Help me diagnose my tactics please!

[paikenplayer]

Hey guys,

So I'm a relatively long-time player of FM (since around FM08) but if I'm truly honest, the only save I've had large amounts of success in was one where I used a downloaded tactic. I've recently purchased FM18 and trying to create my own success and tactics this time round, and I'm really suffering the steep learning curve. I've read all the guides and threads I could find about my issues (including an embarrassingly large amount of the www.guidetofootballmanager.com guide) and I still can't nail it. With that in mind, I would appreciate any tactical feedback you can provide me.

I've started out with my supported team, Chelsea, and wanted to try and play possession attacking football, mostly because I like the style, because Sarri is known for a style similar to this in real life, and because, well, Abramovich specifically asked for it in my meeting at the start of the season. After some tinkering, this is what I've settled on, followed by the results it has achieved:

From these results what seems immediately obvious to me is the tactic seems to be very successful against better teams (I actually tinkered with it a bit for the City game, so ignore that as an outlier). We have beaten Monaco and Barcelona twice each, as well as Arsenal in the league. It's obvious that the tactic struggles (sometimes desperately) against lower (and probably more defensive) teams. I tried to counter any teams that I thought might park the bus with a similar tactic that aimed to open as much of the pitch space as possible (sitting very deep, playing very wide, etc) to attempt to get Hazard, Pedro, William and Morata in more space to play up front:

This worked for one game against Watford, and even that wasn't a breezy affair. However against Southampton, as you can see, it was business as usual, and we got fairly hammered. Southampton created 5 clear cut chances, whereas I created zero, and we lost 2-0 having VERY few of the highlights in the game.

I've tried to cut down on long shots since we scored absolutely none of them, so I added Work Ball into Box, and when that failed, I had to individually add a player instruction (PI) to every attacker and midfielder telling them to Shoot Less Often. Other than that, I haven't assigned too many PIs to the players. I've told Pedro to mark tighter and tackle harder to try to get him to track back when we lose the ball since Fabregas is in an attacking role and we'd be outnumbered on the right hand side otherwise.

As for the frustrating part of this post, I have no idea why we aren't creating chances, or why we're conceding so many against lower teams. I've tried (believe me I've tried) watching the full games, and I just can't seem to put my finger on what's going wrong, other than we're getting fairly smacked all over the pitch (possession, shots, chances, you name it). I would LOVE any feedback from this community to help me diagnose what's going on here and how I can improve my tactics to start winning games regularly and consistently.

Thanks for all responses! If you need any more screenshots or samples from me, please do not hesitate to ask.

[Nateboia]

I've tried this before so may i give you some suggestions. 
1. midfield - use BWM( support) kante instead of AP fabregas. (no PI). i suggest support as the defend role limits the distance covered by the player and thus making him less effective.

2.  I'm a bit lazy with typing so i will upload my tactics. try them out. I feel that in this ME 433 wide is less superior to 4231 in covering the field. played a few months with 433 but since i wanted to win the league in my first season, i switched to my second tactic. go give it a try. played every league and europa game so i can vouch for it (4231). won the league and europa. second season and doing well.

Although fancy, i feel the Regista is less solid in the defense so when i change it back to DLP def the formation becomes much more solid.

 

4-3-3 sarriball dlp.fmf

 

4-2-3-1 Nate v4.fmf

 

4-3-3 sarriball regista.fmf

[DJ Sir Matthew]

I'm no expert but I'm not sure about your 3 midfielders. The regista is a form of playmaker so won't he slow the game down together with the AP? The CAR makes lateral moves but not much forward. Don't know if Kanté would be better if he appeared higher up the field for ball recovery and lay-offs? In the end of your attacks, how many bodies do you see in dangerous positions? It might only be three?

I would also look at your flanks. Put the WB at support and make Hazard an attacking IF? Not sure about what space they occupy then. But against weaker teams you should be able to get away with it?

[summatsupeer]

Firstly let's look just at the roles+duties and ignore other settings.  You have all your defence defending, you midfield mostly sitting and creating and the forwards mostly focusing on scoring.  2 of the 3 midfielder are wanting the ball, none of them are breaking forward to support the forward.  There's no movement between the lines.  Even if we take into account fluid which will close the differences in mentality to add support that's not going to add movement.

Then look at the TIs:

- pass into space:  BPD-D, AP-A, IF-S and CF-A already do this, who else in that team do you want to play risky passes?

- shorter passing: 2 of the 3 forwards are focused on making runs, playing shorter will slow transitions and allow opponents to get back. As the stay high wanting a pass into space are they in range for a short pass or even available?  Its like you want possession but then want attacking play into space but you've let opponents get back and reduce the space. 

- dribble less:  AP-A, IF-S, CF-A all dribble due to the role.  You'll be relying more on the passing for your penetration but as mentioned above are giving opponents time to get back.

- Roam from position: REG, RMD, CF all roam due to there roles, who else do you want to roam?  Considering your FBs are told to play safe they won't get forward and provide width until the ball is high up the pitch, of the wide forwards have roamed who uses the space they leave?

The counter tactic as also gone to an extreme, not only changing mentality a lot your dropping even deeper like you want to counter attack rather than just letting opponents out a bit to create space to attack.  Plus you're asking the defend duty WBs to overlap?

What should you do? I'd firstly not be so rigid with the player duties. If you want the team to stick more to there job and strata then use team shape to do that.  For example a FB-S on structured is quite conservative.

2 playmakers in a midfield 3 of a 433 DM Wide leaves a lot of space between midfield and the lone forward.  They will move to collect the ball whilst the CAR doesn't try to get up field to support and give another attacking option.  A AP-A is just a riskier AP-S who dribbles, he doesn't make forward runs often and won't really get near the forward until in the final third.

Having 2 of the front 3 attack looks like you want to attack quickly do that needs mobility from CM to get support to them and a passing plan to get then the ball whilst there is space.  If you want a possession style then really you need the forwards to drop and link to help transition the ball.  You've kind of mixed two style up into one.  If you want a mixed approach I wouldn't focus the players options with TIs so much and instead let them choose what the best option is as per the role you've given them.

[paikenplayer]

@Nateboia

18 hours ago, Nateboia said:

4-2-3-1 Nate v4.fmf

Firstly thanks for your help on this. I've tried out a bit with this tactic and I think I have a slightly better understanding of what I'm trying to do with it. Note that I have only tested this over 10 games, but unfortunately I still have the exact same problem: we are great against the bigger sides (some great results in here), but absolutely hopeless against the smaller sides. We're not just losing out to a 90th minute deflection or anything, we are getting well and truly hammered:

Swansea, West Brom and Huddersfield are all in the bottom 3. I tried tinkering with your tactic over the course of the games but I feel like I can't make any impact whatsoever. What sort of results against these teams are you getting with this tactic? 

[Sheriff7]

Like the others said me to i am not a tactic genius but I would suggest you these :First of all I don't change my whole tactic when I play against a better or worst team I just change my teams mentality, for me is big mistake making many changes from game to game, in team instructions I would suggest you to  use exploit the middle or the wings (it's your choice and depands  from how you like seeing your club playing)  because it will help your team having a more specific attacking plan,also I almost never use play out from defense, dribble less and Roam from positions, generally speaking and especially in Fm 18 you shouldn't use more than 4-5 team instructions , in middle area I like beeing more simple and '' old school'' using DM (support or defend duty) and 2 CM (attack and support) and finally I must say that every time I used this type of 4-3-3 in Fm 18 I had really bad results....Anyway that's my opinion.. 

[Nateboia]

On 26/08/2018 at 03:11, paikenplayer said:

@Nateboia

Firstly thanks for your help on this. I've tried out a bit with this tactic and I think I have a slightly better understanding of what I'm trying to do with it. Note that I have only tested this over 10 games, but unfortunately I still have the exact same problem: we are great against the bigger sides (some great results in here), but absolutely hopeless against the smaller sides. We're not just losing out to a 90th minute deflection or anything, we are getting well and truly hammered:

Swansea, West Brom and Huddersfield are all in the bottom 3. I tried tinkering with your tactic over the course of the games but I feel like I can't make any impact whatsoever. What sort of results against these teams are you getting with this tactic? 

(4231)this tactic is my final tactic after much tweaking. i believe if you remained consistent with it and get the team familiar with it you may get the results you hope to achieve. been working wonders for me lately. in the team training i use attacking movement. I don't use any OI.  btw it is my current tactic. (barkley plays better than fabregas imo, fab can't move, if you're using fab make him dribble less)

regarding 433s, i feel the attacking midfield is too vacant. may work better with DLF or False nine in striker role..

[mortiphago]

At the risk of repeating other posters here, here is some stuff that pops up at a glance:

 

* Both wingbacks at defend. First, this is a stupid role that shouldn't exist. A wingback that sits back and defends is a fullback. But, regardless, in terms of the match engine, they'll sit back there and do about nothing during transitions. I'd put them in support at least, maybe one on attack if you have a player with good vision, dribbling and crossing. The idea here is that they go forward and help during attacks instead of sitting back doing nothing. A wingback on attack will also defend, they won't magically forget about it! (however on attack they'll look to run way up the pitch, so you ought to get someone with stamina or they'll get grumpy and tired!)

*  You have three players functioning as "magnets" (playmakers): the Regista, Advanced Playmaker and the Reumdeuteauruaaurr however it's spelled guy on the right forward wing. This is conflicting the match engine for sure. Pick one (whoever has better vision, most likely) and get rid of the other two. Personally I'd try to turn the RMD into an inside forward, and the AP (A) guy into a box-to-box or ball-winning midfielder.

* You have a carrilero on a tactic with wingers. This is conflicting the matchengine and largely pointless. You might have better success with a mezzala, vanilla central midfielder, or ball-winning-midfielder. Assuming your AP(A) guy is good at attacking and the CAR guy is good at defending, i'd probably turn them into a mezzala(A) and BWM (or BBM) respectively. For a BBM i'd look for someone with good stamina and workrate otherwise you'll be subbing him every match.

* I'd get rid of the "roam from positions" team instruction. You're telling your back four to stand back and defend, but also that they should roam and play more attacking (Control setting). Decide on either. I'd get rid of it, it's pretty superfluous. If you really want them roaming just go to Very Fluid.

 

Also note, when I say "I personally would try" I mean "Check each players attributes and decide". Maybe getting rid of the RMD is a bad idea because he's the best at vision and passing, so build around that instead.