[FM24] Arsenal recreation

[CKBrahMa]

ARSENAL RECREATION - The rise of Arteta's Arsenal

Introduction

As an inspiration of Charles Watts’ book, please find bellow my recreation of Arteta’s Arsenal.

You won’t only find a tactic that works great in addition to recreate Arteta’s way of playing.

I’m going to try to give you some general rules on the whole philosophy to build the club, not only on one season, but in the long run.

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TL;DR : it is my understanding of Arsenal tactic, with my FM knowledge. I'm happy to discuss about it, but not to be freely trashed

 

First, let's adress the elephant in the room : we - FM enjoyer - can't perfectly replicate a team playstyle - even with the new roles - for several reasons :

1. IRL football is way more fluid than FM Football. For instance, if you start as a defensive "4-3-3", you may have trained a whole week to defend on a 4-2-3-1 when your opponent is playing out of defense, and 4-4-2 when they're trying long ball. As any modification during a game is reactive (meaning, we can't adjust the tactic right away, but only after a deadball), we can't have this level of micro management). And, it's not counting several micro-managements things (weather, field, stadium, etc.) ;

2. We are not REAL managers (yes, I know, it hurts). Meaning, we do not master 99% of their knowledge, especially talking about great managers ;

3. As players, the best we can do is translating real life football into FM match engine.

 

Then, I insist on the "my recreation" because it is my observations of the last games of Arsenal, of the analysis I read about my team.

If you disagree, you disagree and it's fine. You have questions about my choices, I'm happy to explain OR happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.

However, if you just want to share your tactic, not because you disagree but because "I'm better than this CKBrahma and it doesn't get neither football or FM", I'm politely asking to create another thread and not to pollute mine

 

For the ones just looking for a recreation without the borrowing explanation and storytelling, please find below :

- the tactic

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- and the results

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The principles

In a press conference while he was an Guardiola’s assistant, Arteta stated that he wanted his team to :

• produce an expressive and engaging football ;

• not be entirely focus on the opponent ;

• dictate the tempo and create chances ;

• entertain our fans.

In FM terms, we can translate these like this :

1. not going route-one or a counter-attacking playstyle : he wants a possession-based tactic ;

2. we should ask the question to our opponents, and not answer theirs : he wants a possession-based tactic that can be used over and over (which is nice for FM) ;

3. we decide if the game is played slow or quickly at the condition that we're still the ones producing the most and better chances : he wants an agressive possession-based tactic, that can be used over and over (meaning, we don't want possession for the sake of it) ;

4. we want emotions, we have to take risks to score goals : he wants an agressive possession-based tactic in order to win whatever it takes, that can be used over and over (meaning, we play to win, a draw must feel like a defeat).

Our development – using Revolution plan – will be the following :

• 1.       New Dawn, or how Arsenal is building-up and attacking

• 2.       Commitment, or how Arsenal is defending

• 3.       Respect, or how can we tweak the tactic regarding Arteta’s principle

• 4.       Trust the Process, or general rules to deal with varations of performance during a season (mid-season slump, leaking or lacking goals, etc.)

• 5.       Passion, or how to build your team in a long-term save (transfers, club DNA, young prospects, etc.).

 

Edited January 1 by CKBrahMa

[JoOSTAR]

Did you use Player instructions?

[CKBrahMa]

Il y a 3 heures, JoOSTAR a dit :

Did you use Player instructions?

Yes, the front 5 (ST, AML, AMR, MCL and MCR) have tackle harder.

Both wingers have "Roam from position" to help with the build-up.

DM has "shoot less often", but you can let it if his good at long range shooting.

LCB has "dribble more" to recreate Gabriel movement.

[Dr Naysay]

Nicely set out and I am glad to see the winger making a return on a lot of people's tactics. Became very maligned did the winger role with a misconception that they don't score goals. This is how I would set it up too albeit I have heard Odegaard is sitting deeper now and not getting as forward much anymore?

 

[CKBrahMa]

il y a 49 minutes, Dr Naysay a dit :

Nicely set out and I am glad to see the winger making a return on a lot of people's tactics. Became very maligned did the winger role with a misconception that they don't score goals. This is how I would set it up too albeit I have heard Odegaard is sitting deeper now and not getting as forward much anymore?

 

Well, let’s say that in the previous season, Xhaka was more of a B2B, so he could drop deep to help the build-up. Havertz is way more attacking-oriented : Ødegaard is doing more of the bread and butter.

I wouldn’t say that he does not get forward or sit deeper : he really position himself depending on what the game needs.

That’s why, in my opinion, RPM suits him the best. Especially, and compared to previous FM, Ødegaard received quite a boost on his long range ability.

[Dr Naysay]

34 minutes ago, CKBrahMa said:

Well, let’s say that in the previous season, Xhaka was more of a B2B, so he could drop deep to help the build-up. Havertz is way more attacking-oriented : Ødegaard is doing more of the bread and butter.

I wouldn’t say that he does not get forward or sit deeper : he really position himself depending on what the game needs.

That’s why, in my opinion, RPM suits him the best. Especially, and compared to previous FM, Ødegaard received quite a boost on his long range ability.

Aghh ok, thanks for the info.

[w_x]

Unlucky you didn't win the league, looks like you absolutely smashed it. Will be interested to try it out

[CKBrahMa]

Il y a 4 heures, w_x a dit :

Unlucky you didn't win the league, looks like you absolutely smashed it. Will be interested to try it out

Yeah, we had crucial injuries at the middle of the season and, in the final sprint for the PL title, we had 2 very bad away game (losing 1-0 to bad teams, unlucky finishes and so on)

[kalongtongan]

In-game, do you stick to this tactic or do you make a few tweaks or do you even have an alternative tactic?

[_mxrky]

very accurate in terms on in possession shape. Personally, i'd go with odegaard as an am just to replicate the 442 pressing shape we often use.

[CKBrahMa]

Le 29/12/2023 à 02:20, kalongtongan a dit :

In-game, do you stick to this tactic or do you make a few tweaks or do you even have an alternative tactic?

 

Le 31/12/2023 à 13:52, _mxrky a dit :

very accurate in terms on in possession shape. Personally, i'd go with odegaard as an am just to replicate the 442 pressing shape we often use.

I'm going to update my post with a very much more detailled post. To answer quickly :

- I did stick with this tactic for the whole season. However, at the end, I tended to tweak a bit. I'm gonna try to offer two tweak version and the scenarios for them to be used ;

- with the new ME, with the right pressing options, you can press in a 442 shape while having a 433 defensive shape. To be honest, I was quite amazed by that

[CKBrahMa]

 

New Dawn

 

 

 

Embrassing La Masia teachings and Guardiola’s experience, Arteta use positional play.

 

 

Let’s study several scenario before translating it to FM.

First and foremost, we have to take for granted that Arsenal is playing in a 433 shape :

 

When in possession, they do move in a 3-2-5 shape with a box-midfield

 The left-back do tuck inside to form a double pivot with defensive midfielder. With the addition of Rice as the number 6, we have the left-back being a more pass-oriented player while Rice can recycle and rush through the lines carrying the ball.

Leftback : IWB-support

Defensive Midfielder : DM-support. We do not take put the DM on defend duty as it will limit him on a recycle-only option.

 

Gabriel, Saliba and White form a three-at-the-back while in possession, with Saliba being on the center to counter long ball behind the defense, Gabriel having the liberty to dribble a bit more to bring the block up the pitch.

Many discussion are about the role of White : is he a third CB or a right-back (FB, or even a wing-back).

 

Let’s see some IRL footage (source : Youtube, the Holding Midfield):

 

 

 

 

So, there is 2 clear states when building from the back :

- when the goalkeeper has the ball, Arsenal has a basic back-4, with both FB going wide ;

- when any fieldplayer has the ball, White forms a back-3 with Saliba and Gabriel.

 

Some may argue that White does overlap Saka, which is not the case with an IFB.

First, looking at IRL, we have to admit that if White can overlap, it doesn’t do it on a regular basis. We can check the heat-maps of White and Tierney to see the differences from White to a “basic-wing back”. (Source : Sofascore). Both are from the last season.

White heatmap

Tierney heatmap

We can see that the heatmaps is clearly different, White being freer on his movements.

Again, if you look Arsenal games, you can see that White can also push up and play in the half-space for a pass into space.

Now, applying that on FM, we’re going to take as an example our tremendous win against Manchester City in the Carabao cup final 5-1

You can see that when we are entering in the opponent’s third, White is much more up than Saliba and Gabriel, the shape becoming a 2-3-5. In other words, even if White turns to be a third-CB, he remains way more positive than the other 2.

During goalkick, you can see that both FBs are spreading wide, while Rice and Odegaard form the double pivot.

If in this game, no action involved an overlapping from White, it does not mean that he does not do it. However, if you really want to emphasize on the overlapping, you can 1. Add the TI (caution, it may slow down the play) or 2. Change the right winger as a IW-a.

About the Xhaka/Havertz role, there is not a lot to say : if the former could bring balance and was more of a B2B, the latter is way more agressive.

Xhaka heatmap

Havertz Heatmap

Xhaka stats for 22-23

Havertz stats for current season

As you can see, Havertz is better in :

-          npXg ;

-          shots

-          tackles

-          aerials won

However, he is way behind as a creator.

In other word, Havertz is more of a goal-oriented player, much more than Xhaka (which, later, will explain the slight differences between last season’s Odegaard and current season’s Norvegian captain).

The main difference between the Swiss and the German are their tendencies to come wider :

-          Xhaka could “overlap” Martinelli, cross the ball or pass it, which helped Martinelli to run into channels ;

-          Havertz, being more goal-oriented, tends to be much more central and leaves the Brazilians on the flank.

In FM, Havertz thrives as a Mezz-a.

The heatmap suggests that he could be a CM-a with “Roam from position” PI’s. Watching Arsenal IRL makes me think that the heatmap is a bit flawed with Havertz’s time as the n°9.

But both Mezz-a or CM-a can work.

 

Having Havertz by is side, the Gunner’s captain has to bring more balanced in the build up, as we can see :

Odegaard heat map of the previous season – staying in the right half-space

 

Odegaard current season’s heatmap – coming deeper to help distributing the ball

 

Last season’s stats :

 

Current season’s stats

By droping deeper, the statistics shows that Ødegaard :

-          Is less in dangerous position to score goals (same amount of shots per 90 with worst stats) ;

-          Does much more progressive carries (as being deeper), without drooping the progressive passes ;

-          Get a little better pass completion, which can be explained by simple passes from deep before trying to break the opponent line of defense

Being deeper without droping is offensive passes, the King in the North seems to be the perfect RP-s.

 

Talking about the wingers (Martinelli, Saka, Trossard, Nelson, etc.), it is hard to illustrate their pattern without videos.

So, without video, we just have to go back to basics : stretching the opposition.

As a Guardiola’s student, Arteta likes to have his wingers hugging the touchline, even if they cut inside when they have the ball.

IRL, if they can make infuriating decision to funnel attacks into the center, they can also dribble by the byline and try to cutback the ball into the box. Meaning, they can both cut inside or dribble past their opponent.

That’s being said, both Wingers are put in W-a/s as :

-          They have the PPMs “like to cut inside with the ball”, leading to uncertainty for the opponent full backs ;

-          They can cross and dribble ;

-          As we have no FB  who’s main goal is to stretch the field, we have to put that responsibility on our Wingers

To maintain the uncertainty, both Wingers are asked to roam from position, like the other players from the “front 5”.

 

Last but not least, our Brazilian Jesus.

He likes to dribble, to pass, to help building up, to run at defense, to roam, to jump over 6ft CB, to press, etc.

He pretty much like to do everything, and what is better to do everything than a CF-s ?

 

 

 

Edited January 2 by CKBrahMa

[CKBrahMa]

Commitment

Arsenal's defense has greatly improved since last season.
In fact, in the 2022/2023 season, Arsenal conceded 1.21 xGA, whereas today this same statistic is below 1 (0.92 xGA). In other words, statistically, Arsenal concede less than one goal per game (note that the team is slightly under-performing, currently conceding 1 goal per game, partly due to D. Raya's inconsistent performances).

What is the Gunners' philosophy when it comes to defending?
Once again, Arsenal take their inspiration from Guardiola and his Manchester City.
Arsenal play with a high defensive line and extremely high pressing, with the aim of suffocating the opposing team in their own half of the pitch.

There are therefore three distinct phases in the defense of the kings of North London:
- how Arsenal counter-pressure when they lose the ball;
- how Arsenal defend as a midfield block in the face of challenging opposition;
- how Arsenal defend attacking/counter-attacking transitions.

Counterpressing

To talk about Arsenal's counterpressing, let's start from the beginning: the formation of the team in possession.

As we saw earlier, the Gunners play in a hybrid 3-2-5 / 2-3-5 formation, as illustrated below.

This possession formation helps counter-pressing, as 7 of the 10 outfield players are ready to pounce on the ball.
To add to this intensity, the "Front 5" players each have the "Tackle harder" IP.
Triggering of pressing (in IT) has only been taken up a notch. Indeed, while Arsenal is a high-pressure team, it does not dominate the statistics in this respect. The only exception is Gabriel Jesus, whose defensive statistics are well above average, which is particularly surprising coming from a 9 in a dominant team.

NB : the "Close Down more" can be added to G. Jesus PIs. To be honest, I did not use it as it looked overkill for me. Furthermore, . G. Jesus still has attributes to press a lot more than usual and will still press a lot without this PI.

I let you compare with Haaland first and Nunez second

Another example that G. Jesus press way more than the other :

As it is, the TI "Prevent short GK distribution" has to be ticked.

 

Mid-block

If Arsenal don't get the ball back immediately, the 3-2-5 will start to move into a 4-4-2, as illustrated below.

In previous versions of Football Manager, tactics and defensive formations were static: if we wanted our team to defend in a 4-4-2 formation, it was necessary to create a 4-4-2 tactic (or an asymmetrical 4-4-1-1).

Now, updating the game engine has led not only to positional play in possession, but also without the ball!
Consequently, even with a 4-3-3 formation, if the right pressing parameters and situation present themselves, it's possible to be in 4-4-2 pressing, 4-3-3 defending and 3-2-5 attacking. Let's take a look at some more images from our 5-1 victory over City in the Carabao Cup.

Immediately after his engagement, City decided to wait while he set up his block. We can see Stones going up alongside Rodri, and Walker positioning himself as the third CB.
Immediately, my team identifies a pressing scenario: Ødegaard climbs up to the level of that crazy Gabriel Jesus, while Rice forms a double pivot with Havertz.

 

Another match, in a 3-1 victory over Liverpool.
This time, we're not in a situation of commitment, but of open play.

Ødegaard comes near Nketiah, forming once again our pressing 4-4-2

Defendind transition

Playing a high-line (or even a very high-line) rymes with direct counter-attack. And Arteta's team is very well aware of that.

Fully conscious that only Saliba can regulary compete with Premier League strickers' speed, they choose to block the middle of the pitch and to let the wider area exposed, as you can see in this footage of Tifo IRL

This is what helped Arsenal to not be leaking in goals. And, that is also why Arsenal struggle at the end of last season, with Saliba's injury.

TI : Trap outside, drop off more

Saliba : BPD-C

Edited January 3 by CKBrahMa

[CKBrahMa]

Respect

Contrary to the two previous chapters, all the following chapters (Respect, Trust the process and Passion) were not tested during the played season. For instance :

- all the tweaking presented in the current chapter are only based on IRL Arsenal. I have no idea if it really works in FM 24 ;

- Once again, regardind "Passion" and creating a long-term save, I will update this thread with my own transfers (and mistakes).

 

There are 2 reasons for tweaks :

- the first reason depends on the squad's injuries. Arteta had to juggle with a lot of injuries, and sometimes leading to different ways of building up. Keeping the same principles, these tweakings will be focused on role and duty switches ;

- the second one depends on the game's scenario. Even if Arsenal does not adapt a lot on the opponent, they can make adjustment regarding various situations (by playing more direct and on counter, to overload the opponent third or by playing a more discipline mid-block)

Injuries

When beginning with Arsenal, there is a lack of depth in the following areas :

- Fullbacks. With Timber LCA, you only have White, Zinchenko and Tomi for fullbacks (and, you can use Cedric and Kiwior, but they're not at the level required) ;

- Right CB. If Saliba is injured, you have to put White on his role, which means that Tomi has to be played as a right FB.

In other words, if Saliba or a FB is seriously injured or suspended, you're in serious trouble. Of course, you can always try things to make this work (for instance, Rice as a CB, but you now lack depth in the DM slot with Partey's injuries).

All the front 5 is pretty packed, especially for the wingers.

As a consequence, we will focus with the sole scenarios of injuries in the back-4.

1. Both White and Tomi are unavailable. You’re lacking of right FB

Of course, you could have faith on Cedric. To be honest, he did well as an IFB, but only against way weaker teams.

If you trust him, I do think you can make the following changes :

- RFB becoming a WB-s or CWB-s, the AM R becoming an IW-a or an IF-a, the DM becoming an HB (the MC R can be changed to a DLP-s if the RPM doesn’t drop enough to make a double pivot with Zinchenko. 
In this case, you keep your 3-2 defensive build up.

 

2. Both Zinchenko and White are unavailable 

You have Tomi to play either as the left or right FB.

If you play him on the left, you can make it work with the n°1 tweak.

If you play him on the right, you lack a player for the double pivot. So :

- play Saka as a CWB-a on the left, switch the MC’s so the Mezz-a is on the right, put the RPM as a DLP-s if the double pivot struggle, switch the AM L to an IF-s or a IW-s, and the AM R to a W-s.

 

3. If Saliba and Tomi are unavailable (or any case playing White in Saliba’s spot)

You can use tweak n°1, or just play Kiwior as the IFB.

4. If all FB are unavailable

Play Rice and Partey both as IWB-s (switching the R FB), and Jorginho as an HB.

Why Jorginho as an HB instead of Rice ? Because I have more faith in him to recycle the ball rather than to cover a flank, as easy as it is.

Of course, there are other scenarios. But you get the idea : finding solutions to keep the 3-2-5.

Plan A, Abis, Ater

Despite being absolute rivals, Spurs and Arsenal have a common share : they don't really have a plan B.

As Postecoglou said :

For us, let's say "I don't have a plan B, only plan Arteta (or Arsenal if you're not a fan of the Spaniard)".

As I said before : i only did very few tweaks depending of the game : most of the time, I sticked with the same tactic without changing anything (which may have cost us at least a draw, therefore the PL title).

Before adressing them, a quick reminder about mentality. As Cleon said in the FM Playbook :

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In simple terms, the mentality is the base attacking intent of the team. This may be described as a measure of risk-taking. More positive mentalities instruct the team to take more risks, and more defensive ones instruct the team to take fewer risks. Essentially it's a risk modifier that affects a number of other teams and player instructions like width, passing directness, tempo, line of engagement and defensive line. The higher your mentality the more risk your players are willing to take in these specific areas of the game.

 

The team mentality also impacts individual player mentality, you can see the change this has on the player and his role by going to the player on the tactic screen, clicking the position, and then clicking his player instructions. You’ll notice when you change team mentality his own mentality is adjusted to reflect the change.

We will focus on three mentalities for our tweaks :

- Balanced

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- Positive

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- Attacking

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After the first season, I find 3 situations where tweaks can be made :

- Despite being the better team, the opponent still play a high-line (ex : Chelsea away, Newcastle, Aston Villa). The idea is pretty much simple ; punishing the audacity of your opponent using a high-line. In my opinion taking also more risk is essential to be sure to punish way harder.

- The exact opposite scenario : the opponent knows that they're way weaker and is parking the bus, excpecting to got you on the counter. You have to be patient and over load the opponent third (for instance, doing a 2-2-6, maybe changing the AM R to an inverted role).

- Now, you're the weaker team. As does Arsenal IRL, you have to be more disciplined with a mid block, and less risk. To not be sterile, you go with counter ticked

Edited January 6 by CKBrahMa

[CKBrahMa]

Trust the Process

"Journalist : How big is the job for you, at Arsenal ?

Arteta : You still have a massive gap to fill in, we have to improve in many départment a lot, we have to respect the process"

This was an interview gave by Arsenal's coach in 2020 after a 2-1 win against Sheffield United.

Respect the process, trust the process, believe in the process... This is the main catchphrase of Arteta.

Nominated as the manager in 2019, the "Boss" lived very hard time before challenging for the PL title.

 

I believed that a lot of FM players don't have faith in their idea. The minute a tactic stop working or a stricker stop scoring, they change everything in a rush.

If you want to replicate Arsenal, you also to trust the process. Here are some ways to apply to FM

I lose against the last team on the table while I'm the current leader, I dominated xG and possession why did I lose ? Well, losing is a part of life (and not only football). Sometimes, you're doing everything right, the odds are massively on your side. Yet, you lose. And that's suck. A lot.

I am not telling you to not savescum : it's a single player game and you enjoy it the way you want. Personnaly, I don't savescum because it feels like cheating and I don't enjoy it. But if you do savescum, don't try to revolutionize the entire tactic, try few tweaks and understand why it worked. I would strongly suggest to stick with your Plan A, and make it a Plan Abis

 

I keep loosing games and games and I might lose the title ! Well, Rome wasn't build in one day. As said before, loosing is a part of the process.

I lost the PL title by one single draw. I could have savescum to have, season 1, the best season ever.

But hey, did Arsenal's squad is build to complete a treble currently ? The honnest answer is no. I was very lucky with my UCL draws (PSV, Marseille, A. Madrid and Leipzig). I avoided teams like Inter, PSG, Real Madrid, AC Milan and City.

In the FA Cup, the only big team I faced was Chelsea.

In the Carabao, I did faced Liverpool, Man United and Man City. But, once again, these teams were playing their B team while I was playing my A team.

I got lucky.

If you're loosing again and again, maybe try few tweaks, benched players that perform poorly.

 

My stricker isn't scoring for 5 games in a row. Benched him for few games, then give him a praise and another chance. He might score again.

Maybe the stricker was overperforming ? Maybe is not a great stricker for the PL ?

Edited January 6 by CKBrahMa

[CKBrahMa]

Passion

Last but not least chapter, how to build a long-term save with Arsenal.

We will adress :

- The Club DNA ;

- The transfers ;

- The academy

Arteta's DNA : Respect, Commitment and Passion

Not really football terms, right ? But they're very important for Arteta. We can translate it like this :

• Respect, towards your teammates and you opponent. When looking at Arsenal squad, few players have a competitive streak (G. Jesus, Zinchenko, Rice). You also want players with great personnalities (you only have to players with balanced personnality) ;
• Commitment, going the extramile for your team, for the people, being involved for the team and not for yourself. Arsenal are the best when it comes to Teamwork, very top for Workrate, Concentration, Composure ;
• Passion, loving Football and the beauty of it : (Best at Technique, top passing, First touch, Dribbling, Inspiration and Vison)

In a more FM way, we can add : Anticipation, Off the ball, Agility, Balance, Strengh, Accelaration and Pace

 

Transfers

According to Revolution, Arsenal has a young-focus transfer policy :

"White, who was at Brighton, was identified as the centerback that Arsenal wanted. At 23, he fitted the age profile of the type of player Arsenal were now targetting under Arteta and Edu, and he also had versatility. Technically he was very strong and he'd shown during a loan spell under Marcelo Bielsa at Leeds that he could play high-intensity football under a demanding coach"

"'When the player is 26-plus, with a big salary and he's not performing, he's killing you' Edu had explained."

The policy is very straight forward :

- For buyings, we're looking at youngsters that showed great qualities and that can perform high-intensity football. Being versatile is a plus ;

- For sellings, if you're over 26's, having one of the biggest salaries and you're not performing, you have to get out.

Before showing my first buyings during the summer transfer window, I am playing with masked attribute (I have to scout the players to see their attributes) and with my scouting team. I'm not searching manually the best wonderkids.

For the buyings :

• We bought D. Raya as he did a very good season and took the place of Ramsdale when the latter was underperfoming ;
• Ousmane Diomande ;
• 
• Mathys Tel
• 

 

• K. Thuram

For the sellings :

• Eddie Nketiah

Thomas Partey

Jorginho

Arteta's DNA : Respect, Commitment and Passion

Some youngsters from Hale End

Charlie Patino

Myles Lewis-Skelly

There are other, but these are the ones I would recommend !

Here is the end of this recreation thread. I hope you enjoyed reading it, and I'm very keen toanswer all your questions !

Take care !

Edited January 6 by CKBrahMa

[CKBrahMa]

Good evening, everyone !

As you can see, I'm writting a fully-written thread on the Arsenal recreation, based on IRL footage, Charles Watts' book and my FM knwoledge.

It may take a while, sorry of you can't read it fully written straight away.

Futhermore, English isn't my native language : even though I can read it easily, I may struggle with the explanation or even with grammar. Feel free to (gently) point that out

I hope you will like the "finished" product and enjoy the on-going reading for the first ones to see it !

And, of course, happy New Year !

[halfspace3000]

4 minutes ago, CKBrahMa said:

Good evening, everyone !

As you can see, I'm writting a fully-written thread on the Arsenal recreation, based on IRL footage, Charles Watts' book and my FM knwoledge.

It may take a while, sorry of you can't read it fully written straight away.

Futhermore, English isn't my native language : even though I can read it easily, I may struggle with the explanation or even with grammar. Feel free to (gently) point that out

I hope you will like the "finished" product and enjoy the on-going reading for the first ones to see it !

And, of course, happy New Year !

Amazing thread , excited to see the rest, keep it up!!

[Ron_Burgundy]

I've not actually taken the plunge with this year's FM so far but it's due to arrive this weekend and trying to get Arsenal's system clicking is my main aim

So, this is fantastic and I'm really looking forward to reading more of this - thank you.

Edited January 2 by Ron_Burgundy

[CKBrahMa]

First part finished (even though I might add IRL footage latter). Next step : Commitment !

[Mutumba]

Really well put togheter post! Brilliant.

 

Two things that makes me a bit sceptical of your tactic:

1. Gabriel has scored 16 goals. More than 3 times the amout of Saliba, and more than Martinelli. Hes your fourth best goalscorer. This is hinting of a really strong - perhaps too strong- set piece routine. 

2. +94 GD are insane numbers. How many of your goals are scored via corners?

[Ron_Burgundy]

Just out of interest...would be interested to see average possessions stats. I'm always chasing mega possession and completed passes...which I know you might not be.

[CKBrahMa]

Il y a 4 heures, Mutumba a dit :

Really well put togheter post! Brilliant.

 

Two things that makes me a bit sceptical of your tactic:

1. Gabriel has scored 16 goals. More than 3 times the amout of Saliba, and more than Martinelli. Hes your fourth best goalscorer. This is hinting of a really strong - perhaps too strong- set piece routine. 

2. +94 GD are insane numbers. How many of your goals are scored via corners?

We do aim the balls on Gabriel, and not Saliba. Saliba's goal are when Gabriel wasn't playing. He's my fifth goal scorer.

We have scored 26 goals from corner, out of 116 goals scorer, which is near 22% of our goal, for an IRL average of 14%. If you're only average, let's say minus 10 goals, so 16 goals. Meaning that we will still be the first attack of the PL by 12 goals :

We have a strong defense, as we conceeded 10 less goals than the 2nd best defense in the PL

The thing is, we could reduce our GD by twenty, we'll still be the best team in the PL.

I do agree that my set-piece routine is way too good, however, cheking out of curiosity the season's results, we just won one game in the PL thanks to a corner by Gabriel. All other wins with only +1 goal wasn't from corner. I can screen my whole schedule if you want haha.

Il y a 4 heures, Ron_Burgundy a dit :

Just out of interest...would be interested to see average possessions stats. I'm always chasing mega possession and completed passes...which I know you might not be.

Here you go my good Sir :

Just so you know, I think I read something in the forum that FM doesn't count possession as we do IRL. Not sure, tho

[Mutumba]

I ran some holiday tests using your tactic. Now, I know the flaws of such method but Id figure with such a superior tactic it should still show some signs of its greatness.

 

Arsenal

Premier League

10GP 5W 3D 2L 23GS 8CO - 5th

 

Chances created 43 - (6th best)

Possession 54% (8th)

XG 16.25 (10th)

XG against 8.86 (18th)

Final Third passes per game 89 (6th)

 

Champions league

3GP 1W 1D 1L - 2nd (group stage)

 

 

Rennes

Ligue 1

10GP 5w 2D 3L 20GS 14C (5th)

Possession 58% (3rd)

XG 14.96 (5th)

XG against 15.13 (5th!)

Chanes created 40 (4th)

 

Europa League

3GP 1W 1D 1L 6GS 7CO (3rd)

 

RB Leipzig

Bundesliga

9GP 3W 5D 1L 13GS 8CO (6th)

Possessiob 56% (7th)

XG 14.94 (3rd)

XG against 8.14 (14th)

Chances created 35 (3rd)

 

Champions league

3GP 0W 0D 03L 2GS 6CO (4th)

 

Napoli

Serie A

10GP 7W 2D 1L 17GS 8CO (2nd)

Possession 56% (6th)

XG 14.63  (7th)

XG against 9.43 (17th)

Chances created 36 (7th)

 

Champions League

3GP 2W 1D 0L 5GS 3CO (1st)

 

Barcelona 

La Liga

11GP 6W 2D 3L 20GS 11CO (5th)

Possession 59% (4th)

XG 16.43 (8th)

XG against 10.42 (19th)

Chances created 38 (6th)

 

Champions League

3GP 1W 0D 2L 3GS 7CO (4th)

 

Not a bad tactic, but I was expecting a lot more considering the amount of goals youve scored. 

[CKBrahMa]

Il y a 7 heures, Mutumba a dit :

I ran some holiday tests using your tactic. Now, I know the flaws of such method but Id figure with such a superior tactic it should still show some signs of its greatness.

 

Arsenal

Premier League

10GP 5W 3D 2L 23GS 8CO - 5th

 

Chances created 43 - (6th best)

Possession 54% (8th)

XG 16.25 (10th)

XG against 8.86 (18th)

Final Third passes per game 89 (6th)

 

Champions league

3GP 1W 1D 1L - 2nd (group stage)

 

 

Rennes

Ligue 1

10GP 5w 2D 3L 20GS 14C (5th)

Possession 58% (3rd)

XG 14.96 (5th)

XG against 15.13 (5th!)

Chanes created 40 (4th)

 

Europa League

3GP 1W 1D 1L 6GS 7CO (3rd)

 

RB Leipzig

Bundesliga

9GP 3W 5D 1L 13GS 8CO (6th)

Possessiob 56% (7th)

XG 14.94 (3rd)

XG against 8.14 (14th)

Chances created 35 (3rd)

 

Champions league

3GP 0W 0D 03L 2GS 6CO (4th)

 

Napoli

Serie A

10GP 7W 2D 1L 17GS 8CO (2nd)

Possession 56% (6th)

XG 14.63  (7th)

XG against 9.43 (17th)

Chances created 36 (7th)

 

Champions League

3GP 2W 1D 0L 5GS 3CO (1st)

 

Barcelona 

La Liga

11GP 6W 2D 3L 20GS 11CO (5th)

Possession 59% (4th)

XG 16.43 (8th)

XG against 10.42 (19th)

Chances created 38 (6th)

 

Champions League

3GP 1W 0D 2L 3GS 7CO (4th)

 

Not a bad tactic, but I was expecting a lot more considering the amount of goals youve scored. 

Can you tell us if most of the draws and defeat were away game or home game ? If away games, we have to tweak them a bit (future part of the thread).

And also, do you know if the IA played your wingers on their opposite foot ? For example, I know that my Ass.man will play Saka on the left because I have traditional wingers and not IW. Or, if that’s the case, it makes the tactic way more predictable.

Finally, did you put the « Tackle Harder » PI on the front 5 ?

But, as you said, the results you get are very far from what I got. 

Edited January 4 by CKBrahMa
Tackle Harder

[Mutumba]

I just want to state that the results are still good. It seems to be a quite effective tactic as the XG and created chances are fairly low but you still score a lot, which is shown by the overperformance XG of 6.75 (2nd highest in the league). 23 goals scored and 8 conceded is very good and only City has a better GD

 

The starting XI for Arsenal is the exact same as yours, which I made sure when switching to holiday. Of course, there will always be things like player fatigue, injuries, suspensions and so on that the AI handles which is always going to be less than desirable. However, looking at the players in the starting xi 8 players has played maximum amount of games (15). Raya has played 14, Ödegaard 13 and White 11

The draws for Arsenal was actually Liverpool Away (1-1) and City at home (2-2), which is generally very good. The odd one out was Luton at home (0-0). With holiday testing there will always be some weird results and you cant always expect the tactic to play out as it would if you'd be using it manually.

Losses were both away (2-3 Brentford and 1-0 Man utd)

Edited January 4 by Mutumba

[CKBrahMa]

Il y a 1 heure, Mutumba a dit :

I just want to state that the results are still good. It seems to be a quite effective tactic as the XG and created chances are fairly low but you still score a lot, which is shown by the overperformance XG of 6.75 (2nd highest in the league). 23 goals scored and 8 conceded is very good and only City has a better GD

 

The starting XI for Arsenal is the exact same as yours, which I made sure when switching to holiday. Of course, there will always be things like player fatigue, injuries, suspensions and so on that the AI handles which is always going to be less than desirable. However, looking at the players in the starting xi 8 players has played maximum amount of games (15). Raya has played 14, Ödegaard 13 and White 11

The draws for Arsenal was actually Liverpool Away (1-1) and City at home (2-2), which is generally very good. The odd one out was Luton at home (0-0). With holiday testing there will always be some weird results and you cant always expect the tactic to play out as it would if you'd be using it manually.

Losses were both away (2-3 Brentford and 1-0 Man utd)

Ok for the Starting Eleven, but did you check if Saka played on the right and Martinelli on the left ? If you only ticked « use the same tactic », the AI may have put them on their good foot, and maybe Ødegaard has the Mezz-a and not the RMP.

Drawing Liverpool away is a great result (I did loose to Anfield).

Don’t only focus on the results : did we have a great game against Lutton ? Sometimes, you should have win, but we didn’t : that’s what we must focus on.

For away games and games against weaker side/parking the bus, I will explain how to tweak.

TL;DR : when away, the other team tends to play way more up, meaning you can turn up the risk to punish them in counter.

Against very strong side, we might turn down the risk factor.

Thanks for trying my tactic on your save btw !

[CKBrahMa]

Good evening ! The recreation thread is finally all out ! I hope you will like it

[Lasson]

Phenomenal work.

[papa_wengz]

Your post taught me more about tactics in FM than anything else I have seen haha THANK YOU.

 

I've been using this in my new Arsenal save and won the PL & FA Cup double in the first season, beating Liverpool to the title with 97 points to their 89 with a 75GD, and winning 4-1 against Man Utd in the FA cup final.

 

Unfortunately I was humbled by RB Leipzig in the CL quarter finals, their 4-2-2-2 narrow tactic completely dominated me, even at home. I tried to make my team wider and play more through the flanks to go around their 6 central players but it wasn't enough.

 

Overall, I made some minor tweaks, like switching the LW and RW to an IF-s and IW-a. I didn't like Martinelli constantly running down the line even with his traits, I feel like switching him to an IF-s (with the stay wider PI) allowed him to be more involved in goal-scoring and also allowed the Mez-a to overlap him more and create. Same thing with Saka, even though he is pretty good with his right and has decent crossing, he felt way too isolated as a W-a so giving him a more inverted role (with stay wider) made him more dangerous, especially if you change the RB to a fullback on support against weaker teams The fb-s on the right really helped support Saka, he remained in the midfield for the most part, creating a 2-3-5 shape but would sometimes overlap and go for crosses when the opportunity was there. Against stronger teams I left him as an IFB.

 

The main problems I have is even though I changed the LW to an IF-s, ideally I would want Martinelli to be an IF-a, since he has good finishing and isn't super creative, he can overlap the CF-s and take shots. However I haven't been able to make the system work. I tried a CWB-s on the left, but even with an RPM or DLP on the left, the double pivot stopped existing and we were nowhere near as balanced. I will try and create a 4231 system with the two DMs as a double pivot maybe. 

Also Odegaard in the RPM role on the right isn't doing it for me at all, averaged a 6.77 rating. Had a lot more luck with Smith-Rowe in this role, perhaps because he is right footed as opposed to left for Odergaard.

Any advice on what I could do to get more out of Martinelli and Odegaard? And again thank you!!!

 

 

 

 

Edited January 16 by papa_wengz

[CKBrahMa]

Le 16/01/2024 à 17:43, papa_wengz a dit :

Your post taught me more about tactics in FM than anything else I have seen haha THANK YOU.

 

I've been using this in my new Arsenal save and won the PL & FA Cup double in the first season, beating Liverpool to the title with 97 points to their 89 with a 75GD, and winning 4-1 against Man Utd in the FA cup final.

 

Unfortunately I was humbled by RB Leipzig in the CL quarter finals, their 4-2-2-2 narrow tactic completely dominated me, even at home. I tried to make my team wider and play more through the flanks to go around their 6 central players but it wasn't enough.

 

Overall, I made some minor tweaks, like switching the LW and RW to an IF-s and IW-a. I didn't like Martinelli constantly running down the line even with his traits, I feel like switching him to an IF-s (with the stay wider PI) allowed him to be more involved in goal-scoring and also allowed the Mez-a to overlap him more and create. Same thing with Saka, even though he is pretty good with his right and has decent crossing, he felt way too isolated as a W-a so giving him a more inverted role (with stay wider) made him more dangerous, especially if you change the RB to a fullback on support against weaker teams The fb-s on the right really helped support Saka, he remained in the midfield for the most part, creating a 2-3-5 shape but would sometimes overlap and go for crosses when the opportunity was there. Against stronger teams I left him as an IFB.

 

The main problems I have is even though I changed the LW to an IF-s, ideally I would want Martinelli to be an IF-a, since he has good finishing and isn't super creative, he can overlap the CF-s and take shots. However I haven't been able to make the system work. I tried a CWB-s on the left, but even with an RPM or DLP on the left, the double pivot stopped existing and we were nowhere near as balanced. I will try and create a 4231 system with the two DMs as a double pivot maybe. 

Also Odegaard in the RPM role on the right isn't doing it for me at all, averaged a 6.77 rating. Had a lot more luck with Smith-Rowe in this role, perhaps because he is right footed as opposed to left for Odergaard.

Any advice on what I could do to get more out of Martinelli and Odegaard? And again thank you!!!

 

 

 

 

Thanks a lot.

 

I guess having Martinelli as an IF-a with a Mezz-a can work. I would however put Martinelli with a stay narrow to forcce your Mezz to overlap him (or to leave it unitck, but do not put stay wider)