SI Sports Centre - In-depth Analysis

For discussing this topic please use this thread;

http://www.community.sigames.com/sho...d.php?t=183432

The reason this thread is locked is because it will be used for showing information only. All discussion will be separate and then it’ll be easier to follow what I am talking about. You won’t get lost shifting through all the comments to find the information I am talking about.

I've been promising to do something like this for the last 3 or 4 years but for some reason or another never really got around to doing it. This year was different and I actually found the time to start this. So what is the SI Sports Centre I hear you ask?

Part one of the thread will be about analysing stats that the game has to offer.

What I've done is take over 2 random AI teams in the same league and gave them a tactic that I have created. I will then let the match play out without doing any in game changes or anything. Then I'll post screenshots of all the settings used for both teams. We will then look at the game in-depth and show you what each setting actually does in game. This will also highlight any issues a certain tactic might have be it positional or settings related. We should be able to see what the pro's/cons of using things such as zonal/man marking. How to spot if the d-line is too deep/high. How to identify if a player is making the tackles he should be, or identify why he is missing them. Basically it'll be a very in-depth post about what the tactic settings actually does and show you such things like why my AML tracks back to tackles 30 yards etc.

Then for the second part of this guide I will be doing the same as above but this time with a human vs. AI game. This should then give you an insight into the issues you can because the AI and the issues they might cause you. I'm hoping it will be very in-depth and informative. A lot of users on here have been asking for threads such as this, so hopefully a few will participate and get a really good discussion going. The thread will be created to work alongside other threads such as;

http://www.community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=159310

http://www.community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=181444

http://www.community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=182360

http://www.community.sigames.com/sho...d.php?t=183879

The above threads are a must read in my opinion and offer so much information on different aspects of the game. It’s a lot to read but its well worth it and should assist anyone who may be struggling.

While I will be using the classic tactics, it will still be tactic creator friendly and I'll be advising how to combat the issues we see arise using both systems.

It might also be worth noting that all the information what is about to follow is only my own opinions and how I would do things. You might agree or disagree with my approach as this is just one way of playing the game.

This thread will be done in a sort of Match of the Day style.

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How to Identify Issues

We have many stats available to us in game but how many of us actually know what they mean, or how to adapt a tactic based on them?! Well hopefully here I can explain a little bit about how I interpret them and alter tactics based on this information. A good place to start would be to take a quick look at the match stats, so here goes;

While these stats might give us a quick overview of how our team is playing, it doesn’t show a clear indication of how well. It can also be misleading if you don’t check to see how you are using these stats. By that I mean let’s take the possession as an example. It’s possible you could very well have over 70% of the possession; however the majority of that possession might be in your own half. The same can be said for the rest of the stats. Every now and then we need to take a quick look at how well we are using things like possession, what sort of shots we are doing and things like that.

Let’s take a closer look at the stats from the screenshot I posted above.

Straight away the stats jump out as been very similar and it looked like an even close game. Even though the score line doesn’t reflect that. So was the game really even, or were Manchester United unlucky? To determine this we need to look at every aspect of the match stats to determine how I won the game and why Manchester United lost.

Shots

I had 9 shots to Man Utd’s 14.

I had 5 on target to their 8.

3 off target to their 5.

I had 3 long range to their 8.

And we both had 1 each blocked.

Again it seems like Man Utd had quite a few more shots than I did. So now let’s take a look at the type of shots they had. For this we need to use the analysis page.

The shots page is a good starting point and will give us a better idea of the type of shots I am having and from what areas. This can be a good way of identifying if players are getting into good shooting positions. If you just want to view 1 type of shot then you can use the filters under the control bit at the very top of the page. All you have to do is un tick the check boxes to filter the type of shots you want to look at.

From this page we can also find out if some players are having too many long range shots. Then we can try and correct it. Correcting long shots isn’t always easy as it can be a number of reasons why they shoots from distance. It could be down to them not having players running beyond them in good positions for the pass. Too high creative freedom. The opposition parked the bus in front of goal. Or it could even be a PPM (players preferred move) issue. It might take a while to find the actual cause but at least we can keep a track of the culprits of long shots via this page.

A few things we can try to stop long range shots if we feel a player(s) is having far too many are;

First and foremost check his PPM’s. If you feel he has a PPM which isn’t helping his game and encourages long ranged efforts then try to train him something more useful that will help your side.

We can also check their long shots slider and make sure it isn’t set to try them often. If it’s set to mixed try and put the slider on rarely to see if it improves.

Creative freedom can be a big contributor to why a player is trying too many long ranged shots. If he has a high creative freedom then he is licensed to use his own brain and play more how he wants to rather than how you instructed him to. Try lowering it and see if that helps.

If you still seem to be experiencing it after all the above then it could be a case of lack of options for the player. Try pausing the game at random intervals when attacking and try and take notice of your player’s positions. This should give you a clear idea of how many players you are committing to attacks and you might find the player who is taking long range shots doesn’t have any options around him. So he sees a long shot as the only option.

For people using the tactics creator you could utilise the shouts here to see if that helps. The option you’d want would be the ‘work ball into box’ shout. This should discourage players from shooting from distance.

If you click on the coloured circle on the football pitch to the right, then it plays that clip for that particular shot. This is extremely useful. It will always show you clips but the type of clip you see depends on which part of the stats you are looking at. For example if you're on the passing section then the clips will be passing ones and so on.

Let’s take a look at the stats from the screenshot I posted earlier and determine how the game was won and lost.

Sheff Utd Shots

Now this page shows all my players that played and tells you the amount of shots they had, how many on target and the goals scored. This page also identifies the type of shots a player had. When you click on a player’s name on the pitch to the right this happens;

These are the shot types for Luigi Vanni. Now you can see he forced 2 saves from the keeper and put 1 wide. The areas the shots were taken from seem perfectly fine and would be where you expect your striker to be. So the shots for this player seem alright to me and I don’t see any real issues. Let’s go and look at the rest of my teams shots.

This is for my inside left forward Magaye Gueye. He only had 1 shot but he scored from it. And the position it was scored from is the sort of position you’d want an inside forward to take up.

Deniz Naki is my right inside forward. He only had 2 shots but 1 resulted in a goal. The first thing what struck me here was he scored a goal from the left side, yet he is my right inside forward. So I viewed the clip and it shows he was making a run to the SC position when my DMC picked him out with a pass. He continued the run and ended up on the left and tucked it away. It was a really well worked goal when viewing the clip. It also shows the player wasn’t out of position to start with. He just continued his run from a quick counter attack move.

These shots were for Jonathan Dos Santos who is my more attacking midfielder. Now you’ll notice it says he only had 3 shots yet shows 4 coloured circles. The blue one what shows at the bottom of the screen is a blocked shot but a defensive block not an attacking one. Therefore he blocked a shot and didn’t get his blocked. The blue circle at the top of the screen though is his shot been blocked.

I know all the shots he had were outside of the box but that is what I expect for him. This is where he’s most effective and he’s scored quite a few goals from these areas. As the number of attempts he had isn’t that high then I have no real problem with him. He’s doing exactly what I expect and want from him. If the number of attempted shots were higher and not on target then it could have been an issue and I might have instructed him to play differently.

That’s all the shots I had and I’m happy with the amount of quality there seemed to be. After all I’d rather have quality chances rather than quantity. I seemed to have shots in good areas of the pitch.

Let’s take a look at Man Utd’s shots now.

That was Fletcher’s contribution. I’d gladly allow my keeper to save them all day long. I’m confident he’d save 9/10 of them.

A similar shot to the one above, however this one was on target.

Dzeko had a few chances so I looked at the clips to determine if they were good chances or not. It turns out that for the 2 he missed he was under massive pressure. On them all he had pressure on him. So while he got 2 on target there wasn’t much my defence could have done different. They were all positioned good and didn’t allow Dzeko space or time.

The same as above for Rooney in all honesty. He wasn’t allowed time to turn and was under pressure constant.

Both Carrick’s efforts were free kicks.

Well he’s not going to score from there now is he?

After viewing this clip I realise I was very fortunate and Valencia should have scored. Luckily for me I have a good consistent keeper and he made the save and made it look quite easy. However this shot happened due to my left back not been in position and a quick ball over the top caught him out. This is something I need to keep an eye on in the next few games. If it is a regular occurrence then I need to change his settings and ask him to play slightly deeper. However I won’t panic and it could just be a mistake.

This attempt came from a corner and was expected really. I’m just surprised they didn’t cause more of an aerial threat throughout the game.

As you can see while Man Utd had more shots the quality of them was quite poor (especially after viewing the shot clips). Were as mine were from better positions and of better quality.

Next up the passing section.

Passing and Possession

Next up we take a look at the passing and possession from the same game.

There is no doubt in my mind that many users of the forum put far too much emphasis on the possession stat. While it tells us how much of the ball we’ve had, it doesn’t tell us what we actually did with the possession. You can have as much possession as you want but if it’s all in your own half then you aren’t going to do much are you? It’s quite easy to dominate the possession in a game by just letting the defenders pass the ball around. But playing like this won’t win you many games if you’re not getting forward much.

In the game above I had 51% of the possession which suggest that it was an even affair, so now let’s take a look at what areas I had the possession in and what sort of passing my players did.

Action Zone’s

The battle was definite in the middle of the park which was expected. The rest of the action zones seem even considering I knew Man Utd would be a very attacking outlet and I adjusted from my normal playing style to compensate the extra attacking threat they possess.

Now let’s look a little closer at the passing my players did.

Sheffield United’s individual passing stats

The first thing I notice is how involved my defensive midfielder Sandro is. He seemed to see a lot of the ball and judging from the clips I watched from the shots section, he was involved in the breakup of play and often was the starting point of my attacks. This is exactly what you want from a DMC. Let’s take a look at what areas he was in and making passes from.

The more green dots he has the better for this section. As you’ll see he had a few of his passes intercepted. In fact 10 in total. I’ve just looked at the clips for these interceptions and 8 out of the 10 were attempts to counter attack quickly and play a ball into the forward or wingers. I know not all of them connected but against strong opposition who I was playing on the counter attack against he did extremely well. You’ll see he was playing the ball backwards, sideways, forwards and at angles. His play is very varied and none of the intercepted passes were in defensive situations, they were all high up the pitch and not deep enough to be costly. However it’s something to keep an eye on and if it is becoming an issue and giving the possession away I can alter his passing. At the minute his passing is on mixed as I like him to try all types of passes and not be limited as I feel the defensive midfield role works better when he isn’t limited in what he is able to try. Especially with a quality player like of Sandro’s calibre.

I should also point out that the length of the yellow arrow is also the pass type he tried. The Longer the yellow arrow is, the longer the pass and vice versa. It’s not worth me going into detail about every single players passing here as it’s not necessary and you should have an idea what to look for now already.

Manchester United’s individual passing stats

Let’s take a look here at some who didn’t have the best game for Manchester United from a passing perspective. We look at Antonio Valencia.

He seemed to have a really bad game here and only managed to complete two passes which were attacking. The others completed were either defence back passes or sideway passes. He wasn’t allowed the time to pass and was closed down heavily by my defensive players whenever he received the ball. If this was my player I’d have probably subbed him or changed his settings as he was not been utilised enough for the majority of this game. Things that could have been changed were his passing style for a start. Judging by the passing he did he was given a more direct passing approach. I’d have maybe asked him to play either a shorter or mixed game and kept an eye on it throughout the game to change it further if needed.

If he was set up as a standard winger id have maybe tried asking him to cut inside more as he was ineffective out wide. If this didn’t work you can always sub him and bring someone else on to try and make them more influential. If not then you’re basically playing with 10 men for most parts of the game.

Hopefully the above will give you a basic idea of how we can look at the passing section and determine if someone is playing well or not.

Crossing

The way my tactic is set up the crossing is always low. As my attacking wide players are set up to play as inside forwards, so are encouraged to always drift inwards. So from my point here the crossing attempted by my player’s shouldn’t be that high at all. This part of the analysis can be used for making tweaks in game and is worth always keeping an eye on in possible. Especially if you notice you’re forwards aren’t receiving the ball as you had hoped. It’s also good to find out which areas your players are crossing from.

As you can see from the screenshot above the crosses attempted are minimal and the only ones I attempt are from set pieces. That’s why Jonathan Dos Santos tried so many, but apart from that my team shouldn’t be crossing unless they have a really good opportunity to do so.

Whereas Manchester United were quite different and rely heavily on supplying crosses for their forwards. I actually managed to limit them quite successfully. Here are Man Utd’s stats and in particular Antonio Valencia.

He tried 13 crosses and only completed one. For a right winger who is the main supply for the strikers this simply is not good enough. If the supply is cut off to the strikers they will struggle to score. Man Utd play with a target man striker at all times on my games. So cutting off the supply from the wide men is half of the battle won. If you look at Valencia’s crossing positions you’ll see he was in the right areas but my defenders were all over him not allowing him time and space to get crosses off. Therefore intercepting them and making our own counter attacks.

Andersson was the left winger and he didn’t do any better. Take a look at his positions he got crosses in from.

He was in the correct areas but wasted them. Take a look at these screenshots to see what I mean.

Andersson is the player circled and he is just about to receive the ball once Dzeko wins the header.

That screenshot shows him now he’s received the ball. But look at all the players I have back. The only option Andersson has is to cross early or run into the corner.

As you can see from this screenshot he was forced out wide by my right back, while the other players dropped back to provide cover should he cross the ball. You should also notice that if my right back got the ball back then I would have players placed to hit them on the counter attack.

Then in this screenshot you can see when he finally put the cross in it was too late as the strikers had hung back to long waiting for him to put the cross in. Not only that but my right back pressed him too much and stuck with him and forced the delayed cross. My keeper just collects the ball from this cross.

This happened all the time during the game from both sides. Again if it was my team doing this I would have looked to change it and try playing through the middle. As Manchester United's wide play just wasn’t working on this day. If they had changed and focused play through the middle I would have had to adapt also, but they didn’t.

Headers

These stats show both offensive and defensive roles of a player. Attacking players who miss a lot of headers tends to let you know you need to pass the ball around more and attempt less crosses. To get a better idea of the type of headers a player keeps losing. Then you can click on the red circles to view them. Then you can make a better call, as to what to change.

Defensive issues with headers are trickier to sort out though. And there might not be a clear solution. If this happens then like above you need to assess what sort of headers the defensive players are losing out on. If it’s a case of your players simply not good enough in the air (this can be a common issue) then you can change things like less tight marking, deeper defensive line or ask one defender to play slightly deeper. By allowing a player to play slightly deeper by changing his mentality, you provide cover should the opposition win the header or do any kind of flicks on. This limits the damage, it’s not an ideal solution but there isn’t much you can do against someone who is good in the air and your players aren’t. You can go out and buy a defensive player who is good in the air but sooner or later he will also come up against someone better than him.

Tackles

This page is very important for defenders as it allows you to view the tackles a player does and also shows you the areas of the pitch. So you’ll be able to see if a defender is positioned where you’d want him to be, or show you if he’s been dragged out of position often. It can be useful for all players but I find it best used to keep a track of the defenders. When viewing a player and checking out his tackles he’s done in a game then you want to see more green circles than red ones. If a defensive player as too many red circles then you have massive defensive issues. I can’t stress how vital this page is for me. I can pin point players who are going for tackles and missing them. If that happens I can either ask them to tackle more ‘easy’ or ask them to close down less.

Let’s take a look at my stats;

As you can see my defensive players win most if not all of tackles they enter. You’ll also notice that Jonathan Dos Santos wins a lot even though he only has a tackling stat of 8 and is my more attack minded MC. He is instructed to do easy tackling meaning he only enters tackles he knows he can win.

I only made 2 tackles in side Manchester United’s half. This is because when I lost possession I dropped off and allowed them to attack us so I could make use of quick counter attacks. My players only attempted tackles once they were inside my half. This helps keep the squads shape and stops players been out of position or allowing them to get turned easily.

You’ll notice from the Man Utd’s stats that they were bringing their attacking players further back than me to help in defensive duties. You might also want to look at the interceptions page while viewing these. As it will show if players are missing or making interceptions in vital places.

Runs Past Opponent

Runs past opponent can tell how you are attacking and getting past players. If you view the opposition’s page it will also tell you the areas you need to keep an eye on. Take a look at my stats;

Not very impressive are they? That’s because I’m not set up for players running with the ball and for this game had to be restrained, as player for player Manchester United were slightly better than my squad. Especially in the full back positions.

Now if we look at Manchester United’s stats;

Now you’ll see that the wide players kept having a lot of successful runs past my players. We’ll the reason for this was pace. My left back was only 16 at the time as well, so wasn’t experienced and I expected him to get beat quite a bit. However I compensated this by providing cover using my defenders and defensive midfielder. As man for man my full backs would get skinned all day long, I had to make sure I numbered up on the Man Utd wingers. And if we look further back up the post we’ll see I did just that for most of the game and made their wingers ineffective for 90 minutes.

You have to do things like that if you are faced with wingers with pace and acceleration. If I didn’t provide cover from other areas they would have tore me apart all game long.

Part Two

Now we've done the bit about how to analyze stats we now take a look at how to see them in games and what we can do to fix them.

Some of this info might be mixed up (in terms of the match clock) that's because I am using the above method to look at what went on during the game. And it might be too hard to sort through the things in the correct times. However the end results and urpose of this post will still remain the same.

I decided to take control of Arsenal and West Ham for the next part of this project;

Tactics

The reason why I wanted to take control of both teams in the first part of this article is so we know what the exact settings used by both teams are. This makes it easier to discuss things and we’ll be able to see the effect that some settings have on players both in defensive and attacking roles. Because in the second part when it’s Human vs. AI then we’ll only be able to guess what settings the AI used.

I was in two minds what sort of teams to choose to illustrate things. For a long period of time I was going to go down the two team’s similar route but I later changed my mind. We could probably learn more by watching two completely different sides in action. So I choose Arsenal vs. West Ham for the first game. The result the tactic produces isn’t the focal point so the score line is irrelevant; it’s more about how the end result is achieved.

The tactic will be very basic for both teams as I don’t want to over complicate things to begin with. Plus the second part of this project will see a more complex tactic used. If you try recreating these tactics on your own games then chances are they won’t work due to the fact I’ve created them for research purposes only and not tested them. I’ll be using a tactic based on the feedback when you first start at a club, I’ll use the shape they recommend.

West Ham

Here is the shape and the team settings;

Keeper

DR/DL

DC’s

Both DC’s are same except the right sided DC is 2 mentality notches further back.

DMC

MLC/MRC

MC

Strikers

As you can see the settings are basic and nothing too flash. But the tactic should hold its own and is only for one game.

Arsenal

Keeper

DR/DL

DC’s

Both set the same except one DC is 2 clicks less than on this screenshot.

Defensive MC

MC

ML/MR

Strikers

Those are the tactics that I will be using. If I was playing the game properly then I wouldn’t have used these and spent a bit more time customising the settings to fit the players more. But just for research purposes the more flaws the tactics have the better the discussion.

The Match

Before I start I should point out I didn’t make any changes during the game and I didn’t use any opposition instructions. I wanted the game to play out without any changes to fully understand what goes on in the match.

Take a look at this screenshot of West Ham’s defensive line;

As its set to normal this is the area they should be taking up. If it was set to be deeper, then they would be closer to the red line. If it was more pushed up then they would be more near the purple line. Also notice West Hams player positions. I have just been on the attack and committed four players forward. You’ll see that I only have one player in the actual middle (He’s under the purple line) of the pitch due to West Ham just been on the attack. So the gap is quite large and Arsenal could take advantage of this. If this kind of thing keeps happening you have a few things that you could try to sort it out.

One of them would be to push the defensive line further up so the defence are further forward. That would close the gap and push the Arsenal forwards back towards the half way line, rather than them been in West Hams half. If we pushed the defensive line towards the purple line then you can see by how much that gap would close up.

Another option would be to instruct Scott parker (the number 8) to not run with the ball or run from deep. This would keep him further back. Currently he is set to run with the ball and run from deep sometimes. On this occasion is he forward because he made the run trying to support the attacking play. The reason I singled Scott parker out if the fact that he is the less attacking of the three midfielders so make more sense at this time to concentrate on him.

They are the only changes that I would be looking to make as I’ve not seen him play long enough yet. The game is only into the third minute. At this point we should also rule out closing down as to why Scott Parker is forward as he isn’t closing anyone down if you view the screenshot. After watching the clip he is trying to get back into position after we lost possession.

Have a quick look at the screenshot below then go back up the post and view the settings for the left and right back.

Can you see why he passes to Fabregas rather than go where the arrow is pointing? He’s instructed to run with the ball often so why isn’t he? It’s because he is instructed to cross from deep rather that the by-line. Instead he passes the ball to Fabregas (no4) who then passes it to Denilson (no15) who then plays the ball to Sagna (no3). So from the position above we end up to the one below in the screenshot;

Basically we’ve gone from one side of the pitch to the other to be in the same position as where the move started. Arsenal's Sagna doesn’t put the cross into the box as he gets tackled and it goes out for a throw-in. So that’s two good positions Arsenal has had to advance further up field and get the cross in. But because they are instructed to only cross from deep they aren’t taking full advantage of the space they could run into. A simple change here to both Arsenal full backs could be it all it needs. If they changed from deep to by-line for the cross from option then they should try and beat the defender and attempt a cross. Rather than playing the ball across the pitch from one side to the other.

Cross from deep is more for players who might lack the pace and not have the right stats to beat their marker. If we think real football terms then David Beckham is the perfect example of someone who crosses from deep. He doesn’t have the pace or acceleration to go past people to get into the by-line area. Therefore he utilises the rest of his technical ability by crossing from deep instead.

There is more to it that needing just pace and acceleration though as the player also needs the ability to run with the ball. So dribbling plus technique are needed. Agility will also help him ride any challenges that might come his way. I’ve probably made this sound a lot more complicated than it actually is but thought it was worth touching upon. If I was the managing Arsenal properly then I would have changed them to cross from by-line due to them getting into several good positions similar to the above already even though it’s still early in the game.

I’ll show you the reverse of the above and show you the space a player can make by going to the by-line.

Diamanti is about to receive the ball from a quick throw in. He will then beat his marker and run where the arrow is pointing. If you view his tactical settings at the beginning of the topic you’ll see he is instructed to cross from by-line. He is the more attack minded striker in the settings.

The above screenshot is a lot more interesting and gives a better picture to how the Arsenal defence works. As you can see Diamanti is running with the ball to the corner but Arsenal’s centre back is running across to cover and help the fullback out. The blue arrow shows the other central defender and the position he is about to pick up. As the West Ham player is about to enter his zone so he’ll pick him up and man mark him. As soon as a player gets near the box the man marking centre backs will look to follow and mark them.

The yellow arrow shows what position the left back is about to take. This will cover the space the central defender as left and will also block the West Ham player who is trying to run in between. The brown arrow shows that the midfielder will take up the position the left back leaves. The purple arrow shows Fabregas going to cover the gap left by the central defender.

So all West Ham’s forward players will all be marked meaning if Diamanti does get the cross in it will be hard to pick out one of his own players.

He does get the cross in by Arsenal’s keeper collects it. Look how tight the centre back is marking the forward compared to the others in the box. This is what tight marking does, it instructs the player to stick as close as possible to them.

The below screenshot highlights another problem people might face, flick ons;

Arsenal’s more advanced central defender is circled man marking West Ham’s striker (that’s why he is further forward as he is Cole’s marker). West Ham’s right back crossed the ball to Cole and Arsenal’s centre back stepped up to cover and mark his man. However he failed to win the header and Carlton Cole made the flick on. In the screenshot you can see Diamanti is trying to run onto the ball. But Arsenal’s deeper centre back had no one to mark so was still at the back providing cover should the above scenario happen. This is why I feel it’s important that you play with one defender further back the other at all times.

In the screenshot below you’ll see the position the defender took up;

The black circle is the defender making the interception and the red circle is the other defender tracking his man back and sticking with him. That’d due to his man marking and tight marking. Only when the other defender makes the interception does he leave his man and revert back to his position.

If we take a look at the West Ham outer midfielder’s settings we’ll see they have through balls often. This is what they look like in a game;

Mark Noble receives the ball from a cross from the right back and just plays a simple pass into the feet of the striker.

The striker was off side when he received the ball so was unlucky in the end. The defender who was man marking him got left behind due to the difference in acceleration. Diamanti got the half a yard start due to this. Arsenal was quite fortunate in the end.

The next screenshot shows us balls over the top from midfield;

Diamanti is running onto a ball over the top from midfield. This caught his marker off guard as he was on the back foot after having to turn around and track back. Luckily for him the slightly deeper defender has read the ball and is making his way across to cover.

He manages to get across and clear the ball away before Diamanti got on the end of it. This is another example of how defenders help each other out. Had they both been on the same mentalities then he probably wouldn’t have made the interception. Over the top balls can catch defenders out a lot as they then have to turn around and track back. It’s worth keeping an eye on in game to make sure you aren’t getting caught out by them often.

For this screenshot it’s important to know that this wouldn’t have happened had the Arsenal full back not had mixed passing.

How do I know it wouldn’t have happened if it wasn’t on mixed passing? Well that’s because if it was a direct passing he was instructed to do he would have passed to a midfielder not a striker. Direct passing is all about going through the proper channels, i.e. defence to midfield to striker. If he was instructed to play short passing he would have passed to Walcott (no14) on the right or even passed it sideways or backwards. If you want players to do these kinds of balls then it’s important that you don’t limit his passing to just one type. By allowing him to play mixed you give him the decision on what pass to make in certain situations.

The Arsenal forward then wins the balls and does a flick on, which Van Persie is running onto;

But the West Ham defensive midfielder is following him and the central defender one is coming across to cover. However this then results in a free kick after the defensive midfielder fouled Van Persie.

Who then puts the free kick in the back of the net, 1-0 the Arsenal.

I’m not sure anything could have possibly prevented this from happening. It was a silly free kick to give away but these things happen. The player positioning before the free kick was spot on in my opinion. I guess easy tackling for the defensive midfielder is something to consider if this keeps happening throughout the game though.

In the next screenshot we see a direct over the top ball from West Ham;

The West Ham forward is trying to get onto the end of it but it was over hit slightly and runs away from him. But from the above screenshot you can see the movement the striker makes. His marker runs with him and manages to stay with him the whole time and adds pressure. The centre backs are doing a good job but the thing that doesn’t look right if how wide the gap are between the Arsenal players.

Arsenal is playing with normal width, but it’s the last notch of normal they are using. The space between the centre backs and the full backs is quite large. Against good opposition this could be a massive problem. West Ham has tried the ball over the top on a few occasions now. So what Arsenal could do is reduce the width slider until they seem more compact and don’t have a massive gap between the central defenders and the full backs. I’d reduce it by three clicks to begin with. Or use the shouts if using the tactics creator. The shout you’d use is the play narrower one. This should close the gap, but if it doesn’t close it as much as you’d like then you’ll need to do it manually in the tactics section.

In this screenshot we see Diamanti receive the ball;

He runs with the ball and because the defender follows him due to tight marking and man marking he ends up running into two other players who have come back from midfield to help Arsenal out with the defending.

As you can see in this screenshot he’s now run into too many of Arsenal’s players. He dwelled o the ball far too long. There are a number of reasons why this might have happened. If we check his settings again further up the tread we’ll see he had high creative freedom and run with the ball instructions. I’ve viewed a few clips from the game and he seems to be doing this on a number of occasions. It looks to me as this is a creative freedom problem. Because his creative freedom is set so high when he receives the ball he is attempting to do his own thing and getting it very wrong. He has players in support or other options to pass to. But instead he’s doing far too much with the ball and the end product is poor.

By reducing his creative freedom he should stick to the instructions I’ve gave him. If you are using the tactics creator then, the shout you want is work ball into box. This should decrease the amount of long shots the team choose. By using this shout they will be more inclined to shoot when in the box rather than when outside it.

This is what happens when a striker holds up the ball;

He holds it up like he is instructed to. This allows the midfielders and other striker time to make good runs into the box.

This has forced the Arsenal defenders and midfield to come back and pick up someone to mark. However Arsenal’s defensive midfielder couldn’t pick up two runners he could one pick one. So he follows the number eight shirt. This means Mark Noble who is in the black circle is allowed time and space on the edge of the box. Fabregas Arsenal’s number four is still too far advanced to get to Mark Noble in time.

This allows him to shoot and he scores making it 1-1. There are a number of reasons why this happened but mainly it was a man marking error. Denilson the defensive midfielder did pick someone up but unfortunately it was the wrong midfielder he tracked and marked. Had he been on zonal marking he might have picked Mark Noble up but he could have still followed the player he did. There is no 100% sure ways to know for sure which one he would have.

Another thing that would have probably had a bigger impact would be to get Fabregas to close down more. He might have picked Mark Noble up a lot earlier if he was set to close down more. Also changing his attacking mentality by a few notches could also make sure he was in a better position to begin with. If he was less advanced up the pitch he should technically be in a better position to make the interception. Or giving him man marking should also make him stick to a player and tack back.

There are a few things above we can try to limit these situations from happening. But I would probably start with Fabregas’ closing down first. Then during the match if you don’t see any improvements you can then try the other things I mentioned.

It's been a while but I'm back around for a while now so can update this thread more. I've got a few bits to put up today but there is a lot to discuss so it'll be spread throughout the day for now. So here goes with the first bit;

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Evolving

I’ve created what I believe to be a very good tactic in principle (I’ll do a thread on that over the next day or so) that I have used with several teams of different qualities. The success’ I’ve had have been really positive but the tactic still needs a bit of work to get it perfect. All the signs are there that the base I currently use can be effective but I need to iron out the little problems to make it even better. The reasons for doing this are because something feels missing and I can’t quite put my finger on what. Well actually that’s a lie because I know I’ve not spent any real time developing the tactics, I’ve just been playing game after game without paying attention to the minor details. Currently I’m top of the league after 7 games and for a lot of people that would be enough. But if I don’t act now and put the little things right sooner or later they’ll be exposed and could cost me valuable points. I believe this type of problem is why I see so many posts saying they won 5 games in a row and now can’t win. That’s not all the problem but there is no doubt in my mind that can play a big part.

Let’s take a look back at some of the games I’ve played to see what issue I can find and how to solve them. A good place to start would be a game I played against Liverpool at home. Although I won 3-1 I was outplayed and was lucky to get a result at all. The other reason for choosing Liverpool was because they beat me 2-3 in the Carling Cup. So it’s apparent I have problems against strong opposition. So far in the league I’ve only played teams I expect to beat and have just relied on the player’s getting me through games. So here goes;

First I best show you the actual shape I am using, if not some of the positioning during the game will confuse you.

On this screenshot the purple line shows the space that I should really have a player in. I have a player near but it also looks like I’m playing with 3 strikers up front.

I should ideally have staggered lines of attacks meaning I have at least 1 of the attackers drop a lot deeper to give me another option. The red circle is my lone striker and the blue one is the attacking midfielder. Now these could be positioned like this because it’s a throw in. But if that is the case then I need to alter the settings for throw ins as I am vulnerable to counter attacks.

Something else I noticed is on corners I have far too many people committed forward. If I don’t win the ball I have like 2 players back that is all. This again opens me up and makes me vulnerable to quick counter attacks or cleared balls by the defenders.

The goalkeeper is giving the ball away a lot but I have to make massive allowances for that. You see, I sold my back up keepers and it’s sods law Almunia would get injured. So I’ve had to use a 16 year old for 4 weeks, which I don’t mind really as it gives him games and experience to help him develop. But I just can’t expect a lot from him yet.

On the next screenshot it shows an issue with my midfielder and defensive midfielder both closing down the same player.

I know what is causing this already, I have my team close down very aggressive and because they play in similar space they both try picking up the same man. So the change I need to do here is probably an easy one, I’ll either need to drop the closing down or give Fabregas a higher mentality. Maybe even do both of them and it should solve this particular issue.

The next issue is a lot more complex or so you would assume and is possibly a flaw in my own formation due to how I positioned the players.

Look at all the space where the blue line is, I have nobody there at all. The reason there is so much space is I asked the left midfielder to hug touchline all the time. So he doesn’t come inside looking for the ball. It looks like I’ll need to rethink that as it’s highly unlikely that my forward (red circle) could do anything from his position if he was to receive the ball. The striker is allowed to move into the channels, so I could maybe remove that and make him more central. If I did that and asked the left midfielder not to hug the touchline then it would bring them into play a bit more and make them useful when I get the ball in positions such as this. I’m guessing that is what most of you would be thinking? Well look at the next moves in the next screenshot;

*Just for reference in the previous screenshot Fabregas (4) passed it to Arshavin (10) and they played a one two.

Now look what happens when Van Persie receives the ball. He’ll then take the defender away from Walcott on the right and he will have plenty of space to run into.

Now look at the options I have available if Walcott could produce a good cross here. Look at the ground the left midfielder as covered here, he’s busting a gut to get into the box late. Sadly Walcott can’t cross and the move comes to nothing. But it shows this type of move will be effective if I played someone who could actually cross on the right. I believe I’ve already fixed this issue by accident. What happened was my left midfielder got injured so I decided to put Van Persie as the attacking midfielder right and use Walcott as the left midfielder. This meant that the delivery from Van Persie was a lot better, but by allowing Walcott to play as the left midfielder it utilises his pace and he can cover a lot of ground quickly. A lot of times now he finds himself in space all alone and due to his sheer pace and acceleration he causes a lot of problems. It’s not unusual to see a defender try and come across to cover, but when this happens I normally find it creates space for my striker to use. So be careful when spotting possible issues, be sure to watch the move in full several times. As it could turn out like this one did.

Even though I’ve only watched 4 minutes of game time I’ve seen a lot of good points and not too many bad points yet. But I’m sure that will change over the course of the match. One thing I have noticed early on though is my fullbacks are pushed quite far forward which I expected. But my central defenders are a bit deep which makes the gap between defensive and midfield a bit big. So to reduce that space I need to alter the defensive line and push it up more.

See what I mean on the screenshot? If I push higher up I allow Liverpool less space to play in and have a good chance of winning the ball higher up the field. This would benefit how I’m playing and is needed if I want to dominate. But playing this way comes at a risk. If Torres gets the ball or ball is played over the top then my defenders would be on the back foot. But you can never eliminate all risks from a tactic and it’s something I am happy to chance if it allows me to play how I feel we should be.

My defensive midfielder is closing down a bit high and it is causing him to get pulled out of position. I’ve noticed this two times now so I need to rethink this so this doesn’t happen. It seems that he is playing more as a midfielder than a defensive minded player. Due to my fullback been adventurous it’s vital he stays and protects the two central defenders. If not then I’ll have massive problems because the centre backs will be exposed and more inclined to come clear the ball themselves.

Cross balls from the oppositions midfield to the advanced midfielders seems to have caught me out at times. I think my left fullback for caught here.

I need to watch that more as if it happens regular it’s an issue. But just the odd time isn’t something to really worry about.

The left fullback is becoming a concern now from what I’ve seen in this game. Look at this screenshot;

A quick ball over the top and the Liverpool player is away and has a clear pitch to run into. I need to revise the settings of my player if this happens in other games. What I’ll need to do is watch a few more games and see if I can find any reoccurring problems.

In this game I keep getting the feeling that my player’s are pressing far too much. This is something I need to address for future games. But it might only happen against strong teams, against the smaller sides I have player’s with enough quality for it not to be an issue. But still it’s something I will put right for future games.

On this screenshot I only have 2 players back on attacking set pieces.

I know there doesn’t seem to be much danger but if the ball is cleared then I’ll be straight on the back foot and have no room for my defensive players to make a mistake. I need a few more bodies back just eliminate that risk.

When I lose the ball in the middle of the park it can be a problem at times as I get out numbered quite easy. I think if I do the changes I mentioned earlier with the midfielder and defensive midfielder then this shouldn’t be as bad. It’s just as things stand currently I have two players all going for the same ball.

If anyone wants to view the above match and provide their own input it would be greatly appreciated, here is the link for the PKM http://www.filefront.com/16104897/Arsenal%20v%20Liverpool.pkm

I've closed the seperate discussion thread as people don't seem interested in discussing this topic. So I'll just unpin this topic from the top of the forum and just use this thread for any further discussions and I've decided to not carry on this project now due to lack of interest

Hi Buddy,

I've had a quick nosey of the game and scooted through a lot of it.

Two things I've noticed:

1. Clichy really doesnt like passing to Vela. Unless Vela is open and Clichy has no other options, he always passes inside.

2. Most of your Free Kicks are hoofed into the box. Have you seen the height and the jumping on the Arsenal team?

I'll have another look when i get some more time.

Cheers

LAM

ps.... It would be interesting to see your players instructions..... unless you are keeping those quiet for a reason.

Hi Buddy,

I've had a quick nosey of the game and scooted through a lot of it.

Two things I've noticed:

1. Clichy really doesnt like passing to Vela. Unless Vela is open and Clichy has no other options, he always passes inside.

2. Most of your Free Kicks are hoofed into the box. Have you seen the height and the jumping on the Arsenal team?

I'll have another look when i get some more time.

Cheers

LAM

ps.... It would be interesting to see your players instructions..... unless you are keeping those quiet for a reason.

I'll be doing a thread about the tactic I am using, there is a lot to discuss about that I feel. So that should be up later today or tomorrow. I'm writing it up now.

I've not touched set pieces yet, I always leave them until season 2. As I was paying more style to the actual game play rather than dead ball situations. I already know what I'll do for these settings though now.

The passing thing yeah, I noticed that too. I think I've solved a lot of these issues now, but I'll need to re watch some more games that I've played to know for sure. That'll also bring me some new problems:D

Cleon

Im managing in the lower leagues (BSS at the moment) and the problem is that when you look for issues - well they're all there! It's very hard to work out what's going wrong when everything seems to be. Any chance you could try to apply this to a BSS team for me? Would be really helpful. Perhaps even my game if you wanna add me on MSN and I can send you the file?

Cleon

Im managing in the lower leagues (BSS at the moment) and the problem is that when you look for issues - well they're all there! It's very hard to work out what's going wrong when everything seems to be. Any chance you could try to apply this to a BSS team for me? Would be really helpful. Perhaps even my game if you wanna add me on MSN and I can send you the file?

Regardless of what team you are, the same logic applies. What you have to do is just look at why you are losing games, it could be that it's from set pieces. Then you can work out what's wrong.

I've not won in 15 games. If that's just down to set pieces there's something very wrong with the game! Based on the fact that the opposition have had last-minute penalties in the last 5 games I've played (with Boreham Wood and then with Barcelona in another save), I'd say FM probably has it in for me

I follow all the advice which seems to get other people promoted and so on, and I get 15 straight defeats. Thinking of reverting to FM09....

I've not won in 15 games. If that's just down to set pieces there's something very wrong with the game!

That was just an example.....

If you've not won in 15 games there must be a pattern to how the games are been lost. So how are you losing games?

But thats the thing - it seems to me like everything is going wrong, so its hard to pick out one factor.

Oh, that and that I've had six last-minute penalties awarded against me. Which I think is pretty shocking bad luck!

Is it the same player giving away the penalties?

I just found this thread and started reading thinking it would be a massive help to learning how one of the more tactically gifted managers adapts and changes during a game. Imagine my dissapointment when I get to the bottom to find an abrupt end due to lack of interest. I was really enjoying reading this and I have been waiting for something like this for ages. Its all well and good reading guides on how to create tactics etc. but being able to see how someone actually analyses the game and tweaks his tactic is so much more helpful.

I wish I found this thread while it was still active, I certainly would have been interested in reading more/discussing it. Were you planning eventually to show a game and the tweaks you make during the game and demonstrate how they helped you to win etc? Another thing I would be interested to see is examples of how you picked a certain lineup to expose weaknesses in the opposition (whether it is the starting lineup or changes during the game). Quite often I will identify a weakness in the other team and want to exploit it but I just don't know how, e.g. if they have a slow fullback, short of focussing the play down one side and putting on a fast winger I don't know what else to do to really take advantage, how would you draw him out so you can play a ball over the top of him etc.

Great post anyway, shame it had to end

Thought I'd give this a bump

I've decided to redo this and complete it for when FM11 is out or just after.

So if anyone has ideas onto what kind sof stuff they want to see then I can try to add it to the guide. So let me know in this thread what you'd like to see

This is fantastic stuff. The resources you have put together for new players to the game are more useful than you can imagine. The amount of information is pretty overwhelming at first though. I have been using TC tactics for the first month I've been playing, and mostly just changing player roles to suit my team. As I'm learning more I'm tinkering with new formations and I'm finding it incredibly difficult to create space using narrow formations.

What would really benefit me is a broken down analysis of what each setting actually means (for instance, what does 'normal' mean for player width instructions?). Another one that really interests me is how the philosophy setting truly affects my team. I've tried out a few downloaded tactics just to try to see how it all works but a good breakdown by someone who has played the game for years would really help me.

The interplay between different settings has me quite confused as well. For instance, if I give a player a specific instruction, does that mean nothing I do with team instructions or shouts can now affect that setting? Or if I move my team to 'more direct' will a player with a specific instruction still change even though his slider doesn't move? I find myself rarely using the shouts because they seem to be too extreme in most cases; I usually only use them if I'm desperate or to close out a result. Indeed I find myself tweaking individual player instructions in-game, and therefore never really using the shouts or team instructions much. This is time consuming and truthfully not very much fun, but right now I don't know how else to do it.

I just want to thank you all for the massive resources out there for this game. My only complaint is that there is SO MUCH GOOD INFO on here that I can't play the game if I want to read it all!

Not quite sure how I've missed this thread in the past, but it's a great bit of work and given me a lot to think about. Thanks Cleon

I've decided to redo this and complete it for when FM11 is out or just after.

So if anyone has ideas onto what kind sof stuff they want to see then I can try to add it to the guide. So let me know in this thread what you'd like to see

Great effort here Cleon, I think all of us appreciate your insights and useful tips, it is much better then just giving everyone a tactic to download and use.

I'm not sure how you will be structuring your guide for FM11, but I think what would be useful for all is a complete approach to dealing with tactics through the various stages. What I mean by this is from CONCEPT > CREATION > ANALYSIS > TWEAKING, basically a combination of your Sheffield United thread and this one. TT gives the theory but it does not try to link back to gameplay like you endeavour to do with your guides.

Great work. As a relative newbie to FM, this was an eye opener. I have played a mix of teams (from BSS to lower-level Premier teams and international teams) and never really sat back to see how to apply the stats and highlights. I usually watch them for what they are--highlights. But this has opened up a new can of worms, one I am very happy to start digging through.

In many games, I have been frustrated by players getting jumbled up, clustering in one part of the pitch, or not properly spacing out. I read many of the tactician posts on here, including the array of SFraser posts, and began to try to tailor some formation to make it "mine." But as drhay53 said above, I was unsure which sliders to tweak, which way to tweak them, and how to determine if it had the desired effect. It ended up with me trying to find some semblance of a decent tactic, and then hoping the players would overcome my ineptitude to make it work on the pitch.

The way you discuss the subtle things above, however, give me a better understanding of how it all works together. I plan on sitting down and trying to make the tactic work for the team, not vice versa. Otherwise, this was great, and I can't think of much more to add to it. Thanks for all the hard work in getting this together for us rookies so we can try to tackle the biggest aspect of the game!