Brand new to FM, several game and football questions.

[sposfan]

amack1n,

thank you again, and again you're correct, it's hard to say what someone would hve done differently without knowing at least some important details. I should have said "all things being equal" since there are so many variables involved.

As you assumed, I was more interested if my reasoning was right (ie. playing on a smaller pitch, with the scouting report what it was and with the strength of my team (I think!) being my defenders down the middle.

You guys have no idea just how informative and helpful all these tips and critiques are. I cannot say that enough. If it weren't for you and amaroq's emails while trying the demo, I would probably not have stuck with it, simply due to the overwhelming about of information I had both process and understand.

I'm definitely concentrating much more on MY team and what they can and cannot do, but in the next few matches, I plan on doing some more scouting of my opponents, to see what their stregnths and weaknesses are too, and also looking a bit into the training module.

In regards to the training though, I think I'll start with the youth team training, since with only 1 player worth keeping there, if I mess it up, it won't be that big of a deal for my club on the whole.

I'm also in the search for a better assman and coaches, especially since I'm going to be relying on them for my tactics and most of my gameday lineups for the foreseeable future, and learn the tactics by watching my games and tweak them during a match to see some cause and effects.

I did a staff search, but I think I'll be placing an advert as well, at least for the assman. As for the coaches, I'll do what I did for scouts, that is instead of looking for someone with strong numbers across the board who will likely be too expensive to sign, I'll try to find 2 coaches that complement the assman and each other, so that it will almost have the effect of giving me one good coach. My GK coach is strong enough to survive the purge.

In regards to subs, I'll definitely go through my squad and make sure I have enough utility players to cover most if not all positions, while also allowing me to change to a more offensive or defensive setup, depending on game conditions. Being a lower league team, I have a hunch that some if not most of my subs will have to be younger players (since they're less expensive), which will also allow me to groom them slowly giving them actual match time in senior games.

More to come, I'm sure!

[sposfan]

As a follow up to Rathen's question, would going with a 15 man squad, and keeping most of the younger players on the reserve squad, making them available for senior games a week at a time (on a rotating basis) keep them happier rather than promoting and demoting them on a rotating basis from senior to reserve squad? My thinking would be that this way, since they are not being demoted or worse, yoyoed up and down, they might see it as a reward only.

Also by not having a larger squad, the younger players who would then be placed on the reserve squad, would benefit by playing in the reserve games as opposed to possibly stagnating their development on the senior bench.

Or, as usual, am I just blowing smoke here?

[amack1n]

You can keep players in the reserves (or youth) team and still play them in first team football. I don't know if doing that instead of calling a player up to the first team before demoting him will be better on his morale. I assume there would be little to no difference.

And you're spot on about giving the youngsters game. As you said, having them play regular reserve matches gives them much more match practice and helps their development than having them watch the first team from the bench.

"In regards to the training though, I think I'll start with the youth team training, since with only 1 player worth keeping there, if I mess it up, it won't be that big of a deal for my club on the whole."

Evn though it's your first proper game, I'd suggest doing all the training schedules at once for two reasons. Firstly, it's very difficult to actually get it wrong and secondly, any time spent on the default sessions is time wasted.

Training schedules are the main part of the game which can (and should) be saved and used on every game you start. Below is how I arrange my training.

Goalkeeper Training - Concentrate on Goalkeeping, aerobic and strength. Also have some tactics and ball control. Leave the rest empty.

Defence - Aerobic, strength and defending. Also have some on tactics, ball control, set pieces and attacking. I leave shooting and goalkeeping empty

Midfield - Lots of strength and aerobic, with a medium amount of shooting, passing and defending. Also, a small amount on tactics, set pieces and ball control with no goalkeeping

Striker - Lots of strength, aerobic, attackin and shooting, with some on tactics, ball control and set pieces.

That isn't a definitive guide, but it's how I do things

Also, there are different types of training schedule; full time, part time and youth. This affects how much training the players can actually do. For example, part time has less time for training than full time, so you obviously can't have as much training. You'll have to decide which attributes are still being trained and aren't. For each schedule, I always aim to have the workload bar 1 notch below "high"

Enjoy

[sposfan]

Thanks for the training tips, I will certainly take your advice and redo the training for all squads. Do you think I can still use my youth training for more of a proving ground to see how certain tweaks would work, or it that just a waste of time and make them all similar?

I know there are a bunch of tip in the tactics and training forum, but I'd like to give it a shot doing it myself and just getting basic ideas from there or I'll nver learn it properly.

Was just going through my squad, checking to see how my subs lined up in terms of positions and multiple positions and it looks like I'll be looking around for some back line subs ASAP, and trying to move some of my more offensive minded reserves, since I have a plethora of those and I don't think I need to waste too many roster spots or money for that matter on THAT much depth. Right now I have a total roster of 31 players(snr and res) and I think I won't go much past that number to keep everything managable.

So that's the short term plan, maybe get another game in or 2 tonight, but it will mainly be trying to improve my coaches and assman, finding the right subs I need to round out my senior roster and trying to figure out a training regimen!

Thanks again, and as always, any and all help is welcome!

[Chas (Psyatika)]

Originally posted by amack1n:

So, if 3 minutes are added, AT LEAST 3 minutes stoppage time will be played. The final whistle will sound when the time added on has finished, and neither team is on the attach. The extra 1 minute 20 secs would have came from a team keeping an attack going beyond the 3 minutes

Sorry to further confuse this matter, but this isn't technically true. Most referees will have the common sense to wait until an attack is over before ending the match, but it not a requirement in the laws of the game. The referee is free to stop the match at any time, even before the time he initially indicated he would be adding on.

A good example of this is the 1978 World Cup Finals, where the referee ended the match a fraction of a second before Brazil scored an goal that would have given them a 2-1 win over Sweden.

Brazil went on to finish second in their group on goals scored, which meant they had Argentina in their semifinal group. Argentina went on to have that controversial 6-0 win over Peru which put them in the final over Brazil on goal difference.

That ref, Clive Thomas, never officiated in another match for FIFA!

[sposfan]

Chas,

thanks for the clarification, it's tidbits like this help me get a better grasp of how and what I'm messing up!

[Chas (Psyatika)]

No problem mate.

I'm a state referee in the USSF, and it's one of the first things we're taught when we discuss "Law 18", Common Sense (there is no Law 18 in the actual rule book. We just call "Common Sense" Law 18 because it's the "unwritten rule" of football).

[Amaroq]

From what I read of your tactical situation - on a narrow pitch, against a team that's better attacking through the middle than through the wings, I'd have done it the other way around: clog the middle, and push them out to the wings *based on the opposition*. This would work best if I felt my fullbacks outclassed their wingers, and my central defenders had better Jumping/Heading/Positioning stats than their strikers.

On the other hand, what you were doing sounds like it worked - playing to your strengths and taking advantage of the fact that the narrow pitch naturally clogged things somewhat anyways. And it worked, period, which is better than anything I can tell you "in theory".

Regarding your substitutions, it sounds like by the end of the match you were in a 5-5-0 formation - sweeper plus four defenders, five midfielders including WBL, DMC, and WBR. That would be called a "Park The Bus" tactic. ("Park the team bus in front of the goal"). Its certainly effective for defending a late lead, but I wouldn't want to count on it for more than 5 minutes against a relatively even opponent, or more than 10-12 minutes against an opponent which outclasses me.

If you give anybody too much time, they will eventually find a way through - even if it stems from a corner kick, free kick, or throw-in.

I'd rather "Keep them honest" with a counter-attacking threat, maybe a 4-5-1 with a pacey striker and players using Direct passing to get it up into space for him to run onto. A lot of times you can catch people out overcommitting to the attack .. and I'd rather defend a 2-0 lead than a 1-0 lead any day.

Regarding tactics, I suggest you save tactics frequently - for example, if you felt your "Force them to the middle" 4-4-2 worked for that purpose, save it off so that you can use it again the next time you come upon a similar situation. Same with your "Park the Bus" 5-5-0; I've definitely got one of those saved myself.

At any point in the game - either the pre-match buildup or the 63rd minute, or whatever - you can then load the saved tactic.

There can be UI problems with that, for example if the "DR" slot on one formation maps to a "SC" slot on another formation and you fail to notice, leaving your fullback up front for a few minutes.. or if the "individual instructions" you give to players are different enough that you'd rather keep the individual instructions for everybody else and just deal with adjusting the one player you're moving... do whatever is comfortable for you.

On the "tactics" front, I don't think of "any time spent on the default sessions is time wasted" the way amack1n does.. that used to be the case with, for example, FM'05, but the FM'07 defaults were decent enough. You'll obviously get more out of training players to do exactly what you're asking them to do tactically, but the '07 defaults weren't an utter waste of time.

[sposfan]

Amaroq,

thanks for the critique, and you're right, I did do things bass-ackwards overall, but the way my reasoning went was that, my middle defenders were much stronger than my wings, and with the pitch clogged up, that would play into my strength. To put in in a baseball analogy, I was a fastball pitcher against a fastball hitter, and if he was going to beat me, it would be on my best pitch.

Thanks also for the advice about keeping them honest with a least one offensive player until much later in the match and especially about saving tactics, although for now I'm just using the different preset ones and not touching individual or team instructions yet. It'll take time before I get the total hang of it, but thanks to everyone's help, I'm muddling along!

I do have another question, but I'll post it in a new post so it won't get lost here!

[Amaroq]

Fair enough - and to your credit it worked, and well. Your reasoning is sound; that's why I put the caveats I did on my counter-argument: if I felt my outside play was strong, and my aerial play would dominate their crosses.

[sposfan]

and here's the QUESTIONS!

These will definitely reveal me as a total newbie to football, in case my previous posts left ANY doubt! <G>

I tried googling these, and while I now understand a pre-contract (can sign a player to this when they have 6 months or less left on their current contract and not have to worry about a transfer fee), there are still a few other terms that I can't find in the help or through google.

For contracts, I understand most of the bonuses, but want to make sure I understand the appearance bonus. I assume it simply means a bonus for every senior game the player appears in?

Now for the biggie. What is the timeline of a season? It's extremely different from any North american sport, which goes exhibition season (friendlies), regular season and then playoffs. In football, there are different tournaments and trophies during the regular season. I found tons of websites, but none that really answer my question, although it's probably just the way I phrased it.

For instance after my first regular season match, I have a match for the league cup and then further on a match for the Johnstone Paint Cup.

Now the johnstone cup is for league 1 and 2, but according to wikipedia is a secondary priority with rules having been passed recently obliging teams to play their regular players. Is there any specific reason why teams take this tourney lightly? Wikipedia isn't too clear on it.

So as I understand it, I have the League Trophy, the League Cup and the FA cup, all played in the midst of the regular season. I assume placement and ranking is based on the previous season's record?

Thanks yet again!

[amack1n]

For contracts, I understand most of the bonuses, but want to make sure I understand the appearance bonus. I assume it simply means a bonus for every senior game the player appears in? - In a word, yes

What is the timeline of a season? It varies from country to country. However, most European countries have something along the lines of:

July to Mid August - Pre-season

The pre-season involves playing firnedlies and training your players to be match fit for the coming season. It's also a time to strngtehn your squad, as the transfer window will be open until September the 1st, at which point you can only buy players on a free transfer. Also, the qualifying rouns of continental competitions take place here

Mid August to early May - The season itself

All the league and cup matches. Also, cup finals will usually be right at the end of the season. However, some can be earlier. Also, there is a 1 month transfer window which is open from January 1st to January 31st. This is your last chance to strengthen your squad for the remender of the season

Early May to July - Close season

Players will stop training and go on holiday.

The reason why you couldn't find an answer on the internet is because leagues all over the world start at different times. As I said though, the above is the general format of a European league. Thats not to say all European leagues are like that though.

Teams will usually compete in multiple cup tournaments. Some have more prize money, bring in more fans and can give you qualification to a European tournament. Some however, just give you silverware at the end of it.

The reason why some teams take certian competitions as a 2nd priority is there is another competition which is more important. For instance, a team struggling just outside the relegation zone in the league might play a weaker team in the cup to save their players for the league, which they would see as higher priority. Conversly, you get some teams resting thier first team players to save them for a big cup match, like Liverpool usually do when they've got a Champions League match coming up.

Not entirely sure what you mean by your last question. Within the league structure, the division you're in depends on what position you finished last season. If you won the league or were within the "promotion zone", you'll be promoted to the division above (there are some exceptions to this though in different countrys) whilst finishing bottom or in the "relegation zone" will get you relegated (again, some exceptions depends on the country you're in)

Qualifying for the cups depend on your current league status and last season progress in that cup. For the FA cup, if you're in the Premiership you'll come in at the 3rd round. League 2, League 1 and the Championship teams come in at round 1 (I think) whilst teams in the Conference National and below need to go through qualfying rounds.

Some competitions give you a bye if you're the defending champions. For example, if you won the Champions League, you'd automatically qualify for the group stages in next seasons Champions League

Let me know if you still don't understand

[CoachFlu]

Your assumption about the appearance bonus is correct.

Timeline of a season... Well, to keep it simple: a season runs from the first league match until the last league match. When that is depends on what part of the world you're in, but in most countries in Europe this is pretty much August to May.

And indeed, one or more Cup competitions run alongside this 'regular season'. Most nations just have one "national cup". England has several Cups, which makes it look complicated, but the principle is all the same: whereas in a league the teams all play every other team (usually twice) and earn points, a Cup competition is basically a knock-out competition.

A nation's "national cup" is not an unimportant competition, but not quite as important as the league. In England, the FA Cup is pretty much their "national cup", and hence the most important one of their cups. I'm not too informed on the reason for/importance of all the other English cups - but I'm sure someone else will be.

There's no real "ranking" in domestic cups, as such. In simple terms, how a "national cup" like the FA Cup works is: in the early rounds, teams from the lower league divisions play each other, knocking each other out, while the teams from the higher divisions don't come into play until later rounds.

Then there are also "continental cups," which do rate fairly high on the importance scale. In these cups, basically the best teams from the nation's highest league play the best teams from other highest leagues, in a knock-out format (though with a mini-league format in the middle, just to confuse you. )

[isuckatfm]

If you go to any competition screen click on schedule and it will give you the timeline.

There are no rules in any cup competions in the English system with regards to the drawing of teams and any team can play any team entered in a specific draw. In football an easy draw versus a hard draw can often be the difference in a good or bad season both in playing terms and financial terms. If I'm honest at times in the game I have often felt that the AI was screwing me on a regular basis but that's just my se;lective memory and paranoia

In the English system different teams from different leagues are introduced into the various cup competitions at different stages starting from the bottom up. Below are the rounds that teams are introduced in FM and I assume in the real world but I can't be arsed trying to find the rules

League Cup

1st Round: League 2 to Championship

2nd Round: Premiership teams not in Europe

3rd Round: Premiership teams in Europe

FA Cup

1st Qualifying Round: Amateur Teams (not in FM)

2nd Qualifying Round: Blue Square North and South Teams

3rd Qualifying Round: None

4th Qualifying Round: Blue Square Premiership Teams

1st Round: League 2, League 1

2nd Round: None

3rd Round: Premiership, Championship

FA Trophy

3rd Qualifying Round: Blue Square North, Blue Square South

1st Round: Blue Square Premier

Johnstone's Paint Trophy (Split into North and South based on geography/number of teams. Sometimes in FM a team can move from one to the other due to being on the borderline. The same applies to Blue Square North/South)

1st Round: League 1 and 2

The reason this is secondary is simply money, both prize money and attendance money. It is a new competition in comparison to the League Cup and FA Cup and holds little prestige in the eyes of the fans, hence lower attendances and lower gate receipts.

[isuckatfm]

My slow typing gets me again!! Apologies to amack1n and CoachFlu if I look like I'm being a know it all dickhead.

[sposfan]

amack1n,

Thank you, that's exactly what I was looking for. I'm primarily concerned with the English leagues, since I'm playing Hartlepool and did a search under those parameters, but still found nothing concrete.

As for my last question what I meant was, well let me explain it in North American terms, that might clarify it. In the NHL for instance, teams play an 82 game schedule, followed by a playoffs made of several best of 7 rounds, comprised of 16 teams with the team with the best record playing the team with the worst record that qualified for the playoffs. In football, with the cups going on during the regular season, are there any rankings taken into consideration when your opponent is drawn?

Let's see if I have this correct so far! it's almost like there are 3 different and unique seasons going on during the regular season, with each completely independant of each other. I have my regular league games, with the season ending in promotion, relegation or neither depending on my standings (now THAT I actually knew beforehand!). I also have a few competitions that take place DURING the regular season, but have no bearing on the actual league standings, with the outcomes possibly bringing in more cash, more prestige and possible entry into another competition.

Is that pretty much it in a nutshell?

[amack1n]

Lol, no worries isuckatfm. You cleared up my answer about when teams come into the FA cup anyway

On another note, some teams higher in the league system won't be allowed to enter some competitions as they are specifically for lower teams, like the FA Trophy and Johnstone Paint Trophy. Also, some teams are too low in the league system to enter tournaments, like conference teams not being able to enter the League Cup.

For the record, there are hundreds of cup competitions in England, from the nationwide League cup to the Nursing Cup, a competition for semi pro teams in the Midlands (which I happen to have played in ). The only cup competition availible to every English team is the FA cup.

I know no-one asked about all that, but I felt like giving you some trivia

[Chasing Lamely]

Originally posted by sposfan:

amack1n,

Thank you, that's exactly what I was looking for. I'm primarily concerned with the English leagues, since I'm playing Hartlepool and did a search under those parameters, but still found nothing concrete.

As for my last question what I meant was, well let me explain it in North American terms, that might clarify it. In the NHL for instance, teams play an 82 game schedule, followed by a playoffs made of several best of 7 rounds, comprised of 16 teams with the team with the best record playing the team with the worst record that qualified for the playoffs. In football, with the cups going on during the regular season, are there any rankings taken into consideration when your opponent is drawn?

Let's see if I have this correct so far! it's almost like there are 3 different and unique seasons going on during the regular season, with each completely independant of each other. I have my regular league games, with the season ending in promotion, relegation or neither depending on my standings (now THAT I actually knew beforehand!). I also have a few competitions that take place DURING the regular season, but have no bearing on the actual league standings, with the outcomes possibly bringing in more cash, more prestige and possible entry into another competition.

Is that pretty much it in a nutshell?

Pretty much. To use your NHL analogy, it's a lot like having the regular league season and the Stanley Cup run alongside each other. IIRC, the Stanley Cup has no bearing on where you chart in the league standings, and is essentially a seperate compettition for which you qualify based on your final position in the standings after 82 games, yes?

[sposfan]

coachflu and isuckatfm (I smile everytime I type that name!),

Thanks to both of you as well, between all 3 replies I have an extremely clear picture of what a year consists of. In no way are any apologies neccessary, there is no such thing as TOO much knowledge, and ALL of your help is appreciated!

[isuckatfm]

In football, with the cups going on during the regular season, are there any rankings taken into consideration when your opponent is drawn?

It is just the luck of the draw (a phrase actually used in everyday terms much like the American 'that's how the cookie crumbles')

Is that pretty much it in a nutshell?

Yes but on this version I would be very warae of Board expectations in the different competitions as alot of people have had issues with how these are weighted when considering how well the board feel you are doing and whether or not your job is on the line.

On previous versions it wasn't uncommon for a good cup run to keep you in your job despite a poor league campaign (haven't encountered this scenario on the new version yet so not sure if it will be the same).

[isuckatfm]

warae should read aware

[sposfan]

Chasing Lamely,

Thank you, and you are correct in your recollections as well. The Stanley Cup had no bearing on the following season, except for determining who gets the last 2 draft picks in the amateur draft.

Thanks for confirming that I'm actually understanding and retaining something!! <G>

[amack1n]

Originally posted by sposfan:

As for my last question what I meant was, well let me explain it in North American terms, that might clarify it. In the NHL for instance, teams play an 82 game schedule, followed by a playoffs made of several best of 7 rounds, comprised of 16 teams with the team with the best record playing the team with the worst record that qualified for the playoffs. In football, with the cups going on during the regular season, are there any rankings taken into consideration when your opponent is drawn?

Nope, that doesn't happen in the cups here. The teams are drawn completely at random and nothing like league position is taken into consideration

The only time this happens in English football is the league playoffs (which will be completely different to their North American conterpart)

In each division (except the Premiership) you can aim to finish high enough to gain promotion. Usually, 1st and 2nd will both be promoted to the next division, whilst 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th enter the playoffs. 3rd plays against 6th in a two leg knockout match, whilst 4th plays 5th, with the winners playign against each other for the final promotion spot.

Thats the only occasion where league position determines who plays who.

Originally posted by sposfan:

Let's see if I have this correct so far! Smile it's almost like there are 3 different and unique seasons going on during the regular season, with each completely independant of each other. I have my regular league games, with the season ending in promotion, relegation or neither depending on my standings (now THAT I actually knew beforehand!). I also have a few competitions that take place DURING the regular season, but have no bearing on the actual league standings, with the outcomes possibly bringing in more cash, more prestige and possible entry into another competition.

Is that pretty much it in a nutshell?

Spot on!

As I've said about a dozen times already, it does depend on the country you're in, but that's right for England and most of Europe

[CoachFlu]

Originally posted by sposfan:

As for my last question what I meant was, well let me explain it in North American terms, that might clarify it. In the NHL for instance, teams play an 82 game schedule, followed by a playoffs made of several best of 7 rounds, comprised of 16 teams with the team with the best record playing the team with the worst record that qualified for the playoffs. In football, with the cups going on during the regular season, are there any rankings taken into consideration when your opponent is drawn?

In national cups, this is generally not the case. Luck of the draw, basically.

In continental cups, (like the Champions Cup and Euro Cup in Europe) there is a sort-of ranking system that plays a part. (Seeding is the term.)

I'm a bit too fuzzy on the exact details, but teams are given a ranking coefficient (a number, basically) based on the nation they play in and on their results from the previous five (I think) seasons. This coefficient then comes into play both to decide in which round in the competition the team has to start (big teams go straight to later rounds, low-profile teams have to battle through some earlier rounds first), and also to decide who the opponent will be (though not as strict as your NHL best record plays worst record example - basically it puts your team in one jar or the other to draw from.)

If that makes sense.

But playing as Hartlepool, continental cups are not an immediate concern.

[sposfan]

Thank you as always! My wife will be so prooud I learned something new today!

Oh, and in the background right now is Liverpool vs Arsenal just finishing up as 1-1 draw and then sky sports!

[Amaroq]

Wow, after those three beautifully detailed answers I can't believe that there actually is data which still needs to be said.

From an American perspective, the key thing is - they ain't no playoffs*.

At least not in the top divisions; league champion is determined purely on "regular season" results. You've already learned about Cup competitions, which run concurrently - though the F.A. Cup Final and European cup finals are after the close of the regular season. Winning both your League and a Cup is typically called "Winning a Double", and three would be a "Treble", and is exceptional.

In the lower divisions, however, there often *are* "promotion playoffs". For example, from League Two to League One, the first and second place teams promote automatically, while there is a small playoff competition between the third through sixth placed teams for the (one) last playoff spot.

To the "Cup competition draw", some do do some form of "seeding" and some do not.

The F.A. Cup, for example, gives different teams "byes" as far as the Third Round depending on where they finished in the previous season's league heirarchy; this year's positions have nothing to do with it.

However, the major European tournaments (and the World Cup itself) tend to do a seeded draw, with teams ranked on past performance both of their own team and other teams from their league, with the basic aim being to get the maximum number of "big teams" through into the elimination rounds.

[Chasing Lamely]

Originally posted by Amaroq:

Wow, after those three beautifully detailed answers I can't believe that there actually is data which still needs to be said.

From an American perspective, the key thing is - they ain't no playoffs*.

At least not in the top divisions; league champion is determined purely on "regular season" results. You've already learned about Cup competitions, which run concurrently - though the F.A. Cup Final and European cup finals are after the close of the regular season. Winning both your League and a Cup is typically called "Winning a Double", and three would be a "Treble", and is exceptional.

In the lower divisions, however, there often *are* "promotion playoffs". For example, from League Two to League One, the first and second place teams promote automatically, while there is a small playoff competition between the third through sixth placed teams for the (one) last playoff spot.

To the "Cup competition draw", some do do some form of "seeding" and some do not.

The F.A. Cup, for example, gives different teams "byes" as far as the Third Round depending on where they finished in the previous season's league heirarchy; this year's positions have nothing to do with it.

However, the major European tournaments (and the World Cup itself) tend to do a seeded draw, with teams ranked on past performance both of their own team and other teams from their league, with the basic aim being to get the maximum number of "big teams" through into the elimination rounds.

Just to exapand a little (And hopefully not confuse) American-style playoffs do exist in football, and are used to decide the MLS (obviously) and the Australian A-League. I think one more league on the game uses them, but I'm not sure.

[sposfan]

Thanks again Amaroq! now time to boot up that darn game again, will be playing whilst (aHA! finally managed to get that word in, am I now an official FM'er? <G&gt watching the Canadiens win another hockey game!

[Amaroq]

That actually brings up one last point: "How do teams qualify for Europe?"

For England, it works as follows:

1st in Premier League - qualifies for next year's Champions League group stage.

2nd in Premier League - qualifies for next year's Champions League group stage.

3rd, 4th in Premier League - qualify for next year's Champions League 3rd qualifying round.

5th in Premier League - qualifies for UEFA Cup.

F.A. Cup Winner - qualifies for UEFA Cup.

League Cup (aka Carling Cup) Winner - qualifies for UEFA Cup.

. .

Now, obviously, it isn't uncommon for a team to qualify multiple ways.

In the case that the F.A. Cup Winner qualifies for a Champions League spot, the F.A. Cup runner-up is given the "F.A. Cup's" UEFA Cup spot. If the F.A. Cup Winner qualified for the UEFA Cup, or if the F.A. Cup runner-up also qualified for Europe in some way, the "F.A. Cup's" UEFA Cup spot is given to the next Premier League finisher (6th).

In the case that the League Cup Winner qualifies for any European spot, the "League Cup's" UEFA Cup spot is given to the next Premier League finisher (6th or 7th).

The next two Premier League Finishers (6th, 7th, 8th, or 9th, depending) who have not qualified for Europe in any other way, qualify for the Inter-Toto Cup.

. . .

Now, the Inter-Toto Cup winners qualify for the UEFA Cup.

And the third-place finishers in the Champions League group stages join the UEFA Cup pretty deep along it.

So its a bit of a confusing map.

[Chasing Lamely]

Originally posted by sposfan:

Thanks again Amaroq! now time to boot up that darn game again, will be playing whilst (aHA! finally managed to get that word in, am I now an official FM'er? <G&gt watching the Canadiens win another hockey game!

Off Topic, but it's just the once...

What network is showing the Canadiens? You've got me in the mood to watch Hockey now. (Damn you)

[Amaroq]

Oh, and subject to change, as countries are given more or fewer places depending on how teams from that nation did over the past five seasons.

And the defending Champions League winner qualifies for the Champions League. Which could throw a spanner in the whole works, and I honestly don't know who qualifies where, then.

[Dappen]

I also have a few competitions that take place DURING the regular season, but have no bearing on the actual league standings, with the outcomes possibly bringing in more cash, more prestige and possible entry into another competition.

This should outline who qualifers for what after success in a competition

In answer to you other question, teams in England aren't 'seeded' for cup draws. That is to say the top teams won't be prevented from playing each other in the draw. This differs in other countries. Not sure if that answers the question or not?

[sposfan]

I have directv, so I get pretty much ALL the NHL games (don't hate me! <G&gt, but if you can make do with just listening www.nhl.com has all the games' audio streamed for free.

So far the only big problem I have with FM ( well besides understanding everything, and messing up what little I DO understand <G&gt is pulling myself away from this thread long enough to get a game in!!!

[sposfan]

Dappen,

it most certainly does answer the question! Thanks to all of you and even Amaroq too!

[Dappen]

Sorry it took me about 30 minutes to post that reply as the phone rang, i'm not bringing up an old question on purpose just to look smart!!!

[isuckatfm]

Just thought I should clarify something else in case you weren't aware. SI don't have the license for the European Competitions so use fake names in the game as follows:-

Real Name = Game Name

Champions League = Champions Cup

UEFA Cup = EURO Cup

Inter Toto Cup = EURO Vase

[sposfan]

Dappen, and this goes for everyone else!

please don't apologize for taking the time to try to help me with this crash course! I really do appreciate the amount of patience you have all shown me!

[Chasing Lamely]

Originally posted by sposfan:

I have directv, so I get pretty much ALL the NHL games (don't hate me! <G&gt, but if you can make do with just listening www.nhl.com has all the games' audio streamed for free.

Guess I'll make do. I have a Net TV Tuner, which is essentially like having DirecTV, DISH, BelleVue, Sky, etc, all rolled into one. lol.

If someone is showing the olympic sausage making trials in Outer Mongolia, I can probably get it

[sposfan]

isuckatfm,

Thanks for the info, that's something else I didn't know, but Amaroq will probably be upset you stole a post from him!

[Dappen]

Originally posted by sposfan:

Dappen, and this goes for everyone else!

please don't apologize for taking the time to try to help me with this crash course! I really do appreciate the amount of patience you have all shown me!

We're English, we apologise for anything

[sposfan]

lol, I'm Canadian, we're apathetic, but mehhh, whatcha gonna do?

[isuckatfm]

Also with reference to your question about how teams are drawn in European competitions there is a seeding system in place which determines which teams cannot be drawn together based on performance in previous competitions.

If you go to the relevant competition page there is a list you can click on.

Also the number of teams that qualify for European competition based on their standing in their respective national league is not fixed for eternity and is based on the overall performance of their teams in previous seasons. You can see these by doing the following

World>Europe>Champions Cup in the toolbar at the top.

Then click Coefficients>Nation in the left side menu.

You can also see club coefficients aswell which determines their seeding for the draw in the Champions League.

Also as far as I know there is a rule in the Champions League that two teams from one nation cannot be drawn in the same group. I think tha same applies in the UEFA Cup group stages.

[isuckatfm]

Thanks for the info, that's something else I didn't know, but Amaroq will probably be upset you stole a post from him!

Apologies to Amaroq if I did but didn't see it mentioned previously. But hey if you are going to cheat off someone always sit near the smartest kid in class

[sposfan]

ChasingLamely, if you can find it, it's on the system somewhere, probably the local FSN station for Atlanta, unless you get the canadian sports channels.

isuckatfm, thanks for the tip there as well! for club coefficients, it's basically a way to rank clubs on a level field, taking everything into account (ie. quality of opponents), correct?

[sposfan]

Originally posted by isuckatfm:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Thanks for the info, that's something else I didn't know, but Amaroq will probably be upset you stole a post from him!

Apologies to Amaroq if I did but didn't see it mentioned previously. But hey if you are going to cheat off someone always sit near the smartest kid in class </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually I meant that he was going to use another post to write that!

[Dappen]

Incidently, welcome to the world of soccer( i just sounds wrong). It's a terrible, exciting, masochistic, beautiful love affair. That, if you become too passionate about, can bring you to the brink of despair and to perfect joy!

In fact run now!

I still have nightmares about my team losing in the most exciting FA cup final for years to Liverpool, with Steven Gerrard playing abnormally well. Actually avoid West Ham at all costs, its just not worth it

[Amaroq]

Originally posted by sposfan:

Actually I meant that he was going to use another post to write that!

Yeah, do you have any idea how hard it is to get to "Third Team" by only posting constructive posts?

[isuckatfm]

isuckatfm, thanks for the tip there as well! for club coefficients, it's basically a way to rank clubs on a level field, taking everything into account (ie. quality of opponents), correct?

Here's the official UEFA rules on the champions league if you are interested (though you might see this and think "Is this guy for real )

Article 8

Seeding of clubs

8.01 The UEFA administration seeds clubs for the qualifying rounds and the group

stage in the UEFA Champions League, in accordance with the club

coefficient rankings established at the beginning of the season.

8.02 These rankings are drawn up on the basis of a combination of 33 % of the

value of the respective national association’s coefficient for the period from

2002/03 to 2006/07 inclusive (see Annex II, points 1 to 6) and the clubs’

individual performances in the UEFA club competitions during the same

period. Each club retains the cumulative number of points obtained during

this period. Qualifying-round matches will not be taken into account as far as

individual club performances are concerned (see Annex II, points 2 and 6).

8.03 For the qualifying rounds, a draw between the same number of seeded and

unseeded clubs determines the pairings, in accordance with the club

coefficient ranking established at the beginning of the season (see 8.02).

8.04 For the third qualifying round, the UEFA administration may form groups, in

accordance with the principles set by the Club Competitions Committee.

8.05 For the purpose of the draw, the 32 clubs involved in the group stage are

seeded into four groups of eight, in accordance with the club coefficient

ranking established at the beginning of the season (see 8.02). The titleholder

is always the top seed.

8.06 For the first knockout round, the group-winners are seeded above the

runners-up.

8.07 The UEFA administration shall seed clubs for the quarter-final and semi-final

draws on the basis of the clubs’ sporting results in the group and first

knockout stage (eight matches). The performance table is compiled in

accordance with the points calculation system used for the club coefficients

(i.e. two points for a win, one point for a draw, no points for a defeat).

If two or more clubs are equal on points, the accumulated coefficients of

each club in question and its respective association over the previous five

seasons will be used to determine the rankings (see 8.02).

The four highest ranked clubs will be seeded and will be assigned a fixed

position from 1 to 4 according to their ranking. These four clubs will be drawn

against the unseeded quarter-finalists in accordance with the principles set

by the Club Competitions Committee.

[sposfan]

Here's the official UEFA rules on the champions league if you are interested (though you might see this and think "Is this guy for real )

My head's spinning! And not just because it's Halloween!

[isuckatfm]

My head's spinning! And not just because it's Halloween!

lol! It's probably bad enough trying to figure out how to play a new game nevermind all of the rules and regulations behind it so I'm not surprised.

The only comparable experience I had was managing in the lower leagues in Brazil where I spent longer trying to find out and understand the rules than I did in the job