Ridiculous "after 1 international" transfers

[Jack Rudd]

I can imagine there being real-world managers who, if in charge of a club and a country at the same time, might well use the national team to bolster the value of a transfer. However, the managers with whom they were dealing would realize full well what they were up to, and thus see the "after n international caps" clause as one that would definitely be activated.

[kimjjj]

You asked me for my definition of cheating. You did not mention 'within the FM world' so don't give me that.

Heh, well what did you think I meant ? You thought I was asking you for the official definition of cheating outside FM ? I have access to the internet, you know. I could look that up myself even if I didn't know...

You say a difference of 39M is too much ? Interesting. That must mean you know where to draw the line. Enlighten me, please. Is 10M too much ? Is 1000 £ too much ?

Imagine a moderator came to you and asked you to put in FM 09 Wiki what cheating meant. What would you write ?

What about my example with 7 star coaching where I take advantage of the opposition being "stupid" ? Is that cheating ?

I think you're arguing with your gut and not your mind. Don't get me wrong, my gut tells me the international loophole is cheating too, but what if you actually had to think about it ? My point is that if we define the international loophole as cheating then there are dozens of other aspects of the game that could also be called cheating.

[Schwarzmanne]

I've been looking through some transfer clauses over the past few days and I'm pretty sure the AI doesn't do anything of the sort. It's an exploit that you're choosing to use and you're ruining your own game. I'm sure the loophole will get closed but we've got bigger fish to fry at the moment.

Since the early Champ mans this has allways been the case, doubt it will be changed now. I've made the odd 15 y/o amazing in my time but never felt the need to bring in Ronaldinho's for peanuts, takes the fun out of it, just like this.

Simply don't do it.

[bean824]

I'm going to play your game then. Name these other aspects of the game.

Any difference is too much, if you're selling the player in the way that you are. You're using a loophole, therefore taking advantage of the system.

I'm not answering any more of your questions, everyone can see that you are using them to glaze over your rush of blood in posting your opening post, and now you are trying to cover over the fact that you're wrong. It's not only me - other people have said as well.

I've not seen the 7 star coaching example 'in action' so I can't comment on it. And no, an explanation of it will not get me to comment on it, I'd have to see it with my own eyes, and I'm not prepared to start a game just to do that.

[kimjjj]

Since the early Champ mans this has allways been the case, doubt it will be changed now. I've made the odd 15 y/o amazing in my time but never felt the need to bring in Ronaldinho's for peanuts, takes the fun out of it, just like this.

Simply don't do it.

Hmm, I think you misunderstand what the thread is about.

[kimjjj]

I'm going to play your game then. Name these other aspects of the game.

Any difference is too much, if you're selling the player in the way that you are. You're using a loophole, therefore taking advantage of the system.

I'm not answering any more of your questions, everyone can see that you are using them to glaze over your rush of blood in posting your opening post, and now you are trying to cover over the fact that you're wrong. It's not only me - other people have said as well.

I've not seen the 7 star coaching example 'in action' so I can't comment on it. And no, an explanation of it will not get me to comment on it, I'd have to see it with my own eyes, and I'm not prepared to start a game just to do that.

You probably shouldn't try to hide your inability to debate by referring to the fact that other people say the same things you do. Being the majority doesn't make you right.

I'm not trying to glaze over anything, friend. I'm using your assertion that the international loophole is cheating as an argumentative device to get you to agree that there are other aspects of the game that could and should be called cheating as well.

Are you actually doubting me when I say that it's possible to get 7 star coaching in weak/poor clubs ? Are you not prepared to take my word for it ? If not, I'll be sure to drum up a screen shot as soon as possible.

Claim :

1) If taking advantage of poor AI (meaning poor programming) is cheating then the international loophole is cheating.

2) If taking advantage of poor AI (meaning poor programming) is cheating then getting 7 star coaching when your opponents can't is cheating.

3) If taking advantage of poor AI (meaning poor programming) is cheating then discovering wonderkids (or close to it) and buying them for your low level club when your opponents can't is cheating.

Example : Club A and B are low level rivals. You take over club A. You get 7 star coaching and buy 10 big young talents. Club A gets promoted and leaves Club B in the dust. Why ? Because you're smarter than the stupid AI.

Example : Club A and B are low level rivals. You take over club A. You sell a crap player for 40M using the international loophole, buy great players and get promoted leaving club B in the dust. Why ? Because you're smarter than the stupid AI.

Is it cheating to be smarter than the AI ?

My point is : You can't have it both ways. Either both examples are cheating or neither is.

You disagree ? I'm perfectly open to the possibility that I'm wrong. You just need to be able to argue why before you can convince me.

[uae4life]

eventually we can settle this by pointing out that this loophole is quite indeed a bug.

[Ryknow]

I've been looking through some transfer clauses over the past few days and I'm pretty sure the AI doesn't do anything of the sort. It's an exploit that you're choosing to use and you're ruining your own game. I'm sure the loophole will get closed but we've got bigger fish to fry at the moment.

Exactly, the AI sometimes offer this clause but in no way do they use large amounts. I think its fine as it is, if it gets changed it could upset something else in transfer offers. People can choose not to do it as basically everyone in this post has stated.

[ndebergerac]

I'm not trying to convince people I'm not cheating. How could I possibly do that when the meaning of "cheating" has yet to be defined ?

Define "normal".

I don't need to break out a dictionary to know what are normal parts of the game and what is taking advantage of loopholes such as the international management cheat you mentioned.

An even better situation arises if you are actually an international manager. Then you can sell crap players of your nation to ANY club using the loophole, give them one cap, and watch the money roll in.

Being able to get clubs willing to pay huge amounts after just a single international game is clearly a bug your choosing to take advantage of. That is fine, not cheating as such, if taking away from the game a little.

For the 3rd time, do what you like, just stop trying (and apparently failing) to defend it as something it isn't. The comparisons you are using are quite laughable. You're way over analyzing this.

[kimjjj]

I don't need to break out a dictionary to know what are normal parts of the game and what is taking advantage of loopholes such as the international management cheat you mentioned.

Being able to get clubs willing to pay huge amounts after just a single international game is clearly a bug your choosing to take advantage of. That is fine, not cheating as such, if taking away from the game a little.

For the 3rd time, do what you like, just stop trying (and apparently failing) to defend it as something it isn't. The comparisons you are using are quite laughable. You're way over analyzing this.

Nobody has been able to refute my assertions, so I'm quite clearly not failing to defend what I say and do. You are.

You claiming that my comparisons are laughable without actually being able to disprove my thesis probably says more about you than me. It's easy to scoff at something you don't understand, but it doesn't make you look good...

My claim is that you are not analyzing this ENOUGH.

[muncherdave]

You seem to have drifted off on a tangent. I'm sure nobody really cares that much whether or not you are a cheater, it just seems to be an excuse for an argument which has very little to do with the original post. As mentioned infinite times already, if you don't like this exploit you've found then don't use it, there are plenty of other types of fees and clauses.

[Pricey85]

You probably shouldn't try to hide your inability to debate by referring to the fact that other people say the same things you do. Being the majority doesn't make you right.

I'm not trying to glaze over anything, friend. I'm using your assertion that the international loophole is cheating as an argumentative device to get you to agree that there are other aspects of the game that could and should be called cheating as well.

Are you actually doubting me when I say that it's possible to get 7 star coaching in weak/poor clubs ? Are you not prepared to take my word for it ? If not, I'll be sure to drum up a screen shot as soon as possible.

Claim :

1) If taking advantage of poor AI (meaning poor programming) is cheating then the international loophole is cheating.

2) If taking advantage of poor AI (meaning poor programming) is cheating then getting 7 star coaching when your opponents can't is cheating.

3) If taking advantage of poor AI (meaning poor programming) is cheating then discovering wonderkids (or close to it) and buying them for your low level club when your opponents can't is cheating.

Example : Club A and B are low level rivals. You take over club A. You get 7 star coaching and buy 10 big young talents. Club A gets promoted and leaves Club B in the dust. Why ? Because you're smarter than the stupid AI.

Example : Club A and B are low level rivals. You take over club A. You sell a crap player for 40M using the international loophole, buy great players and get promoted leaving club B in the dust. Why ? Because you're smarter than the stupid AI.

Is it cheating to be smarter than the AI ?

My point is : You can't have it both ways. Either both examples are cheating or neither is.

You disagree ? I'm perfectly open to the possibility that I'm wrong. You just need to be able to argue why before you can convince me.

Poor programming is completely irrelevant to this argument, the main issue here is whether the loophole in the game which you are exploiting is intentional or unintentional, given that it's being called a loophole i would suggest it is the former.

Examples 2 and 3 would seem to be intentional as SI have yet to state otherwise, therefore the player can do these things without it being cheating as it is an intentional part of the game.

Example 1 is a bug within the game, it is unintentional. As this aspect of the game is only there because a mistake was made and the creators of the game have stated that they would fix it if they had the time then making use of this loophole is obviously cheating. It's manipulation of the game in a way that goes against the original intentions of the designers in order to benefit yourself.

It really is as clear cut as that, i can't see why this point is being debated at all. That being said i make no judgements about how you play your game, i myself have used this loophole on FM08, i was cheating and i didn't really enjoy the game after that as it was too easy but if others find enjoyment from it then they should do what makes the game more fun for them.

[Elrithral]

Is there a reason why people are debating whether or not exploiting the game is cheating? Of course it's cheating, but who cares and why anyone would take an interest in how other people play their game, is beyond me.