TT&F and Such Like

I have been reading alot of post lately about plug and play vs the TC. Personally I am a fan of the latter. Where I think issues lye is the lack of help/documentaion about how things work and why.

I was a big fan of TT&F. I feel that since the dispute between SI and FM Britain documentation has been short, certainly for the gamers who played the TT&F way. I also feel the forums can sometimes get like a battlefield. So this has often put me of talking about the game and asking for help.

Don't get me wrong I do not want to be spoon fed everything but with the way the game is going, I do feel more advice is needed.

I just wondered what others point of views were?

I definitely agree. I just wan't to be able to translate the tactic I have in my mind into the tactic creator without having to experiment 5 to 10 games. I feel that if the results of all the options in the TC were explained more thoroughly in a manual, guide or forum post somewhere this would be a lot easier to do. I now feel like I have a good grip on all the options and how they translate to in game player behavior but this comes from a LOT of reading and experimentation. I don't think more casual players wan't to put so much effort into it and while the TC is very approachable and it's easy to get a balanced formation with player roles that make sense and a style and philosophy you like (which is a great achievement and SI should be proud of this) I just feel that when you want to get one step deeper into the your tactic and really lay out how you wan't your players to move about on the pitch and generate and exploit space either the TC is too limited or not clear enough on how the options impact player behavior.

If there is a guide or manual somewhere with this information feel free to disregard this post and point me to the document in question .

I definitely agree. I just wan't to be able to translate the tactic I have in my mind into the tactic creator without having to experiment 5 to 10 games. I feel that if the results of all the options in the TC were explained more thoroughly in a manual, guide or forum post somewhere this would be a lot easier to do. I now feel like I have a good grip on all the options and how they translate to in game player behavior but this comes from a LOT of reading and experimentation. I don't think more casual players wan't to put so much effort into it and while the TC is very approachable and it's easy to get a balanced formation with player roles that make sense and a style and philosophy you like (which is a great achievement and SI should be proud of this) I just feel that when you want to get one step deeper into the your tactic and really lay out how you wan't your players to move about on the pitch and generate and exploit space either the TC is too limited or not clear enough on how the options impact player behavior.

If there is a guide or manual somewhere with this information feel free to disregard this post and point me to the document in question .

Although I partly agree with your post, I think gamers who play the game this way have to accept the game has become more complexed and with continue to do so. So players need to take a bit more time looking at things and making changes acordingly. Like yourself I can use the TC well enough to set up my base tactic, it is other areas of the game where I need to learn more. I.E. Match reading, what to look out for when applying OI's and shouts. So is where I think more documentation is needed.

The main man behind TT&F and the TC is wwfan. He is the first to admit that SI's documentation and general help is utterly inadequate.

The FM Britain guys did a good job but like many I deeply resent their move to charge for their work and agree with SI in expelling them.

What this leaves us is this forum with copious assistance from wwfan, backed up by brilliant help from other gurus such as SFraser, heathxxx and Cleon. The threads are scattered about this forum a bit, but not that hard to find, and is well worth the effort. What's more, they are always available here for any honest inquiries. What they all do is help you to understand the logic of the GAME (not the mechanics of the ME and exploits thereof; those 'P&P' threads are thankfully stuffed away in a corner that we can easily avoid now).

I have been reading alot of post lately about plug and play vs the TC. Personally I am a fan of the latter. Where I think issues lye is the lack of help/documentaion about how things work and why.

I was a big fan of TT&F. I feel that since the dispute between SI and FM Britain documentation has been short, certainly for the gamers who played the TT&F way. I also feel the forums can sometimes get like a battlefield. So this has often put me of talking about the game and asking for help.

Don't get me wrong I do not want to be spoon fed everything but with the way the game is going, I do feel more advice is needed.

I just wondered what others point of views were?

Hi Dale,

Right now, not much has changed from the last version and T&T '10 is still the best guide on the Internet regarding making FM tactics.

The whole 'plug and play' thing is not for me. I find the idea boring and I'm not even really sure that 'plug and play' exists anyway. Yeah, sure, you can exploit the match engine but it doesn't lead to a proper understanding of the game and seems to lead most people into troubles in the future anyway when they suffer a defeat that they just don't understand because they don't have any knowledge of the ME beyond the exploits.

It's a shame about FM Britain and SI. Not really sure what to say there. FM Britain was producing some good stuff but I'm totally against the idea of charging for guides, so there isn't much more for me to say.

WWFan is still producing some fine guides/discussion threads on this forum. There are still plenty of people to help here on T&T. I don't think that there is any shortage of advice or ideas being discussed. I certainly don't think you need to go paying for a guide.

The whole 'TT&F' way was all about trying to play the game in a realistic way. At it's most basic level, it's pretty simple really. The basic premise is that football managers have a game plan depending on the situation that they find themselves in and that they have different strategies with which to approach a game. The most basic idea is translatable to any of the games in the FM series.

As for the complicated stuff, that's all in TT&F '10. And the rest, well, that's the fun of experimenting and discussing with your fellow managers on the tactics forum.

The great thing about FM tactically is that now, with the introduction of the TC, it's perfectly possible for someone to keep it simple or to make it as complicated as they want. Want to play 4-4-2, using simple roles and just adjusting strategy depending on your opponent using a bit of common sense? Fine, you can be extremely successful using this simple method. Alternatively, want to work on a complex 4-2-3-1 with lots of 'roaming from position' and creative freedom, plus more detailed game plans involving touchline shouts? Yeah, you can do that too, but you don't have to.

The best way to approach the game now is with some common sense, with some reading of the TT&T guide (always have it to hand as a handy reference guide) and by learning as you play. That's my advice.

Hi Dale,

Right now, not much has changed from the last version and T&T '10 is still the best guide on the Internet regarding making FM tactics.

The whole 'plug and play' thing is not for me. I find the idea boring and I'm not even really sure that 'plug and play' exists anyway. Yeah, sure, you can exploit the match engine but it doesn't lead to a proper understanding of the game and seems to lead most people into troubles in the future anyway when they suffer a defeat that they just don't understand because they don't have any knowledge of the ME beyond the exploits.

It's a shame about FM Britain and SI. Not really sure what to say there. FM Britain was producing some good stuff but I'm totally against the idea of charging for guides, so there isn't much more for me to say.

WWFan is still producing some fine guides/discussion threads on this forum. There are still plenty of people to help here on T&T. I don't think that there is any shortage of advice or ideas being discussed. I certainly don't think you need to go paying for a guide.

The whole 'TT&F' way was all about trying to play the game in a realistic way. At it's most basic level, it's pretty simple really. The basic premise is that football managers have a game plan depending on the situation that they find themselves in and that they have different strategies with which to approach a game. The most basic idea is translatable to any of the games in the FM series.

As for the complicated stuff, that's all in TT&F '10. And the rest, well, that's the fun of experimenting and discussing with your fellow managers on the tactics forum.

The great thing about FM tactically is that now, with the introduction of the TC, it's perfectly possible for someone to keep it simple or to make it as complicated as they want. Want to play 4-4-2, using simple roles and just adjusting strategy depending on your opponent using a bit of common sense? Fine, you can be extremely successful using this simple method. Alternatively, want to work on a complex 4-2-3-1 with lots of 'roaming from position' and creative freedom, plus more detailed game plans involving touchline shouts? Yeah, you can do that too, but you don't have to.

The best way to approach the game now is with some common sense, with some reading of the TT&T guide (always have it to hand as a handy reference guide) and by learning as you play. That's my advice.

Thanks for your advice.

First of all I'd like to say that I completely agreed with SI with there stance on purchasing guides and advice.

I'm struggling to explaing where I struggle without sounding stupid. As I said I've got to gripps with building a tactic but I guess struggle from then on. (I say I struggle, I've taken my home town side Swindon from league 1 to 3rd in the Championship) I guess I strive for perfection. Or I struggle when I don't have a base plan to work with and don't understand why I'm doing certain things.

I.E. A forum member could suggest using a counter strategy away from, with certain shouts but if I don't understand why I'm using them (even if I win) I can't get my head round it.

Hope this makes sense?

Thanks for your advice.

First of all I'd like to say that I completely agreed with SI with there stance on purchasing guides and advice.

I'm struggling to explaing where I struggle without sounding stupid. As I said I've got to gripps with building a tactic but I guess struggle from then on. (I say I struggle, I've taken my home town side Swindon from league 1 to 3rd in the Championship) I guess I strive for perfection. Or I struggle when I don't have a base plan to work with and don't understand why I'm doing certain things.

I.E. A forum member could suggest using a counter strategy away from, with certain shouts but if I don't understand why I'm using them (even if I win) I can't get my head round it.

Hope this makes sense?

If in doubt, simplify things. I find the best way to play FM is to think about questions like this:

1) 'If this was a real life match, what would my strategy be?'

2) 'Would I be happy with a point here or should I be aiming for all three?'

3) 'Do I want to keep things tight & attack on the break, or dominate the game and go all out attack, or maybe just take a middle ground here?'

Etc. etc.

And so on and so forth. Pretty basic questions really and nothing too complicated.

As for touchline shouts, I would use the T&TT '10 guide and use that alongside the game for now. Eventually, you'll get used to what the shouts do and which ones you like to use. This, for example, is a post on some of my favourite shouts - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/185204-My-Favourite-Shouts

Sounds like you are doing pretty well with Swindon anyway.

My stance is the same as it always was. I don't think the documentation or feedback in game is what it should be and I think it is a serious issue that SI needs to address.

As for me personally, I don't have the time to write any long book guides anymore. Gareth did for a year but now finds himself in a similar situation to me. Jordan tried to creatively approach the problem, made a few mistakes, got a little burned. As a result, there's no TT&F11 and no likelihood of a new guide in the immediate future. However, TT&F10 still does a perfectly acceptable job.

I am still involved with FM/SI at other levels and fulfil my duties as best I can. I try to write shorter guides and contribute to interesting threads as much as time allows. I continue to do other less obvious stuff as well. I am not currently active on the 'scene' and don't knowingly allow other English language sites to publish any guides (although am happy for foreign langauge sites to translate and publish them). I am stll connected to FMB and would hope to contribute to the site again in the next 12 months or so, although I'm not sure what form that would be.

NB: FMB decided to leave the SIAS scheme. They were not expelled. I still feel it is a great shame that what happened went down the way it did and felt it could have been handled better by all sides. However, I don't hold any grudges with anybody involved and would work with any and all of them again in a heartbeat if the right project came up.

If in doubt, simplify things. I find the best way to play FM is to think about questions like this:

1) 'If this was a real life match, what would my strategy be?'

2) 'Would I be happy with a point here or should I be aiming for all three?'

3) 'Do I want to keep things tight & attack on the break, or dominate the game and go all out attack, or maybe just take a middle ground here?'

Etc. etc.

And so on and so forth. Pretty basic questions really and nothing too complicated.

As for touchline shouts, I would use the T&TT '10 guide and use that alongside the game for now. Eventually, you'll get used to what the shouts do and which ones you like to use. This, for example, is a post on some of my favourite shouts - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/185204-My-Favourite-Shouts

Sounds like you are doing pretty well with Swindon anyway.

Again thanks for the advice.

Once again, without trying to look like I want to be spoon fed everything. In your opion how would you simplfy things?

How would you tighten things up?

How would you look at dominating a game?

Again thanks for the advice.

Once again, without trying to look like I want to be spoon fed everything. In your opion how would you simplfy things?

At the most basic level, pick a system that you confident in employing and know suits your players. Simplest could be a 4-4-2 as we all know that one back-to-front. Stick with mostly defaults, of course change a few roles if you want to etc., but don't overcomplicate. Then just approach each game with the simple approach I outlined above. Once you get more confidence with how the game works, you can try more complicated systems.

How would you tighten things up?

Depends. Switch to counter if I still fancy playing on the break. Switch to defensive if I want to kill the game. Maybe even switch to contain if I just want to hold on to what I have got for the remaining minutes on the clock.

At the same time, tightening things up might be something simpler like switching from an attacking strategy to a more balanced one (control or standard for example) in order to just tighten things up a little bit if you have a decent lead.

These are all decisions I take based upon one single question really: what would I do if I was a real manager and I was in this situation with my team?

How would you look at dominating a game?

Probably starting with an attacking strategy (maybe a controlling one away from home). Usually would think about 'retaining possession' using the shouts, to slow things down and keep the ball. I might use other shouts too, depending on different feelings that I have about the game, see my old thread on shouts - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/185204-My-Favourite-Shouts

That's about it really. I honestly treat the game as simply as this most of the time. Sometimes I get a bit more complicated with it, because I know it really well now and so maybe I want to try something, but most of the time I approach the game in this simple way. It's served me well (St. Albans City, one of the best sides in Europe in the year 2030! )

My stance is the same as it always was. I don't think the documentation or feedback in game is what it should be and I think it is a serious issue that SI needs to address.

As for me personally, I don't have the time to write any long book guides anymore. Gareth did for a year but now finds himself in a similar situation to me. Jordan tried to creatively approach the problem, made a few mistakes, got a little burned. As a result, there's no TT&F11 and no likelihood of a new guide in the immediate future. However, TT&F10 still does a perfectly acceptable job.

I am still involved with FM/SI at other levels and fulfil my duties as best I can. I try to write shorter guides and contribute to interesting threads as much as time allows. I continue to do other less obvious stuff as well. I am not currently active on the 'scene' and don't knowingly allow other English language sites to publish any guides (although am happy for foreign langauge sites to translate and publish them). I am stll connected to FMB and would hope to contribute to the site again in the next 12 months or so, although I'm not sure what form that would be.

NB: FMB decided to leave the SIAS scheme. They were not expelled. I still feel it is a great shame that what happened went down the way it did and felt it could have been handled better by all sides. However, I don't hold any grudges with anybody involved and would work with any and all of them again in a heartbeat if the right project came up.

Please don't get me wrong, I understand theses guides take time and effort to produce. But from what I've seen since the SIAS Scheme started, no solid guide has been produced, maybe I've mis-understood the the purpose of the Scheme.

When you started these guides you were able to put the time in because you had the time to spare. I suppose the reason I've started this thread is because I now find myself in that place. I would love to produce a guide such as that, but I am not a beta tester and I think I'd struggle being one.

People like yourself, Gareth, Cleon and others seem to have an eye for certain things. I mean at the moment I struggle with seeing simple things such as: where the D-line is placed, when teams are narrow or wide or when a player is out of posisstion. But if somebody could explain and point things out I'd soon understand things.

At the most basic level, pick a system that you confident in employing and know suits your players. Simplest could be a 4-4-2 as we all know that one back-to-front. Stick with mostly defaults, of course change a few roles if you want to etc., but don't overcomplicate. Then just approach each game with the simple approach I outlined above. Once you get more confidence with how the game works, you can try more complicated systems.

Depends. Switch to counter if I still fancy playing on the break. Switch to defensive if I want to kill the game. Maybe even switch to contain if I just want to hold on to what I have got for the remaining minutes on the clock.

At the same time, tightening things up might be something simpler like switching from an attacking strategy to a more balanced one (control or standard for example) in order to just tighten things up a little bit if you have a decent lead.

These are all decisions I take based upon one single question really: what would I do if I was a real manager and I was in this situation with my team?

Probably starting with an attacking strategy (maybe a controlling one away from home). Usually would think about 'retaining possession' using the shouts, to slow things down and keep the ball. I might use other shouts too, depending on different feelings that I have about the game, see my old thread on shouts - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/185204-My-Favourite-Shouts

That's about it really. I honestly treat the game as simply as this most of the time. Sometimes I get a bit more complicated with it, because I know it really well now and so maybe I want to try something, but most of the time I approach the game in this simple way. It's served me well (St. Albans City, one of the best sides in Europe in the year 2030! )

Great stuff thanks.

So if you play defensive, would you change team instructions?

Great stuff thanks.

So if you play defensive, would you change team instructions?

I don't touch anything. I only use the TC and shouts these days.

I don't touch anything. I only use the TC and shouts these days.

Fundamentalist!

I think I have enough understanding about basic football principles that I could write a guide on most topics around here but the one thing I sometimes struggle with is to translate more advanced instructions into TC instructions. Yesterday I tried to play a hybrid 3 man/4 man defense with a DM who takes on a similar role as Busquets sometimes does at barca where he drops into the D-line creating a back 3 while the fullbacks/wingbacks bomb forward to give a narrow formation more width. The power of this type of player is that he isn't just a 3rd defender but also a defensive midfielder or even a deep lying playmaker so in build up he sits in front of the D-line and helps retain possession and links with midfield or even looks for throughballs to the attacking players. When the ball gets into more advanced positions he stays deep and gets into the D-line to help cover for counter attacks.

I tried to get this role working in the TC both as the middle DC in a row of three and as a lone DM sitting in front. When I tried him as DC he would never do as much as one step outside the D-line in build up play and a line of 3 defenders is just not what you want at that stage. When I tried to get the role working for a lone DM he would never really get deep enough and the two DC never got wide so I ended up with a very defensive compact triangle but no width in defense to cover for counters down the wings. This last option still worked because the defenders would eventually close down the wide threat and the DM would cover but it was far less solid than it could be (and it looks silly).

Now my I'm hoping that I can't get it right because of my lack of knowledge and that is why I am looking for a guide that goes more in depth into how each TC instruction influences the players behavior in the game. Then when I have a better understanding of the TC I might be able to get things like the above example working in my tactic. I'm afraid that there is no such guide because I already know all the possibilities and they are just too limited to get this working. In that case I'm not looking for a guide but just wan't to kindly ask SI to look into making more advanced or specific instructions possible inside the TC.

I spent hours trying to get the Busquets role working, mostly to try and replicate the Libero more than anything. I've come to a conclusion, it simply won't work as you see it in real life. Hopefully it'll be possible in FM12.

Fundamentalist!

Well, to be honest, WWFan will tell you that I was hugely opposed to the TC and the touchline shouts when it was first announced for FM10. As a fan of the sliders, I hated the idea at first. Following that, I had to put my hands up and admit that I was totally wrong. I went into FM10 with an open mind and found that the TC and the shouts changed the game for me and much for the better.

I've given my thoughts on it in depth elsewhere but I just feel that the game is much better for the introduction of the TC and shouts, changing the dynamic of the game for the better. Now, I only use the TC and shouts, and I find the game more challenging and fun playing in that manner.

That's not to say that there isn't a whole bunch of improvements that I would like to see made to the TC. I'm far from totally happy with everything. This is, indeed, one reason why I have been so disappointed with FM11, because I hoped for more evolution of the TC options (especially customisation to some level as well as more and more tactical options)!

Well, to be honest, WWFan will tell you that I was hugely opposed to the TC and the touchline shouts when it was first announced for FM10. As a fan of the sliders, I hated the idea at first. Following that, I had to put my hands up and admit that I was totally wrong. I went into FM10 with an open mind and found that the TC and the shouts changed the game for me and much for the better.

I've given my thoughts on it in depth elsewhere but I just feel that the game is much better for the introduction of the TC and shouts, changing the dynamic of the game for the better. Now, I only use the TC and shouts, and I find the game more challenging and fun playing in that manner.

That's not to say that there isn't a whole bunch of improvements that I would like to see made to the TC. I'm far from totally happy with everything. This is, indeed, one reason why I have been so disappointed with FM11, because I hoped for more evolution of the TC options (especially customisation to some level as well as more and more tactical options)!

I completely agree..I still also feel more advice is needed. It's great being able to build a platform but if you don't how to apply it you will never get anywhere. Which is where I go back FMB's old guides and the need for something to replace it.

I'll agree that documentation for the game could be much better, though at least the definitions of basic things in the online manual is fairly good. Certainly when it comes to defining many of the core functions of the game, or explaining what attributes mean, in a concise manner.

As for guides like TT&F, the situation between FMB & SI, I'm completely on the fence, as I understand the reasons from both parties regarding what transpired. Whilst I always hope that great user created guides will always remain within the free public domain, producing something that's of a high enough quality that's easy to understand, takes a hell of a lot of time and support.

For my own part, I only have the time to post or contribute on these forums. When I start a thread like the lower league management approach, It's always when I have some free time. Some of you who have been here a while, will have noticed that I can "disappear" for weeks or months at a time, which is usually when I'm preoccupied with work or my personal life. When I start such a thread though, the intention is that it's not just about my thoughts and opinions, or that anything I say is gospel that should be followed to the letter. It's usually a collection of ideas that have worked well for me whilst playing the game and I try to encourage others to share their opinions and thoughts, all of which are valid, because there's many ways to successfully approach the game, which is the greatest thing about FM I think.

A self-confessed slider tweak-a-holic, I was delighted with the TC when it launched with FM10. Much of the interface is easy to use and common sense, though intelligently designed enough that you can use it solely, combine it with "advanced" and more specific/detailed slider options, or decide not to use it at all. For me, it's made the bulk of what I want to do, much quicker and easier. I can quickly set up a pretty realistic tactical style or approach, then concentrate on other aspects of the game. I rely then much more on observation of what's playing our in front of my eyes in the match engine, along with good use of the data widgets, to enable me to make what I "think" are the right changes, if need be.

When it comes to setting up a base tactically, I try to either go with something as simple as possible or create an emulation of how a real team plays, or at least, how I interpret the way they play.

From there, I build my team around it, focusing on getting the right balance of player attributes. I think that's much easier to do with the tactics creator "at a glance", because with just the sliders, deciding and deciphering what the most suitable player attributes for your slider settings, was a challenge in itself.

It's always been my "approach" to build a team around a base tactic. Once I'm on the right track with my squad building, I rarely need to tweak things much tactically and most trouble-shooting I do in matches is via shouts, or changing the match strategy from something like "attacking" to "defensive", or whatever.

Essentially, I think things are much more approachable. I'd venture that a great many people do too, as it's nowhere near as often I see threads discussion which sliders and how many clicks, this or that direction, people need to use. This makes discussing tactics far more easy and understandable.

Not sure if any body can help? I have two questions.

People say to read TT 10.. I'm Swindon and have Man utd in the cup. In TT 10 it advices to use a defencive strategy..When I do this they completely out play me.

I've also so read post from WWfan and others who say they start games with a controll and counter strategy. In TT 10 it says these strategies are breakdown strategies.

Well, it's Man Utd. They're bound to outplay you anyway!

The defensive strategy really is about defending and not much else. Yeah, you might get something on the break, but you're basically hoping for a 0-0 when employing the defensive strategy from the start. If I feel that I have a decent chance, but I'm a big underdog, I would normally go for counter and save defensive for later in the game. That said, you probably picked the right option given that you're playing Man Utd and they're bound to be an absolutely quality side. Chances are, you're going to lose this game, so try to defend and stop them from scoring is your best chance (although maybe this depends as well on whether you are at home or away).

To get anything against Man Utd, you're always going to have to have an amazing day and hope that they have a total nightmare. It means getting everything right as manager tactically and in terms of motivation.

What about team talks and press conferences? What options did you pick for this?

Below, I'm going to give an example of being huge underdogs and using the defensive strategy to get something from a game.

I was playing as Hellas Verona at the time and we had just got back to Serie A. This was our first season back in the big time and we were fighting against relegation. As a result, we were huge underdogs for most games, but especially against any of the big sides.

This is the result I was talking about:

We were absolutely pummelled for 90 minutes and then totally stole the win in the very last minute of injury time. The Roma fans would no doubt be calling us thieves!

This really was a smash and grab victory. The key seemed to be the fact that I played down our chances in the media by saying that I felt we had little chance of winning the game. I backed this up with my team talk before the match and therefore told the players 'no pressure'. At half-time when we got in at 0-0, I praised the players. We also played really defensive football (defensive strategy) and I just had a feeling, as Roma weren't making quality chances, that we would get something if we could just get one chance. And that we did!

Bear in mind, I went into this game hoping for 0-0 and a point. The three points was a bonus. I was more or less expecting to get beaten, such was the inferiority of my side.

Note that my team were totally outplayed and battered for the majority of the game. But great defending meant few good chances for Roma. We held on and snatched an unlikely victory.

I've never celebrated a victory quite like this one. A vital three points in our survival campaign! And the press conference and team talk decisions definitely played a key part, as did the defensive strategy.

Goes to show you that tactics aren't always everything. The real lesson, though, is that when you're playing a big side and you're massive underdogs, you rarely get days like this and you always need to get all your decisions spot on and also have a little something go your way.

Well, it's Man Utd. They're bound to outplay you anyway!

The defensive strategy really is about defending and not much else. Yeah, you might get something on the break, but you're basically hoping for a 0-0 when employing the defensive strategy from the start. If I feel that I have a decent chance, but I'm a big underdog, I would normally go for counter and save defensive for later in the game. That said, you probably picked the right option given that you're playing Man Utd and they're bound to be an absolutely quality side. Chances are, you're going to lose this game, so try to defend and stop them from scoring is your best chance (although maybe this depends as well on whether you are at home or away).

To get anything against Man Utd, you're always going to have to have an amazing day and hope that they have a total nightmare. It means getting everything right as manager tactically and in terms of motivation.

What about team talks and press conferences? What options did you pick for this?

Below, I'm going to give an example of being huge underdogs and using the defensive strategy to get something from a game.

I was playing as Hellas Verona at the time and we had just got back to Serie A. This was our first season back in the big time and we were fighting against relegation. As a result, we were huge underdogs for most games, but especially against any of the big sides.

This is the result I was talking about:

We were absolutely pummelled for 90 minutes and then totally stole the win in the very last minute of injury time. The Roma fans would no doubt be calling us thieves!

This really was a smash and grab victory. The key seemed to be the fact that I played down our chances in the media by saying that I felt we had little chance of winning the game. I backed this up with my team talk before the match and therefore told the players 'no pressure'. At half-time when we got in at 0-0, I praised the players. We also played really defensive football (defensive strategy) and I just had a feeling, as Roma weren't making quality chances, that we would get something if we could just get one chance. And that we did!

Bear in mind, I went into this game hoping for 0-0 and a point. The three points was a bonus. I was more or less expecting to get beaten, such was the inferiority of my side.

Note that my team were totally outplayed and battered for the majority of the game. But great defending meant few good chances for Roma. We held on and snatched an unlikely victory.

I've never celebrated a victory quite like this one. A vital three points in our survival campaign! And the press conference and team talk decisions definitely played a key part, as did the defensive strategy.

Goes to show you that tactics aren't always everything. The real lesson, though, is that when you're playing a big side and you're massive underdogs, you rarely get days like this and you always need to get all your decisions spot on and also have a little something go your way.

I started with standard as I was at home. after reading a thread on D-lines, I added shouts: Drop deeper, play narrower, stand off and stay on feet.

I played up our chances and team talk: for the fans

When I'm the underdog and playing at home I sometimes just throw caution to the wind and start with a very high pressure attacking strategy. I try to put immediate pressure on my opponent and tell my players to go in hard with the tackles. Basically I try to restrict space and turn the game into a pit fight and in the chaos grab a goal before one of my players is send off. It's risky tho as when the opponent stays composed and outplays you you get outplayed badly. If they struggle and players start buckling under pressure you can really break your opponent down hard. I literally destroyed stuttgart 5-1 with fc utrecht using this strategy as they went in slightly complacent and got punished hard by my motivated, hard working Utrecht side. It's not something you can keep up a whole season tho as the cards and tiredness really start to haunt you if you use this too much. It's already hard enough to keep up a whole match. Usually I switch to control when I go up and try to play the game out with enough pressure but sometimes you just have to switch to defense to prevent loss of fitness.

crouchaldinho - I love results like that, with an inferior team.

Thoroughly enjoyed doing my "Anti-Football" thing against Real Madrid. Whilst playing them in the Spanish Cup last season (whilst we were Liga Adelante) and again this season in the Super Cup. Although I've considerably improved my defence this season, many games will be against much better overall opponents. I'd love to play some of the "good stuff", but against teams like Real Madrid or Barcelona, there's absolutely no way my team will match them by playing good football. They'll get ripped apart.

Instead, I have to take an approach similar to Ottmar Hitzfeld's Swiss side against Spain at the World Cup. Stifle, frustrate, don't take any chances at the back and look for odd chances to counter-attack effectively. I managed to get my team to do this using "Control" or "Defend" and different shout combinations. I tend to pay close attention to opposition instructions, trying to ensure their players have as little time on the ball as possible. I'm even willing to risk cards and injuries by getting stuck into them with hard tackling. Pretty it isn't, but with a slice of luck thrown in for good measure, it can be very effective.

So far this season, on top of the Super Cup win against Real Madrid, we beat Atletico Madrid, Levante and had a goalless draw against Mallorca. We've yet to concede a goal in the league, but offensively, we're probably not as clinical as I would like sometimes. I've a lot of young players though, who will potentially be excellent in two or three years time, so I'm more than happy with progress so far. Mid-table will be good going with my team, though I'll be delighted if we can battle our way to a European spot.

I always seem to have a knack of getting one over Real Madrid and Mourinho, but I've yet to play Barcelona. Quite daunting, as they've been stuffing teams for fun, winning their opening three games 7-0, 4-0 and 5-1.

All I need to figure out before I play them, is how I can erect a brick wall in front of my goal, without anyone noticing...

I oddly enough have a similar approach to Marsupian when playing as an underdog. My current save is one with Tenerife, a side relegated to the LIGA Adelante. First season I gained promotion and the title with an unbeaten league season so my second season was spent buying the best free players I could to bulk up the very weak squad. At the end of it all I finished a quite pleasing 8th position but I had an incredible home form (only losing to Real Madrid and that was a well fought defeat).

At the start of season 3 I once again resorted to free transfers but had to put more emphasis on attacking rather than sitting deep and soaking pressure. Needless to say I struggled at the start of the season and was 18th after the opening few matches. Then came the test of Barcelona at the Nou Camp. I pretty much bricked it since I had been poor throughout the season. Since I knew from previous experience that sitting back and soaking pressure didn't work as Barca had all the time in the world and the technical ability to split my shoddy defence open despite me playing safe. I therefore did the quite stupid move of giving it a bit of welly and tried to attack Barca from the off, stopping them from getting into a passing rhythm and keep the ball as best I could. Barca can't play like Barca if they don't have the ball.

So I played a Balanced Philosophy and an Attacking Strategy. All options were on default except pressing more and Hard Tackling. I kept it very simple with a4-2-3-1 (wingers) formation. Poacher up top to take whatever chances would be mustered and Inside Forward Wingers, Attack Duty. 2 Ball Winners and a standard Back 4 of Full Backs on Support and Central Defenders.

Below should be a screen showing the match stats. I lost the game 3-1 but if my defence didn't lose concentration at key moments (2 goals were through defensive errors) and Barca weren't so clinical in front of goal then I could have had a better result. And I managed to out possess Barca which I thought to be a nice wee achievement even if I didn't win . Whilst it isn't a success it is evidence that sometimes an attacking aggressive approach with weaker sides do have benefits.

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6571/barcelonavtenerifesplit.png' alt='barcelonavtenerifesplit.png'> Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/img]

Bloomin' eck! Gastón Fernández!

He was great for me whenever I signed him for teams with FM10, always on a free transfer. Might have to look him up again

Was a 3rd season signing on a free. 11.1 patch though. It's been a save I've been slowly plodding through. He is my replacement for Nino who himself is still a tremendous player but at 32 and Gaston on a free I had to snap him up. Had no other striker in the squad either so a necessary purchase. He scored 15 in 18 at the start of the season for me so I am pleased however only 3 goals in 11 recently. Very good buy for all sides excepting the elite