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  • Spanish Premier Division Data [Discussion]

    Kyle Brown

    By Kyle Brown

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    This thread is to be used for discussion on the Spanish Premier Division.

    We understand that some data is subjective, so this thread should be used for discussing any data that you are concerned about or have an opinion on, that might not be considered as a bug.

    Please be respectful to others opinions and try to keep discussion friendly and productive.

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    onedrama
    En 26/10/2023 a las 17:44, jm259 dijo:

    I know I may be overreacting after his debut goal, but any chance of a Marc Guiu PA increase? Joint top scorer for Spain in the U-17s Euro with Yamal! He has never turned into anything more than a bang average, relegation team striker in the two simulations I have done so far. 

    Right now, his PA is -8, which means 130-160. We believe that it's currently appropriate; however, we'll keep an eye on his development, and if necessary, we'll adjust it in future updates. Thank you very much for the feedback!

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    acceptz
    在 2023/10/24 在 PM3点48分, onedrama说:

    When we receive players from other countries, we only modify the initial CA in very specific cases when they are excessively high or low for the category. In the case you mentioned, the CA is correct, so its review, as well as the review of the PA, will be done in the second half of the season. Thanks for the feedback!

    I really don't understand this. Why your guys can change CA for a player played more than half season, but don't adust his PA?

    I also noticed this on another player Ander Barrenetxea, his CA changed from 141 to 145, but PA keeps at 154. Come on man, look at his performance in this season, his PA should obviously increase to 160+.

    If there are rules that need more time to adust a player's PA, why change the PA of  young players in Real Madrid and Barcelona so soon.

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    Zinegod
    En 28/10/2023 a las 16:09, Varp dijo:

    Damián Jiménez Fraile scout from Rel Madrid, but in official site of Getafe, he is still in the club.
    Organigrama - Compromiso Azulon (fundaciongetafecf.com)
    Organigrama | Getafe CF | Web Oficial
     

    getafe board.jpg

    Well, I don't trust much the official site of Getafe to be honest, as some of the sections of the website are clearly outdated. Spanish football clubs don't expend too much time or resources on their websites, unfortunately.

    In this case, I know for sure that Jimenez left Getafe in 2021 to sign with Real Madrid, but I haven't been able to confirm if he has left Real Madrid to return to Getafe. Until I can confirm this information, he'll remain in Real Madrid.

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    Urke17

    Hi guys, i think that En Nesyri deserves at least 17-18 for his Jumping Reach and 17 for Heading as well. 

    This is his primary weapon, real areal treat. 

    Most of his goals comes after superb headers.

     

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    TheJanitor

    I know this issue is not exclusive to Spanish teams, but regarding random determination - I know it is hard to quantify, especially for younger/lesser known players, but shouldn't players like Kubo, Brais Mendez, Baena already have a fixed number? I don't think they should have 20, but I also think giving them 8 or something is a bit harsh.

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    onedrama
    hace 3 horas, TheJanitor dijo:

    I know this issue is not exclusive to Spanish teams, but regarding random determination - I know it is hard to quantify, especially for younger/lesser known players, but shouldn't players like Kubo, Brais Mendez, Baena already have a fixed number? I don't think they should have 20, but I also think giving them 8 or something is a bit harsh.

    Hello, firstly, thank you for your feedback.

    As you correctly mentioned, determination is a challenging quality to quantify. Nevertheless, you are right in suggesting that leaving it entirely to chance for certain players, particularly those at a certain level, might not be ideal.

    The establishment of specific criteria or minimum values is one of the many aspects under internal discussion. At present, it remains the researcher's prerogative for each team. Thus, for now, it is recommended to provide a personalized assessment for each player (or group of players on the same team) that you believe deserves a review.

    I hope I have clarified your doubts.

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    TheJanitor
    34 minutes ago, onedrama said:

    Hello, firstly, thank you for your feedback.

    As you correctly mentioned, determination is a challenging quality to quantify. Nevertheless, you are right in suggesting that leaving it entirely to chance for certain players, particularly those at a certain level, might not be ideal.

    The establishment of specific criteria or minimum values is one of the many aspects under internal discussion. At present, it remains the researcher's prerogative for each team. Thus, for now, it is recommended to provide a personalized assessment for each player (or group of players on the same team) that you believe deserves a review.

    I hope I have clarified your doubts.

    Thanks for addressing my feedback! :)

    I am not sure I am the right person to give a specific number, but for the following players, I believe somewhere between 10-15 for Determination would be appropriate:

    Takefusa Kubo, Brais Méndez (Real Sociedad)

    Álex Baena (Villarreal)

    Thanks again!

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    Mitza

    Apologies if I may seem biased here but I'm really trying not to.

    Pedri has been underrated in the previous editions of FM and it seems to be the same in this edition. 

    He's got 162 CA and 176 PA.

    In comparison, Camavinga - 165 CA and 180 PA

    Valverde - 168 CA and 175 PA 

    Bellingham - 168 CA and 188 PA

     

    There is nothing to indicate that Pedri is below the three players mentioned above, him being constantly praised as one of the best midfielders in the world with potential to reach Xavi and Iniesta's levels. He won the golden boy award more than two years ago. The football world constantly compares Pedri and Bellingham as the next (if not current) top 5 midfielders in the world, yet he's 12 points below Bellignham's PA and he's fighting to reach Valverde levels in the game.

    It seems to me like there is a Madrid bias in rating these players. Not to mention Modric being the 3rd best midfielder in the game (CA wise) at 37 when he's clearly regressed a lot in the past two years. And also Gaving being way below the 5 players mention even though he's been punching at the same weight, especially this season.

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    Mitza

    I'm not sure if I can frame this as a bug, but Raphinha always starts as transfer listed by AI Barcelona. It's a bit odd since Barcelona are very thight on attackers and he's one of their best players. It's also a very low asking fee of around 34 mil.

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    preben
    On 24/10/2023 at 11:38, preben said:

    Any chance of this gettinga added for the next data update?

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    Lebohang Mokoena
    En 1/11/2023 a las 20:30, Zinegod dijo:

    Well, I don't trust much the official site of Getafe to be honest, as some of the sections of the website are clearly outdated. Spanish football clubs don't expend too much time or resources on their websites, unfortunately.

    In this case, I know for sure that Jimenez left Getafe in 2021 to sign with Real Madrid, but I haven't been able to confirm if he has left Real Madrid to return to Getafe. Until I can confirm this information, he'll remain in Real Madrid.

    According to this, Damian returned to Getafe last December. Also, Carlos Guerrero who joined Real Madrid's scouting system along with Damián in 2021 as reported by various sources, left the team this summer, so I think it's very plausible that Damian doesn't work at Real anymore.

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    onedrama

    onedrama 20 Members+

    Posted (edited)

    En 6/11/2023 a las 19:25, Mitza dijo:

    Apologies if I may seem biased here but I'm really trying not to.

    Pedri has been underrated in the previous editions of FM and it seems to be the same in this edition. 

    He's got 162 CA and 176 PA.

    In comparison, Camavinga - 165 CA and 180 PA

    Valverde - 168 CA and 175 PA 

    Bellingham - 168 CA and 188 PA

     

    There is nothing to indicate that Pedri is below the three players mentioned above, him being constantly praised as one of the best midfielders in the world with potential to reach Xavi and Iniesta's levels. He won the golden boy award more than two years ago. The football world constantly compares Pedri and Bellingham as the next (if not current) top 5 midfielders in the world, yet he's 12 points below Bellignham's PA and he's fighting to reach Valverde levels in the game.

    It seems to me like there is a Madrid bias in rating these players. Not to mention Modric being the 3rd best midfielder in the game (CA wise) at 37 when he's clearly regressed a lot in the past two years. And also Gaving being way below the 5 players mention even though he's been punching at the same weight, especially this season.

    First of all, thank you so much for the feedback. Your comment made me send a few emojis with smirking faces 😏 in the private chat we have with my colleagues from the Research team.

    The truth is, however, that the differences are minimal, and these 3-6 points of difference are mainly because the Madrid players you mention are much more physical than Pedri, and the game weighs physical attributes much higher than technical or mental ones.

    I understand that everyone places a lot of importance on CA and PA, and it really matters, but at levels above 150, the differences lie in the internal weighting of attributes. When we adjust players at those levels, we focus more on ensuring that they are accurately represented rather than if one is two points above another.

    Anyway, I will take your observations into account, and rest assured that (if they avoid injuries) I will be more than happy to increase Pedri and Gavi's CA/PA in future updates.

    Greetings.

    Edited by onedrama
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    onedrama

    onedrama 20 Members+

    Posted (edited)

    En 7/11/2023 a las 17:33, preben dijo:

    Any chance of this gettinga added for the next data update?

    Hi there!

    Thanks a bunch for this info. Your post got shared internally so that each AR takes note of your observations.

    But, to be honest and transparent with you, the "idol" figure is mostly cosmetic. It only has a real impact on the game (and not a massive one) in hypothetical cases where the idol is a manager trying to sign the player in question. So, I won't deny that it's a pretty low priority when considering potential relationships between players/managers.

    If it holds significant importance for you, which I totally respect, it's an element easily tweakable via External Editor or Online Editor.

    Cheers!

    Edited by onedrama
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    Zinegod
    En 8/11/2023 a las 3:32, Lebohang Mokoena dijo:

    According to this, Damian returned to Getafe last December. Also, Carlos Guerrero who joined Real Madrid's scouting system along with Damián in 2021 as reported by various sources, left the team this summer, so I think it's very plausible that Damian doesn't work at Real anymore.

    As I said, I'll try to confirm this info before doing anything, and act accordingly in future updates.

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    nico_france

    nico_france 281 FM Assistant Researchers

    Posted

    Hi guys 

    Don’t know if it has been raised already

    But Endrick release clause in Real Madrid is far too low

    He can leave the club for less than 20M€

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    preben
    On 09/11/2023 at 10:33, onedrama said:

    Hi there!

    Thanks a bunch for this info. Your post got shared internally so that each AR takes note of your observations.

    But, to be honest and transparent with you, the "idol" figure is mostly cosmetic. It only has a real impact on the game (and not a massive one) in hypothetical cases where the idol is a manager trying to sign the player in question. So, I won't deny that it's a pretty low priority when considering potential relationships between players/managers.

    If it holds significant importance for you, which I totally respect, it's an element easily tweakable via External Editor or Online Editor.

    Cheers!

    Thanks for the reply - appreciate it!

    Very much agreed that it is mostly cosmetic. Then again, it is in the game for loads of players and is a cool "feature" if you ask me:) And it is fairly easy data to add, as it doesn't really need any discussion or second opinion whatsoever - it's coming directly from the players themselves.

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    Zinegod
    En 11/11/2023 a las 13:56, nico_france dijo:

    Hi guys 

    Don’t know if it has been raised already

    But Endrick release clause in Real Madrid is far too low

    He can leave the club for less than 20M€

    This is an issue affecting a player of the Brazilian league, we can't do anything about it. If you could raise this issue in the Brazilian Data Issues forum, that would be great.

     

    En 12/11/2023 a las 12:11, Varp dijo:

    Today is news from marca.com, that Real Madrid terminated contract with Head Doctor, Niko Mihic.

    Source

    This happened literally today, so it's impossible for it to appear in the database.

    Please, leave this topic just for data issues, not for news.

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    Gum

    Gum 108 Members+

    Posted (edited)

    Alejandro Balde (67296654):

    • Missing nationality: Mother and grandmother are from the Dominican Republic, which qualifies him to have Dominican Republic second nationality (source 1, third paragraph) (source 2)
    • Missing relationship: In addition to his Dominican second nationality, he is also the cousin of Dominican Republic youth international Lucas Tamarez (2000197371) (source)
    Edited by Gum
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