Champions League seedings

What a load of cr@p! My record over the last 5 seasons with Juventus with most recent to least is as follows:

QF (lost to winners)

Winner

Second round

Did not qualify (Serie A)

Did not qualify (Serie B)

which gets me in the second pot, and a UEFA coefficient of 17th behind the likes of Roma, Inter, Spurs who I've outperformed for the past couple of seasons and behind Man Yoo who are currently nowhere as they haven't managed a top 4 finish in 4 seasons and didn't even make the UEFA cup this year. Consequently I've been given an incredibly tough group consisting of Arsenal (did the Prem and CL double last season), Athletico Madrid (La Liga Champions) and Lokomotiv Moscow. And yet despite all this, I'm still the bookies' favourite to win it, Arsenal didn't even make the top 5/6! Crazy!

With two years of not even qualifying you've done really well to get in the 2nd pot!!

i thought it weird that when i won the CL with Lecce two years in a row my ranking went down but when i lost in the semi finals the next season it went up!

What a load of cr@p! My record over the last 5 seasons with Juventus with most recent to least is as follows:

QF (lost to winners)

Winner

Second round

Did not qualify (Serie A)

Did not qualify (Serie B)

which gets me in the second pot, and a UEFA coefficient of 17th behind the likes of Roma, Inter, Spurs who I've outperformed for the past couple of seasons and behind Man Yoo who are currently nowhere as they haven't managed a top 4 finish in 4 seasons and didn't even make the UEFA cup this year. Consequently I've been given an incredibly tough group consisting of Arsenal (did the Prem and CL double last season), Athletico Madrid (La Liga Champions) and Lokomotiv Moscow. And yet despite all this, I'm still the bookies' favourite to win it, Arsenal didn't even make the top 5/6! Crazy!

Why are you complaining?

That's not a great European record.

To be in the 2nd pot is lucky, to be honest.

If it wasn't for you winning it, you would be 3rd.

have to agree with the others here tbh, 2nd pot is fair if a little lucky

Although im a bit confused as to how you are the favourites lol

Also, what I must say.

I've just noticed, you have said:

DNQ (Serie A)

DNQ (Serie B)

So, what? You got relegated? And you're complaining?

Also, what I must say.

I've just noticed, you have said:

DNQ (Serie A)

DNQ (Serie B)

So, what? You got relegated? And you're complaining?

well Juve were relegated for match fixing, so he didn't get them relegated.

but one semi final in 5 years is obviously why your in 2nd pot, and id be happy with that

They are calculated based on how many matches you win in Europe and you get bonuses for reaching certain rounds in the Champions League for example. You also get 33% of the national coefficient so if other teams from the country do well in Europe even though you were not in Europe you could still get a decent number of coefficient points. Also they are based over a 4 year period. If you do well the following season you may move up.

well Juve were relegated for match fixing, so he didn't get them relegated.

but one semi final in 5 years is obviously why your in 2nd pot, and id be happy with that

Oh, sorry.

I was reading it the other way.

I thought it was:

Second Round in Season 1, Winner in Season 2, etc.

Sorry about that.

EDIT: Out of interest, Man United weren't the winners last season, were they?

If they were, that's why they top you...

Ok, maybe I over reacted a little when I saw how tough my group is. But how can you say we're lucky to be in the second pot? We've reached the last 16 or better three years in a row so clearly we're in the top 16 in Europe at least. I suppose we're being punished for the whole match fixing thing so I can't complain too much, it's just in the coefficient listings we're behind several teams who I've consistently beaten over the years. It doesn't take into account actual championships won either, I've won the last two and yet I'm still behind Fiorentina, ROma, Milan, Inter. For some reason Italys league ranking is way behind Spain who are first, and England. This is despite there being an Italian finalist every season and I think Fiorentina won the UEFA cup too.

Ok, maybe I over reacted a little when I saw how tough my group is. But how can you say we're lucky to be in the second pot? We've reached the last 16 or better three years in a row so clearly we're in the top 16 in Europe at least.

So have Celtic - They're THIRD pot.

You're a very, very lucky boy. =P

have to agree with the others here tbh, 2nd pot is fair if a little lucky

Although im a bit confused as to how you are the favourites lol

Because my team is awesome obviously. Mind you all I did one summer was sign Ronaldo and that made us favourites. Then again we did go on and win it...

So have Celtic - They're THIRD pot.

You're a very, very lucky boy. =P

But Celtic play in a mickey mouse league (offense intended - no typo!)

Ok, maybe I over reacted a little when I saw how tough my group is. But how can you say we're lucky to be in the second pot? We've reached the last 16 or better three years in a row so clearly we're in the top 16 in Europe at least. I suppose we're being punished for the whole match fixing thing so I can't complain too much, it's just in the coefficient listings we're behind several teams who I've consistently beaten over the years. It doesn't take into account actual championships won either, I've won the last two and yet I'm still behind Fiorentina, ROma, Milan, Inter. For some reason Italys league ranking is way behind Spain who are first, and England. This is despite there being an Italian finalist every season and I think Fiorentina won the UEFA cup too.

I said further up it just based on how many matches yo win draw in Europe etc. Just because one Italian team got to the final, maybe 3 English teams got to the semi's. An Italian team getting to the final is not the whole picture.

Hmm, reading this reminded me of a question I had when I saw the Club Coefficients of my save's 2009/2010 season. Sorry to hijack the thread but I'll post it here since it is relevant to seeding and might be related to the original poster's query.

I am playing as Arsenal in that save and had won Manchester United in the 2009/2010 Champion's League Final.

Our CL playing records are as follows:

Group Stages

Arsenal: W4 D2 L0

Man United: W5 D0 L1

First Knockout Round

Arsenal: W2 D0 L0

Man United: W2 D0 L0

Quarter-Final

Arsenal: W1 D1 L0

Man United: W1 D0 L1

Semi-Final

Arsenal: W1 D1 L0

Man United: W1 D0 L1

Final

Arsenal: W1 D0 L0

Man United: W0 D0 L1

Overall Performance

Arsenal: W9 D4 L0

Man United: W9 D0 L4

Now since we are both from the EPL and share the same League Coefficients, the difference in our Club Coefficients should thus be solely down to our performances in the Champion's League.

We both participated in the Group Stages and made it all the way to the Finals, so we should get the same points for those achievements.

Results-wise as you can see, I had 9 wins and 4 draws, while they had 9 wins and 4 losses. So you would think that my team would thus edge Man United's in the overall Club Coefficient ranking.

Why then, did Arsenal only receive a coefficient of 36.590, whereas Man United receive a coefficient of 40.590? I am puzzled as to where those extra 4 points could come from. If anything, my team should get those extra 4 points since both teams picked up 9 wins in total, but my team achieved 4 draws to their 0.

Can anyone please help and point out anything that I had missed in my examination of this? Much appreciated!

Did Man United have the top goalscorer in the Premier League?

This adds to it, I believe.

That should not have any impact. Did United play and qualifying matches in the Champions League?

Did Man United have the top goalscorer in the Premier League?

This adds to it, I believe.

They do in fact.

For the 2009/2010 CL Golden Boot award, the first three places are as follows:

First: 8 Goals - Wayne Rooney (Man United)

Second: 7 Goals - Eduardo (Arsenal)

Third: 6 Goals - Pato (Milan)

And if this is relevant as well, the 2009/2010 CL Best Player Award is as follows:

First: Gonzalo Higuain (Arsenal)

Second: Cristiano Ronaldo (Man United)

Third: Wayne Rooney (Man United)

However, I thought only the club performances are factored into the coefficients. There is no mention of personal performances in the UEFA Coefficients FAQ (http://www.uefa.com/uefa/faq/index.html)

Yeah it is club performances only. That is why I wondered have they played in the qualifiers?

That should not have any impact. Did United play and qualifying matches in the Champions League?

This they did too.

Their performance in the Third Qualifying Round of 2009/2010 was 1 win and 1 draw.

However it is to my understanding that a club's performance in the Qualifying Rounds of European competitions is only factored into the League Coefficients, therefore both our teams should reap the same benefits from however well they perform?

Quoted from the UEFA Coefficients FAQ:

"Qualifying round results are taken into account only for the calculation of the association’s coefficient."

ino this sounds stupid but how do you start a post

ino this sounds stupid but how do you start a post

If you mean start your own thread, what you do is click on the "New Thread" buttons when you are in the main forums. Those buttons are in the same place as the "Post Reply" buttons you had clicked on to post your reply in this thread.

I said further up it just based on how many matches yo win draw in Europe etc. Just because one Italian team got to the final, maybe 3 English teams got to the semi's. An Italian team getting to the final is not the whole picture.

Ok, the finals go like this:

10/11 - Arsenal beat Milan

09/10 - Juventus beat Arsenal

08/09 - Milan beat Chelsea

07/08 - Milan beat Inter

Inter made at least one CL semi, but finished bottom of their group last season. In the UEFA cup Spain have two winners, one runner up but have done sod all in the CL. Also Fiorentina were runners up one season, as were Man Yoo and Chelsea won it once. Liverpool have never been past the CL QF, currently Sunderland and Everton are flying the flag for England in the CL with their fantastic pedigree.

Ok, the finals go like this:

10/11 - Arsenal beat Milan

09/10 - Juventus beat Arsenal

08/09 - Milan beat Chelsea

07/08 - Milan beat Inter

Inter made at least one CL semi, but finished bottom of their group last season. In the UEFA cup Spain have two winners, one runner up but have done sod all in the CL. Also Fiorentina were runners up one season, as were Man Yoo and Chelsea won it once. Liverpool have never been past the CL QF, currently Sunderland and Everton are flying the flag for England in the CL with their fantastic pedigree.

AC Milan didn't beat Inter in the final of last season.

Milan aren't in the Champions League this season.

Are you playing FM08? You cannot be playing FM09...

Ter, able to help me with my query in this same thread please? I am really stumped by the seeming discrepancy of the Club Coefficients issued.

It's calculated over a five year period and you get points for competing in the Champions Cup or EURO Cup. With Juventus not competing in Europe for two seasons then there are going to be at least eight teams who have performed consistently well enough to have more points and ensure you can't get near Pot 1 in the seedings.

A team could come from nowhere (like CFR Cluj this season) and win the Champions League and they would still struggle to get out of Pot 4 the following season.

Having said that i was in the top pot the season after i won it, which was also why it was a shock not to be in the top pot this time round too. And yes, I'd like to know the answer to idiocy's problem too.

Having said that i was in the top pot the season after i won it, which was also why it was a shock not to be in the top pot this time round too. And yes, I'd like to know the answer to idiocy's problem too.

LOL, It's ediocy.

And the winner of the tournament is always 1st pot the following year.

Unless you constantly win it, you can drop the year later.

Before last season's Champions League, Man United weren't the highest seeded team, but because they won, they automatically jumped to first, I believe.

LOL, It's ediocy.

And the winner of the tournament is always 1st pot the following year.

Unless you constantly win it, you can drop the year later.

Before last season's Champions League, Man United weren't the highest seeded team, but because they won, they automatically jumped to first, I believe.

Well phonetically-wise it is indeed "Idiocy" as I meant it as a laugh at myself (Ed) so no bother to me at all that IbrahimAliMaher wrote it as that.

And winning the previous season's CL does not automatically bump you up to top seed in the overall 5-year coefficient ranking, much less that of the previous season's. Depending on the performances throughout that season, the CL winner might rightfully post a lower coefficient than say a runner's up or a semi-finalist. Just that in the case I brought up, it seems wrong that my winning team got a lower coefficient when their season-long performance had been better.

Well phonetically-wise it is indeed "Idiocy" so no bother to me at all that IbrahimAliMaher wrote it as that.

And winning the previous season's CL does not automatically bump you up to top seed in the overall 5-year coefficient ranking, much less that of the previous season's. Depending on the performances throughout that season, the CL winner might rightfully post a lower coefficient than say a runner's up or a semi-finalist. Just that in the case I brought up, it seems wrong that my winning team got a lower coefficient when their season-long performance had been better.

Your co-efficient doesn't appear to be bigger, but aren't you placed at the top of the co-efficients list?

Your co-efficient doesn't appear to be bigger, but aren't you placed at the top of the co-efficients list?

The overall coefficients ranking take into account the last 5 years' coefficients as what Ter and others have mentioned.

So even after winning the previous season's CL as I had done, my team is nowhere near the top spot since the four seasons before last, my team had not been as consistently good. And that is the point of making the rankings based on a 5-year spread. It rewards consistency and discourages teams that make one-off freak cup runs from being top seeds.

LOL, It's ediocy.

And the winner of the tournament is always 1st pot the following year.

Unless you constantly win it, you can drop the year later.

Before last season's Champions League, Man United weren't the highest seeded team, but because they won, they automatically jumped to first, I believe.

All I can say is - ooops!

IIRC ManUre were knocked out in the semis by Milan the year before and their group had Roma from pot 2 last season, so they must've been high up anyway. i guess it must have something to do with the previous years placing being weighted more than the other four years.

Chelsea only made it to the top pot this season (I think), after all their successes.

All their previous years, they languished in the second pot.

Hmm, reading this reminded me of a question I had when I saw the Club Coefficients of my save's 2009/2010 season. Sorry to hijack the thread but I'll post it here since it is relevant to seeding and might be related to the original poster's query.

I am playing as Arsenal in that save and had won Manchester United in the 2009/2010 Champion's League Final.

Our CL playing records are as follows:

Group Stages

Arsenal: W4 D2 L0

Man United: W5 D0 L1

First Knockout Round

Arsenal: W2 D0 L0

Man United: W2 D0 L0

Quarter-Final

Arsenal: W1 D1 L0

Man United: W1 D0 L1

Semi-Final

Arsenal: W1 D1 L0

Man United: W1 D0 L1

Final

Arsenal: W1 D0 L0

Man United: W0 D0 L1

Overall Performance

Arsenal: W9 D4 L0

Man United: W9 D0 L4

Now since we are both from the EPL and share the same League Coefficients, the difference in our Club Coefficients should thus be solely down to our performances in the Champion's League.

We both participated in the Group Stages and made it all the way to the Finals, so we should get the same points for those achievements.

Results-wise as you can see, I had 9 wins and 4 draws, while they had 9 wins and 4 losses. So you would think that my team would thus edge Man United's in the overall Club Coefficient ranking.

Why then, did Arsenal only receive a coefficient of 36.590, whereas Man United receive a coefficient of 40.590? I am puzzled as to where those extra 4 points could come from. If anything, my team should get those extra 4 points since both teams picked up 9 wins in total, but my team achieved 4 draws to their 0.

Can anyone please help and point out anything that I had missed in my examination of this? Much appreciated!

No one else can help me on this? Some clarification from people in the know about UEFA coefficients would be great!

Ediocy: Could it be that 5 years ago Arsenal went a long way in the CL, whilst Man Utd did not do so well. Thus Arsenal are replacing a good season with a better one while Utd are replacing a bad one.

Ediocy: Could it be that 5 years ago Arsenal went a long way in the CL, whilst Man Utd did not do so well. Thus Arsenal are replacing a good season with a better one while Utd are replacing a bad one.

I am questioning the coefficients awarded for a single season, specifically that of 2009/2010, not the entire 5 year total coefficients that are used for the ranking.

I am questioning the coefficients awarded for a single season, specifically that of 2009/2010, not the entire 5 year total coefficients that are used for the ranking.

Ah fair enough, I thought you meant that the coefficients overall had gone up 36 for Arsenal. Not sure then, sorry.

I think it could also depend on the teams you beat as well. (Not entirely sure)

Perhaps you beat someone like Porto (example) on the way to the final, while Man U beat, say, Barcelona.

I think it could also depend on the teams you beat as well. (Not entirely sure)

Perhaps you beat someone like Porto (example) on the way to the final, while Man U beat, say, Barcelona.

That does not have any influence on the points given as far as I know. There is no mention of that in the FIFA regulations, just 2 points for a win and 1 point for a draw for the games in the main stages of European competitions.

Ah fair enough, I thought you meant that the coefficients overall had gone up 36 for Arsenal. Not sure then, sorry.

No worries mate.

I am quite sure the coefficients are a lot more complicated than that, rather than simply 2 points for a win and 1 for a draw.

You can read more about them on this excellent website

Ter, I am afraid you missed my point. I had read up on how the coefficients are calculated directly from the UEFA website, but that still does not explain the discrepancy I faced with the coefficients handed out to me ingame.

For comparison, let us look at last year's real-life Champions League's coefficients from that website you linked.

2007/2008 Champions League (In real-life)

Manchester United's Coefficient = 34.8985 points

Chelsea's Coefficient = 30.8985 points

Difference = 4 points (in favour of Man United)

taken from http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/tcoef2008.html

Since both finalists, Man United and Chelsea, are from the EPL, just like in my case, they both share the same League Coefficient and thus the difference of 4 points can be solely attributed to match performance.

Group Stage

Chelsea: W3 D3 L0

Man United: W5 D1 L0

First Knockout Round

Chelsea: W1 D1 L0

Man United: W1 D1 L0

Quarter-Final

Chelsea: W1 D0 L1

Man United: W1 D0 L1

Semi-Final

Chelsea: W1 D1 L0

Man United: W1 D1 L0

Final

Chelsea: W0 D0 L1

Man United: W1 D0 L0

results taken from http://www.betexplorer.com/soccer/international/champions-league-2007-2008/

Overall Performance

Chelsea: W6 D5 L2 = ( 6 x 2 ) + ( 5 x 1 ) = 12 + 5 = 17 performance points

Man United: W9 D3 L1 = ( 9 x 2 ) + ( 3 x 1 ) = 18 + 3 = 21 performance points

So, 21 - 17 = 4 points, which allows us to arrive at the correct difference in 2007/2008 coefficients UEFA handed out to Manchester United and Chelsea.

My question thus is, why is this not replicated ingame for me? My team should have 4 points over Man United based on the fact that we both had 9 wins overall, but I had 4 draws while Man United had 0.

If it's not replicated that way in-game then it should be and is something that should be raised in the bugs forum

Guess I will raise in there then, thanks Ter. I was initially looking for some affirmation that there is indeed something suspect with the calculations made ingame with regards to my example raised. However yes, the more I look at it, the more suspicious I am of whether it is a bug.

Update from the Bugs Forum for anyone that might have been following this:

Thanks for the information.

European Club co-efficients will be improved and made more realistic in the next Patch that we release.

Great to hear!

I am quite sure the coefficients are a lot more complicated than that, rather than simply 2 points for a win and 1 for a draw.

It is not. It is that simple. The only slight differences is that in qualifying rounds, it is 1 point for a win and 0.5 for a draw. There is also some bonus points like I think 3 for example for reaching the group stages of the champions league.