Potentially controversial suggestion for new feature

Hi, I've been playing FM/CM for around 7 years, I generally like to take charge of a team in a lower division and try make my way to the premiership, I like my game to be realistic, but obviously taking a league two team to the premiership title and the champions league final is not really that realistic, so by realistic I mean excluding the team I am managing, the football world that my team inhabits I like to be realistic, at present I'm playing FM08 and it is 2011, Man Utd are really struggling, they are seriously in debt and are reduced to playing their reserve players, whilst I understand that the fianancial model in FM08 is correct, it still takes away from the 'realism' that a club which could arguably be considered the most popular team in the world is now facing potential relegation, I want to be competing with the usual suspects for the title, Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, regardless of the fact that it is 2011, the 'realism' I want, and which I reckon most players would agree, is the current status quo in the real football world. So my suggestion is that a save game editor be either included with FM09 or be made available via SI (I realize there are save game editors available for PC, I use a Mac, and from my memory of being a PC user they are unreliable and can corrupt your save game), the controversial suggestion I mention in the thread title is that this save game editor have functions to

1) Force transfer players from one AI team to another. My reason for this is, and I'm confident others will agree, whilst playing the game, the real world of football veers from the database once you load up the game and begin playing, I would like to force the AI so that Man Utd buy Berbatov, Arsenal buy Ramsey etc, so that the football world I inhabit on FM will be closer to the real world.

2) As with most save game editors, be able to change the attributes of players, as above, Ramsey is terrible in the database, and as the real football season progresses players ability's change and perhaps you want that to be reflected in your game

3) Force the AI to change Managers, same as players, I reckon most of us would like the simulated football world to be as close to the real one, especially when the current AI sacks a well known manager and brings in somebody that is not realistic (obviously opinions will differ as to what constitutes realistic, but at present in my game the names being linked to the top jobs in England are Tony Mowbray, Dave Jones and Adie Boothroyd)

4) Force a board takeover, so that I could make Man City ridiculously wealthy or any other future clubs that strike it lucky.

I understand a lot of people will just see this as a way to cheat and make all your own players fantastic, club wealthy etc, but I am suggesting it as an option, just like the existing data editor but one that once your playing you can make changes that reflect the real world, for me it makes the simulated world more interesting when it closely follows the real one, who amongst you have not felt irate lately when Crouch sticks in a brace against you for Liverpool, and your incredulous...... 'he don't even play for fooking Liverpool', etc, etc, or when Sam Allardyce takes over the England team, or something of that ilk, again people play the game in different ways, and thats great, but I really believe that a feature like this would be well appreciated by a lot of players. I have often saved the game before a AI match , specifically so that one AI team will beat another, purely to either a) save a managers job or b) to reflect the present football world, when I was playing in league one, I must have replayed numerous games so that Benitez would stay in a job, it had no positive affect on my team I was down in league one, I just did it so that when I get to the premiership it will be a recognisable landscape, I don't call that cheating, forcing reality onto artificial intelligence and algorithms

While I'm at it, another suggestion I have concerns the AI's ability to know the CA and PA of players, for instance, in my present game Preston are a premiership outfit, their two main strikers are Billy Sharp and Florent Sinama-Pongolle, both score for fun, last season they both got 20 league goals, in fact here is a screen of Pongolle's history

likewise Sharp's history

Now in reality if the AI was looking for players based on their performance (like I'm sure real scouts in the real world do) There is no way these two would still be battling relegation with preston every season, but there hasn't been a single enquiry or rumour about either, because their CA and PA are not all that good, now on the other hand, I (Cheat you say) edited 4 16-year olds to become the backbone of my team along the lines of United Beckham, Scholes, Butt, Nevilles, (it's my fantasy world so don't judge!) And before these kids even kicked a ball, I had every top club sniffing about, even continental clubs, the reason being, the AI knows the CA and PA of the players, my suggestion is that the AI should be set up so that it scouts players just like we have to, and if a player with CA of 90 and a PA of 185 plays crap for your reserves then the AI will report back to it's AI manager that the player is no good, and likewise in Bobby Zamora fashion if a ordinary player bangs in a shed load of goals there should be the inevitable interest, I mean Arsenal did buy Francis Jeffers!

Anyhow I'd like to see what you guys reckon

I think you're missing the point of the game...

Your saved game is your own footballing world. It doesn't matter if it's different to the real world. You'll never get a game that mimics the real world exactly -- plus, in my opinion, it would be boring if every game of FM had the same results and history of real life.

I can understand your passion for a true-to-life game, but it strikes me that you're spending so much time replaying matches so managers don't get sacked and transfers happen correctly that it affects your enjoyment of the core game -- your team. Yes, Crouch isn't at Liverpool anymore in real life, but in your saved game Liverpool happened to not sell him. That's the game. Yes Benitez or Wenger or Capello or Schuster might get sacked on your game, but that's what makes it interesting. It's a huge database of variables -- it will drive you crazy trying to control it.

However, on your second point about AI buying players based on their record, I absolutely agree. Players scoring goals for fun should definitely be attracting big clubs, regardless of their ability stats on the database. I didn't realise that AI clubs based their transfer decisions on those stats so much. I thought they scouted players like we do AND used the stats. If anyone can shed some light on this, then please do.

Anyway, despite disagreeing with your first point, the game is there for you to play however you like. It seems mad to me to replay matches to keep the game like real life, but it's your choice and who am I to tell you otherwise?

Thanks for your input, I was suggesting this as an option, akin to the 'use real players' or the option to use randomly named players, just another editor, the existing editor is an option, and each has their own unique idea of what enjoying playing the game is and will either use the editors available or not, I do however think that this would be a good function, I'm sure people when it gets to January will download a data update, all the new transfers etc, so whats the difference, basically the difference is you can force these transfers on the AI in your existing game, rather than starting all over again. Your right that you won't get the game to mimic real life, and perhaps I came across as if I am an obsessive compulsive, constantly reloading the game until a result comes out the way I want it to, which isn't the case, but sometimes I would do this and I'm sure I'm not alone, I don't try to mimic reality exactly, but rather loosely resemble reality. I've never played the game with random names rather than real player names, which would be the purest form of '....the point of the game' which I'm missing, but I'm fairly certain very few people play with the random names, because people love FM because of it's attention to detail and how it closely resembles real life football. But again as you say, that's the beauty of it, you can play it any way you want

I understand the argument of it being optional but unless you play the game at such a slow rate as to be playing alongside the real life seasons then i see no point in being able to add transfers etc during the save game.

Much like your first reply I find your way of playing somewhat strange but hey who am I to knock it. I do however have a suggestion for you.

Every year i get the game and start 3 games. One with my favoured club, as i assume most people do and try to get them to the top. A Second, My Career, where I start unemployed and I try to get to the top (This is the one which I will play until FM10). The third is the one i draw your attention to.

This one I pick a team usually in the second tier so I have a seasons time to make changes to staff and players youth structure etc. I pick a club that I think best fullfills what my target playing style and system might be when my career gets to this point. I generally get quickly to the top tier one or two years later and there is my top tier game in a current 'real-world' climate. A few transfers here and there but more or less the same. I personally have different reasons for this. For me its the game i play first, evalluate the changes in the game from last year, how they affect me and what i might need to do differently. As its the games nearest it will be to the real world it gives me something to compare notes with. maybe thats the game your looking for I don't know.

I would suggest that you play a long game and go with the flow. Don't try to force the logic of the game. For me the whole beauty of it is that as time moves on so does the game. You know less and less about the world so it becomes more up to managerial quality of you within the game and less on that stock of young players you know all about from the real world. You, like real world managers have to rely on good staff to fulfill the whole left when sky sports news and match of the day are no longer relevant to the game world. Everything at that point becomes a lot more rewarding in my opinion. Maybe you'd find that too.

I dont like ideas at all but thats just my opinion. Yes they can be implemented and be optional but there are many other features which could be implemented which are better so I would rather have those.

I don't like this idea. Most people will just use it to make their team better.

Anyway, as FMR says, half the fun of the game is seeing it gradually change from real life. Sometimes Man United finish mid table and begin to slip, other times they dominate. Things like that can be very interesting, and changing everything wouldn't be as interesting.

i dont like ideas at all but thats just my opinion. Yes they can be implemented and be optional but there are many other features which could be implemented which are better so i would rather have those.

whs.......

I dont agree with anything you said lol, frankly the fact that you make you're own way and the other managers change etc is why i enjoy the game. If Man Utd came 3 or 4th a couple of seasons in a row or Ferguson left things could go down quickly. You only have to look at Leeds to prove that! If it was the same as RL wouldn't you have to play the games when there are real life games? I mean you wouldn't be able to exceed the current season would you???...

The only thing i agree with is judging the players on form instead of ca/pa. Which is an extremely valid point along with my Gripe about players not wanting to move clubs even if it includes a higher amount of money and first team football just because of the reputation system!

So I gather nobody thinks a SI produced save game editor is a good idea , but to clarify, at the moment I'm losing interest in my current game (it's 2013), the main reason I'm losing interest is that their are Mexicans at 3 clubs, Portsmouth are under Hugo Sanchez (slightly credible), Tottenham under Jose Manuel de la Torre (not credible) and best of all, Arsene Wengerleft Arsenal after his contract ran out and took over Inter, so the Arsenal board turn of course to Mexico, the Mexico under 21's coach Jesus Ramirez, who better than Jesus to run who at present are the omnipotent team (and Jesus didn't even think that managing such a high profile team might mean it would be good idea to quit as Mexico's under 21's coach, but he apparently reckons he can divide his time between London and Mexico City) , Steve Coppell also heard the Nation's call and left championship strugglers Reading to take over Englands world cup campaign, along with Man Utd being the equivalent of Fulham the game just loses credibility, which makes it uninteresting to play, for me anyhow, I think it would be good to have the ability if one so desired to change a few details so that I can continue a game I've spent days playing (I mean that in game time like 8 days worth)......anyways I did say it would be a controversial suggestion

There aren't honestly many English managers better than Coppell, are there? In real life he'd turn it down, but I can see why the game would make him manager.

There aren't honestly many English managers better than Coppell, are there? In real life he'd turn it down, but I can see why the game would make him manager.

That maybe so, but after McClaren, I was of the understanding that the FA are only going to appoint managers with a recognised history at the top level, ie. Foreigners:)

That maybe so, but after McClaren, I was of the understanding that the FA are only going to appoint managers with a recognised history at the top level, ie. Foreigners:)

This might be a diversion from the main topic but there is a recurring trend that has been happening for the past decade. A lack of English managers lead the FA to appoint the popular Kevin Keegan in succession of Glenn "Karma" Hoddle as caretaker since they could not find enough quality English managers. Keegan back then, mind you, was only managing Fulham in the third tier with Al Fayed's money. Keegan wins a couple of games, the FA thinks maybe there is an English manager afterall, and appoints him.

Keegan quits after dismal failure at Euro2000. No recognisable englishman in sight, so they have no choice but to appoint a foreigner and in came the Swede (Rumours were that Capello was pretty close to getting it back then too). Deep down, they really wanted a half decent English manager if he existed.

Sven quits, and England did not suffer dismal failure, so the call for the foreigner when they appointed Sven was not as great, plus you have two reasonably successful Englishmen with small clubs in McClaren (lost UEFA Cup final 4-0 but nevertheless was reasonably successful with Boro) and longball Sam. To be honest, Scolari was in the running then, but with the choice of two Englishmen who had a little bit of success and England being reasonably successful under Sven, they appointed McClaren.

Dismal failure again. Fails to qualify for Euro2008. Calls for a foreigner are loud and clear again. Therefore, the appointment of Capello.

It seems to be that England in the past decade or so never had a top class successful English manager. However, the foreigner always came when the English managed to fail terribly and thus the need to learn from the rest of the world. When things are ok, an half decent Englishman would be appointed because national pride takes over.

I can see an Englishman after Capello, probably Pearce seeing they are grooming him (remember his Man City sides that could not buy a goal at home for like months), whether he fails or not. If he succeeds, then the need to appoint another foreigner would not be so great. If he fails, then I could see people saying a local could do a job (remember Scotland after Berti Vogts). However, seeing that no decent Englishman can possibly emerge as the big 4 would be reluctant to appoint them, as well as a Milan or Real Madrid, I believe from now on, half decent Englishmen would forever be appointed, fail terribly and a foreigner would succeed them.

Ben82, this is completely off-topic. Please use the football forum instead.

1 post is probably alright, but let's not go off on a tangent.

Now I think about it, a SI save game editor might not be such a bad idea. There's already FMM, why not have one which is less risky and probably easier to use?

Would you rather SI focused several months of development effort on this editor, or several months on some of the other aspects of the game which we all want to see improved?

SI should release more info about the save game format so that 3rd parties can make a save game editor. There is none currently for this very reason. Only 3rd party application that accesses the save game is Genie Scout, the others just do it through memory which is easier then reading the save game but isnt really safe TBH and will never be able to be as advanced as something which reads the save game.

Hi, I've been playing FM/CM for around 7 years, I generally like to take charge of a team in a lower division and try make my way to the premiership, I like my game to be realistic, but obviously taking a league two team to the premiership title and the champions league final is not really that realistic, so by realistic I mean excluding the team I am managing, the football world that my team inhabits I like to be realistic, at present I'm playing FM08 and it is 2011, Man Utd are really struggling, they are seriously in debt and are reduced to playing their reserve players, whilst I understand that the fianancial model in FM08 is correct, it still takes away from the 'realism' that a club which could arguably be considered the most popular team in the world is now facing potential relegation, I want to be competing with the usual suspects for the title, Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, regardless of the fact that it is 2011, the 'realism' I want, and which I reckon most players would agree, is the current status quo in the real football world. So my suggestion is that a save game editor be either included with FM09 or be made available via SI (I realize there are save game editors available for PC, I use a Mac, and from my memory of being a PC user they are unreliable and can corrupt your save game), the controversial suggestion I mention in the thread title is that this save game editor have functions to

1) Force transfer players from one AI team to another. My reason for this is, and I'm confident others will agree, whilst playing the game, the real world of football veers from the database once you load up the game and begin playing, I would like to force the AI so that Man Utd buy Berbatov, Arsenal buy Ramsey etc, so that the football world I inhabit on FM will be closer to the real world.

2) As with most save game editors, be able to change the attributes of players, as above, Ramsey is terrible in the database, and as the real football season progresses players ability's change and perhaps you want that to be reflected in your game

3) Force the AI to change Managers, same as players, I reckon most of us would like the simulated football world to be as close to the real one, especially when the current AI sacks a well known manager and brings in somebody that is not realistic (obviously opinions will differ as to what constitutes realistic, but at present in my game the names being linked to the top jobs in England are Tony Mowbray, Dave Jones and Adie Boothroyd)

4) Force a board takeover, so that I could make Man City ridiculously wealthy or any other future clubs that strike it lucky.

I understand a lot of people will just see this as a way to cheat and make all your own players fantastic, club wealthy etc, but I am suggesting it as an option, just like the existing data editor but one that once your playing you can make changes that reflect the real world, for me it makes the simulated world more interesting when it closely follows the real one, who amongst you have not felt irate lately when Crouch sticks in a brace against you for Liverpool, and your incredulous...... 'he don't even play for fooking Liverpool', etc, etc, or when Sam Allardyce takes over the England team, or something of that ilk, again people play the game in different ways, and thats great, but I really believe that a feature like this would be well appreciated by a lot of players. I have often saved the game before a AI match , specifically so that one AI team will beat another, purely to either a) save a managers job or b) to reflect the present football world, when I was playing in league one, I must have replayed numerous games so that Benitez would stay in a job, it had no positive affect on my team I was down in league one, I just did it so that when I get to the premiership it will be a recognisable landscape, I don't call that cheating, forcing reality onto artificial intelligence and algorithms

While I'm at it, another suggestion I have concerns the AI's ability to know the CA and PA of players, for instance, in my present game Preston are a premiership outfit, their two main strikers are Billy Sharp and Florent Sinama-Pongolle, both score for fun, last season they both got 20 league goals, in fact here is a screen of Pongolle's history

likewise Sharp's history

Now in reality if the AI was looking for players based on their performance (like I'm sure real scouts in the real world do) There is no way these two would still be battling relegation with preston every season, but there hasn't been a single enquiry or rumour about either, because their CA and PA are not all that good, now on the other hand, I (Cheat you say) edited 4 16-year olds to become the backbone of my team along the lines of United Beckham, Scholes, Butt, Nevilles, (it's my fantasy world so don't judge!) And before these kids even kicked a ball, I had every top club sniffing about, even continental clubs, the reason being, the AI knows the CA and PA of the players, my suggestion is that the AI should be set up so that it scouts players just like we have to, and if a player with CA of 90 and a PA of 185 plays crap for your reserves then the AI will report back to it's AI manager that the player is no good, and likewise in Bobby Zamora fashion if a ordinary player bangs in a shed load of goals there should be the inevitable interest, I mean Arsenal did buy Francis Jeffers!

Anyhow I'd like to see what you guys reckon

just because players bang the goals in does not mean they are good players that bigger teams would be after i am a rangers fan so i should know what i am talking about ie kris boyd pish player but great goalscorer that is all he can do they only time he can get the ball is in the box when it lands at his feet.

Would you rather SI focused several months of development effort on this editor, or several months on some of the other aspects of the game which we all want to see improved?

Although I know next to nothing about programming, I would think making the existing pre-game editor able to load up save game files as well as the db files would take up a programmer's lunch hour perhaps...... certainly not months, although again maybe I'm wrong. I did write a program that converted currency to set exchange rates back in college ......... it never worked though

I absolutely agree with your final point about AI taking interest in players purely based on their CA/PA, regardless of form.

Current performance has much more of an impact In the Real World (for scouts) than PA.

Seeing as Real scouts CAN'T SEE PA, they can only see CA, and this factor is based on Current Performance alone.