Goalkeeper training (DISCUSSION)

[Tipps]

I find it strange that when I go to train my keeper, while going through Development > Training > Additional focus, I can train my keeper to take free kicks & penalties but I seemingly can't train him to save either! I can't put him through extra training to become more adept at either.

Or when I go from Development >Training > New player traits, I can train my goalkeeper to score overhead kicks or how to round the oppositions keeper in a one on one situation but I can't use my goalkeeping coach for anything that would help a goalkeeper to stop the ball from going into my net!!

Not sure if it would come under a player trait but surely there is some way of using your goalkeeping coach to help your keeper to train in dealing with in-swinging or out-swinging corners / free kicks or just crosses or to make your keeper a bit of a penalty saving specialist or to train him to become more adapt at dealing with trying to save free-kicks (setting up his wall).

Or to train him to command his area a bit more.

Why would I want to train my keeper to "dictate the speed of the game"? Why would my keeper want to be trained in outfield specialisation? It just feels like the goalkeepers & the goalkeeper coaches are wasted when it comes to training / coaching.

Any ideas?

[HUNT3R]

9 hours ago, Tipps said:

Why would I want to train my keeper to "dictate the speed of the game"?

I don't see anything wrong with this. This will allow your GK to "break" from the normal tempo. So, if you set up with a very defensive tactic, which will have a low tempo, players taking their time etc, with this, the GK has the tendency to break from that and distribute quickly if he deems this a better option.

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You are still asking for things that you can just train already? Command of Area is an attribute that can be trained.

Being a penalty specialist is interesting. There's no attribute for this and being a keeper myself, penalties are very different to normal open play. I can see this possibly being a player trait. This is going to sound game-y, but something like a boost to Anticipation and Decisions in a penalty situation? Sounds terribly artificial, but some keepers are able to 'read' players better than others in penalty situations, so will anticipate better where the ball will go.

[Tipps]

2 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

I don't see anything wrong with this. This will allow your GK to "break" from the normal tempo. So, if you set up with a very defensive tactic, which will have a low tempo, players taking their time etc, with this, the GK has the tendency to break from that and distribute quickly if he deems this a better option.

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You are still asking for things that you can just train already? Command of Area is an attribute that can be trained.

Being a penalty specialist is interesting. There's no attribute for this and being a keeper myself, penalties are very different to normal open play. I can see this possibly being a player trait. This is going to sound game-y, but something like a boost to Anticipation and Decisions in a penalty situation? Sounds terribly artificial, but some keepers are able to 'read' players better than others in penalty situations, so will anticipate better where the ball will go.

Okay, maybe the dictating of game speed was a bad example but on a same level surely that is just done with the tactic of quick or slow ball distribution?

I didn't want to list all the options that I find pointless for a keeper to be trained at but there are all of the "finishing traits" or could they be turned around so that your keeper trained against this kind of situations? So he could train against trying to be "lobbed" or being "gone around" in a one on one situation?

I'm not on the game right now but I'm sure there are a vast array of things that aren't available for a keeper to be trained at, that would benefit a keeper unless you count "handling" as covering a vast majority of them but I will look later & maybe we can discuss it further then?

[HUNT3R]

1 minute ago, Tipps said:

Okay, maybe the dictating of game speed was a bad example but on a same level surely that is just done with the tactic of quick or slow ball distribution?

Yes, but that then ask the keeper to always distribute quickly or take his time. With that PPM he'll have the tendency to also use his own judgement regarding the speed of distribution.

IRL, I do this frustratingly too much. Many cases where we as a team should be slowing the game down, I break from that norm to distribute quickly. Usually it's when the other team attacks a lot, so I see gaps that my players can exploit. So IRL, I'd say I have that PPM.

[HUNT3R]

5 minutes ago, Tipps said:

I'm not on the game right now but I'm sure there are a vast array of things that aren't available for a keeper to be trained at, that would benefit a keeper unless you count "handling" as covering a vast majority of them but I will look later & maybe we can discuss it further then?

There are a lot of subtleties of goalkeeping that are covered under one attribute.

I like the Penalty saving idea, but I'm struggling to think of other PPMs that can be added, tbh. But sure, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

[westy8chimp]

1 hour ago, HUNT3R said:

There are a lot of subtleties of goalkeeping that are covered under one attribute.

I like the Penalty saving idea, but I'm struggling to think of other PPMs that can be added, tbh. But sure, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

Dealing with crosses/corners;

if I had a big strong keeper id like a PPM "tends to come and claim crosses"

if I had a shot stopper, agile keeper ... "likes to stay on line"

others;

'likes to organise defence' (I know there are command and comms attributes... but there are also dribbling/finishing attributes yet lots of ppms linked to them)

'stays big' (the schmeichel stance)

'likes to come off line' (to help the sweeper keeper role)

'likes to come forward on set plays' (to encourage them when on overload & losing)

[Tipps]

7 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

There are a lot of subtleties of goalkeeping that are covered under one attribute.

I like the Penalty saving idea, but I'm struggling to think of other PPMs that can be added, tbh. But sure, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

Just got back onto the game & looking at the keepers, for "Goalkeeping" they are judged on:-

Aerial reach, command of area, communication, eccentricity, first touch, handling, kicking, one on ones, passing, penalty TAKING, reflexes, rushing out, tendency to punch & throwing.

Through additional focus ( which I would deem as extra training) I can put any goalkeeper through:-

Fist touch, Free kicks (taking I assume), handling, kicking, passing, penalties (again taking I assume) & throwing.

So I can't do anything regarding making my keeper better at dealing with free kicks (from out wide) or corners or helping him to command his area. So this could include his positioning, his communication, his footwork or his tendency to punch (which depending on your preference), you may like your keeper to punch more if under pressure from corners, wide free kicks or crosses or you may want him to punch less in such situations.

Or saving free kicks from around the outside of the area or making him better at sorting a wall out.

Or making him better at penalty saving, this could come from him not being so nervous to face them, or him not diving early & making it easy for the penalty taker, staying big on his line.

There is no extra work that can be done on helping him increase his one on one ability yet you could easily put him through training drills to help him improve this.

Yet my goal keeping coach can apparently help my keeper score goals at any number of ways from overhead kicks, rounding the oppositions keeper while one on one or lobbing him in a similar situation (coaching my keeper to score is very unrealistic (infact I wouldn't coach it)).

You could add to that with a need to coach communication (from free kicks, corners or against a break away by the opposition).

In theory it could all be worked on in a dual basis that while the strikers are being coached on their finishing the goal keeper coach could work on the keepers during the same drills.

It just feels like there is a lot of stuff that can be done with helping to improve keepers & using the fact that we have keeper coaches in the game but we just don't seem to be utilising the whole game in real life.

Goal keepers aren't only at training to stand in the way of the strikers while they smash balls at them, they have their own training regimes as well.

 

[HUNT3R]

11 hours ago, Tipps said:

Or saving free kicks from around the outside of the area or making him better at sorting a wall out.

Or making him better at penalty saving, this could come from him not being so nervous to face them, or him not diving early & making it easy for the penalty taker, staying big on his line.

There is no extra work that can be done on helping him increase his one on one ability yet you could easily put him through training drills to help him improve this.

I don't think the ME is this sophisticated (yet) when it comes to keepers, but that's my opinion.

They can't be specifically trained to be better at saving a free kick or a penalty, but that all falls under Anticipation, Aerial Reach, Reflexes, Agility etc.

Same with free kicks from out wide. It's the same as a cross, so all those attributes apply.

I'm a keeper IRL, so I really do understand the finer details of goalkeeping. I like the trait of being a penalty stopper (or not, even!) and someone in GD also mentioned trait as a tendency to rush out (or not rush out) regardless of the ability to do so.

 

Keep in mind that this is INDIVIDUAL training. A lot of keeper training (free kick situations, 1 v 1s) need other players to become part of the training. It's not something he can do on his own and at the moment, training is too simple to add a player or players, for instance, to form a practice group. Hopefully this changes in the future. 

 

[Tipps]

 

4 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

4 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

I don't think the ME is this sophisticated (yet) when it comes to keepers, but that's my opinion.

They can't be specifically trained to be better at saving a free kick or a penalty, but that all falls under Anticipation, Aerial Reach, Reflexes, Agility etc.

Same with free kicks from out wide. It's the same as a cross, so all those attributes apply.

I'm a keeper IRL, so I really do understand the finer details of goalkeeping. I like the trait of being a penalty stopper (or not, even!) and someone in GD also mentioned trait as a tendency to rush out (or not rush out) regardless of the ability to do so.

 

Keep in mind that this is INDIVIDUAL training. A lot of keeper training (free kick situations, 1 v 1s) need other players to become part of the training. It's not something he can do on his own and at the moment, training is too simple to add a player or players, for instance, to form a practice group. Hopefully this changes in the future. 

 

Okay but while a striker can be put through additional focus of finishing, he still has umpteen extra options open to him under the player trait that all add up to finishing ability (lob the keeper, go round the keeper, overhead kick, shoot with power, place shots into the corner etc) but all add up to enhancing his finishing ability.

So why can't a keeper put extra work in on catching? Via crosses / corners, or be put through his paces on one on ones & this could help towards his anticipation or tendency to rush out?

Dealing with free kicks / corners can also help with their communication via lining up walls or positioning players where they see fit.

Lots of things that are available to strikers (and I'm just using them as an example) are covered by finishing but they have lots of ways of going about that.

A goalkeeper has lots of options open to them that can help them to improve their main attributes.

With regards to using more than one player to carry out the training, would that not be the case with a strikers training? Someone has to cross the ball for them or they have a keeper in goal to try & stop them or they have defenders to try & stop them? It's highly unlikely that players are trying to improve themselves without anyone else trying to make the scenario more real life like.

I just feel like the goalkeeping coaches are being wasted, there are so much more they can help with.

[OhHoopedOne]

Goalkeeper training has needed an overhaul for a while now, it's ridiculous that you can train and improve a player's leadership but can't work on one v ones with your goalkeeper

[Tipps]

55 minutes ago, OhHoopedOne said:

Goalkeeper training has needed an overhaul for a while now, it's ridiculous that you can train and improve a player's leadership but can't work on one v ones with your goalkeeper

Exactly what I've been trying to get at, there must be a way that a goalkeeper can use the goalkeeper coach to help him improve many facets of his game.

[OhHoopedOne]

2 minutes ago, Tipps said:

Exactly what I've been trying to get at, there must be a way that a goalkeeper can use the goalkeeper coach to help him improve many facets of his game.

It's down to a problem with training in general, it's all too vague. For example, you can work on a player's technique but can't dictate how the player or coach goes about doing this. In real life if you had a player with poor technique or a poor first touch, you could give him specific exercises like maybe 5 a sides or piggy in the middle(I forget what Barca call it) and you should be able to do something similar for a goalie.

[BlackDynamite10]

I feel like the whole training system need to be revamped and more detail added, it seems a bit too a basic at the moment. As most managers nowadays some have 2 sessions per day a morning session for something and afternoon session for conditioning, I want be be able to do those things, especially in Pre season where it'll be a huge plus in trying to get fintess up. 

Maybe also having pre set grouping for different categories which different coaches are assigned to, for example you have a finishing training section which a coach is taking and then you add the players who you want to do that training in a group and then choose how long they'll do that training for. So you have more of a long term structure to training. 

I'd also like the training to be mixed with the free kick/corner tactics where you're able to train your players up to learn set piece tactics and they have a familiarity bar for it which when it's full means you're able to score more goals in game for it .

Another feature could be after a game you have a VT training day where you (as the manager) chooses points which the players did well and bad in the previous game, this aids the progression of the players of what they're doing well/bad and have points to improve.

all of this must have an effect on overall team morale in which you can see what you're working on in training has an effect in game. I just want more detail really 😂

You can then have the option for the player to do all of this or give the assistant manager to control this if the player doesn't want that much detail 

[HUNT3R]

10 hours ago, BlackDynamite10 said:

I feel like the whole training system need to be revamped and more detail added, it seems a bit too a basic at the moment. As most managers nowadays some have 2 sessions per day a morning session for something and afternoon session for conditioning, I want be be able to do those things, especially in Pre season where it'll be a huge plus in trying to get fintess up. 

Just a point on this : As soon as the players are back from holiday, their Condition rises steadily and Match Fitness is only improved by playing matches.

With the current system you can easily do what you suggest here though, you can train Physical Attributes by setting General Team Training to Fitness and then more specific work with role/attribute Individual Training for each player.

[OhHoopedOne]

Instead of frivolous RPG like additions such as touchline managers and personal coaching stats, I would like to see a more realistic and detailed training system. One that more closely mirrors what you see in real life, giving you more control over how each individual player develops his attributes

[Neil Brock]

Reviewed so locked.