Advice needed! Sassuolo 5212 / Serie A - Help appreciated

[jckmlscrwly]

Hello!

Really would appreciate any help with setting up roles for my Sassuolo team.

First season. I think the 5-2-1-2 gets the best out of my squad whilst adhering to the principles I want to stick with.

Ignore the empty bench.

The principles I want to build my tactic around:

• Vertical (shorter) passing between the lines as opposed to passing the ball for the sake of it
• I want my players to spread out and occupy different vertical and horizontal lines
• High defensive line w/ offside trap - utilising my fast, agile defence
• I want to utilise the creative left-footed players at my disposal - specifically Rogerio and Berardi - so I am to have creative, roaming roles on the left whilst my right hand side move up and get into channels
• I want to play on the front foot

Do the roles look balanced and suited to the style of play? I would appreciate any advice.

I am unsure about the defensive roles but I am trying to make sure I play to their strengths - especially with regards to preferred foots. Also, Chiriches is a great passer, so I want any defence line creative onos to be on him.

Please rip to shreds and explain anything that looks odd. All help much appreciated.

Happy Sunday.

[frukox]

36 minutes ago, jckmlscrwly said:

Hello!

Really would appreciate any help with setting up roles for my Sassuolo team.

First season. I think the 5-2-1-2 gets the best out of my squad whilst adhering to the principles I want to stick with.

Ignore the empty bench.

The principles I want to build my tactic around:

• Vertical (shorter) passing between the lines as opposed to passing the ball for the sake of it
• I want my players to spread out and occupy different vertical and horizontal lines
• High defensive line w/ offside trap - utilising my fast, agile defence
• I want to utilise the creative left-footed players at my disposal - specifically Rogerio and Berardi - so I am to have creative, roaming roles on the left whilst my right hand side move up and get into channels
• I want to play on the front foot

Do the roles look balanced and suited to the style of play? I would appreciate any advice.

I am unsure about the defensive roles but I am trying to make sure I play to their strengths - especially with regards to preferred foots. Also, Chiriches is a great passer, so I want any defence line creative onos to be on him.

Please rip to shreds and explain anything that looks odd. All help much appreciated.

Happy Sunday.

Offside trap is more likely to work with defenders with the same duty(defend) rather than different duties. By the way, is your team capable of playing in the final third constantly(supporting and attacking players with good first touch, passing, technique, anticipation, composure, off the ball, work rate, acceleration, agility and balance)? If you plan to camp in the final third, how do you plan to find space for your AFA?

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, jckmlscrwly said:

 

2 hours ago, jckmlscrwly said:

The principles I want to build my tactic around:

• Vertical (shorter) passing between the lines as opposed to passing the ball for the sake of it
• I want my players to spread out and occupy different vertical and horizontal lines
• High defensive line w/ offside trap - utilising my fast, agile defence
• I want to utilise the creative left-footed players at my disposal - specifically Rogerio and Berardi - so I am to have creative, roaming roles on the left whilst my right hand side move up and get into channels
• I want to play on the front foot

I think your tactic needs very little tweaking:

- remove wide attacking width, because it's really not necessary to be used regularly (you can use it as an in-match tweak instead as you see fit)

- remove focus through the middle (because it forces the play through the very area that is usually the most congested by opposition defenses, and on top of that your formation is already narrow)

- remove distribute to CBs (because you are already playing out of defence + shorter passing, so the keeper is discouraged from hoofing the ball anyway)

- consider adding both the "Be more expressive" (to encourage more movement and creative freedom in the attacking third) and "Work ball into box" (to slightly offset the effects of the "Be more expressive" TI)

NOTE: If you want to use the offside trap, then you should not have a CB on cover duty. You can either play all 3 CBs on defend duty or the central CB on a stopper duty and the outer ones on defend.

In terms of roles and duties. here is how I would tweak your setup:

F9/DLFsu    AF

AMat

DLPsu      MEZsu

CWBsu/at                               WBsu

CDde  BDPde/st  CDde

SKde/su

Why these particular changes?

- CF into F9 or DLF because CF generally works better when he has fewer players in his immediate vicinity + can sometimes overcomplicate play

- DLP on support (instead of defend) to encourage a bit more progressive passing from him (the potential defensive risk is mitigated by having the 3/5-man back-line instead of 2/4)

- mezzala instead of BBM to provide more creative support and mobility up front, given that you have a simple type of striker in front of him (however, if you don't have a suitable player for the mezzala role, then better go with the BBM)

A couple more suggestions:

A split block involving both strikers, AMC and mezzala would also be worth considering.

If you keep the CWB on support duty, then the Overlap left instruction could be a good idea (to make him a bit more attack-minded). But if you switch his duty to attack, then the overlap is not needed (would be too risky).

Hopefully you'll find these suggestions helpful. If you have any questions, you are welcome 

 

[jckmlscrwly]

Amazing - thank you very much both for the advice.

Will look into removing offside trap / rearranging the defensive duties. I think Chiriches works just as well as a stopper - albeit not the most aggressive player which would help a bit.

Regarding the split block - I actually already had this in place just minus the mezzala. What is the thinking behind including the mezzala @Experienced Defender? Is that on account of that player occupying a higher starting position, that places him in amongst the AM(A) anyway?

Really appreciate the advice both @frukox and @Experienced Defender!

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, jckmlscrwly said:

What is the thinking behind including the mezzala @Experienced Defender? Is that on account of that player occupying a higher starting position, that places him in amongst the AM(A) anyway?

The idea is to add a bit more pressure, that's all. But if you think/feel it could be too risky, then you don't have to include the mezzala in the split block. 

You can even try a "special" variant of split block with both strikers and both wing-backs (because of the narrow formation), but without anyone else. So it's again 4 players involved, only in a different arrangement.

Sometimes you need to experiment a bit to see which tactical combination suits your team specifically. 

[jckmlscrwly]

49 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

The idea is to add a bit more pressure, that's all. But if you think/feel it could be too risky, then you don't have to include the mezzala in the split block. 

That makes sense - I actually think the player I have in the Mezzala slot (Hamed Junior Traore) has the right makeup to get involved with more urgent pressing - good work rate, off the ball, decisions, aggression.

In terms of my principles, I do wonder whether a 4-3-1-2 may in fact be better suited to my goals:

19 hours ago, jckmlscrwly said:

The principles I want to build my tactic around:

• Vertical (shorter) passing between the lines as opposed to passing the ball for the sake of it
• I want my players to spread out and occupy different vertical and horizontal lines
• High defensive line w/ offside trap - utilising my fast, agile defence
• I want to utilise the creative left-footed players at my disposal - specifically Rogerio and Berardi - so I am to have creative, roaming roles on the left whilst my right hand side move up and get into channels
• I want to play on the front foot

I think potentially getting an extra body in the midfield may improve my chances of achieving my principles. This of course comes at the cost of losing a centre half but having three across the middle in the CM strata would allow us better coverage of the centre whilst also allowing the outer CMs to take wider positions and support the transitions with the WB.

I was thinking:

Please ignore the fact this is Pescara as opposed to Sassuolo. I am specifically thinking about the players at my disposal at Sassuolo. I think I would invert the above as well to have the CWB and DLF on the left, Mez etc. on the right.

If I was looking to build around the 4-3-1-2 shape as opposed to the 5-2-1-2 to achieve my goals, would those roles be well suited?

I have doubts whether a poacher works, or whether in fact an AF would be better.

I also think that Sassuolo have a decent BPD in Chiriches at the RCB slot, so would look to incorporate him there.

Really would appreciate any advice @Experienced Defender

Edited April 6, 2020 by jckmlscrwly

[Experienced Defender]

11 minutes ago, jckmlscrwly said:

I actually think the player I have in the Mezzala slot (Hamed Junior Traore) has the right makeup to get involved with more urgent pressing - good work rate, off the ball, decisions, aggression

This player looks good and definitely can play as a mezzala. But my suggestion about the split block with or without the mezzala was not about that particular player (role) but the team as a whole (do you think that your players are generally good enough defense-wise to play with a 4-men split block or not). 

 

15 minutes ago, jckmlscrwly said:

In terms of my principles, I do wonder whether a 4-3-1-2 may in fact be better suited to my goals

I can't say because I don't know your team, but given that the 4312 is also a narrow system and essentially analogous to the 5212, it probably should suit your players well. 

 

19 minutes ago, jckmlscrwly said:

I think potentially getting an extra body in the midfield may improve my chances of achieving my principles

Your reasoning makes sense, absolutely  

 

20 minutes ago, jckmlscrwly said:

This of course comes at the cost of losing a centre half but having three across the middle in the CM strata would allow us better coverage of the centre whilst also allowing the outer CMs to take wider positions and support the transitions with the WB

Yes  

[Experienced Defender]

23 minutes ago, jckmlscrwly said:

 

27 minutes ago, jckmlscrwly said:

If I was looking to build around the 4-3-1-2 shape as opposed to the 5-2-1-2 to achieve my goals, would those roles be well suited?

I don't see anything wrong with this setup of roles and duties as such. It has good overall balance and logical distribution of roles relative to one another. With the right players - and of course proper selection of instructions - this should work fine IMHO. 

 

27 minutes ago, jckmlscrwly said:

I have doubts whether a poacher works, or whether in fact an AF would be better

I personally would prefer the AF (or PF on attack duty) over the poacher, simply for the sake of better mobility. But the best advice is to experiment with both roles - or even all 3, if you include PF on attack - and make your own judgement. 

 

34 minutes ago, jckmlscrwly said:

I also think that Sassuolo have a decent BPD in Chiriches at the RCB slot, so would look to incorporate him there

Okay, nothing wrong with having one BPD in your setup if you have the right player for the role. 

[jckmlscrwly]

Right, after some fiddling around/back-and-forth. We've got the following together:

I've added low crosses to encourage cut backs - partially because I now have three CMs with two outer CMs taking wide positions (especially Traoré).

I am going to try a front three split block w/ more urgent pressing and heavier tackling. I will also set up the AM to specifically mark an opposition's DM. 

I am wondering whether I need to encourage the team to defend wider when out of position? Just to encourage the outer CMs to help the WBs with pressing/marking, especially when teams play wide forwards with wide full/wing backs overlapping. Does defend winder tick that box?

I think we're getting somewhere! Really appreciate the help @Experienced Defender / @frukox!

[Experienced Defender]

51 minutes ago, jckmlscrwly said:

Looks good IMHO. You can also consider adding the Overlap left instruction occasionally, so as to encourage a bit more attacking mentality on the part of your CWB for more effective support in the final third. It's safer than playing him on attack duty (in case you fear defensive risk). 

 

54 minutes ago, jckmlscrwly said:

I will also set up the AM to specifically mark an opposition's DM

I am not sure that's a good idea. It could make some sense only when an opposition DM is a very important player for their team (e.g. their playmaker or a player with good playmaking ability regardless of his formal role). But otherwise I don't see much point in applying that kind of PI for your AMC. 

 

58 minutes ago, jckmlscrwly said:

I am wondering whether I need to encourage the team to defend wider when out of position?

In a narrow formation, you definitely should not defend narrow (because the formation is already narrow, so you should not put your fullbacks/wing-backs under even more pressure).

Whether you should go with wider or standard defensive width depends on what you see as a potentially bigger threat - opposition crosses (and long diagonals) from the flanks or their central play (killer balls, quick exchange of short passes etc.). 

[zlatanera]

@jckmlscrwly Not got anything to add about the overall tactic necessarily, just the personnel in the midfield. The Carrilero role is meant to cover a fair bit of ground to defend out wide whilst also getting up and down (just not as much as a BBM), whereas the DLP role is more static. I know Manuel Locatelli is a better overall talent, but I wonder if you should ignore the green circles and switch him and Francesco Magnanelli around. Whilst I can't remember his exact attributes I know Locatelli will be more mobile than Magnanelli. 

 

[jckmlscrwly]

CC: @Experienced Defender - This all makes complete sense and I like the idea of adjusting width in response to opposition. Will probably kick games off in standard and then adjust outwards if the opp. is raining in the crosses and overlapping down the wings.

CC: @zlatanera - This is a very fair point and thanks for sending. Top of my list for first season transfers is actually a mobile left-footed CM with high work rate, off the ball, positioning, etc. to run that carrilero role.

I think tonight I will post one final breakdown of everything before tucking into the season ahead. Haven't had masses of time this week.

Cheers!

[Overmars]

I have experimented a lot with the two formations you posted. The 4-3-1-2 ends up being more volatile, providing better goal-scoring opportunities for both teams. The wingbacks in the 4-3-1-2 get exhausted, so you will need capable reserves at those spots for subs. Both formations are vulnerable against teams with two attacking wide players (especially against the 4-2-3-1). I would defend wider against that formation and probably use the 5-2-1-2 option to help defend the crosses that will be flying in repeatedly, though neither formation is going to be ideal against a really good 4-2-3-1 team. For those situations, you might have to have a third option (ex. 4-1-4-1) with more wide players so you can dedicate your fullbacks to defender the attacking wings.