Advice with Spurs

[Zodiak]

Hello everyone! I would really appreciate some wisdom  

Here goes. I'm Spurs, playing three at the back, with two wing-backs (WB support), two CMs (AM supp - Veratti, and DLP def - Dembele), and three in attack (all in central position): Alli - SS, Ericksen - AM sup; Harry Kane - CF sup.

Playing on Control, very high line, pressing, work ball in box - you know the drill. 

Doing really well, actually. Unbeaten in league (it's November), only just conceded first goal, 3 out of 3 in UCL group with Juve and PSG. 

But there's still something missing, something wrong... I feel I'm not getting enough out of my players. So would you please recommend the best roles for my 2 CMs and 3 attacking players? Veratti, for instance, isn't making a good impact, I feel; Harry Kane isn't doing well either, and my crosses are very bad (very low percent), so his headers are non-existent. Alli is very inconsistent, goes missing a lot, but then has a decent match. What I'm saying is: their ratings and my position and form are actually deceiving. Goals don't come easy, Veratti isn't worth the 60 mil I paid for him, and I have a feeling that I'm lacking in the DM zone. 

So yeah, two questions: what to do with two CMs; and how to organize efficiently my three attackers. Maybe with PIs or something?

Any further questions I'd be happy to clarify. Can't post screenshot because I'm not home.

[herne79]

You're going to have to help us out a bit here, perhaps with screenshots when you get home.

On the one hand you say you haven't conceded a goal until November; you've won 3 out of 3 UCL matches in a group that has PSG and Juventus; and you're unbeaten in the league.

On the other hand you tell us that Veratti isn't making a good impact; Kane isn't doing well; Alli goes missing a lot; and you're lacking in the DM zone.

So I'm kind of confused as to what the problem is?  Perhaps a screenshot of your results and more info about what you're hoping to achieve (goal scoring wise) will help because at the moment all I can see is you have a rock solid defence and you're winning matches?

[summatsupeer]

Personally i'd have Veretti as the playmaker and have his partner do the dirty work.  DLP-S + DM-D/BWM-D type of combo.  You have 3 narrow players in front of the CM pair so i'd just have them hold and create depth rather than adding another body to the area.

I'd probably only do the above but if still not happy i'd then look at the forward dropping into the AM area where there's already 2 players.  Maybe a CF-A to create space for the AM pair, but will still move around a bit to create space for Alli to run into.

[Zodiak]

53 minutes ago, herne79 said:

You're going to have to help us out a bit here, perhaps with screenshots when you get home.

On the one hand you say you haven't conceded a goal until November; you've won 3 out of 3 UCL matches in a group that has PSG and Juventus; and you're unbeaten in the league.

On the other hand you tell us that Veratti isn't making a good impact; Kane isn't doing well; Alli goes missing a lot; and you're lacking in the DM zone.

So I'm kind of confused as to what the problem is?  Perhaps a screenshot of your results and more info about what you're hoping to achieve (goal scoring wise) will help because at the moment all I can see is you have a rock solid defence and you're winning matches?

You're right, sorry if it sounds confusing. What I mean is: I watch matches. Comprehensive or even full (sometimes) in order to analyse how my team plays. The fact that we're doing OK is nice, but the *way* we're attacking makes me feel my players are not being utilized to their fullest. We're not scoring bag-loads of goals and Kane and Alli are often invisible, or in bad positions, or everyone is stepping on each other's space. Goals often come from well-placed semi-long-range shots from Ericksen or something similar, where a goal just happens not because of tactical brilliance but because we have many people there and someone had their shooting boots on. What worries me is that sometimes our victories are sluggish and the logic of play often seems underwhelming. I know that my attacking band is very narrow, but these are the players I have... So there's all sort of staying there centrally in front of a packed defense. The WBs get a lot of space, yes, but for some reason their crossing is useless, so this aspect is at best used for ball retention and not for creating chances. Similarly, my CM band feels underwhelming: I know I need a defensively-minded fighter (which I don't have after selling Wanyama), but at the same time I want both Veratti and Dembele to play because they are good. I honestly bought Veratti to be this super midfield engine, because that was always my impression IRL. I was surprised he's considered an Advanced Playmaker. I wanted him to be an awesome BBM, to link my attacking band with... the lower part of the pitch  I tried him as an RPM as well. 

Also, statistically, if he's not getting got ratings, nor assists or anything - how do I gauge a deeper player's success?

I know I'm rambling a bit, but my point is simple: what I *see* on the pitch is not ideal considering the quality of players at my disposal. I am happy with the system overall, because we are very solid defensively and usually dominate possession. But our actions in the final third are, let's say, sub-optimal. Sure, with the sheer number of bodies in the Golden Zone, there's bound to be one or two good through balls for a solid chance, but for most of the game everyone is acting a bit weird. I just have a feeling there must be a better way role/duty/PI-wise for my players. 

P.S. Added to that, I seem to have hit a rough patch: very sluggish win over Hoffenheim in the UCL, then drawing with last-placed Stoke in the league (who were very successful in hoofing long balls over my defense on to Berahnino and actually dominated possession over me), then losing to Stoke in League Cup, then drawing away at Arsenal. Results aside, we just plain played poorly, not even controlling the ball. Is this the case of the game adapting to my system? Should I look to change more? Everyone is fit and happy. 

I'll post screenshots from home.

[Zodiak]

OK, I am finally able to post some screenshots. Hopefully you guys will help me out, especially considering that I seem to have jinxed myself and results have plummeted. All suggestions warmly welcome!

I'll post the tactic I used to use and the tactic I'm about to use now for the first time. The one I had been using was Control - Structured (as opposed to Fluid now) had many TIs which I have slowly gotten rid of in a bid to improve results: practically everything was adjusted (play from defense, close down more, higher line, offside, get stuck in, work ball into box, play through middle, look for overlap...) and some players had PIs I can't honestly remember... (move into channels, roam from position). Like I said, the exact tactic was lost due to me getting mad at the team and trying to tinker. The one I'm about to use is as of yet untested. No TIs, no PIs, fluid shape. 

The one with two AMs is the old one. The one with a DM is new... 

It's as if I could feel it coming: the moment I posted this results have gone down the drain, with an inability to score *and* keep the ball. We used to have 65% possession and 20 SOTs, now it's nowhere to be seen. I can't even remember what I broke and how I did it. 

 

[Zodiak]

Next up results, squad, stats. Please look them over when you have the time and I'd appreciate any suggestions.

https://ibb.co/cahrhm
https://ibb.co/fqvoTR
https://ibb.co/gW4F8R
https://ibb.co/fFkYv6
https://ibb.co/cbTLa6

[summatsupeer]

I think you've gone a bit mad with the creative roles, in the first you have 7 players (plus a DLP who gets more creative freedom) looking to play through balls often, but who's looking to run into space?  It doesn't look balanced or like it gets the best from the players.  Alli + Kane looking to play risky passes whilst Eriksen doesn't?  Have Dembele as a playmaker but Eriksen not?  If you want to get the ball forward into space quickly then you need players to get forward into space quickly, i'd have one if not two WB-A, let Alli be more balanced as a AM-A, add Risky Passes to Eriksen and have Dembele as a non-playmaker role so he keeps it simple more often and let Verratti see more of the ball.  I'd also have the central DC keep things simple and just feed the other creators around him who are better with the ball so there's a bit less wasted possession.

I prefer the second version, i'd personally have the DLP-S in DM and a simple supporting role in MCL (CM-S / BBM-S etc). Same DC change as above plus I'd have a normal narrow midfield diamond with the AM in AMC and let Kane play from the center rather than favouring the right side.  I think on a lower mentality it could be a good counter attacking tactic but doesn't try to force it every time, if the counter isn't on it can patiently move the ball around to create space.

[KevMS84]

Well, I've been working on a similar tactic as posted in another thread (shame he gave up on it.)

 

I had been winning but, like you, wasn't particularly pleased with the tactic.  I was winning matches, scoring goals and haven't conceded... but it I just felt like the team wasn't playing as well as it should have.  Even in a 2-0 win at Man City I felt like might of stolen it a bit.

 

So with a bit of tinkering I tried this tactic out against Real Madrid (at Wembley) and ran out 4-0 winners, but more importantly we looked like the clearly better team throughout.  Madrid didn't even have a shot on goal in the first half.  I think the ended the game with five or so shots on goal and only one half chance.

 

 

Obviously I need more games with it but I believe it's starting to come together finally.  Might have to remove 'Get Stuck In' as I am fouling fairly often, but at the same time I want my players to be aggressive and win the ball back.  I feel that's part of why we've not conceded yet in the first nine matches.

 

My possession so far has been a bit ho-hum, usually around 50% split, give or take a few points.

[w_x]

On 16/11/2017 at 22:12, KevMS84 said:

Well, I've been working on a similar tactic as posted in another thread (shame he gave up on it.)

 

I had been winning but, like you, wasn't particularly pleased with the tactic.  I was winning matches, scoring goals and haven't conceded... but it I just felt like the team wasn't playing as well as it should have.  Even in a 2-0 win at Man City I felt like might of stolen it a bit.

 

So with a bit of tinkering I tried this tactic out against Real Madrid (at Wembley) and ran out 4-0 winners, but more importantly we looked like the clearly better team throughout.  Madrid didn't even have a shot on goal in the first half.  I think the ended the game with five or so shots on goal and only one half chance.

 

 

Obviously I need more games with it but I believe it's starting to come together finally.  Might have to remove 'Get Stuck In' as I am fouling fairly often, but at the same time I want my players to be aggressive and win the ball back.  I feel that's part of why we've not conceded yet in the first nine matches.

 

My possession so far has been a bit ho-hum, usually around 50% split, give or take a few points.

I'm surprised you have roughly 50% possession considering the TI's like retain possession, short passing, work ball into box

[Zodiak]

Ok guys, I'm getting really frustrated at the game (and/or myself). So I've played some more, all the while constantly adjusting the tactic. The main negative points haven't changed: we dominate possession, we dominate shots, we pass well (best in the league), but we just can't score. I'll never believe the amount of quality attacking talent that I have needs some kind of special ingenious tactical brilliance to just freakin' score. Furthermore, there are things that really look like bugs: every highlight is either someone shooting at a person or crossing at a person. The number of blocked shots and crosses is very unrealistic. Are top Premier League players blind and stupid? Why do they insist on shooting and/or crossing at the guy in front of them. It's made worse by the fact that corners are never a threat, and indeed are more dangerous for me because the other team gets an instant counter. The most frustrating thing of all is that I play worse the worse my opponent is. I've lost to all the bottom-league sides. They get 2 shots - 2 goals. I get 20 shots - no goals. 

There was an Arsenal game, I was 2nd, they were 3rd, plus the derby factor - I've had 16 shots, 56% of the ball, made a gazillion passes - nothing. They have 3 shots, 2 goals. How do you explain that?

I'm trying to learn more about the game. And if it were LLM, I'd agree my players have bad decisions, bad crossing etc. etc. But these are top world talent here. How are they unable to create clear chances and convert at least one of them? What do I need to do?

How do I tell my wing-backs, who earn 80k per week, to actually at least once put in an accurate cross? Why do they cross out of the pitch? Even I can cross! Anyone can cross! But them - they either cross at the guy in front, or - when no one is around - they cross it straight to the goalie or out of bounds. I'm OK with my strikers losing the header battle, but there isn't even one - no crosses ever come through. 

I really am on the verge of quitting. I feel I have a good system - very well-organized defensively, and with endless possibilities in attack. How do I get it to work? Why can't I beat bottom league clubs? Why can't I score at least one out of 16 against my arch rivals, and they somehow score both of their shots. 

Below is the screenshot of the tactic. I'm now trying to do away with the BWM, because he adds nothing, seeing as Dier covers the area. Instead I have Alli as yet another body in attack. Wingbacks are on attack and are getting in all the right positions - but what's the point if they can't cross or do anything. I also don't know what to do with Ericksen and my DLP. Which roles? Ericksen doesn't make a good impact, and he's a top player. In previous FMs the AM was king. Ericksen has get further forward, roam from pos, more risky passes and move into channels. DLF has roam from pos and move into channels. Harry Kane has shoot less often because he can't hit the goal if his life depended on it. Granted, neither can Ericksen or anyone else on my team. And we're top of the league comparison for long shots. Go figure. With these instructions I'm aiming for total fluidity in attack, in order to make runs to make space. Because every single opponent seems to become super-defense against all - they press everyone WHILE sitting deep. And they have magical finishing - every shot goes in. 

Second screen Arsenal game. 17 shots, only 4 on target, the rest blocked. 3 out of 37 crosses. Your answer? Work ball into box? Shoot less often? Already done long ago. It doesn't work. 

I'll repeat - all the guides and all the videos and all the gurus say: look at attributes, look at this, look at that - but I have top players. Why aren't they playing like top players? How can there even be only 3 crosses out of 37? How can they keep on shooting at the people in front of them? Why can't they take a clear shot, instead turning around and passing way back to the goalie.

I've been playing this game for a long time and the 20 shots, zero goals for; 1 shot - 1 goal against; super goalie bug has always been there. Many many years. But this is not about that. It's gone to a higher level. There isn't even a need for a super goalie now - the AI just prevents your team from even completing your shots. Before - it needed a super goalie, now it's gone for super defense. 

Anyway,  rant over. Any advice? Take my team - how do you make them score more goals? Which roles, which PIs? And beat 20th placed clubs? We actually lose to them, we don't even draw. They get super powers against us - they press like 3 players vs 1, they drop deep the moment they lose the ball, and they are clinical on the counter/set-piece. I always marvel at them and wish my team played like that. 

 

EDIT: Right after posting this: drew with Brighton and Watford - both in relegation zone. Focused on attacking movement, had thirty men in attack - all useless, pathetic. This game seriously just decided not to let me win. My neighbors managed to lose points, but why do I care? I can't for the life of me ever make use of their slip-ups, because I can't beat two relegation zone teams in a row!!! No other explanation. How come I thrash Ajax and beat PSG, Juventus and the like, and am unable to overcome a single bottom table side. They are all invincible all of a sudden. Perfect defending, perfect attacking. 

[summatsupeer]

I'm not going to address all the questions, clearly your frustrated and just started trying things and lost your cool.  You haven't talked about anything thats happened in matches, just stats and feelings, thats not analysing.  You know in RL theres teams with world class players who look terrible sometimes (arsenal until recently) or games where keepers look unbeatable, but i've had games where my keepers done amazing cos i've made a bad decision and he's had lots of work to do.

You clearly don't value players keeping it simple, but taking risks more often doesn't mean more/better chances.  Your players are probably just trying to force it when there isn't a good opportunity.  Control + Fluid will be quite high up the pitch, your then pressing more and tight marking plus preventing short GK dist, if all that high pressure works, where are the runners and risky passes going to be played into?

Changes i'd make:

1. Normal central defenders instead of BPD's.  Who's running behind opponents d-line when the defenders have possession?
2. Add depth to midfield by changing the CM pair.  If the front 3 can't find space working the #10 area, adding more players to it won't help.  What about a DLP + CM-S/BBM-S/CAR-S to link defence and midfield?  To sometimes play it simple or sometimes play it risky rather than forcing it so often.
3. Scrap the TI's and just see how the roles+duties play together.  There's wierd combos like Retain+Pass Into Space and Tight Marking + Offside Trap i'd avoid.
4. Flexible unless there's a specific style your trying to create.
5. Control is fine to start with. 

You'd have two WB-A providing width and a player on the shoulder of the defence with 2 players in the #10 area with deeper support / runners.  I might play with a higher tempo but if I wanted to look to play behind the opponents d-line more i'd want to play deeper to create space.  If I wanted to play a possession style i'd look for more patience in roles, duties and TIs.  Not saying this will give you want you want but it I think its a better place to start from to analyse and tweak from than what you currently have.

[Argonaut]

I don't like wingbacks on attack this year. They run to the byline and then cross it right at the side netting. Or at the goalkeeper. Or into Row Z. "He certainly didn't mean that!" They were super overpowered in the last couple of FM's, but this year they're kind of garbage. I would put both them on support, or at least one of them.

I also am having trouble with players in the AM strata the same as you. I think they tweaked them this year because apparently the exploit strikerless tactics with 3 AM's don't work as well. Consider dropping that guy to CM strata and varying up the roles like sumaat says.

[Zodiak]

I am frustrated because I feel there's something fundamentally wrong with my team and I'm out of ideas on how to improve. What usually happens in FM is that you take the bad with the good, you slowly build something, you grow. There's a path to take. There's a goal. You see what has to be done. And that's where the fun comes from. But in this particular case I'm honestly clueless on how to grow. I feel I've built a great squad, capable of winning the league, or at the very least beating 20th, 19th and 18th placed clubs. And I would have been on course for that, if not for my consistent(!) inability to beat lower-level opposition. Trust me, it wasn't one game - that happens to everyone on FM, you won't see me complaining. But I seem to have a serious, systemic problem with clubs in the bottom of the league. I've lost many many points. And it boggles my mind that with the level of players I have, coupled with their great morale, cohesion, happiness, training (I've worked on ticking all the boxes), I can't find a solution. Actually, what really angers me is that I even *have* to find a solution in the first place. Aren't they supposed to be good enough to beat the likes of Brighton on their own, without my involvement? I gave them a system with freedom and a very solid back-line. All they have to do is perform. 

Look, I could try and "trick" the game - use a different tactic just because, or do something else that exploits the engine. But is that realistic? I don't want to do that. I still firmly believe in my system, and everything seems to be working well - possession, dominance, defensive solidity (the goals I do concede rarely even come from proper open-play positional stuff - it's always a set-piece, a deflection, Aldewerdelverd passing the ball to their stiker etc.). I like my system. I've had great fun building it and starting the save. We do play good football - all until we need to score. 

Should I try to play with wider players? I'm sure if I fielded two inside forwards or something similar, we'll beat Brighton comfortably. But it pains me to have to "game" the game, to try to exploit it, just to get a result. 

As for me and my emotions, I'd gladly present you whichever information might help to help me. I do need advice. I'm frustrated because I don't see what else I can do to make my team perform not even better than they are, but just to their potential. Why would I then take the second season? What is there to be done for me? Winning the league isn't the be all end all thing - I'd gladly take 2nd, 3rd or whichever place if only I could see that there's still room for improvement.

[summatsupeer]

I think your being a bit stubborn, if it was just a case of putting a team out and the best players will win it for you then what's the point in tactics?

I've explained a lot above, do you not agree with my points?

[Zodiak]

No, thank you for your suggestions, I will definitely try them out. I'm sorry I seem that way. What do you mean by patience in roles/duties, though? Could you elaborate a bit? And how would you go about creating a high-pressing, high-line, possession football that will also actually produce goals? I see my attackers as creative, talented and able to weave in and out of space on their own, so I tried my best to make it work. Like I said, I don't mind a game where we play well but fail to score because we hit the post/goalie etc. What worries me are teams who are clearly worse, on a bad run of form, sitting at the bottom of the table, suddenly being able to completely outplay us: outdefend, outpress and find their goal or two with ease. I know that every time something like this comes up, it's the poster who seems bitter and stubborn, but what if there's actually an underlying, let's say, inefficiency in the engine? I have all the pkms, I can share them easily. Bottom teams pressing like Klopp or Barcelona, then dropping deep 11 men faster than you can blink. 

There's also a thread just today from someone managing Liverpool, and his problems are very similar: bad away form/zero chances created against lower-level opposition. Might there actually be a problem? Of course, no team can dominate eternally, and bad matches will happen, but mine happen very consistently. Maybe it's not a bug per se, but the AI might be too good at shutting such teams down? With oppo instructions and whatnot. I see all my players getting harassed and pressed with two, three guys, and even if they're able to pass their way out of the press, they then hit the 11 man wall. And just decide to shoot at someone.

[summatsupeer]

Patience is not making players trying risky options so often.  A AM-S will Sometimes look for Risky Passes whilst a AP-S will Often look for a Risky Pass, effectively reducing how good a opportunity has to be for the player to try it.  Patience can help so rather than trying to force sometimes, you keep the ball and work it around more for a better opportunity.  There's lots of ways this can be used, such as having simple BWM/CM-S type roles but then have your star creator as a Treq, they keep it simple and let him take the risks as he has a higher chance to succeed.  I think you've gone down the "they're all stars so can all try often" resulting in trying low chance options often before building an attack.  You might even want a star player to not try often, so when he does try its going to be a better opportunity and with his skill a very good chance of success.

High Press+High Line possession football I think requires more support duties, very few players trying risky passes often, waiting for a better opportunity.  Few players looking to make Forward Runs often, instead of playing mostly on the shoulder have more players look to receive the ball deeper to feet, drawing opponents to them to create space to then run into.

Pressing is usually effective because the player with the ball has few options, I think this was likely an issue since you had 5 players told to get forward with only a AP-S and DLF-S dropping plus instructed the team to Exploit the Middle.  Pressing high needs a plan and the right formation for it.  532 I think can work even though no one is naturally picking up the opponents fullbacks, it cuts the field in half so should prevent switching of play, pressing inside out.  Rather than having everyone's pressing increased i'd do it individually or use opposition instructions to get the right players press the right opponent.

How lower teams setup (Defensive + Structured for example) is pretty much a perfect counter for how your tactic was setup.  They sit deep and tight, your telling your team to push up, try and run behind them and focus play through the middle.  Where's the space?  Not behind them. Its usually wide and in front of there midfield so you need to draw them out to the ball to then use the space they left deeper in there formation.  Trying to play a through ball when a d-line is staying near its box without first drawing defenders out of position is almost impossible, crossing into a organized defence also has a low chance of success but its probably more than playing a through ball behind a deep organized d-line.

Whilst I do see a number of poor crosses (that end up as near post shots) I don't agree about any other possible bugs, hopefully the above explains why.

 

[MakaveliPT]

Alright, let me see if i can help out a bit, i actually play the same formation this year, also with tottenham as my inspiration, and i just probably had the best season i ever had on any FM, granted i'm playing on portuguese league and by now my team is way above average on the league, but i managed a 103 goals difference with this formation with 114 scored and 11 conceded, so don't quit on the formation! It can create some crazy amazing plays, anyway my thoughts:

Striker : Just like myself my first thought of role for the striker was the complete forward, and just like yourself i've used a shadow striker behind him, that made sense to me, but i could barely create any chances, i concluded that i didn't needed my striker to be a creator most of the time, i needed lateral movement, i needed him to run into space to get those through balls, i already had plenty of supportive creators behind him, therefore i changed him to an Advanced forward, moving into channels and running into space, also crossing while being wide, perfect! between my main striker and sub they had 68 goals and 27 assists, again on a more competitive league i doubt the stats would be this high, we'll see as i quit my job and i'm looking for one on premier league now

AMC : AMC's was always a problem for me on every FM tbh, always underachievers, always seemed to me they should be doing so much more, especially on supportive duty, i still haven't quite fixed that as i use an MO/S and MO/A, the attacking one has been great, being my main assister and secondary goal scorer which is exactly what we're looking for, why i swapped SS for an MO/A you might ask, the SS doesn't defend as much, he sits a bit higher up than the MO/A and he only starts his runs higher on the pitch in my experience. THE MO/S is an issue, he scores, he assists, he does okay, but as always he should be doing way better, i haven't managed to fix this yet and tbh i doubt i will, what i know is i don't like playmakers in formations like these, they are ball magnets, and they distort the formation, i'd only consider one if using a runner behind him like a CM/A, but that would make our defense quite weaker to counter attacks, reason why no adv. playmaker.

CM : Ball winning midfield is a nice choice, i've eventually changed to a deep playmaker as i don't mind him being a magnet deeper in the field and it suited my players better, the CAR role tho', has the same problem in this type of formation as the playmaker imo, he moves too much laterally to support the flanks and then when players want to switch the ball from the left flank to the right there's no passing option because both CM's are supporting the left flank, that will lead to bombing the ball right and it might result on lost balls, also leaves the right AMC unsupported, i use a box2box mid instead having vertical movement instead of lateral one.

Now, the really important parts, Mentality and Shape, just like you at my first trying of this formation i had insane possession but no chances at all, the reason was Tempo, we're playing with a single striker, players will have a split of a second to do a through ball when the striker moves into space, if they don't he'll be already marked and won't be a passing option instead what you have is 'retain possession' 'shorter passing' 'work ball into the box' and a Control mentality, that translates into take barely to no risks. Push up higher will make a formation weak to long through balls even weaker, so how do we control that massive space between CM's and CD's? Well using a covering defender on the mid will only open that gap more for opponent strikers, so while i understand your idea if you want to use covering defenders i'd use them on the sides and a blocker on the middle to go cover that gap as soon as possible. How can we further cover it? Shape! a more fluid shape will make the team act more as one, with a few pressure PI's on the midfield and wingbacks you will park the bus defending with 5 players with 2 mids in front of them making it very difficult to break.

Anyway here's my formation hope it gives you some new ideas and things to try, i know how it feels to be frustrated and out of ideas, it really sucks, been there way too often, best luck!

 

[Zodiak]

Thank you! That was great :-)

[Zodiak]

Ok, this is what I tried to do now. The result is attached as well. Don't really know yet... As you can see, I tried to simplify things and do away with keeping possession and pressing high. I also deleted almost all PIs (Harry Kane still gets Shoot Less Often because he can't shoot). My Wing-Backs aren't the best, so I gave them Fewer Risky Passes and Dribble Less. Just want something no nonsense out of them. Veratti is too good to be dropped, but he also feels a bit wasted in DLP-D. What do I do? Alli as well - he seems fine in any role, but is he really a BBM? Ericksen still an unknown to me - whichever role I choose, I can't see him ever participate in highlights. As you can see, we had a lot of SOTs, but we allowed them too much as well. So, like I said, I don't really have an opinion on this style yet. It was an open game, without much proper football. Of course, my attackers did get a bit more space, but there was little logic and structure to our chances. It's more of a "Hail Mary" kind of style - see where the game takes you and be direct. 

Will continue tinkering... 

 

[Argonaut]

I'm using the 3-4-3 Flat with Tottenham to great success. I've got Eriksen as sort of a free role in a False 9 with roam from position. Maybe try moving him down to CM as a Mezzala if he isn't working in the #10 role. I've also got Harry Kane with Shoot More Often, and he bags in the goals. He has great attributes and PPM's for shooting, you just have to tell him to let loose. He'll miss of course but sometimes quantity is as good as quality.

[Zodiak]

This has turned into a bit of a diary, hasn't it? But wanted to share a happy moment, maybe in order to not seem so bitter all the time. Minor happy moment: we managed to beat Chelsea in the FA Cup 6th Round on penalties, while not playing too well. Tried the same three at the back formation, with a bit more restrained. We didn't play well, but somehow managed not to lose. Next up we got the UCL draw - Barcelona (there were far easier clubs available). My luck. Next up - got beat by Man United in the league, outright. Their players somehow play like I want mine to. Simple, effective, always on target. Nothing fancy. Then came the first leg at Barca. I panicked and went with a 4-1-4-1 formation. We didn't play awful, but still they won comfortably 2-0. Then I switched to a 4-2-3-1 against Southampton at home, and we didn't play well, but due to the game putting so much emphasis on home vs away, we scraped through. 

So I was approaching the Barca return leg with barely any players available, and the ones that were were jaded to bits. I decided to with my all-time FM favorite 4-3-3 diamond formation (with players out of position because I sold all my wide players thinking I have no place for them), attacking, few TIs. And we absolutely dominated Barcelona for some reason. They weren't even allowed a SOT. Still, we needed a penalty and a 93 minute equalizer to push through onto extra time, where we continued to dominate but failed to score. But we won the penalties. So yeah, good things happen too. I'll stick with the 4-3-3 for now. DM is half-back, Alli is MEZ, Veratti - DLP. Ericksen on the left AP-S, Jesus or whoever on the right - IF-A. Kane - CF-S. 

I was so happy I started looking for the Save Match function and instead inadvertently started some kind of video encoding, and it's now stuck. I did managed to take a screenshot as proof.

[summatsupeer]

Tbh with 3x BPD and More Direct I'm surprised you got that much possession.  Not surprised it was more end to end type of match though.  I think Verretti could of been a DLP-S with WB-S and 3 CBs.  Maybe instead of being more direct you want to be more attacking?  You've got the players doing different things and more depth so now could try different mentalities and shapes.

I see you've switched tactic, good result.  Looks like you've got some variety in your roles+duties so I think your making good progress.  If you want them to be more attacking as a team do that through mentality rather than adding lots of attack duties and get forward PIs or risky passes like you were.

[Zodiak]

Thank you, that's exactly what I did against Barcelona - zero attacking duties, attacking mentality. Have a look. I guess there might be an in-game bias towards players in wide positions being more effective than overpopulating the AMC strata, even though they end up occupying roughly the same spaces, being a wide AP and an IF. Let's see if we can beat Bournemouth with this.

[summatsupeer]

That's almost a polar opposite of your 532, focusing on possession with support duties and Retain Possession compared to 3xBPD + Direct Passing.  Did you consider trying something like that with your 532?

 

[Zodiak]

End of season report: FA Cup winners, 2nd in the league, lost UCL Semi-Final on aggregate 6-0 to Atleti Madrid. Decent? I think so, but we're not an inch nearer to a stable working enduring system. I've no idea what kind of football my team needs to play.

So I have a question to ask: should I go on with them or look elsewhere (not renew contract and wait for job; Liverpool is already available after losing to us in the FA Cup final)? I feel I've done all within my power and there's little else going forward. I'm sitting here without any kind of picture as to what to do next with this team. Which players and what areas to improve. In terms of the squad, I feel I've done a very fine job indeed getting rid of many questionable players on high wages, while getting top-class youth talent who fit in nicely. I've also upgraded all of my key players' contracts. The squad is very strong with the exception of full-backs, maybe, but then there aren't any in the game. The finances are better than ever. Everything is under control. Staff is great, coaches and scouts and all. My successor won't even have to get out of bed in the morning, the team runs itself. 

So it's a weird feeling I have, maybe for the first time in my FM gaming career: I honestly can't think of a single reason to stay at the club. I've given them all I had. We've done very well, but haven't achieved the most important thing: a robust system that won't need radical tweaking every match and will produce results both home AND away (with goals, thanks you very much). I'll just get disappointed at our instability again and resign later. So what would you guys recommend? I must have built quite a reputation with these results so I'm hoping if I wait, a big club might come calling. I'm even pondering asking for the Liverpool job... I did become attached to the squad I so passionately built (it's a small squad but they all deserve to be there - the rest were let go for a reason), but I just don't see a challenge anymore. Might we go on to win the CL now instead of getting knocked out from the Semis? Maybe, but it's all left at the mercy of chance. Same with the league. Man United were unstoppable (How? I don't know, they're controlled by the AI.) and we've lost so many points against bottom clubs it's ridiculous.