Should I Loan This Young Player?

[Weston]

No matter how many years I play this game I'm still not fully confident in my understanding of the trade-off between loaning a young player for more playing time, or keeping them at the club to micromanage their training/mentoring.

Take this player, for example:

 

I signed him a season and a half ago, but even though he is an Italian dual national, he was not allowed by the Brazilian league to join me until turning 18. He seems very promising, so I want to make sure I get this right. For context, we just won the domestic double in Serie A.

I typically have a big squad - for the 4 midfield positions in my 4-1-2-1-2 narrow formation I usually have 8 players, an A and B lineup I rotate fairly frequently, with a 9th as an emergency backup who doesn't play unless someone is injured. So if he was on the bench he would get playing time, but he's not good enough to be on the bench, so he would probably be the 9th midfielder at best. So should I:

- loan him out for consistent playing time somewhere else with good training facilities

- keep him in the first team, mentor him, give him the occasional appearance

- keep him in the first team, mentor him, set him as available for the U20s, give him the occasional appearance

- keep him in the U20s, maybe give him the occasional appearance

For reference, here is how it went when I tried to do the same thing with a promising young CB. He was the 5th choice CB, so I had 2 in the A lineup and 2 in the B lineup, and he filled in when we needed to rotate while someone was injured or suspended. I loaned him out the first two years and then put him in the first team but set as available for the U20s. He was in a mentoring group this year.

 

My gut instinct tells me that starting for La Liga's 5th place Real Betis and playing in the CL for them was better than playing in the Italian U20s with a few sub appearances in Serie A, but so many on this forum seem so convinced that loaning a player is a waste. What do you guys think?

Edited September 6, 2020 by Weston

[Prokopije]

In those situations I prefer to loan my players. I look for a good club with good staff and always have "can be recalled" clause in case of some nasty injury so that he can be treated in my medical fascilities. But I'm not sure If I'm doing right thing 

[Weston]

18 minutes ago, Prokopije said:

In those situations I prefer to loan my players. I look for a good club with good staff and always have "can be recalled" clause in case of some nasty injury so that he can be treated in my medical fascilities. But I'm not sure If I'm doing right thing 

Yes I always require they be first choice or above, I always add the recall clause, and I will sometimes even require they be played in a certain position. I usually send them to the club with the best training facilities, but I've found it hard to make judgements based on coaching staff because every club has so few (I have 15 first team coaches).

[mightypvfc]

First team football will always trump U-20 football for a number of reasons. The competitive nature of first-team football is unique. Also, the ability to learn from more experienced players while picking up regular playing time will be beneficial for the player. Of course, there's always a greater risk that he'll pick up a nasty, recurring injury that could hinder his potential. 

I'd loan him out for a season with a recall. 

[Sherkey]

Loaning players out definitely works better.

Try and go for clubs with facilities "Superb" and above (Training facilities). Also, First Team Regular and above, otherwise it doesn't make sense.

Oh, and additionally, also take a peek at how the team you're loaning a player out to plays - whether they use a similar formation/positions and whether they are stacked in those positions. If they play similar positions, then your player won't waste unnecessary ability points trying to learn a new one. (This happened to me when my promising left winger went to a club on loan, and they played him as a RB, so much so he became a natural in that position).

Additionally, if they are stacked wit better players in that position (look at their squad status'), then your player will likely not get that much game time. So, that should be a factor.

[Weston]

26 minutes ago, Sherkey said:

Loaning players out definitely works better.

Try and go for clubs with facilities "Superb" and above (Training facilities). Also, First Team Regular and above, otherwise it doesn't make sense.

Oh, and additionally, also take a peek at how the team you're loaning a player out to plays - whether they use a similar formation/positions and whether they are stacked in those positions. If they play similar positions, then your player won't waste unnecessary ability points trying to learn a new one. (This happened to me when my promising left winger went to a club on loan, and they played him as a RB, so much so he became a natural in that position).

Additionally, if they are stacked wit better players in that position (look at their squad status'), then your player will likely not get that much game time. So, that should be a factor.

That all makes sense and I agree - I feel confident in determining which loans are best and getting the most out of them, I guess what still gives me pause is the line of argument many on here have that keeping players at your club can exceed the benefits of loaning if you somehow squeeze so much into training and mentoring, but I don't see how I could in this case.

[Sherkey]

1 hour ago, Weston said:

That all makes sense and I agree - I feel confident in determining which loans are best and getting the most out of them, I guess what still gives me pause is the line of argument many on here have that keeping players at your club can exceed the benefits of loaning if you somehow squeeze so much into training and mentoring, but I don't see how I could in this case.

That depends. If you are giving them first team football, then yes. Alternately, if you are loaning them out to lower league sides (with lesser facilities), then yeah, makes more sense to keep the player in the U23's with a little game time. Loaning him out to a top division with good facilities (with consistent game time) however, is definitely a better option than keeping him in the U23s. The level of play increases, and naturally, the players develop more on good loans.

[Weston]

Well, he's joined, and despite offering him for loan for free - no wage contribution or fee - no one will offer or even show interest at all. This is despite him having an EU passport, "operating at Serie A level," being young enough to not need a registration spot, and being open to speaking with other clubs. This is another thing that really needs to be fixed in FM21 - sometimes loan offers just seem completely cut off from reality...

[Verby]

I do not have any problems loaning out my Wonderkids. I even can blag 500k a month fee off some clubs. Make sure you are offering them for loan regularly during the transfer window. Sometimes I offer out a wonderkid for loan and no bites, then two days later I do it again during the window and get 4 offers, I then accept one of the four offers then offer out again and get even more offers.

Recently got Millwall to Loan my 18 year old Wonderkid for a 5m season fee.

Edited September 7, 2020 by Verby

[Weston]

37 minutes ago, Verby said:

I do not have any problems loaning out my Wonderkids. I even can blag 500k a month fee off some clubs. Make sure you are offering them for loan regularly during the transfer window. Sometimes I offer out a wonderkid for loan and no bites, then two days later I do it again during the window and get 4 offers, I then accept one of the four offers then offer out again and get even more offers.

Recently got Millwall to Loan my 18 year old Wonderkid for a 5m season fee.

That's the thing, I can too, I've gotten 5mil in fees off single loans before. But then sometimes... nothing. There is no reason why clubs shouldn't bid for a player that would cost them nothing, not even a registration spot, when he's willing to talk.

[Weston]

I suppose I could send him to an affiliate, but since FM has never allowed anyone to pick a proper affiliate in the history of the game, the best fit my board has provided is second tier Frosinone, and it seems like a waste to send him out if he's not in a proper league (Napoli are too good to play him enough).

[Verby]

Just keep him for now, if I were you, I would just play him ahead of the other fringe players you have if you really want to give him the best chance

[Weston]

1 hour ago, Verby said:

Just keep him for now, if I were you, I would just play him ahead of the other fringe players you have if you really want to give him the best chance

I eventually got an inbox message listing several clubs that are interested but refusing to offer because they don't think the player is interested, even though none of them show up in the transfer window and it says the player is open to listening 

Seems like the same bug again, so I'll probably just use the editor to move him to one of the clubs that that one message said is interested.

[Verby]

Ok @Weston, I think I am getting this annoying bug now? Both of these are, 3 Star Current ability and 5 star Potential. Good enough stats for teams like Inter and Spurs, Juve and Roma to be interested but they just wont make the offer to Loan them because he doesnt have interest in joining them? They are 18 and 19 years old respectively. Both are Left Backs so really wanted to move one out on Loan 

I am offering them out with no fee, no wage contribution and not asking for any squad status

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by Verby

[Weston]

15 minutes ago, Verby said:

Ok @Weston, I think I am getting this annoying bug now? Both of these are, 3 Star Current ability and 5 star Potential. Good enough stats for teams like Inter and Spurs, Juve and Roma to be interested but they just wont make the offer to Loan them because he doesnt have interest in joining them? They are 18 and 19 years old respectively.

I am offering them out with no fee, no wage contribution and not asking for any squad status

 

Yep. If you offer the player out for loan and it says on the left that the player is willing to talk to clubs, then those clubs not offering or even showing up as interested on the transfer window is 100% unrealistic. Several times I've had no choice but to use the editor to move the player on loan to one of the clubs listed in the inbox message as interested. But since it doesn't tell you what squad status they'd be given, sometimes you have to try a few to get the ones that would've said "regular starter" or above had their offers come in as they should've.

[fivetwelvepony]

A recent Rashidi post made me rethink things. Tell me if you remember this too. He says he doesn't loan until the player is 18. Even then, the top two or three prospects he keeps with his first team, and gives them about 15 first-team games per season, mostly sub appearances. The rest of the over 18 prospects who aren't ready for the first team he loans out. I found this interesting, because in the past I focused on loaning out my most promising players. Now I'm trying to keep them at the club. Who knows if this is right. My favorite youngsters haven't developed as I hoped, regardless what I do. 

[Weston]

1 hour ago, fivetwelvepony said:

A recent Rashidi post made me rethink things. Tell me if you remember this too. He says he doesn't loan until the player is 18. Even then, the top two or three prospects he keeps with his first team, and gives them about 15 first-team games per season, mostly sub appearances. The rest of the over 18 prospects who aren't ready for the first team he loans out. I found this interesting, because in the past I focused on loaning out my most promising players. Now I'm trying to keep them at the club. Who knows if this is right. My favorite youngsters haven't developed as I hoped, regardless what I do. 

Well that's the thing about my squad, they're all already very young! I only sign young players, so my starting lineup is usually 18-25, though now it's about 20-25 I think, maybe someone is 26 as we're several seasons deep. So if I have a teen prospect who won't get substantial minutes, it's because someone else young is in front of him.

So with Fuba, this lad, he's 18 and I've already sent him on loan, because he would be the 10th player in line for my midfield diamond of 4, which again is comprised of an A4, a B4, and an emergency backup. He's starting at Parma and they have superb training, even if they, like every AI club, seem to have a shockingly low number of coaches compared to my own club.

I have so many good young players on loan and I sign so few of my youth intake (because they're not good enough) that I then actually sign players to fill the XI for my U20s and barely field a U18 at all. Then I flip them all for profit in a few years to be replaced by others.