32MJ32
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Posts posted by 32MJ32
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@kandersson FWIW I'm 5 seasons in with Inter. I play Lukaku as a DLF(S) on the right side of a partnership with an AF(A) in the left slot. The idea is to get him to pick the ball up on the right side of the pitch and cut in on his left foot, per his goal at Genoa (I assume that's the video - I can't see it but I watched the game)
I've set him to Roam From Position & Dribble More. I've also trained him with Plays With Back to Goal and Dribbles Down The Right Flank to go along with Knocks Ball Past Opponent. With all those traits active, you get a nice mixture of him holding the ball up and laying it off and taking off and running at guys. He's also been lethal with over 30 goals each year (a ton are headers from deadballs, to be fair, but still!)
My 2 cents is that PPM's play an enormous role in players behavior in this year's game. I don't think you can "make a Lukaku" without getting his PPM's right.
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11 hours ago, romayrag said:
Yeah Bowen Right side, just a typo!
Agree with you on Rice but I think we will see him becoming more of the DLP in the DMC role.Creswell is my big issue with how to play him and what role. No role I put him in seems to quite work for the way we play with him IRL I think I am going to stick with him at LB as a WB su but with a sit narrower instruction.
Ogbonna tends to sit as the central DC but I just dont think it will work unless i move him to the DCl postion.
What I have so Far is this
Good stuff! Please keep this thread updated as you go. It's not an easy one to draw up.
I'm a Hammer as well and actually an Inter fan. My 2 cents is that the system borrows heavily from Conte's 3-5-2/3-4-1-2 but more the version he used at Chelsea.
If you remember, Azpilicueta was absolutely brilliant in the role Cresswell has now - the left of the 3 CB's. He would trot forward and play balls over the top to Morata/Diego Costa in the exact same manner Cress picked out Antonio on the weekend. Azpi had 10 or so assists during Conte's time there, which is obviously bonkers for a central defender.
Now I have good and bad news, FM wise:
Good: I play with 3 at the back and have seen that sort of behavior - dribbling beyond halfway - from the CB's on either side
Bad: I've only seen it from CB's with Stopper duties and the Brings Ball Out Of Defence PPM - and I've yet to see any of them play the sort of back post long diagonal you'd want
That's not to say it isn't possible to train Cress with that PPM or have him execute those passes with the proper player or team instructions.
Here's my quick shout on the player roles, which I'd summarise as "trying to create West Ham's tactic while also trying not to get completely crushed in FM20." If I were to start a West Ham save, here's what I'd go with and why:
3-3-2-1-1
Antonio
CF(S)
Tackle Harder
Asked to a bit of everything as a one man band up front and get stuck in defensively. I'd go with a Support duty as, IMO, he regularly drops below halfway to help out and the CF(A) in FM20 does not
Bowen
AM(A) - Central
Moves Into Channels
Roam From Position
Bursting off into space without the ball or dribbling at players with it
Masuaku
WB(A) - Left
Surrogate winger
Rice
DM BWM(D)
I like Declan a lot but I don't think he's a playmaker in the FM sense. He's the ball winner and engine of the side. Stuck with a D duty here for tactical balance. And FWIW, players with a D duty will still get forward regularly enough against a packed defense
Coufal (or equivalent)
WB (S)
Does a job defending and supporting attacks
Cresswell - Left sided
BPD(S)
As you said, hard one to define. However, I think this could work if the TI's are right (More Direct Passing, Pass Into Space etc.)
Oggy - Central
CD(CO)
You need one CD on CO with 2 S's, IMO
Balbuena - CD(S)
The stopper on the other side. This could be Diop as well. I actually don't know the Hammers attributes or PPM's well at all...
The way I see this looking is you have Rice playing safe passes to Soucek, Fornals, Masuaku and Bowen for them to build attacks with. And Cresswell to trot forward to help and look for the long killer ball over the the top. If you can get the tempo right, there's a chance Soucek and Bowen will be far enough advanced for Cress to pick out when he gets the ball from Rice
Happy Hammering. I'd love to hear how it goes
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On 22/09/2020 at 16:22, Keyzer Soze said:
And what about the forward role?
Should it be a attacking duty, like a DLF(a) or even a PF(a) or a AF(a), or someone with a support duty?
What worked best for me - and please keep in mind I played 3 strikers rather than IF - ST - TQ - was to have them like this:
AF(A) DLF (S) TQ(A)
The AF ran the channel between the DL/WBL and DC which a) created headaches for any team who had their FB pushing forward and b) meant he often found himself in a mismatch at the back post when jumping/competing for a cross. I had Esposito, Lukaku or Dusan Vlahovic play there - and all 3 are basically Target Men in terms of physical profile (it's 2023 in my save) - so that worked for me. Like putting Shaq in the post versus a small forward
If you were going to play a Sterling type out on the left in the IF role, I am not sure if my setup would still be the best fit.
I'd also like to note, which I covered in my longer post, that I couldn't get the central striker of the 3 to do much of anything - despite trying almost every ST Support role in the game. I've binned this formation as a result. Not keen to have a €90m passenger!
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10 hours ago, Keyzer Soze said:
Anyone try playing with a wide TQ and with a MEZ(s) on the same side?
Something like this:
DLF(a)
IF(s) TQ(a)
DLP(s) MEZ(s)
DM(s)
WB(a) CD(d) CD(d) WB(s)
Would they conflict with each other?
Any in relation with the forward role, DLF(a), can the TQ(a) link well with a forward with attacking duty, or should he have a support duty?
I tried this as well. They work well together, I didn't see much conflict. The TQ has such free movement that he rarely sits on top of the MEZ
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I think this was just addressed by the most recent update. I lost the league by a point and failed the goal... then I download the update literally just now.. and it's showing as passed.
Try that?
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On 10/09/2020 at 19:29, Flußkrebs said:
This is super useful as I have anecdotally noticed a massive increase in squareing of the ball to the TQ. Why? I'm assuming because of this ball magnet playmaker status that he is, the rightwinger and CF will be much more likely to look for the pass to him rather than shoot themselves. And because he's playing as a striker rather than a 10 or a winger, this really results in many more squared balls and goals than the usual blasting into the side netting which I know a lot of players find annoying.
So I played around 15 fixtures from Jan til season end with a 4-3-3 Narrow and the TQ in the slot on the far right (Martinez). I understand there's some skepticism around 4-3-3 Narrow and "breaking" the ME but I have neither the smarts, time nor inclination to try that. I just wanted to get 3 of the best players in the league on the field at once (Lukaku, Esposito, Martinez).
(I'd also argue there's nothing wildly different about an IF - ST- IF to a STCL - STC - STCR setup, especially if the wide two STC's were asked to Stay Wider and man mark the opposing DL/DR which mine were. Semantics, really. )
The other point of interest worth sharing is that although a 4-3-3 Narrow may look like suicide against top opposition, we put 3 past Man City at the Etihad with this and then beat Juve 5-1 and 4-0. The press you can achieve with 3 attackers in the highest positional strata is - quite obviously - outstanding. As long as you have wheels, intent and tackling in midfield and defense - and a non-ridiculous assignment of duties - you're quite hard to break down.
Back to the topic, your testimony is correct (per my own anecdotal review) : The supply to the TQ far outpoints the usual supply to any other F role. This is great if you want to feature one of your STC's, but less great if you want to be more democratic
Your note about the TQ drifting wide was also spot on
For anyone still reading and considering implementing, I actually took @Experienced Defender ideas from another thread about a 4-3-3 narrow and had the F's like this:
AF(A) - DLF(S) - TQ
The TQ and the AF flourished - TQ far post crosses to the AF were abundant - but the DLF was basically a decoy. After cycling through a ton of roles in that central spot, I gave up. I didn't use a TI to Focus Play Through The Middle which may have helped but... why do that when you have a Treq on the flank?
In short, I don't think the TQ is pointless, at all. It does what it says on the tin, which is become the designated playmaker for your side in the attacking third. My 2 cents is that you want to give this guy space. I played a CAR in the CM slot behind him and basically gave him the the whole right flank to drift around in before the WB got there to help out.
Another way to achieve this may be to play the TQ in the centre, put a CM(D) behind, and then have your two wide players stay wide.
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@Analog - thanks for sharing, mate. Great write up.
I have had my hand "forced"* into playing a 4-3-3 Narrow as I'm in my 3rd season with Inter and now have 3 of the best strikers in the game in Lukaku, Lautaro and Esposito. I'm having some good success but now I am going to experiment playing Lautaro as a Treq. Appreciate the inspiration.
* just don't want to sell any of them/enjoying messing around in my 9,000th hour of gametime in this year's version
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Hi @keeper tom - some good suggestions above
For mine, there's no easy answers in this year's Match Engine, and the #10 "creative genius" I have sought hasn't been achieved in any of the roughly 900,000 tactics I've tested. However, here are some things I've found useful in getting more from the AMC:
- Space. Make your wide players wide. AML/AMR's as W's. DL/DR'ss as FB's or WB's (no IWB's). Although it seems logical that an AMC could play in IF's and IWB's, it is snuffed out by the AI defense with almost 100% success. I also have moved my wide guys down a strata to ML and MR. Again, more space
- Get your ST's on the move. I play 2 upfront and although it would seem logical to have great goal scorers like Martinez and Lukaku centrally, I actually set them to roam. This gives the AMC more passing angles and options when trying to play them in. I've seen some really nice STL-->AMC-->STR combos which have presented CC's
My AMC Sensi is not dominating, but with the above setup, he's been the best #10 I've had so far
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21 hours ago, SixPointer said:
I have seen glimpses off it as well. I intend to do a update purely on them wider CBS. My RCB Torren is the ideal player for it. As he is well suited to being a libero. But I wouldn’t say it happens as perfectly like GPG. As it’s near impossible to get the rotations that happen. We’re de Roon drops in to The DL and the RCB pushes up really High and the RWB comes inside. It cause me much agony
On 16/08/2020 at 19:30, Louisking1992 said:I have to disagree on this, simply because on my FM20 save with Brentford Ive managed to get my Outers CBs to push wide and forward on multiple occasions.
Its very player dependant and you need goo ball players with the correct traits - Brings ball out of defence, then ive played them as a BPD and asked them to stay wider and dribble more.. Honestly when it happens its amazing to watch, they actually overlap the WBs!
Bastoni as the left sided CB in the 3, with @SixPointer's instructions - BPD S Stay Wider Dribble More - and the Brings Ball Out of Defence PPM (which he has out of the box) - bombs forward a lot. He's almost too reckless, to be honest - given he can't do much once he's high up the pitch
Per some recommendations above, I moved from WB's to DW's (not to get a better Atalanta recreation, just in hope to kick some more goals in), and I find the extra space it provides for the CB's to move into encourages them forward even more. I threw a CM on D to cover. Creates some fun attacks and isn't a total defensive farce
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15 hours ago, SixPointer said:
Your welcome man 👍🏻 Took a fair bit of experiment to get it working right for me in the first season. Hopefully I can get some more insightful stuff posted soon to further help
As well as being an amazing read about a club and system I am fond of (who isn't?), this has been a real FM lesson for me on what it actually means to create space in a dangerous way.
I am an Inter fan and I've had several goes at trying to get the Lukaku-Martinez partnership firing - but I've struggled to do so. They both have great physical and mental profiles, so getting them to fly around the pitch while still threatening on goal has been the aim. What I've found is I end up pulling one too deep or having both sit on top of each other (and hoping that the intricate movement around the box will free one up, which I don't believe this year's ME wants a lot to do with).
Your setup has shown how to space two well-rounded F's and have them take up menacing positions, pulling defenders with them, and allowing whichever one picks up the ball to do something with it. Unreal.
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Incredible read. Thank you
Just re-started a save with Inter to give this a try after pulling my hair out trying to get the same shape to work the way I hoped. Already enjoying watching the games 2 friendlies in. Legendary
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Great thread, thoroughly enjoyed. Maybe I'm the only weirdo who watches Full Matches and has noticed this...
Very good keepers kick the ball out of bounds *a lot*. Name your favourite world class guy, I don't care who it is - if he gets it passed to him 3 times in a row, you best believe he's kicking it at angles into Row Z (even if there's 8 teammates easily available). Just boot it up the field....?
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Appreciate the above replies - does anyone have intimate knowledge of my exact question?
Anyone using Newcastle - are you getting kids from Scotland, for example?
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Friends,
I am managing Triestina who are located in Trieste, Italy - which is about 15 minutes in the car from Slovenia and an hour or so from Croatia.
Will my Youth Intake, should I improve my Recuritment to the necessary level (Extensive or what not), will our "zone" also include Slovenia and Croatia? Or just our region of Italy?
Grazi
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Ta, thanks. I don't need to post the screenie if the answer is essentially "The players will choose the cross they deem to be appropriate."
Congratulations on your many years of experience as a defender and all of the very best
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1. "TI are tendencies" - as in.. I am suggesting what the players should do, rather than instructing them? I don't agree. Plenty of the other instructions are rigid in their application i.e. width, use offside trap etc.
2. I have watched several full matches, thanks. There are low crosses. There are also a lot of crosses which are not low.
Do you have any ideas on how to make more of them low?
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Fellow gamers,
Is it just me or does selecting Low Crosses as a Team Instruction fall on deaf ears?
In my head I have Man City putting 98 out of 100 to feet. In (Match Engine) reality I have most of my highlights resulting in one of my forwards trying to head in something aimed at... their head.
I don't have Be More Expressive selected. I don't have Hit Early Crosses selected either. Does anyone have any ideas?
Thanks
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Hello smart folk,
Does anyone know how the default promotion and relegation between Serie D and Serie C works? Is there a chance that some of the currently unselectable clubs enter Serie C without needing to make changes to the database?
The two I am particularly interested in are Palermo and Foggia.
Thanks
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On 23/02/2020 at 09:21, Quadrophenia88 said:
https://gyazo.com/ab6b876f0cde629475c63afcb5f2930a
The above sums FM20's match engine up this year in a nutshell. That game finished 2-1 in my favor, both my goals coming from set plays, despite missing three 1v1s (all CCC) and dominating the game possession wise and in terms of chances. The AI on the other hand are presented with one highlight. one clear cut chance and one goal. I'm not complaining, I'm used to it at this point but when I have my side playing hungry possession football and the short passing game, it's quite annoying that the majority of my goals come from set pieces and headers. This is across multiple saves, different formation and style set ups. In one game, I played a side over two legs and had 52 shots, 30 on target across both of them, scored 2 goals and both were headers. At the end of the day, I'm still winning games and having successful saves so it doesn't stop me having success but it does take away some enjoyment from the game itself, especially watching the matches.
Anyways, this is the last time I'll post feed back on this years edition as I feel like I'm repeating myself at this point and I would be incredibly surprised if there was any other patches (not like that guarantees anything anyway). It's a good game but in my opinion the worst ME for years, FM 18 & FM 19 are poorer games but have a better ME in my opinion.
This is an opinion based on months of game play since the game has came out and with multiple saves so I've gave the game enough time to change my mind. Due to this, I will certainly be holding off on the pre-ordering FM21 until we know the state of the ME.
(Again this is just my opinion based on my experience of the game since release)
P.S Thought I would provide another example - https://gyazo.com/f95cc0096b343dcd5424154614adc3f9
In the link above, this game finished 1-0 and the goal? You guessed it. Header from a corner.
Last example, I promise but this one was too good not to share.
https://gyazo.com/43dba2ec7aade8934e92ca1b5b3ef830
https://gyazo.com/38cd6b0295e7cf9b2d9f85c6e9faaf14
Backs up my points perfectly.
I am living the above. It's almost word perfect
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After hours and hours - I'd say ~ 50 now - of tactic testing and juggling, I am yet to come close to recreating anything as effective of this on 20.2.3
My hat is off to you
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Friends,
I haven't played since FM16. You used to be able to take over a club with a well established manager (i.e. Wenger) and the board would ask you if you wanted him retained as DoF. Can you still do this in FM20? If so, is there any way of knowing when it will be recommended?
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Thank you, compadres.
I am at about 55% now so I guess I can't complain too much. I would think the Barese would be packing out the house for a Champions League side given they have been in Serie C for most of the last decade but is what it is. I'll just have to sign Ronaldo or something
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Hello friends,
FM20 is my first since FM16. Due to being very handsome and excellent, I have taken Bari from Serie C to Champions League (2nd in Serie A) in 3 seasons. We won the Serie B on our way up, too, by like 20 points. As such, I am surprised to find:
- No big clubs want to hire me (Roma were like "Thanks for your applicaiton but nah")
- Bari are a still a 3-star rep club and we get about 25,000 to each game (please keep in mind when Bari - the real one - have played Serie B Playoff games in the past they have sold out. It's a city of 350,000)
- I can't attract any big name players, even from non-Champs League clubs
These may sound like complaints but they aren't, I am just wondering if this is the new normal in FM? How long do I have to be good for until I'm considered a top manager and top club?
Thanking you
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On 06/01/2020 at 14:37, 32MJ32 said:
Hi @Mr U Rosler
Posting for the first time in years (maybe ever? I don't know how many posts I have) to thank you for this Tactic. I was doing pretty well with Bari using a bog standard GengenPress template and some roles I thought would work from FM16* days... until 20.2 hit and then I fell in a hole - and frankly, I was too lazy to solve it myself
Plugged this in and roared through last half of Serie B for back to back promotions. And currently in 4th after 9 games in Serie A. My team is ~90% U19 and U21 Italian Internationals on loans. I haven't signed anyone of note and I have a wage budget of $8m
Great stuff, my man
NB Serie A Managers: I found the "Get Stuck In" instruction too physical for Serie A (I was getting 15-20 fouls per game and a ton of cards) so I've removed it. Still doing great winning the ball back
* I've sat a few years out
Hello again @Mr U Rosler and anyone reading,
I am in Game 35 of Year 1 of Serie A with Bari and have ridden this all the way to a Champions League spot. In 2nd now - we can't win but we can't finish worse than 4th. Once more, many thanks for solving this odd Match Engine.
The only adjustments I made were taking the CF(S) and changing him to a DF(S) as I didn't think any of my strikers had the quality to be a Complete Forward.... aside from Sebastiano Esposito*, who is playing the CF(A) role - he has 34 in 35 and will likely be Serie A Player of the Year. He's still 19. The other tweak I made was to take "Shoot Less Often" away from him as he's clearly my best player and I wanted him to shoot all the time.
* For those starting in the lower leagues of Italy (and maybe elsewhere), I was able to get Esposito on loan in Serie C as a 17 year old, where he's easily good enough to start. Then extended for another season into Serie B where, as an 18 year old, he was good enough to be one of the top forwards in the division. Then extended again for a 3rd year where he officially hit Wonderkid status and starts for Italy. Unfortunately, Inter want him back now, but fair to say he's a handy guy to jump on early
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What role does the attacking midfielder play for Inter Milan? (3-4-1-2; Sensi/Eriksen/Barella/Vidal)
in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
Posted
Inter fan here. Also managing them in FM20 and playing an AM behind 2 strikers
1. The only role I've seen drift as wide as the AM in Conte's system is the Treq, per @Domus Clamantium post. The AP(A) and AM(S/A) seem to be "hard coded" to stay in the central channel even with Roam From Position on. The Treq, on the hand, will cruise about the pitch
2. I'm not certain about the Stay Wider for the strikers - I've not tried it. If you do, please post results.
Bonus content:
After 5 seasons, I can safely say that the best mentality to get your AM involved in the 3-4-1-2, in the same way it looks in Conte's side, is Cautious. I know this may seem counter intuitive, but from Balanced and up, the deeper midfielders will bypass him to get the ball to the flanks, and the wide players will look to cross or dribble.
You can, of course, mess around with Team and Player instructions to change this behaviour - but my 2 cents is that just playing on Cautious will take care of it. I'm not sure exactly why, but it seems to encourage the CM's to play a short pass into the AM's feet
I like to juggle between Positive and Cautious to get a good mix of attacks - as the long switch from flank to flank and crossing is a obviously a feature of Inter's play as well