sposfan

Brand new to FM, several game and football questions.

337 posts in this topic

Gettin back to the play-offs thing.... We dutch arnt really proud of it atm, but we probably got the only premier division in the league with a european places play-off system...

This basicly means that nr 2-5 and 6-9 and 10-13 play play-offs amongst eachother to get european qualification.....

Its a bit too complicated to explain, but the fixtures are generated by final league position (so 2 vs 5, 3 vs 4, 6 vs 9, etc.).

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Weds. Morning update:

Kind of got ahead of myself a bit and played 3 quick games yesterday, leaving mostly everything in the hands of the assman. I pretty much sat back and watched, made subs and changed my formation later in the game depending on the situation.

Lost to Huddersfield 1-2, after being down 0-2 by the 34th minute, I went more offensive in the second half and scored my lone goal at the 61st minute. Was dominated in possession (I think it would qualify as dominated!) 56-44%.

Tied the next game 0-0, had several chances but couldn't convert.

lost the last game (2nd rd cup) 0-2, living up to the oddsmaker's expectations<G>. Thought the squad played ok overall, especially after having my #1 striker sent off a whopping 17 minutes into the game.

I didn't appeal the red card, and warned the player as well (which he accepted).

I can easily see how this game can suck you in. I have to keep reminding myself that this is just a 1st shot for me, and that I'll be restarting my real career soon enough, and not to worry about the results. Because of this, I'm going to start taking more control of my squad selections for matches beginning now. Once I get home from taking the kids out for Halloween, I'm going to go through my squad with a fine toothed comb to see exactly where my strengths and weaknesses lie and where improvements can be made at each position. I'll also see if I can figure out how to evaluate players basd on their stats, so expect some questions on what stats are important for which positions and what levels are historically considered good/bad/average.

My scout with high JPA came back from his 1st assignment with several recommendations, all of whom I saved to my short list to check out later. (Thanks to amaroq's other post in the thread about making a private short list, nothing in the manual or the hints and tips mentions that the default short list is public).

I've also placed adverts for coaches and assmen, and made notes about those I want to investigate further. Seeing as how this is only a short term career, I'm going to try to sign a much better assman, eat the contract of the incumbant and see what the difference is in squad selection and assistants reports.

I've also started to do more reading about deveoping my own training regimes and might try to get to that tonight too, but I have a feeling I'll give in and play another match or so! icon_smile.gif

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Originally posted by T-IceMan:

Gettin back to the play-offs thing.... We dutch arnt really proud of it atm, but we probably got the only premier division in the game with a european places play-off system... well i dno how it is with the mls of course, but well u get the idea.

This basicly means that nr 2-5 and 6-9 and 10-13 play play-offs amongst eachother to get european qualification.....

Its a bit too complicated to explain, but the fixtures are generated by final league position (so 2 vs 5, 3 vs 4, 6 vs 9, etc.).

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T-IceMan,

actually the strange thing is THAT'S the system that I understand the most, since that's what's usd here in North America!

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Ok, here's a question! (big surprise, I know!)

When I go to my squad and view the stats something strange seems to be happening. I changed the scope of the stats to overall, which should show everything, but in one category, Shots on Target Ratio, only 1 player (one of my strikers) has any ratio at all! All the rest are just dashes. Now I know that other players have taken shots AND scored, so there should be something else showing up as well. I tried changed the scope to every other option, but the only thing that seems to change is that the one player who has ANYTHING show up there has his ratio turned into a dash as well!

When I go to the indivual players, the stats are correct. My striker that shows up on the reports is 3/9 (correctly shown everywhere as 33%), but my other striker is actually 7/9, yet nothing shows up on the squad report.

Any idea what I'm missing here? I did change the scope to every possibility, so that's not it.

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(Thanks to amaroq's other post in the thread about making a private short list, nothing in the manual or the hints and tips mentions that the default short list is public).

The only problem with this is that although the AI don't know you are interested, then you won't know when the AI is interested. Basically when you have a player on your public shortlist any time a transfer bid is made you immediately get a news item telling you about it. If they are on a private list you might miss out.

If your shortlist is small enough it won't be too much grief to check their profile on a regular basis in case a bid is made as regardless of whether it is private or not all bids appear in the 'Offers' part of a player's profile. You might want to create a note with a 'Reminder Recurrence' selected (it's in the bottom right corner of the note screen).

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Originally posted by sposfan:

T-IceMan,

actually the strange thing is THAT'S the system that I understand the most, since that's what's usd here in North America!

Btw dnt ask me bout dutch promotion/relegation play-offs, they are idiotic :p, period winners etc.... Load the dutch league and look at both league's rules, thats a good read lol icon_smile.gif.

Bout what you said, if im correct in north america the nr 1 placed team does play play-offs too right? (for championship) Here the nr 1 is just champion and has automatic european qualification.

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Any idea what I'm missing here? I did change the scope to every possibility, so that's not it.

The only thing that springs to mind is that you are including friendlies in your own shot count. These stats from friendlies don't show up in the squad stats screen (why is a mystery to many long term FMers).

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Originally posted by Amaroq:

The next two Premier League Finishers (6th, 7th, 8th, or 9th, depending) who have not qualified for Europe in any other way, qualify for the Inter-Toto Cup.

A tiny nitpick; the team needs to have applied to the Inter-Toto Cup in order to get the spot. For example, Reading finished ahead of Blackburn last season, but Reading hadn't applied whereas Blackburn had.

I also think it's just one club that can qualify, and IIRC there's the added condition that the club must finish in the top 10 (So the 20th placed team couldn't qualify, even if no-one else applied).

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Thanks again, I never would have realized THAT either! I'll have to balance the pros and cons of a public vs private list. Perhaps what I'll do is put guys on my private list who I'm looking at to replace players more immediately and quietly.

Is there any benefit perhaps (or am I thinking TOO deeply?) to putting a few red herrings on my public list?

Originally posted by isuckatfm:

The only problem with this is that although the AI don't know you are interested, then you won't know when the AI is interested. Basically when you have a player on your public shortlist any time a transfer bid is made you immediately get a news item telling you about it. If they are on a private list you might miss out.

If your shortlist is small enough it won't be too much grief to check their profile on a regular basis in case a bid is made as regardless of whether it is private or not all bids appear in the 'Offers' part of a player's profile. You might want to create a note with a 'Reminder Recurrence' selected (it's in the bottom right corner of the note screen).

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Crap, that was it. Stupid of me. Thanks!

Originally posted by isuckatfm:

The only thing that springs to mind is that you are including friendlies in your own shot count. These stats from friendlies don't show up in the squad stats screen (why is a mystery to many long term FMers).

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T-IceMan,

correct, the #1 team participated in the playoffs, although in certain leagues they are given a bye through the first round.

Originally posted by T-IceMan:

Btw dnt ask me bout dutch promotion/relegation play-offs, they are idiotic :p, period winners etc.... Load the dutch league and look at both league's rules, thats a good read lol icon_smile.gif.

Bout what you said, if im correct in north america the nr 1 placed team does play play-offs too right? (for championship) Here the nr 1 is just champion and has automatic european qualification.

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Is there any benefit perhaps (or am I thinking TOO deeply?) to putting a few red herrings on my public list?

I don't think it works like that. Basically every club works exactly like yours (or so SI claim but I have my doubts icon_wink.gif). So every club is only aware of players based on the scouting knowledge they have. I don't believe placing a player on your shortlist will suddenly make other teams jump up and take notice of a player.

My experience of being able to buy many a potential superstar without competition on FM07 suggests to me that this is the case but I haven't gotten far enough in 08 to know if this still applies.

But here is the kicker. When you really get into the game it will give the appearance of this being the case. For example I have on numerous games looked at a player and seen no other clubs interested, only for me to make a bid and suddenly multiple clubs suddenly start bidding aswell. This is particularly common when trying to get players on loan. This will most likely annoy the hell out of you and convince you that the AI is cheating (no smilie or winkie to indicate sarcasm as that is exactly how it feels).

Now the logical explanation, based on the assumption that the AI managers have the same tools available, is that they too had these players on their private shortlists. Then once you made a bid they became aware of this via the 'Offers' part of the profile. Unfortunately the downside to this is it offers the AI a huge advantage because the AI is essentially a computer and can do this way more efficiently than you or I. For example if I have 20 players on myshortlist to click through each of them and check their profile takes 40 clicks which the AI can do in a nano second.

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isuckatfm,

thank you again (and again, and again, and again.. <G&gticon_wink.gif

Perhaps what I'll do is put my few main guys on a private list and everyone else on the main list. Th private list will be much more manageable with just a few select names.

As for the "cheating" of the AI, my games of choice are sports text sims and wargames and in my opinion, the one advantage an AI has over a human (besides any programmed advantages) is the amount of processing it can do compared to us lowly mortals, so I don't really count that as cheating. Unless of course, it adversely affects me in any shape, way or form, at which point the computer suffers my wrath! icon_smile.gif

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There will certainly be times when you'll suspect that the game is cheating. There will, for instance, be strings of matches where you seem to run into super-keepers every time, saving everything you throw at them - despite said keepers having the stats of semi-drunk Sunday league players. The game must be cheating!

But in such events it's usually just a case of coincidence combined with selective memory, because there will be just as many matches in your career where your own keeper makes multiple seemingly impossible saves, but you'll store those in your brain in the "my brilliant tactic paid off" category.

icon_smile.gif

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CoachFlu,

Exactly! In my other main game (DMB baseball), it's the same. From time to time people will complain about something being out of whack, that they noticed a certain event or play by play showing up too much or not at all, but after actually keeping track of it, they find that all is proper. Factual evidence always trumps anecdotal evidence.

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Just thought I should clarify that I don't think the game is cheating it just feels like it is.

To draw a comparison with real life if your team had scaled the heights from the conference south and were competing in their first Champions League Final, only to have a man sent off in the first ten minutes you would curse the ref and blame the gods of football for your bad luck.

But as much as I try to become immersed and feel like it is real life, when something like this happens in FM it is my immediate gut reaction. In real life curse the ref, in FM curse the AI who just happens to control the ref and the opposing team (a brown envelope changing hands perhaps icon_smile.gif). Sometimes it just feels like one giant conspiracy to f you over and the AI is in on the joke. In some respects it's a testament to the game that it makes me that mad. Most other games I've played that felt like that ended up back in their box never to see the light of day again.

I agree whole heartedly with the selective memory thing because I will admit for a while I was firmly in the AI cheats camp and was convinced that in every 2nd match the AI was scoring with the bare minimum while I was bombarding their goal to no avail regardless of the quality of their goalkeeper. But then I actually starting keeping track of the stats (yes I am very very sad and yes I have too much time on my hands) and it turned out that although I would get a few of those 'dominated but still didn't win' matches, over the course of any given season I was having a higher % of goals scored from shots on target than the AI.

Sorry I took this thread way off topic. Any more questions icon_biggrin.gif

Yeah, do you have any idea how hard it is to get to "Third Team" by only posting constructive posts?

Would you like me to e-mail my posts to you prior to actually posting. Far be it for me to prevent a forum legend from reaching a higher karma status icon_wink.gif

Then again you could try putting each paragraph of your Rusty Blade stories in separate posts. I'm sure that would get you motoring towards that "Third Team" status icon_biggrin.gif

Or use the following in the good players guide

"He's fb. Had him in my Arsenal team and he kicked ass"

I'm not being sarcastic here. Just check my posting history icon_biggrin.gif

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Originally posted by isuckatfm:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Yeah, do you have any idea how hard it is to get to "Third Team" by only posting constructive posts?

Would you like me to e-mail my posts to you prior to actually posting. Far be it for me to prevent a forum legend from reaching a higher karma status icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Laughed-MAO at this - couldn't post for about three minutes after reading! icon_biggrin.gif

But I'll have to decline, I just wouldn't feel right about acquiring it illicitly. I could always go over to OT and post lots of smilies. icon_wink.gif

Then again you could try putting each paragraph of your Rusty Blade stories in separate posts. I'm sure that would get you motoring towards that "Third Team" status icon_biggrin.gif

Well, I thought about that, but I don't think anybody would start a story that was 1,592 pages long.... icon_wink.gif

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I could always go over to OT and post lots of smilies

I didn't realise the OT forum counted towards karma as well. Maybe because there are different mods on each forum with the right strategy I could reach International Squad in double quick time. All I'd have to do is space the smilies out and spread them across the forums so no one would get suspicious.

Maybe then I'll get some respect around here icon_wink.gif

Look Maw!!!I made it!!Top of the world!!

Well, I thought about that, but I don't think anybody would start a story that was 1,592 pages long....

It beats working any day of the week.

*hears his Boss from across the room "Are you looking at porn again?*

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(Blatant +1!)

Yeah, its actually OTF-regulars who wind up with the really massive Karma ratings.

And thanks for the compliment on the story; its taken a lot of willpower for me *not* get sucked into FMS while at work... icon_wink.gif

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Actually, that's another thing that pulled me in finally, the Rusty Blade.

Taking the kids out for Halloween, more FM later! icon_smile.gif

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quick update. something went screwy with my ISP, and have been without the net since my last post. Should be fixed today. Played several more games and of course, have several more questions as soon as I'm reconnected as home!

freaking computers!!!!

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Finally back online!

Played 2 games, lost my league game 2-3 and lost my Johnstone Paint match on penalties.

Patched the game, so far my favourite fix by far is that it remembers which coach I used for my reports when I flip from player to player.

Started on my training scheds, and also to seriously scout my own team, using all the coaches reports available, as well as my own eyes and the players' stats so far.

I also found out the hard way that if you have any filters on when you ask a coach to select the squad it will ONLY select from those players who meet those filters. I had the coach select the team, then advanced to the match preview and read that my starting DC was my starting GK!!!! Couldn't figure out how THAT happened, and I couldn't back out of that game, so I had to alt-ctrl-delete out of FM and restart. Luckily, the only thing I had done since boot up was select the roster. I didn't realize what happened so, dumbarse that I am, I did the exact same thing again, and AGAIN had to alt-ctrl-delete out of it, but this time I figured it out!

Argghh!!!

Also, I'm posting the link to the other great recent newbie thread for any others that need it!

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&f=521102691&m=5432057753

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Scouting my Squad

I'm obviously NOT going to post my entire squad here, just a few select guys, their attributes, main coach report and my own opinions, mainly to get feedback from you mavens if I'm going about this all wrong!

My GK

-Was my first transfer!

-19years old and already better than my incumbent according to all my staff.

-6 feet tall, 176 lbs

My scout with the highest JPA says he has the potential to be a "good league 2 GK" and gives him 4 stars on his potential, which, if I understand correctly, means he has the potential to be prefectly avg. for my squad ( a league 1 team)

his attributes:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>

command:12

communication: 10

Handling:14

kicking:11

one on ones:12

reflexed:15

rushing out: 7

Punching: 13

throwing:12

eccentricity:4

anticipation:6

composure:7

bravery: 17

concentration:11

creativity: 12

decisions: 12

determination:11

flair: 5

influence: 10

off the ball: 2

positioning: 11

team work:6

work rate: 7

agil: 10

bal: 8

jump: 9

natural fitness: 8

pace: 9

stamina: 5

strength: 9

Now I seem to disagree with my staff on his potential (my scout with the highest JPA is rated 16, by the way, so no slouch).

According to what I've read, themost important skills for a GK include: positioning, command of area, handling, stamina, reflexes, jumping, strength, decisions and arial ability, as well as concentration, composure, bravery and anticipation.

I believe, with the proper training, that as 19 yr old he has a lot of room for growth, especially seeing how keepers hit their peak later than other positions.

For league 1, I believe his command of area (12), handling (14), reflexes (15), bravery (17), decisions (12), positioning (11), concentration (11) are avg to solid.

His weaknesses are his strength, stamina, and jumping, all of which I believe I can pump up by tweaking his training to focus more on Strength and Aerobics.

I think the following skills are pretty irrelevant to GKs: Flair, creativity, eccentricity, all of which he scores low in, but doesn't worry me in the least.

I wish his teamwork(6) and workrate(7) were higher, along with his composure (7), but I'm hoping these will go up as he matures, or am I reading too much into the game here?

His low anticipation score (6) also worries me a bit, I assume this will affect penalties? Also his rushing out (7) leaves a bit to be desired as well.

so... am I scouting GKs properly here, or is my scout a much better judge of talent than I am? Am I correct in my assumptions about aging and maturity affecting some mental skills positively? Any thoughts on a training regimen for him, or am I on the right track with ratcheting up his aerobics and strengths as well as his tactics ( anticipation) and GK?

Would his low work rate and Natural fitness adversely affect his growth and training?

Right now, he's also my starting GK, so getting a ton of game time which should hasten his development.

One interesting side note is that he is on the Polish U-19 team, was called away and played one match... as a defensive midfielder?!?!?!!?

His stats to date are:

League 4 apps, 6 conceded, 1 clean sheet, 1MoM form:6-7-7-6

Cup: 3 Apps, 3 concded, 1 clean sheet. form 7-7-6

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Originally posted by sposfan:

so... am I scouting GKs properly here, or is my scout a much better judge of talent than I am?

Both.

Overall, your reasoning is good. (Though I'd also add agility and balance to the useful-skills-for-goalies list.)

But on the other hand, yes, trust your scouts. Not blindly, they do get it wrong from time to time. But they won't get it far wrong. If they rate him as a good L2 potential goalie, it's possible that they judge him a touch on the low side and he'll do just fine in L1, but it's highly doubtful that he'll become a world class player.

I don't remember if CA and PA were properly explained in this thread yet.

CA = Current Ability; PA = Potential Ability.

Both are numbers between 1 and 200. They're hidden (you can find them with third party apps, but that'd be cheating.) Pretty self-evident what they stand for.

It's not nearly as simple as adding them all up, but there is a link between a player's Current Ability and all his attributes. (So a player with a very low CA will not have great attributes, or vice versa.)

CA is a variable, PA is not. As a player trains/gets match experience etc., his CA will raise, which will be reflected in his attributes rising also. But CA will never be able to rise above PA.

Attributes can still change for players who are at their full potential. If you train them hard in one area, those attributes can rise, but some others will drop then, to balance things out.

So when your scout talks about a player's ability and future potential, he's referring to these two hidden numbers, CA and PA. They can get it wrong sometimes, but if it's a good scout, trust him to be at least not very far off.

That said, these CA and PA numbers aren't everything. To some extent, a player with a lower CA but with high numbers in the right attributes for his position can perform consistently better than one with a higher CA but spread out over a bunch of semi-useless attributes.

So, as with many things in this game, it's a bit of a judgment call. Your scout is one - very helpful - tool to judge a player, his attributes are another, and the way he performs in matches another.

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CoachFlu,

Thanks for the lesson! Although I played EHM, Apparently my brain never properly engaged and carried that over to FM!

To summarize, scouts ONLY look at PA and CA when judging a player's overall current abilities and potential, and the higher the scouts rating in JPA and JCA, the more accurate he will be in those departments, although there is always room for the possibility of some error, but they more or less look at the player as a whole, including some attributes that might not be very relevant to that player's position, which could also skew their view a bit.

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Yep, pretty much.

The top two sections (ability and potential) in a coach or scout report are their verbal representations of the CA and PA numbers (compared to other players in your squad and/or the level of specific leagues). Then in the other sections they go into some strengths and weaknesses etc.

So their general views are a good general indicator to start from, and then you can have a closer look at the player's attributes and the way they performed in matches to get a more detailed perspective about a player's qualities and usefulness to your team.

At least, that's pretty much how I look at it.

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Thank you again! Going to get some more games and scouting in while watching some American Football later this afternoon, more updates to come!

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Sorry, too drunk to answer well last evening. icon_biggrin.gif

For "How do Scouts work?" you might want to see Clarification: Coaches perception on player potential/ability in FM08, which was a pretty good thread... and included an SI official response.

It definitely indicated that coaches and scouts base their report not just on CA and PA, but on other factors as well, and are likely to be wrong - "trust your scout" was 100% solid advice for FM'05-'07, but if the recommendations from that thread have been taken, there will be more emphasis on "trust your own judgment" in FM'08.

For specific goalkeeper attributes, I'd rate them as follows:

Reflexes: Shot-stopping

Handling: Ability to prevent a rebound by catching the ball.

Concentration: Ability to not get caught wool-gathering, to be focused; especially important if your team is very strong and conceding few goals.

Decisions: If he's making poor decisions, nothing else is going to help.

Anticipation: Ability to see the play developing, e.g., to be aware of the guy crashing the back post when everybody else's focus is on the near post.

Aerial Ability: SI have indicated that this comes into play on every single shot to the top half of the net; you can't afford for it to be weak.

Balance & Agility: Ability to keep on his feet, scramble back to his feet, etc. I suspect Acceleration is also important here.

Eccentricity: A negative attribute; a 'keeper with high Eccentricity will "go walkabout", doing things like trying to dribble his way out of trouble, etc. Low low low is what you want here, though I've heard some people say that they think high eccentricity leads to more tremendously dramatic saves.

Communication, Teamwork, Command of Area: Ability to "organize the defense", to bring the most out of his defenders.

Rushing Out and One on Ones: Dealing with two specific situations, but important ones.

Beyond that, Bravery, Jumping, Strength, Stamina, and Composure are all nice, but not what I would be using as a litmus test for a player.

Work Rate and Determination are two mental keys to my side; I try to get youths who score high in both.

As for your assumptions, he sounds pretty good - those attributes at that age sound very strong to me, and assuming he has some potential to grow there's no reason to expect that he couldn't get the job done at the League One level.

The low Anticipation would worry me the most, out of all of the attributes you've talked about.

My GK training is heavy on tactics and GK; I think mental development is very key. For this guy specifically you might add a layer of physical development, that sounds like the right way to approach creating a specific training schedule for an individual.

Keep in mind that performance and development are both strongly linked to Morale, so if your team is struggling and conceding a lot (with or without him), and his Morale is dropping, that isn't helping; if you can get him in for a run of good form that should help a lot.

As for the Polish U-19 coach playing him as a MC, there's been a long-standing bug in international play which seems to impact that, especially for teams with a lot of grey players as I imagine a Poland youth team might be. Managing Argentina once I saw a team start one GK in goal and another in the field, and then inexplicably switch them while the original starter was playing a blinder, doing his best impression of a brick wall. Luckily the other guy conceded several. icon_wink.gif

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Thanks again for the reply Amaroq and I hope the hangover is gone in time for the Pats/Colts game today! I've a massive jar of pretzels and my beer in the fridge (sorry guys, no warm beer for me! <G&gticon_wink.gif

Thanks for the link, I read it before, but totally forgot about it, I love the "favourites" tool in the forum, it's a huge boon to a newbie like myself.

From what I read in that thread and your feedback, as well as what I think I see, I'll stick with the GK for a while and see if I can outscout my scout! icon_smile.gif

One clarification if I may, I was looking at composure for my GK as an attribute that would help him "keep his cool" and possibly make some big saves, as opposed to panicking and blowing a key shot. Am I right in that thinking, or am I thinking too much here?

Played yet another league game, losing 2-3 to a team much higher in the standings, so I'm not too upset. I did get to comment on a potential bad call by the ref and this time I criticized him and got a warning from the FA! icon_smile.gif

I spnt most of the game watching a MR I rec'd on loan from my parent club, this boy can RUN, and he's my best corner taker. I'm going to see if I can possibly tweak my tactics a bit so that at least in the first half I can have him be my primary threat carrying the ball up the field. He consistently runs past a ton of defenders and I'll also try tweaking his training to improve his passing and crossing.

A few more QUESTIONS, if I may icon_smile.gif

Player called away for int'l play. How long are they gone. Are they only gone the days that the int'l team plays, or will they be gone the entire time? For instance, my GK is on int'l duty, says 2 games a week apart. Will he be gone the entire time?

Playing out of position vs training for a new position. Not that I'm planning on doing this anytime soon, but it is something I thought about. Am I better off training a player to play at a new position, or simply play him out of position? Would another aspect to take into consideration be how closely his normal position resembles his "new" position, ie a MR playing AMR, vs a MR playing DC?

Training: just a few general questions. I'm thinking of setting it up as several different regimens.

One for each position, or combined in the case of similar positions. In addition I plan on having some specific regimens, say with an emphasis on offense, or defense, or set pieces etc, and then finally some individual regimens as well, such as for my young GK, as describd previously. Is this the way most people are doing it, or is this total overkill?

Finally, my plans for training is not to simply slot a player in his positional training, but rather to focus on things he does NOT do well for his position, while attempting to maintain his levels (or increase them much more slowly) is the attributes he is already ok in. For example, if my striker is already say a 15 in long shots and finishing, but a 6 in first touch and dribbling, would I be better off keeping his shooting training to light (or at the level where he can at the very least maintain his current level), and ramping up his training to improve his first touch and dribbling OR do I play to his strengths, and focus on shooting, while trying to improve his other attributes slowly or not at all?

Thanks again for all the help, this game has totally sucked me in!

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One clarification if I may, I was looking at composure for my GK as an attribute that would help him "keep his cool" and possibly make some big saves, as opposed to panicking and blowing a key shot. Am I right in that thinking, or am I thinking too much here?

I used to think like this as well that composure mattered for everyone as it would in real life. But I have now come to the conclusion that because it is only affected by the 'shooting training' then it only matters in finishing scenarios for players taking the shot. Otherwise why would the programmers specifically link it to the shooting training if it wasn't treated like that in the match engine? That's my leap of logic anyway.

Playing out of position vs training for a new position. Not that I'm planning on doing this anytime soon, but it is something I thought about. Am I better off training a player to play at a new position, or simply play him out of position? Would another aspect to take into consideration be how closely his normal position resembles his "new" position, ie a MR playing AMR, vs a MR playing DC?

From real life football it is about a player's comfort in a position. For example 'positioning': a dm with 20 positioning will be outstanding at taking the right positions as a dm but play him at centre back and he won't position himself as well as a centre half with positioning 20 (a well known real life example of this for Premiership fans was Michael Essien at Chelsea last season who got shifted to centre back because of an injury crisis and looked like a square peg in a round hole at times). How the game treats this I am not sure but I have a feeling that the relative comfort in a position (competent etc) acts as an fractional multiplier of mental attributes. So in the dm case his positioning gets modified by (1/x) where x is a measure of how comfortable he is in that position (that's my theory on it anyway).

Sometimes your financial constraints and squad will determine whether or not to do this. I generally look for players that don't have 'only' in their preferred foot when training them for the opposite side. There is a hidden attribute called versatility that impacts on how well a player trains in a new position and whether they can keep that position if they stop training/playing that position. Basically it's a function of games played in the position (this is shown in the player profile), quality of training and versatility.

As for those two questions you asked it is like you are reading my mind. I have two posts asking about these very same things I just haven't bothered to post.

Player called away for int'l play. How long are they gone. Are they only gone the days that the int'l team plays, or will they be gone the entire time? For instance, my GK is on int'l duty, says 2 games a week apart. Will he be gone the entire time?

The player will have a 'Trv' icon next to his name to indicate they are still making their way back to the club. This was introduced as people on here were saying how unrealistic it was that players would be in Brazil playing a friendly and the next day would be available to their club in England showing no ill effects.

Training: just a few general questions. I'm thinking of setting it up as several different regimens.

One for each position, or combined in the case of similar positions. In addition I plan on having some specific regimens, say with an emphasis on offense, or defense, or set pieces etc, and then finally some individual regimens as well, such as for my young GK, as describd previously. Is this the way most people are doing it, or is this total overkill?

Training is one aspect of the game that everyone has different opinions on and swear by them. For me personally I found that anytime I specialised training injuries increased to an unacceptable level so since 07 I just leave them on the general one (with small modifications) as this appears to reduce the number of injuries. Again it is an area of the game where you can play around with it to find your own level that balances injuries with improvement to an acceptable level for you. There's a post in the Tactics and Training forum you might want to take a look at

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1519717/m/1602088653

From reading the forums most people do use specialised training schedules. Some even make specific schedules for every player. You can if you want even assign a specific coach to a specific player but as you are playing in League 1 I don't think you have the resources for this to be a viable option (just my opinion).

Finally, my plans for training is not to simply slot a player in his positional training, but rather to focus on things he does NOT do well for his position, while attempting to maintain his levels (or increase them much more slowly) is the attributes he is already ok in. For example, if my striker is already say a 15 in long shots and finishing, but a 6 in first touch and dribbling, would I be better off keeping his shooting training to light (or at the level where he can at the very least maintain his current level), and ramping up his training to improve his first touch and dribbling OR do I play to his strengths, and focus on shooting, while trying to improve his other attributes slowly or not at all?

Gains in attributes are limited by the Current Ability/Potential Ability model which assigns attributes based on a nominal value. So if a player has reached their maximum potential you can only redistribute attribute points from the CA. Different attributes are given different weightings based on position relevance. I have always been convinced that physical attributes take up more CA points but others disagree.

I have found so far on 08 that playing time is way more important for developing attributes. In my current game I have left the training at the default level yet some of my first team youngsters have come on leaps and bounds where they had potential ability to gain from getting regular first team football.

Like I said if in your striker example he is already at his full playing potential then the game will take points from other attributes to increase the ones who have a higher training intensity. The best thing to do is to keep an eye on their attributes with 'show effects of training'. It generally takes 1 to 2 months for the game to begin to show the impact of changing a training schedule.

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Isuckatfm,

thank you for taking the time to post all that! I checked out the thread you mentioned as well and it's a huge help! It seems to confirm what I was thinking, that I could possibly reshape players a bit to conform with my system that I want to implement. Ok, to be truthful, that the assman wants to implement! icon_smile.gif

This is definitely something I will play with. It seems that the way Rashidi and some others are doing it is to have some positional regimens more or less and then some player or attribute specific ones as well for certain specific players.

One thing I think I will do is, when I start my real career, is decide on a basic formation and style of play based on my current personnel and then stick with it. Being a league one team with limited resources, I think it will be a lot easier to find players who fit my system, despite having certain weaknesses than to bring in some better players and tweak the system to fit them, especially over the long run. Based on what I read AND what I know of sports, the longer you stick with a system the better the players will play within it and there are always great values to be had looking for those overall imperfect players, who can fit your system well. It's also a lot easier to find players to fit a system than to keep finding a system to fit the players, especially at my level, with loaned players making up a good part of my squad and thus not around for the long haul.

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lol, yet another quick question. If I do indeed do away with my youth teams, shouldn't I, by extension, get rid of my youth coach for another first team coach, or should I keep my youth coach for working out my younger players.

Actually, writing about this, aren't I correct that I remember reading (I've done a LOT reading lately on FM! icon_smile.gif ) that a youth coach is ONLY for my youth team?

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Bleah, it was a pretty awful day for a man rooting for the Chargers and Colts. icon_frown.gif

Regarding the MR, you might look at the "Focus Passing Down the Right" tactical option.

Am I better off training a player to play at a new position, or simply play him out of position? Would another aspect to take into consideration be how closely his normal position resembles his "new" position, ie a MR playing AMR, vs a MR playing DC?

Okay, for short-term work, e.g., covering in for an injury crisis, just play him out of position; training him for the new position takes too long.

For long-term work, if I get a young player with potential who doesn't play one of the positions I used him at, I spend the time training him on his new position. Instead of seeing attributes rise as he gains CA, I see positional-comfort rise. If that makes sense. He's expending his "learning" on the new position, not attributes. Its still worth doing.

I do believe position-similarity is key to how well he learns, also the player's "adaptability" rating is key. (Hidden, I think? Maybe "Versatility" as isuckatfm says?)

Note that you can get the benefits of "playing in a comfortable" position by use of an arrow or barrow; for example, an MR who knows no other position can be extremely effective with a MR->AMR farrow; he would be ineffective if you just played him at AMR outright.

For example, if my striker is already say a 15 in long shots and finishing, but a 6 in first touch and dribbling, would I be better off keeping his shooting training to light (or at the level where he can at the very least maintain his current level), and ramping up his training to improve his first touch and dribbling OR do I play to his strengths, and focus on shooting, while trying to improve his other attributes slowly or not at all?

I'd build my tactics around his "strengths", but I'd want to make sure my training regime took care of any "fatal flaws" - in this case, first touch and dribbling are pretty key for a striker, so I'd have him on remedial training for that area.

A better example might have been a striker who has 15 in first touch, dribbling, and pace, but a 5 in jumping and heading. You don't want to bother trying to train him to be an aerial threat - he's already awesome on the ground, and even if you work on the air for several years he'll barely get to "passable" in them.

One thing I think I will do is, when I start my real career, is decide on a basic formation and style of play based on my current personnel and then stick with it.

I'd pick your ideal formation, full stop, and buy/shape players to fit it.

I might use a different formation when I first take over a club, based on its current personnel, but I'm already thinking about my preferred tactic and how to shift the club over to it.

Other than that, yes, there's a benefit to sticking with the same system, and definitely in the mid-level leagues you can find players whose "fatal flaws" are in skills you won't be asking them to perform; that's a very good overall strategy.

Yeah, a youth coach is only for your youth team; you'll do better by offering him a new contract as a regular coach - neither "youth" nor "first team" - who can work equally with players on any squad.

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Thanks again Amaroq!

Played 2 more games and played with a few screens as well. I'm "wasting" time searching and scouting players and staff to get a better idea of what level I'm looking at for my squad, as well as checking out other teams in league 1 to see how I compare to them and what they're doing.

Both games were league games, in the first one against a team slightly above me in the standings was missing my top striker, off playing for the Aussies and another suspended player. I tweaked a few team instructions, moving to a slightly more defensive style and focusing my passing to the right flank, where my MR has shown that he can run past defenders.

My backup striker, inserted for his first start, came through in a massive way with a hat trick in the opening half as I jumped to a 3-0 lead. Come halftime, I tweaked my team instructions again, ratcheting up the Time Wasting slider and also going to shorter passes, in an effort to minimize mistakes and maximize possession, and cruised to a 3-0 victory!! also slightly tweaked the assman's recommendation for team talks for a few players who I thought stood out, as well as for a sub who played little, but did ok. My thinking in praising the sub was that his rating was lower than it should have been, mainly due to his little actual playing time.

Game 2. I kept the pregame sliders exactly where they were (more defensive, focusing on the right flank) and was about to go to the half with a 0-0 tie against a much stronger opponent when they scored in injury time. ARRRGGHHHHH!!!!!!! They tacked on another in the 2nd half and I was shutout, losing 0-2.

Tonight I intend to go through my squad, trying to figure out what's working and what's not, taking a close look at stats and all. I also want to see if I can renegotiate some contracts. I looked at the squad status view and realized that despite making lineup changes, I have neglected to update the players' squad status, so I will be doing this, especially for those I have shifted to a backup role and try to renegotiate a better contract (read: cheaper!) based on their new status.

No real luck getting a better assman, I had a few nibbles, two better than my incumbent, but it cost too much. Of course, I SHOULD just do it, since I'll be restarting my career once the final patch is in, and I just decided I will do it, no matter what the cost, just to see the differences between the 2 assmen.

One thing I wish I could do would be to export the player profiles to Excel or something to print out and have a hard copy of. I suppose I could just design a quick sheet and enter all the data manually, but that seriously goes about my lazy, procrastinating ways! <G>

One small QUESTION: does morale changes from an int'l match carry over when they return to my squad? For instance my striker scored a hat trick for Australia, and that should obviously improve his morale, but will it actually do so, or is Int'l games considered a different beast.

Any other suggestions or hints of other facets I should be checking out?

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One small QUESTION: does morale changes from an int'l match carry over when they return to my squad? For instance my striker scored a hat trick for Australia, and that should obviously improve his morale, but will it actually do so, or is Int'l games considered a different beast.

I believe club and international morale has been seperated for this version of FM. So if this seperation is "total" then the hattrick wont positively affect his next league game(s).

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One thing I wish I could do would be to export the player profiles to Excel or something to print out and have a hard copy of. I suppose I could just design a quick sheet and enter all the data manually, but that seriously goes about my lazy, procrastinating ways! <G>

There is a way to do it but you will only get whats visible on screen. Go to your squad screen and select what attributes you want to view. Go to Options>Print Screen. Select web page and you can then import the html file into Excel.

One small QUESTION: does morale changes from an int'l match carry over when they return to my squad? For instance my striker scored a hat trick for Australia, and that should obviously improve his morale, but will it actually do so, or is Int'l games considered a different beast.

Yes. Just like real life morale is morale. It is one of the reasons I wish there was more one on one player interaction outside of form comments to the press. Countless times I've had good runs of form destroyed by players returning from internationals with crap morale. My tendency to sign potential stars from the lesser nations exacerbates this problem. Best thing to do is kiss their ass in the pre match team talk if their morale is rubbish. Some people argue that this depends on personality so if a 'determined' player has crap morale you can still say 'expect a performance' and get a good performance. That's never been my experience of it but you just have to try and get a feel for your squad. You can get really anal about it and record pre match odds, morale, rating and what team talk you gave throughout a season to get a better understanding. I tried once but got bored with the tedium pretty quickly. Plus I find it difficult to know if it is the team talk or tactics or differences in player quality that make the difference in any given match.

Any other suggestions or hints of other facets I should be checking out?

Nothing I can think of springs to mind but based on what you did tactically in your first match above you know more about what you are doing than I do icon_smile.gif

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I believe club and international morale has been seperated for this version of FM. So if this seperation is "total" then the hattrick wont positively affect his next league game(s).

Sorry that wasn't posted when I started to reply. I guess I just assumed it was the same as 07 in 08.

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Originally posted by sposfan:

bodis, thanks for the quick reply!

No worries icon14.gif

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Originally posted by isuckatfm:

Nothing I can think of springs to mind but based on what you did tactically in your first match above you know more about what you are doing than I do icon_smile.gif

Flattery will get you everywhere! icon_smile.gif

I've actually revised my schedule for tonight, going to ty out tactics instead. Reread the manual on what each slider is for and try to figure out what instructions are complementary and which are contradictory. One problem I can see is trying to see the differences when I change a slider setting, since I'd assume I'd have to watch several games for each change.

I have a bunch of great links already "favourited" in the tactics and training forum also, some of which I've already printed out and we'll take it from there. Expect another slew of questions in the next few days!

Actually here's another one: Should I start a new thread in the tactics forum for any tactic questions or simply add-on here. I will most likely asking more general type questions and will try to stay away from specific questions.

I'll also try to figure out who to set as my freekick takers and other set piece players.

So much to learn! Thank goodness for all the help you've all given or I'd be totally overwhelmed!

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Actually here's another one: Should I start a new thread in the tactics forum for any tactic questions or simply add-on here. I will most likely asking more general type questions and will try to stay away from specific questions.

Try to post you tactic specific questions in the T&T forum in previously opened and active threads, or start a new one if you cant find aything recent/relevant.

All general stuff goes in here of course icon_smile.gif

Good luck, it sounds as if you'll do well with all the research you're doing.

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Sorry for the lack of updates. I definitely haven't given up, but have been doing a lot of reading about tactics and training and the like and trying to figure out what does what and which attributes are important for which tactics. The manual is actually well written and offers good explanations and the T&T forum has a ton of good threads as well.

More questions to come! icon_smile.gif

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Originally posted by sposfan:

Sorry for the lack of updates. I definitely haven't given up, but have been doing a lot of reading about tactics and training and the like and trying to figure out what does what and which attributes are important for which tactics. The manual is actually well written and offers good explanations and the T&T forum has a ton of good threads as well.

More questions to come! icon_smile.gif

Watching alot of football helps when it comes to playing this game, nothing like the real thing!

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One thing I did just find out (well, ok, Rashidi posted it, but >I< found the post! <G&gticon_wink.gif is to try to get my scout with a high JCA to also have a strong tactical knowledge in order to be able to possibly get better scouting reports of my next opponent.

Thanks for the all help and helpful threads!

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Campbell,

I have watched more football in the past month or so than in my entire life to this point! icon_smile.gif Luckily I get 2 channels that are devoted to football!

Problem is that what you see on TV doesn't always give you a great idea of what's going on overall. It focuses and follows the ball and as an added factor, not knowing the players or their positions (although for the most part I can figure that out based on their placement on the pitch) also makes it more difficult.

Luckily, there is a professional team in Montreal, and I'm going to try to get to some games next season.

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Any more updates coming soon Sposfan? I'd like to see how this forum's prodigy is coming along.

Anyway, I know earlier on in this thread you said something about this being a short term game so you can get used to the game. Is that still the case? Or are you planing to have this as a long term game.

I'm asking mainly out of curiosity, but if it's a long term game, youth development is obviously more important that it would be in a short term game

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