Tweak this for second season misery

[Karnack]

After a pretty good first season at Lyon where we ended runner-up, won the french cup and a final in the euro league I have been pleased with my tactics. Unfortunately teams are starting to respect us now, meaning the start of the second season have been a catastrophe.

What can I do to tweak this in order to have a better chance against much much worse teams? 

Mentality: Control (I've played the most recent games on counter just to try and stop those awful gambling passes to a player sandwiched between 3 defenders that never succeeds)
Team shape: Flexible
TIs: Shorter passing, pass into space, play out of defence, work ball into box, close down more, stay on feet
Formation:

--------------GK(De)----------------
----CD(De)-CD(St)-CD(De)-----
CWB(Su)----------------CWB(At)
---------RPM(Su)-CM(De)--------
----------------SS(At)----------------
-----------CF(Su)-DLF(At)---------

 

The first season we had an excellent attacking and defensive record with 81 goals for and only 28 against. This season we are leaking goals everywhere.

Not sure what to try from here, so thankful for any suggestions!

[sporadicsmiles]

There is probably no magic bullet for one thing you can change in order to just fix things. The first thing you need to do is to identify why you are conceding the goals that you do. Have a look at them and see if you can spot a trend. Is there a particular area of the pitch that is being exploited time and again leading to goals? Are your players just not playing very well and making mistakes? Can you identify something that your team is doing time and again that makes it go wrong? If you can spot what exactly is going wrong, then you have a better chance of being able to fix it.

Another point is did you add a lot of new players to the squad? Do they fit into your system as well as your previous players? Did you add too many players at once which can cause some disjointed performances? As far as I can tell, you choice of formation, roles and duties seems sounds, so there is not anything that I can obviously tell you to try without a little more information.

[Karnack]

17 minutes ago, sporadicsmiles said:

There is probably no magic bullet for one thing you can change in order to just fix things. The first thing you need to do is to identify why you are conceding the goals that you do. Have a look at them and see if you can spot a trend. Is there a particular area of the pitch that is being exploited time and again leading to goals? Are your players just not playing very well and making mistakes? Can you identify something that your team is doing time and again that makes it go wrong? If you can spot what exactly is going wrong, then you have a better chance of being able to fix it.

Another point is did you add a lot of new players to the squad? Do they fit into your system as well as your previous players? Did you add too many players at once which can cause some disjointed performances? As far as I can tell, you choice of formation, roles and duties seems sounds, so there is not anything that I can obviously tell you to try without a little more information.

I've added about 4 new players, one whom instantly took a place in the starting 11.

Conceded 5 from corners which is strange since I have the tallest team in the league and all of my CDs are 14+ heading and jumping. Through balls 4 and the rest a mix.

Two CDs have been doing quite a few mistakes leading to goals and I've rotated them as best as I can with this squad. 4 of my forwards are in awful form, the only one still scoring is Lacazette.

The last 6 games have been:

2-2
0-2
2-2
1-1
1-2
1-1

So, a lot of draws. The opposition has scored the first goal in 5/6 games and we have been chasing for most of them.

 

[sporadicsmiles]

The thing with mistakes is that you cannot really do too much about them, other than drop the player who is making them, as you have been doing. The good thing is that normally it will fix itself as the player gets his form and touch back. 

4 players probably is not going to upset the balance of the team too much, so lets scratch that as an explanation for now. 

Are they goals directly from corners, as in corner, header, goal. Or do they come from the broken play that follows a corner? If it is the former, then the obvious thing is to check the defensive corner routines to make sure that you have the correct players doing the correct things. As a tip in general here, leave your fastest striker forward, and have your second fastest player set just outside the box. This can help setting up counter attacks (not helpful for defending, I know). 

With players being in bad form, is it that they are missing easy chances that they should score? Or just in general playing poorly? With out of form strikers, I tend to try to give them a bit of reserve football so they can remember what the goal is and how to put the ball in it. It could also be they are playing bad because they are being defended well. A defensive team with at least 1 DMC could shut down your attackers by really preventing the ball from getting to them and by denying them space.

It could also be telling that you concede goals early, because it implies your team is really not switching on first thing in a match. That could be a motivation issue, or it could be nerves caused by poor form. I would have a look at team talk feedback, and also check if players see nervous/complacent and try to adjust what you say to players before matches. You could also try to start the match a little bit more conservative (drop the mentality) to give yourself some time to play yourself into the match. Be careful that you do not invite the other team on though, you do not want to be defensive, you just want to control the play.

[WhyMe]

The thing that leaps out at me is the middle defender on a stopper duty.  Having the middle guy step up can leave a gaping hole behind him making you vulnerable to through balls.  His side defenders can cover if they are very fast but it wouldn't be a strategy I would want to try.  Without trying it out I can't say if this is the problem or even if this happens but my preferred strategy for a 3 man back line is stopper-cover-stopper with your tallest fastest guy in the cover position.  Watch the 4 goals conceded from through balls back if you can and see if this is the issue.  The combo I mention has also worked well for me in coping with teams using 2 wide players on each flank especially when combined with close down less instructions for your wing backs.

[Karnack]

1 hour ago, sporadicsmiles said:

The thing with mistakes is that you cannot really do too much about them, other than drop the player who is making them, as you have been doing. The good thing is that normally it will fix itself as the player gets his form and touch back. 

4 players probably is not going to upset the balance of the team too much, so lets scratch that as an explanation for now. 

Are they goals directly from corners, as in corner, header, goal. Or do they come from the broken play that follows a corner? If it is the former, then the obvious thing is to check the defensive corner routines to make sure that you have the correct players doing the correct things. As a tip in general here, leave your fastest striker forward, and have your second fastest player set just outside the box. This can help setting up counter attacks (not helpful for defending, I know). 

With players being in bad form, is it that they are missing easy chances that they should score? Or just in general playing poorly? With out of form strikers, I tend to try to give them a bit of reserve football so they can remember what the goal is and how to put the ball in it. It could also be they are playing bad because they are being defended well. A defensive team with at least 1 DMC could shut down your attackers by really preventing the ball from getting to them and by denying them space.

It could also be telling that you concede goals early, because it implies your team is really not switching on first thing in a match. That could be a motivation issue, or it could be nerves caused by poor form. I would have a look at team talk feedback, and also check if players see nervous/complacent and try to adjust what you say to players before matches. You could also try to start the match a little bit more conservative (drop the mentality) to give yourself some time to play yourself into the match. Be careful that you do not invite the other team on though, you do not want to be defensive, you just want to control the play.

I'd say it's a mix regarding corners, mostly some serious mistakes from one of my CBs and also two screamers thats just lucky. I've started tweaking set pieces.
Things have started to brighten, it's still not good enough and I'm currently outside top 5. The poor form has been obvious in the very easy chances that they simply shoot over the goal or straight at the keeper. I've had 3 missed penalties out of 3 possible as well and thats not helping. 

I will try to grind it out, I also tried to holiday one game using my tactics just to see if my assistant could do wonders and it was the first clear win by 4-0 so it's probably connected to my team talks and the players not being motivated by me.

[Karnack]

21 minutes ago, WhyMe said:

The thing that leaps out at me is the middle defender on a stopper duty.  Having the middle guy step up can leave a gaping hole behind him making you vulnerable to through balls.  His side defenders can cover if they are very fast but it wouldn't be a strategy I would want to try.  Without trying it out I can't say if this is the problem or even if this happens but my preferred strategy for a 3 man back line is stopper-cover-stopper with your tallest fastest guy in the cover position.  Watch the 4 goals conceded from through balls back if you can and see if this is the issue.  The combo I mention has also worked well for me in coping with teams using 2 wide players on each flank especially when combined with close down less instructions for your wing backs.

I will test a few combinations, starting with the st-co-st!

[summatsupeer]

I'd consider how the two flanks are working.  Your left has two attack duties and a defend (CM-D + CWB-A + DLF-A) so has two penetrating runners and a holder which is good.  Your right flank has all support duties who roam (CWB-S + RPM-S + CF-S) so could leave that flank and requires very smart players to pick the right thing to do when they're asked to do so many things. I might try swapping the forwards so the RPM-S + CWB-S support the DLF-A and the CF-S can offer a bit of depth to the CWB-A overlapping (cutbacks or playing him through etc).

I don't like the combination of Control + Pass Into Space + Close Down More + Stay On Feet. Control + Close Down suggests you want to pressure the opposition high up the field.  Then you have Pass Into Space so you want to play behind them, but your pressing them high so where the space?  I get the Stay On Feet is so you pressure but don't give cheap fouls away that would relieve the pressure but I think just leaving it on default would work fine.

If you want to pressure high i'd not Pass Into Space and just let the players who have that instruction try the risky passes.  If you want to play behind the opposition then I wouldn't Close Down More, i'd probably tell my front 3 the close down more using PI which won't affect your D-Line or other players closing down.

[jorgvandervloed]

On 16-7-2017 at 10:52, Karnack said:

Mentality: Control (I've played the most recent games on counter just to try and stop those awful gambling passes to a player sandwiched between 3 defenders that never succeeds)
Team shape: Flexible
TIs: Shorter passing, pass into space, play out of defence, work ball into box, close down more, stay on feet
Formation:

--------------GK(De)----------------
----CD(De)-CD(St)-CD(De)-----
CWB(Su)----------------CWB(At)
---------RPM(Su)-CM(De)--------
----------------SS(At)----------------
-----------CF(Su)-DLF(At)---------

I would probably change around the striker duties; a CF is more of a goal-scorer than the DLF. A DLF (S) would create more space for the SS (A) I think and would balance your tactic a bit more with the CM (D) and CWB (A) behind him. 

I would also have a look at the CWB (S) and RPM (S) combination. They both roam and dribble more from the top of my head and this might be a bit too much. Especially, with the other CWB, SS and CF also dribbling more. Generally, You're already using a lot of roles that require your players to be good at almost everything. (CWB's, RPM, SS, and CF) Maybe try a standard CM (S) instead of the RPM will add a bit more balance to your tactic. 

[Karnack]

23 hours ago, summatsupeer said:

I'd consider how the two flanks are working.  Your left has two attack duties and a defend (CM-D + CWB-A + DLF-A) so has two penetrating runners and a holder which is good.  Your right flank has all support duties who roam (CWB-S + RPM-S + CF-S) so could leave that flank and requires very smart players to pick the right thing to do when they're asked to do so many things. I might try swapping the forwards so the RPM-S + CWB-S support the DLF-A and the CF-S can offer a bit of depth to the CWB-A overlapping (cutbacks or playing him through etc).

I don't like the combination of Control + Pass Into Space + Close Down More + Stay On Feet. Control + Close Down suggests you want to pressure the opposition high up the field.  Then you have Pass Into Space so you want to play behind them, but your pressing them high so where the space?  I get the Stay On Feet is so you pressure but don't give cheap fouls away that would relieve the pressure but I think just leaving it on default would work fine.

If you want to pressure high i'd not Pass Into Space and just let the players who have that instruction try the risky passes.  If you want to play behind the opposition then I wouldn't Close Down More, i'd probably tell my front 3 the close down more using PI which won't affect your D-Line or other players closing down.

 

3 hours ago, jorgvandervloed said:

I would probably change around the striker duties; a CF is more of a goal-scorer than the DLF. A DLF (S) would create more space for the SS (A) I think and would balance your tactic a bit more with the CM (D) and CWB (A) behind him. 

I would also have a look at the CWB (S) and RPM (S) combination. They both roam and dribble more from the top of my head and this might be a bit too much. Especially, with the other CWB, SS and CF also dribbling more. Generally, You're already using a lot of roles that require your players to be good at almost everything. (CWB's, RPM, SS, and CF) Maybe try a standard CM (S) instead of the RPM will add a bit more balance to your tactic. 

Thanks for your input! I did as summatsupeer suggested. I will try and change the attacking roles as well. The RPM and CWB(S) are two worldclass players and I think that maybe they should be capable enough to use those roles but I will keep that in mind, jorgvandervloed!