Starting to struggle with my 4-1-4-1

[oakesypvfc]

Hey guys.

So, I started a Vale save and went forward with a defensive mentality based tactic focussed on possession. I am getting the possession stats as I wanted but I am having problems scoring, mainly with my strikers. They have scored about two between them and we are in December already. We are not doing too badly, 8th in the league after 20 games, but we have only scored 15 goals and this needs improving, our defence is very solid though, luckily. I know the striker is probably left alienated a little bit in this tactic but I have tried him in quite a few roles, mainly Advanced Forward, Poacher and Deep Lying Forward (both Support and Attack). The problem persists with all three roles.

Here is my set up:

The main striker I use when not injured:

 

 

If you could offer me any help, that would be great.

[Fosse]

Your central midfield roles are very conservative which isn't helped by the combination of the mentality and the stick to positions TI. I'd suggest changing your striker to a role with a support duty and changing your midfield roles around to get an attack duty in there.

[Akkarin]

Agree with @Fosse

I play this formation in my team, and it's not always easy to get enough runners from midfield. I would, sequentially, do the following:

1. Move from Defensive to Counter - this will increase willingness to move forward, at least on the break

2. Switch striker (back to) DLF(s), or CF(s), which will help bring him closer to midfield

3. Switch BBM to CM(a) - this will help him break beyond the front line

4. Make right sided FB and Attack duty, this will help with width and late runs into box on right side

I would try one at the time to see what the impact on the team is and see if it helps

[Akkarin]

5. Moving from Structured to Flexible would help up the Creative Freedom of the team. I needed to do this for my team, it got too static otherwise (esp with the stick to positions shout)

[cns180784]

Playing possession style football cries out for a more fluid team shape... i'd go fluid so the team is more compact. Agree with what ppl have advised here, you really need your man up top as a DLF-S and you need a runner from midfield so have a CM-A in there. Also that striker is good and he could play the DLS-S role especially as he plays with back to goal but there are better options you could get. That guy Forrester is best used as an AF or poacher in order to get the best out of him but like i said he still has the ability to play DLF-S.

Do a search for a DLF...in fact look up Emile Heskey see if he's available...he's perfect for that role. I got him as a free agent for my Notts County team.

[oakesypvfc]

To be fair, I have only just changed around roles in midfield the last couple of matches. I had them as CM-A paired with a DLP before.

The thing is, I like the compactness and how solid we look and don't want to change that, just want to give my striker more chance to shine as whoever has played there has averaged like 6.3 this season

[Akkarin]

Can't really do that without taking some risk I'm afraid... he gets low rating because he is isolated, meaning that he probably runs with ball until tackled or shoots from distance. 

You could try lowering tempo to allow team to catch up to him, but by the time you are in their box you will either need to be high up the pitch and open to counter-attacks or allow runners to break forward and sacrificing some defensive stability.

[herne79]

When using "Automatic" duties, the players with those duties will adopt your chosen Mentality.  So both your Fullbacks actually have a Defend duty.  Fine if that's what you want, but if you are looking for Fullbacks to make some runs you need to consider altering their given duty.

The Defensive mentality is very low risk - take a look at the default Team Instructions.  Further, Defenders will look to clear the ball away from danger areas whereas attackers will be playing patiently until a "decent" chance opens up.  So chances will be few and far between, especially with such an isolated striker and not much movement from midfield.  Now layer onto that your Team Instructions - Retain Possession (which asks for shorter passes and less risky through balls); Shorter Passing (shorter passes again + lower tempo); work ball into box (which they're already basically due to the Mentality) and hopefully you can start to see that you're not playing with much in the way of penetration.  It's ultra risk free, almost excessively so.  I'd also have a think about whether an advanced playmaker is good to have or not.  He's looking to make through balls, but to who exactly?

Now ok, you're 8th in the league.  I don't know if that's good or bad for Port Vale first season?  What are the expectations?  If you're expected to get promoted then you need to loosen up a little and take a few more risks - or play pure counter attacking football (which with a few adjustments you could - check the guide for that in the stickies).  On the other hand, if you are expected to be nearer the bottom then don't try to mend something that doesn't need fixing:- keep doing what you are doing and alter your system / improve your squad when you can.

[Torskus77]

If based on real life, I'd imagine Port Vales expectations to be " Good luck, you are going to need it"  Especially v Walsall  

 

Seriously though, it's a good shape for counter attacking that one, if you really want a tactic  so "risk free"  In fact it's a pretty good shape full stop,  I have never yet managed to get it to work with a striker on an attack duty though, they are just way to isolated. 

[oakesypvfc]

20 hours ago, herne79 said:

When using "Automatic" duties, the players with those duties will adopt your chosen Mentality.  So both your Fullbacks actually have a Defend duty.  Fine if that's what you want, but if you are looking for Fullbacks to make some runs you need to consider altering their given duty.

The Defensive mentality is very low risk - take a look at the default Team Instructions.  Further, Defenders will look to clear the ball away from danger areas whereas attackers will be playing patiently until a "decent" chance opens up.  So chances will be few and far between, especially with such an isolated striker and not much movement from midfield.  Now layer onto that your Team Instructions - Retain Possession (which asks for shorter passes and less risky through balls); Shorter Passing (shorter passes again + lower tempo); work ball into box (which they're already basically due to the Mentality) and hopefully you can start to see that you're not playing with much in the way of penetration.  It's ultra risk free, almost excessively so.  I'd also have a think about whether an advanced playmaker is good to have or not.  He's looking to make through balls, but to who exactly?

Now ok, you're 8th in the league.  I don't know if that's good or bad for Port Vale first season?  What are the expectations?  If you're expected to get promoted then you need to loosen up a little and take a few more risks - or play pure counter attacking football (which with a few adjustments you could - check the guide for that in the stickies).  On the other hand, if you are expected to be nearer the bottom then don't try to mend something that doesn't need fixing:- keep doing what you are doing and alter your system / improve your squad when you can.

 

I see what you are saying about Automatic duties, I think I will keep one of them and use one as slightly more attacking as I feel that only one is capable and don't want to lose too much stability.

We are actually predicted 20th, but I just want more from my striker, so I may have a go at edging towards a counter attacking strategy as it will only probably need a couple of tweaks. If I can get him firing, hopefully we can head towards those playoffs. The defensive tactic may be a good strategy for tricky away games.

Thoughts?

[herne79]

OK, you're predicted 20th and currently 8th.  Manage your own expectations .

Sure it'll be great if you can edge towards those playoffs, and perhaps those changes will help you.  Even if they don't and they backfire on you, you'll still have had a fantastic season and something to build on for next.  Keep going .