strikers when I compare newgens under the age of 25 to real players under 25 years old at the beginning of a new game - the data's pretty comparable in terms of Jumping and Strength between them.

Central Defenders are a bit worrying though, so I'll make a new thread for that.

EDIT: Actually, I'll wait on making a thread until I've seen how the squad rotation and youth player issues have been fixed. There's a chance that those fixes will end up correcting the poor Marking and Heading abilities showing for newgens.

Edited November 3, 2023 by tezcatlipoca665

Any updates here? Is this something that is going to be resolved before FM25?

I have been noticing this problem for maaany editions of FM now but right now the crossing seems to be there for many fullbacks but they still are waaay to low on dribbling and off the ball. 

No Roberto Carlos or Cafu style wingbacks